Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 10/7/2007 10:57:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 11:03:40 AM EST by Paveway_]
Short of Katrina 2 or the New Madrid fault causing a 9.0 quake, would not concealble body armor be more useful?

Of course it offers less coverage and generally less protection even with plate inserts (since thsoe inserts are generally smaller) but you can wear every day sheeple clothing.

IBA style armor with all the dood-dads like shoulder protectors etc have their place in the Red Dawn, Z-Day world, but it is impossible to look low key when kitted out.

Thoughts.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:12:48 AM EST
That is a good question, having cold weather would allow you to have the best of both worlds with a coat/jacket to cover the bulkier armor.

Even a photographer's vest could help conceal the external armor in warmer weather.

But, I think that concealable soft armor combined with an external plate carrier with large plates would be allow a modular approach.

Just like a concealed handgun is going to be more useful in most situations.

-Nathan
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:14:09 AM EST
Buy both, as they both serve a different purpose which you have already stated.

Walking around in your CIRAS/IBA in front of a checkpoint manned by Nat'l Guard MPs wouldn't be the most intelligent thing to do.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:17:12 AM EST
My thoughts? OK.

Why does everyone think once/if the SHTF that everyone is going to magically be sporting & needing body armor?

Flame me all you want, but I think it is silly to think that.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:47:54 AM EST
SHTF I'm doing my darndest to be invisible. I subscribe to the whole 'out of sight out of mind' train of thought. If I needed to wear body armor, well then I'd just be wearing my interceptor which isn't concealable at all. I wouldn't be alone, if I were walking around wearing body armor my neighborhood would be with me.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:07:31 PM EST
It depends on the neighborhood + extent of disaster + extent of disappearance of all 'authorities and rise of 'strange men' patrolling the hood....

Most of us probably have army surplus BDUs, LBVs, ARs etc. etc to give off the "look" of being a serious hombre not to be trifled with.

AND MAYBE this might work for those inured to avoiding "the man". But a week more without police, NG etc. I'd not be standing around looking the part. I'd be hunkered down behind camo netting watching (If I'm not out chopping wood and hauling water)
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:08:41 PM EST
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:14:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.
Guess you've never been shot then.........
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:16:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By hk45shooter:
My thoughts? OK.

Why does everyone think once/if the SHTF that everyone is going to magically be sporting & needing body armor?

Flame me all you want, but I think it is silly to think that.



I couldn't agree more.

For what that stuff costs, you can buy alot of food.

Then again, if you buy that body armor, and have nothing to eat, you will be a skinnier target as each day goes by.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:30:25 PM EST
For 99% of SHTF situations you will face, a decent chest rig and concealable armor will probably be overkill.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:35:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.
Guess you've never been shot then.........


I think you won the argument there.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:57:07 PM EST
I guess you would have to guestimate what kind of threats you'd be going up against.

If a "Red Dawn" scenario was happening, then I'm sure you'd love some good plate armor.

If another "Katrina/LA riots" happened, then I'm sure you'd be fine with some good concealable "pistol proof" soft armor.

Personally, my money'd be going on the latter. If, god forbid, some aweful situation presented itself in the form of civil unrest, I would image that the people shooting at me would be thugs & such. I would imagine that most would have pistols.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:24:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 3:30:34 PM EST by Mark_J]

Originally Posted By supanate7:
...I think that concealable soft armor combined with an external plate carrier with large plates would allow a modular approach.

-Nathan


I think this is the best way to go for most civilians who wish to have a lot of armor available. I am issued BALCS armor by my reserve unit. My first trip to Iraq, I wore the soft armor panels in a Second Chance (I think) carrier that was remarkably similar to the concealable carrier I use for my civilian police job. It should be noted that the BALCS are probably too thick for most to conceal, but thinner stuff is available. I wore this carrier over my uniform, and a plate carrier over that.

My second trip, I wore BALCS armor in a CIRAS. I really like the CIRAS, but as someone pointed out, you will not conceal it.

As someone (Doctors308 maybe) pointed out, most of the time armor is a waste of effort and money. It has done nothing for me except make me hot and uncomfortable. I do however, know both PD and .mil who were saved from injury or death, or had their injuries lessened by armor.

I consider my armor, like my carry weapons, to be life suporting pieces of equipment.


edited for spelling and because I forgot to put some stuff in.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:08:27 PM EST
You definitely need several level IIa trauma plates duct taped to your front and back. Anything less and you might as well just accept the fact that by the end of the first day in the PAW that you'll end up with a .338 lapua to the chest.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:12:03 PM EST
I have both. I wear concealable even for shit like going to the range. It's way lighter, easier to run and move around with.
I would wear the external if I was in the truck or at home and things were getting very ugly, like rioting/looting with multiple shots fired.
I didn't think the concealable was all that great when I got it but now I'm pretty happy I picked it up and I'd probably get more use out of it in a situation.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:46:53 PM EST
I think both will be useful. I chose to put my SHTF body armor money into a level IIIA that completely covers my upper body from all angles. If I have to out with body armor on for whatever reason in a SHTF situation, I want the best protection without too much weight, I don't care if someone can see I am wearing body armor. With the M4, BDU's Helmet, and other paraphernalia I doubt most people will want to mess with me. If they do, one quick burst of full-auto fire in their direction will likely change their minds.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:11:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 6:56:10 PM EST by Achilles1]
I look at it as better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
If you can afford to buy some good body armor to keep around just in case things do get really nasty, than do it.
I also live by a mindset from experience that the less people know the better. Getting some comfortable, concealable body armor would be and will be my first choice. There's always the possibility of someone trying to take what's yours, looking to catch you off guard and stab you too. That concealable body armor could save your life from more than just guns if things do get real bad and nothings impossible.
If you can also add plates to it besides than all the better.

As for the guys saying what do you need that for? They sound just like the Fudd's at the range looking over at someone with an AR or other media driven image of a evil magazine fed rifle and going "what do you need that for?. Pay them no mind at all and do what you feel is best for you.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:39:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.



Thats possibly one of the oddest responses Ive ever seen on this board.


God be with you brother.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:49:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.



Thats possibly one of the oddest responses Ive ever seen on this board.


God be with you brother.


No kidding. Something that might stop bullets from killing you isn't useful?
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 6:11:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReCon_IR:
I think both will be useful. I chose to put my SHTF body armor money into a level IIIA that completely covers my upper body from all angles. If I have to out with body armor on for whatever reason in a SHTF situation, I want the best protection without too much weight, I don't care if someone can see I am wearing body armor. With the M4, BDU's Helmet, and other paraphernalia I doubt most people will want to mess with me. If they do, one quick burst of full-auto fire in their direction will likely change their minds.


Is that you Gunkid?
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 8:08:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReCon_IR:
I think both will be useful. I chose to put my SHTF body armor money into a level IIIA that completely covers my upper body from all angles. If I have to out with body armor on for whatever reason in a SHTF situation, I want the best protection without too much weight, I don't care if someone can see I am wearing body armor. With the M4, BDU's Helmet, and other paraphernalia I doubt most people will want to mess with me. If they do, one quick burst of full-auto fire in their direction will likely change their minds.
Until some old dude with an M-1 garand and some black tips gets pissed at you, then your done..
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 8:22:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReCon_IR:
I think both will be useful. I chose to put my SHTF body armor money into a level IIIA that completely covers my upper body from all angles. If I have to out with body armor on for whatever reason in a SHTF situation, I want the best protection without too much weight, I don't care if someone can see I am wearing body armor. With the M4, BDU's Helmet, and other paraphernalia I doubt most people will want to mess with me. If they do, one quick burst of full-auto fire in their direction will likely change their minds.


You won't see me the sniper 600 yds out with a GAP rifle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 8:27:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By ReCon_IR:
I think both will be useful. I chose to put my SHTF body armor money into a level IIIA that completely covers my upper body from all angles. If I have to out with body armor on for whatever reason in a SHTF situation, I want the best protection without too much weight, I don't care if someone can see I am wearing body armor. With the M4, BDU's Helmet, and other paraphernalia I doubt most people will want to mess with me. If they do, one quick burst of full-auto fire in their direction will likely change their minds.
Until some old dude with an M-1 garand and some black tips gets pissed at you, then your done..


Actually he better be looking for cover regardless, but if there's a rifle involved the IIIA isn't going to help at all. It's certainly better than nothing though.

Box of truth IIIA testing

Wiki vest info
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 1:34:43 AM EST
If I see your vest I'll be shooting head and legs, if I don't see your vest I'll shoot centre of mass and you may live. h
Many things take priority over a vest but buy what you can afford; a cheap vest is better than no vest but buy new if you can.

"Why people question common sence, I'll never understand"
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 1:46:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk45shooter:
My thoughts? OK.

Why does everyone think once/if the SHTF that everyone is going to magically be sporting & needing body armor?

Flame me all you want, but I think it is silly to think that.


they get it cuz its cool.... and its the shtf dream they have.

BA is a tool like any other item you buy to be better prepared for xxx event.

IMHO BA would come in handy in a BOV BO....or while atthe BOL in case zombies show up. sides that i doubt most will be walking around shtf in full rattle.... hell most cant walk around with a ruck on let alone 40lbs of rifle ,ammo and BA LOL
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:28:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 1:00:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.


Body armor is of very marginal value. A whole lot of things must have gone wrong for BA to be useful. AND, things have gone poorly enough where you're being shot at, but well enough to where the shots are hitting your BA.

Think about how badly things will have to get for BA to be useful. Sure there's nothing wrong with having it if you want it, but you'll never need it*.

BA is probably most useful for people who are obligated to go towards trouble (military, police).

Name a situation in U.S. history where the S has HTF, and BA would have been useful. (aside from the War Between the States! )


* In this case "never" is used as in "I'll never be hit by lightning", or "I'll never need to replace my liver, heart, a lung and both kidneys in the same day". Yeah, it's possible, but so unlikely that I don't really prepare ahead of time for it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 1:13:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911Custom:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.


Guns very marginal value. A whole lot of things must have gone wrong for guns to be useful. AND, things have gone poorly enough where you're being shot at, and need to return fire.

Think about how badly things will have to get for guns to be useful. Sure there's nothing wrong with having it if you want it, but you'll never need it*.

A gun is probably most useful for people who are obligated to go towards trouble (military, police).

Name a situation in U.S. history where the S has HTF, and a gun would have been useful. (aside from the War Between the States! )



Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:59:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.
Guess you've never been shot then.........


Agreed!

If you have to choose some armor and we are talking a domestic crisis, I would go with the concealable stuff. If I saw a guy running around in external body armor while I was deployed in the USA, I would probably wonder what he is up to...IMHO I would try to conceal whatever it is you are wearing from the mil, ng, LEO, Red Cross, and whoever else shows up...maybe even FEMA ...as that stuff would probably make alot of gov people/first responders nervous. Just my .02....I would try to at least look like the average joe....plus you may get one of those great FEMA 1,000 dollar credit cards to buy beer like alot of the "refugees" did.

If you are talking about another country in this hemishere other than Canada...then go with anything you can get!!!!! You will probably need it!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:07:36 PM EST
I would run both. Concealable armor would be great if you needed to blend in. But if you were bugging in and had to deal with baddies...the high threat stuff would be better.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:09:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.
Guess you've never been shot then.........


I think you won the argument there.


I agree. I've got IIIA & SAPI Plates that I use for training & will wear in any SHTF event. The plates will have their place & not be worn continuous, but the IIIA certainly will.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:43:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paveway_:

Originally Posted By 1911Custom:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.


Guns very marginal value. A whole lot of things must have gone wrong for guns to be useful. AND, things have gone poorly enough where you're being shot at, and need to return fire.

Think about how badly things will have to get for guns to be useful. Sure there's nothing wrong with having it if you want it, but you'll never need it*.

A gun is probably most useful for people who are obligated to go towards trouble (military, police).

Name a situation in U.S. history where the S has HTF, and a gun would have been useful. (aside from the War Between the States! )





Paveway, you are right on! You thought you were being sarcastic, but you hit the nail on the head. These tools have a teensy-tiny role to fill in life, even in a survival situation.

In most survaval / SHTF scenarios that can be envisioned in the US, I'd rather have a bottle of water, a can of SpaghettiOs, and a Leatherman, than a gun and BA.

That being said, anyone can come up with a situation (SHTF or not) where having a gun would have been useful in situations that actually occur daily in the U.S.


For the OP, I have decided that full-view BA is the way to go. It says "don't **** with me" to people who might otherwise choose to prey on you. Unarmed or knife-wielding cretins won't even think about messing with a dude in BA and an AR slung over the shoulder.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:10:26 PM EST
if I was going to check in to the super dome I would have concealable armor but if I am going tactical I will wear my vest in tactical carrier mode. But I wear a vest everyday so I really would feel naked without all my crap on in any SHTF event.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:23:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By protus:
[snip] [/snip]
BA is a tool like any other item you buy to be better prepared for xxx event.


Just so we're clear on this . . . we aren't talking about BA Baracus from the A Team, right? 'Cus if he is indeed a tool, as you say, then I have chosen the wrong life model.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:37:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Short of Katrina 2 or the New Madrid fault causing a 9.0 quake, would not concealble body armor be more useful?


Yes.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:38:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
For 99% of SHTF situations you will face, a decent chest rig and concealable armor will probably be overkill.


concealble body armor is already useful and would be even more so in even the slightest breakdown of society.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:42:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911Custom:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.


Body armor is of very marginal value. A whole lot of things must have gone wrong for BA to be useful. AND, things have gone poorly enough where you're being shot at, but well enough to where the shots are hitting your BA.

Think about how badly things will have to get for BA to be useful. Sure there's nothing wrong with having it if you want it, but you'll never need it*.

BA is probably most useful for people who are obligated to go towards trouble (military, police).

Name a situation in U.S. history where the S has HTF, and BA would have been useful. (aside from the War Between the States!


Watts riots, LA riots. anywhere there are thugs armed primarily with handguns who are using the chaos to uptempo their normal crime activity.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 10:01:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911Custom:

Originally Posted By DemolitionDamon:
Honestly, I don't consider any kind of body armor to be useful.


A fire extinguisher is of very marginal value. A whole lot of things must have gone wrong for a fire extinguisher to be useful. AND, things have gone poorly enough where you're being have a fire, but well enough could put the fire out a fire extinguisher.

Think about how badly things will have to get for a fire extinguisher to be useful. Sure there's nothing wrong with having it if you want it, but you'll never need it*.

A fire extinguisher is probably most useful for people who are obligated to go towards trouble (firemen).

Name a situation in U.S. history where the S has HTF, and a fire extinguisher would have been useful. (aside from the War Between the States! )


* In this case "never" is used as in "I'll never be hit by lightning", or "I'll never need to replace my liver, heart, a lung and both kidneys in the same day". Yeah, it's possible, but so unlikely that I don't really prepare ahead of time for it.


Or would you like me to fill in the blanks with; seat belts, safety glasses, hearing protection, motorcycle helmet, etc.

I hope you see the point that the things that have been listed are tools for risk management. Yes I have never needed a fire extinguisher but I own one because it is very cheap insurance. The cost of not having a fire extinguisher when a fire happens could be catastrophic.

Now say you live on Galveston island and Rita II is inbound. A real Cat 5+P+ you'd be wise to BO 45 ft storm surge hurricane. Did I mention that you'd be doing a BO. So you have to BO through Houston then inland from there. Roads will be crowded the tempers will be agitated the ill prepared will be agitated. This is an excellent mix to create road rage. This would be a good time to wear body armor if you have some.
Top Top