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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/16/2015 7:10:34 PM EST
I have always been a huge .45 Colt fan. In terms of long term sustainable use I have a hard time thinking of something better for general around the farm use than a good lever action in .45 Colt. I would much rather have an AR for social stuff, but for critters and realistically a lot of self defense stuff I'm all for .45C.

Link Posted: 1/16/2015 10:28:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/16/2015 10:30:10 PM EST by Rockyriver]
You posted 7.62x54R but not the more popular 7.62x39
Did we forget something? I would think 7.62x39 would be a better SHTF round than 30-30 or .270. LOL
I guess other will be its voting place.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 10:34:19 PM EST
45 Colt isn't really considered a rifle round any more. If I had to pick a pistol/rifle round maybe, but not good at distance which is what a rifle is for. Also reload-ability would favor a pistol round which could be cast.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 10:48:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By usmcmp:
45 Colt isn't really considered a rifle round any more. If I had to pick a pistol/rifle round maybe, but not good at distance which is what a rifle is for. Also reload-ability would favor a pistol round which could be cast.
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I cast .45 Colt with melted down tire weights. The brass is able to be reloaded many more times than bottle neck rifle cases. I have a pistol that will shoot the same rounds, I can hunt pretty much anything local to me, and now that I have a good pile of brass I can reload cheaper than anything else. Also 8 pounds of powder goes a very long way when each cartridge is only getting 5-6 grains of powder. In a pinch I can reload with black powder also.

The biggest hang up for me isn't the range, but I can see how that might be location dependent. The biggest hang up I have is how fragile a lever action is compared to a more modern bolt gun. I have a pretty good pile of parts, as I have bought two whenever I have broken something. But it is still an issue.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 10:55:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
You posted 7.62x54R but not the more popular 7.62x39
Did we forget something? I would think 7.62x39 would be a better SHTF round than 30-30 or .270. LOL
I guess other will be its voting place.
View Quote


Hmm. When I think 7.62x39 I think AK type rifles and the SKS. Also steal cased ammo. I'm not really a fan of either. I know there are some out there that are pretty wicked good shooters, but the bulk of them aren't something I really even want to fool with given my price range for something like that.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 11:06:38 PM EST

A better fit would be dependent on situation and game but I think .308 is pretty good for a wide variety of game in North America.
It would definitely be effective for self defense but not light wait or concealable..

Similar calibers would work similarly.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 11:15:19 PM EST
The best round for long term survival is the one that can be resupplied the easiest and the fastest.

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:20:50 AM EST
OP said long term. Setting aside the likelihood of that scenario if it did happen

a low pressure black powder era pistol round is awfully hard to argue against.

If you have a bullet mold, a Lee hand press, and primers you have the ability to

make ammo. Black powder can be made, and lead scrounged. Pistol rounds

make smokeless powder go a long way. The brass can last many many loads.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 11:00:48 AM EST
Whatever you have...
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 11:36:59 AM EST
22mag
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:35:42 PM EST
Since the ability to reload has already been brought up I'll mention this:

The .30-30, .308 and the .30-06 can all be hand loaded with everything from buckshot up to 220 grain (and heavier) projectiles. With the buckshot loads you're only burning 5-10 grains of pistol powder so you're getting the same amount as your pistol round (these make a great barnyard load BTW) and you've still got the ability to load full power rounds to actually have some range if needed. Lot of guys load cast bullets in .308 and .30-06 so that isn't a huge advantage to the pistol either IMO. The difference to me is that the pistol rounds can be hard cast and will hit harder (being fatter and heavier) than the smaller caliber rounds when using cast bullets.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 3:16:07 PM EST
Old timers usually had one rifle or shotgun for most of the work they needed to get done.

Reading up on how versatile something like the 45-70 or the 444 marlin can be will make some folks wonder if it is not a do it all sort of cartridge. They can be loaded with some round ball loads to be a bit like a shotgun, maybe something like a 410 perhaps. They obviously are well known for chucking one single big piece of lead out to long ranges if the owner of the rifle is capable then the round is usually capable. Folks have made low powered loads using filler to keep the gun powder back by the primer instead of the letting the small amount of powder for these loads get spread out and possably not burn right and cause a kaboom or inconsitant burns.

Sure something like the 44 mag or 45 colt can also do a lot of stuff as well.

And cowboy shooters have black powder loads for all of these since they are old designs and came from time before smokeless powder.

Lots of folks just figure a shotgun will do the job as well, and until you get into longer range stuff I agree with the shotgun. I honestly don't know how far out slugs can go, I limit myself to 100 yards for practice but I also tend to buy medium quality slugs. I know some of the better stuff is much more accurate, I just never tried it in my shotguns and have not read up to see what others feel it is capable of.

Overall it comes down to what you want to accomplish and if you can make the tool do the job.

To some extent the thread about 2 firearms for a year in the woods might have gone this direction if there was no limit on ammo.

Someone with a setup of lead, molds, knowledge, powder, books, primers, brass, and skill to use it all can make some rifles do anything they need done.

Some folks would do as well to just have a gun for each job.

Think about it, buy it and see what you can do with it.

There is an article I have a copy of somewhere about oddball loads for the 444marlin but if you run some searches you will run across similar stuff for other calibers. I just got to where I liked the 44 mag and the 444marlin is a bit like a longer 44 mag round. So some of the bullets could be shared perhaps, but to some extent you might be trying to run really light stuff in the 444 doing that so it might not be best to try to go that route.

I have owned 2 different 44 mag marlins. Eventually sold them both. They are handy little things but I prefer a revolver since I can wear it all the time and for a rifle I would rather have a rifle cartridge. The one thing that gets me to reconsider this is a 44 mag rifle set up with a can on it.

The round for long term survival is the one you know, stocked ammo and components for, and can use to do what you need done.

Expecting a 44 mag to do what a 444 marlin can do is a bit much. Using regular 444 marlin loads for everything will use up a lot of powder compared to what some 44 specials out of the marlin 44 mag lever action might be able to do just fine. Get to where you download that 444 marlin and can safely operate it at lower powder levels, and you might have something.

I don't have the skill yet.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 3:38:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Whatever you have...
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I would have to agree. AO and situation plays a huge role on the question at hand.

Is it a degraded society like post great depression and we never recover? Mad Max? Catastrophic weather event? World War? Depending on the scenario and your location your choices could all be very different. Maybe your headed out into the wilderness to try and live like a mountain man/ pioneer?

In my mind I can picture a scenario where I would want a single shot break open shotgun with a primer adaptor so I can use it as a shotgun like a muzzle loader. Of course if the situation turns out to be modern mad max that probably wouldn't be a very good choice.

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 4:01:50 PM EST
Long term.

12 gauge.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:43:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Long term.

12 gauge.
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I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:48:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:


I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Long term.

12 gauge.


I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.


What kind of survival are we talking about here?

If I am after unknown game I would want something with some versatility. Go out after a deer with a 30-30 and flush 12 grouse and you're gonna have a bad time.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:53:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By clownbear69:
The best round for long term survival is the one that can be resupplied the easiest and the fastest.

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Heh. "Resupply". We couldn't even get most mainstream chamberings at Wal-Mart after the 2008 election and Sandy Hook. After an event where something was actually happening, forget it. What you have, is all you're going to have.


And put me down for 12 gauge as being the best all around. As long as people aren't entertaining some fantasy of hiking across the country, engaging in gun battles and living off the land, there is nothing wrong with it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:53:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:


What kind of survival are we talking about here?

If I am after unknown game I would want something with some versatility. Go out after a deer with a 30-30 and flush 12 grouse and you're gonna have a bad time.
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Long term.

12 gauge.


I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.


What kind of survival are we talking about here?

If I am after unknown game I would want something with some versatility. Go out after a deer with a 30-30 and flush 12 grouse and you're gonna have a bad time.


That has literally never happened to me. But I do see your point.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:02:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:


That has literally never happened to me. But I do see your point.
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Long term.

12 gauge.


I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.


What kind of survival are we talking about here?

If I am after unknown game I would want something with some versatility. Go out after a deer with a 30-30 and flush 12 grouse and you're gonna have a bad time.


That has literally never happened to me. But I do see your point.


Never flushed a bird or rabbit while after a deer?

Of course now it doesn't matter so much, but if you are out just gunning for meat to feed your family it would be pretty depressing. I would probably chamber my birdshot and have a slug second. If you had a double barrel it would be even easier.

Personally I would rather be trapping than hunting, but you have to do what you can.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:42:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:


Never flushed a bird or rabbit while after a deer?

Of course now it doesn't matter so much, but if you are out just gunning for meat to feed your family it would be pretty depressing. I would probably chamber my birdshot and have a slug second. If you had a double barrel it would be even easier.

Personally I would rather be trapping than hunting, but you have to do what you can.
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Long term.

12 gauge.


I dunno, size of the ammo, and size of the gun verses round capacity is a pretty big turn off for me.


What kind of survival are we talking about here?

If I am after unknown game I would want something with some versatility. Go out after a deer with a 30-30 and flush 12 grouse and you're gonna have a bad time.



That has literally never happened to me. But I do see your point.


Never flushed a bird or rabbit while after a deer?

Of course now it doesn't matter so much, but if you are out just gunning for meat to feed your family it would be pretty depressing. I would probably chamber my birdshot and have a slug second. If you had a double barrel it would be even easier.

Personally I would rather be trapping than hunting, but you have to do what you can.


Small stuff like squirrels I can typically nip the side of the head if they are on the ground. Trapping is the preferred way for me though. You ever use a drill and a marble for small fur bearers?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 2:21:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Whatever you have...
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This

12
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 3:29:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 3:31:56 PM EST by Talyn]
I think a lot of this depends on where you AOPs is, and the conditions you'll be dealing with.

30/06 for first place followed by .308
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:38:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 9:39:05 PM EST by OverScoped]
I voted 22, because its quieter.

I live 4 miles (over the hills and through the woods) from my gun range. I can hear most centerfire rifle rounds and some pistol rounds at that distance. Ive gone down and shot 22's while my wife is listening outside and she cant hear it.
ETA, I can hear the 12 ga shots on trap night pretty easy too.
4 miles..... that's a lot of people, even out here in the country that can hear shooting.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:56:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:


Hmm. When I think 7.62x39 I think AK type rifles and the SKS. Also steal cased ammo. I'm not really a fan of either. I know there are some out there that are pretty wicked good shooters, but the bulk of them aren't something I really even want to fool with given my price range for something like that.
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
You posted 7.62x54R but not the more popular 7.62x39
Did we forget something? I would think 7.62x39 would be a better SHTF round than 30-30 or .270. LOL
I guess other will be its voting place.


Hmm. When I think 7.62x39 I think AK type rifles and the SKS. Also steal cased ammo. I'm not really a fan of either. I know there are some out there that are pretty wicked good shooters, but the bulk of them aren't something I really even want to fool with given my price range for something like that.


I would much rather have an AKM or SKS chambered in 7.62x39 over a lever action rifle chambered for a pistol round. But that is just my preference, I guess.
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