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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:57:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 7:18:28 PM EDT by imacbo]
OK lets say you have 200 bucks total for a SHTF, Zombie, Bug out, Get the hell out of Dodge gun. What would you buy? You can only spend the money on the gun or upgrades for it. We will say you already have 1000 rds of ammo for the gun you buy. What would you get? What upgrades would you do? And Why?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:02:14 AM EDT
shotgun
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:05:27 AM EDT
.30-30
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:08:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fsk1290:
shotgun


Same. It was my first gun for just that reason. If I couldn't get any more, at least I'd have something that was suitable (not perfect) for almost all areas but concealment.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:10:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 8:11:21 AM EDT by RunsWithScissors]
Either a shotgun for more rural areas, or a .357mag revolver (ex: Ruger Security Six) if it will be necessary to conceal.

A ruger semiauto could probably be had for that, but it would likely be a 9-40-45.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:11:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 8:12:57 AM EDT by Cacinok]
sks.



eta. simple, easy to shoot, good stopping power, reliable, accurate, and will take deer down as well.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:11:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cacinok:
sks


ayup
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:12:22 AM EDT
sks

period

txl
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:22:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
sks

period

txl


Plus the ammo is still under .20 round
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:43:36 AM EDT
SKS baby! It's the only way to be sure. A shotty isn't that great because there is no range. Especially when you may need to hit game or a Lima Delta in the 100+ yd range.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:47:39 AM EDT
I'll repress my inner lawyer who wants to ask for 8,000 more situation details and just play along . $200, huh?

Urban environment, concealment short-range most likely use: used but decent, fixed-sight .357 (so you could also use .38s) w/ 3"-4" barrel (S&W M13, Ruger SP101 or similar).

Concealment not an issue and/or hunting/distance work considered: SKS.

Shotgun's nice but SKS will give you more range and more rounds. Only downside would be ammo - 7.62x39mm is actually pretty common (at least out here) but I'd be willing to bet statistically there'd be more 12 gauge available. Unless everyone else grabbed them, too, because I'd also bet more people in your area own 870s than SKSs. Unless, of course.... Ah! Damned lawyer! Get out of my head!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:50:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 8:51:01 AM EDT by Bhart89]
Used Arcus 9mm (hi-power clone) or Makarov.

A concealable pistol trumps a rifle or shotgun in all but the most serious SHTF scenarios.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:51:44 AM EDT
Another vote for the sks.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:14:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 9:17:49 AM EDT by cupcake]
SKS IF you already have the ammo. If not and you have to start collecting ammo on a budget, ruger 10-22.

Upgrades: Ammo. Maybe a $30 4x scope, extra mag or 2. If the budget is tight, then forget the tacticool crap and get more ammo. Some bulk stuff is fine, but also get you some cci HP minimags and/or stingers.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 9:22:59 AM EDT by m200maker]
Saiga in .308 Win for the Win. $400.
870 Express 12 ga. under $300.
SKS 7.62 X 39 $250-$500.

Take your pick.

BTW, Gunkid would have said anything in .22 lr.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:22:54 AM EDT
sks
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:26:05 AM EDT
Glad to see the old SKS getting some well deserved respect in this thread. I would choose the SKS too if the limit is $200. They are really good guns.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:47:26 AM EDT
sks or mossy 500
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:16:43 AM EDT
I don't like them very much myself, but per the op's question. SKS.......but I would probably do a used shotty.
-Green.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:21:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By washburnizer:
Glad to see the old SKS getting some well deserved respect in this thread. I would choose the SKS too if the limit is $200. They are really good guns.


I can't get mine to feed and eject regularly......
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:31:01 AM EDT
If its really SHTF/GOOD the last thing I want is a pistol. SKS or a long barrel shotty with slugs. I don't think anything else is under the 200. dollar limit. ken
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:53:50 AM EDT
SKS or shotgun. Shotgun can be used for a few different things depending on what you load it with.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:54:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:54:41 AM EDT by l1a1man]
SKS, no upgrades but a sling.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:15:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:16:12 AM EDT by Cacinok]

Originally Posted By KeithC:
I'll repress my inner lawyer who wants to ask for 8,000 more situation details and just play along . $200, huh?

Urban environment, concealment short-range most likely use: used but decent, fixed-sight .357 (so you could also use .38s) w/ 3"-4" barrel (S&W M13, Ruger SP101 or similar).

Concealment not an issue and/or hunting/distance work considered: SKS.

Shotgun's nice but SKS will give you more range and more rounds. Only downside would be ammo - 7.62x39mm is actually pretty common (at least out here) but I'd be willing to bet statistically there'd be more 12 gauge available. Unless everyone else grabbed them, too, because I'd also bet more people in your area own 870s than SKSs. Unless, of course.... Ah! Damned lawyer! Get out of my head!!!


you really need to get your inner lawyer trained better. my inner lawyer went straight to the sks given the requirements as laid out by the OP. keith, i bet you were one of those who tried to change the hypo in law school in order to answer the question.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:28:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cacinok:
keith, i bet you were one of those who tried to change the hypo in law school in order to answer the question.


Nah - never went to law school, I was just raised in a NY Italian-American family so we're good about wonderin' about the guy with the thing that might wanna think about the stuff we talked about at the place with the other guy . Results in a case of "monkey brain" remarkably similar to being a lawyer....
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:31:25 AM EDT
SKS? Really? that's such horse shit..

People fail to see.. SHTF is about staying alive and safe.. it's not a chance to go out and fight the forces of evil with your 50 year old surplus rifle. You should be trying not to get into 200yd running gunfights with your neighbors after hurricanes/tornados/floods

Shotgun.. ALL THE WAY.

You have so many ammo choices.. any sporting goods store that stocks ammo will carry 12ga something. "People".. regular neighbor people.. will have 12ga.

Try to hit a running rabbit or shoot a bird out of the sky with an sks..

Shotgun Shotgun Shotgun..
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:34:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Windjammer223:
If its really SHTF/GOOD the last thing I want is a pistol.


Why? You want to advertise to everyone that you have a weapon? A pistol should be a first purchase..

Would you carry around town a loaded rifle/shotgun slung across your shoulder right now? You can legally.. but you wouldn't.. because you would attract too much attention.. just think about all the attention you would get if people were scared...

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:36:58 AM EDT
I have seen used Savage 110s in .270, with scope, for $225-250. If you are really short on cash do milsurp: a Mauser M-48a or a Moisin-Nagant 91/30. In some situations being able to kill something from far away may be useful.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:41:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:52:06 AM EDT by KeithC]

Originally Posted By unpleasant:
People fail to see.. SHTF is about staying alive and safe.


While I agree the whole point is staying alive and safe, what people also fail to see is "SHTF" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people in a lot of different environments/terrain (hence my lawyer schtick and why I now avoid any "PM versus ammo for SHTF" threads). That's why I'm big on conditional answers.

Your shotgun-shotgun-shotgun won't mean shit to me on our eastern plains or in elk country. It would be good in an urban environment unless, of course, it's a NOLA situation which has limited - and possibly unfamiliar - LEO operations still going on. I'd prefer a measly pistol discretely under my shirt than toting around a shotty when there might be CHP volunteering to "help".

Regardless of the age of the technology, something that can reliably function in most conditions, is mechanically simple and can accurately place rounds on man- and deer-sized targets out to, say, 200 yards or so is hardly a hindrance to survival.

ETA: A load of birdshot is a real good choice for birds and small critters on the move but, if things were that bad, I'd just as soon go the netting/snare/deadfall route for the little guys - expend less energy myself, draw less attention than with the noise of gunfire, save ammo. Plus there'd always be at least *one* little s.o.b. pellet that I'd miss and either slice into with a good knife or munch down on. Better to get a lot of meat at once whenever possible, is my feeling.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:41:16 AM EDT
Mossberg 500 Lots of ammo, or Mosin Nagant any variant with lots of ammo.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:11:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:18:05 PM EDT
All of my preps are geared for a suburban environment as I have no BOL So since I am limited to $200, it would have to be the Mossy H/D model for $179.00 and a ammo belt!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:48:42 PM EDT
12 ga. pump shotgun (I prefer the Rem 870 but a lot of folks get great results with the Mossberg 500) or Marlin .30-30 carbine.

In both cases, ammo is cheap (relatively speaking) and universally available. Either has more than enough power to kill any man or North American beast within 200 yards. The shotgun has the added versatility of birdshot shells. As funds allow, you can add a wide variety of accessories to either weapon. Optical scopes, electronic dot sights, spare ammo carriers...all are easily accommodated.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:49:34 PM EDT
Mosin-Nagant. 79 ~ 110 dollars on sale at Big 5. 880 rounds, 199 from ammo man. Get a Monte Carlo Stock, 60 bucks. Tough to break that rifle. 880 rounds of that shoulder buster will last the average shooter several years.

The SKS would be better for closer ranges.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 1:05:44 PM EDT
Shotgun--------------no question.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 1:56:47 PM EDT
I like the options a shotgun gives, even though the ammo is bulky. From Brenneke slugs of various powers (link) to buck shot to small game shot to bird shot to target loads. It's easy to buy a box here and there when you've got extra cash and in time you've got quite a supply.

GL
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 3:12:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Halffast:
.30-30


Huge Plus 1!!!!

Very very little maintenance, ultra ultra reliable!! Ammo is plentiful anywhere.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 4:21:08 PM EDT
Remington 870 or Marlin 336 30-30.

Get the Mossberg if you like them better, I prefer the 870 but it really doesnt matter.

Hit the pawn shops and the used gun racks. $200 should leave you money left over for ammo.

My first 4 guns were a 10/22, 870, 336 (30-30), and a Ruger P90 45acp. If I had it to do over again on the same budget I wouldnt change a thing.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:00:39 PM EDT
Mosin-Nagant M44 is a great rifle for under $100- ammo is cheap too. Limited mag capacity and slower reloading though.
SKS is a great semi-auto for under $200- Ammo is very reasonable.
A good used surplus pistol (all sorts of models and calibers) can be had for very reasonable prices. A handgun is a survivalist's best friend!
Shotguns are good out to 100 yards with slugs (maybe further if you are any good) and can be used to hunt food. Of course, you can aquire food in other ways besides shooting. Like the Nagant, limited mag capacity could really ruin your day.
Pistol caliber carbine. These can be inexpensive(Highpoint) and are fairly compact- KEL-TEC sub2000- Makes sense if you own a pistol in the same caliber. Not the first thing I would grab if SHTF, but I could make do with it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:01:42 PM EDT
If I only have $200 to spend then it would be this. Maverick 88 Security 8-Shot Model and a used Taurus Model 85 or Charter Arms Undercoverette .





The Maverick is made by Mossberg and they work well for their price range. Same with Charter Arms and Taurus. Not the best but good little guns for their prices. Out of the three the Maverick series of shotguns are actually worth their prices new. They are 100% good economical shotguns.

Reason why? With a 8-shot 12 gauge I can have something that I can fight back with. Slugs, Buck, etc... also I can hunt. Major key of surviving is eating. The small frame .38 caliber revolver because a pistol is better then no pistol. I've seen all three of them go for around $100 each used. Also I can find used Smiths around the $100 price range. Beat to shit in terms of looks but they will work.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:06:06 PM EDT
+1 for SKS, but I haven't seen one for under 275 in a long while, at least in my area.

Shotgun is good, but I'm afraid it lack reach, which would really hurt you unless you are always going to be close in. If I am going to carry something big, I'd rather have a rifle than a shotgun.... and if it needs to be something small, then you can't beat a concealable handgun.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:29:00 PM EDT
CORRECT ARFCOM ANSWER: GET BOTH

should be able to find m38 moisen nagant and a h&r/nef single barrel 12ga, and still be in at under $200 easy if you look around(in this area anyway, YMMV.)

about 4 years ago i bought a pair n.i.b."ish" m38s for $70 each at a pawn shop. i'm sure new they are more expensive, espicially now. but they can probablly still be had used for that price. and i've bought several lightly used single barrels h&r/nef for $65 or less in pawn shops just after hunting season or christmas. once cleaned up a little bit they make great presents or "handout guns"...

and the op said "assume already 1000rnds of ammo", my option leaves a couple dollars left over for bandoliers, and cleaning supplies. leaving only slings, do them yourself with paracord, old belts, milsurp webbing etc. anything you have laying around...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:35:53 PM EDT
I think for most SHTF stuff no reason to have to have some expensive gun You can find good serviciabl;e guns for under the price you asked about easly. For example here are two i own...



The rifle is a sporterised .303 Enfield made by Savage. Bore and mechanicaly excellent and shoots great. The .303 is a powerful cartridge and in my experance very common to find I have a big box of probably about 700 rounds that I have picked up over the years. I bought this rifle last year for $40 at an auction where several simular ones went for about the same . I plan on cutting the barrel back and remounting new sights. I have other enfields and have always found them very dependable...
... The revolver is a WWII S&W Victory model .38 Special. This gun has some areas of pitting but bore and chambers are excellent and works fine of course. I got it for $100 because of the pitting but that doesn't affect anything.Shoots very well and I have never had any problem with it. I have lots of handguns including some pretty expensive ones but last year when I drove cross country the one i took with me was this $100 S&W
So for $140 you could have a rifle and a handgun...with the remaining $60 you could probably pick up a good single shot or bolt action shotgun or maybe a .22 rifle.

Yes maybe if I was in some firefight with a bunch of heavly armed guys I would rather have a different rifle or handgun but what are the realistic chanvces of that happening? I think somthing like this Enfield or .38 would perform fine for 98% of what you would need a rifle or pistol for in a SHTF situation ....Todd
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:36:23 PM EDT
Well I already have 2 AKs in 7.62x39. 1 Mav 88 12g pump, 1 K31 (with 8x32x50 scope), 1 91/30 Mosin Nagant, And 1 Nagant Pistol.... So today with my 200 This is what I bought... M44 Mosin Nagant, with ATI monty stock, ATI bolt and scope mount, and a 3x9 Weaver scope All already on the rifle. And about 100 rds for the 7.62x54. I will try to put up pics later. Oh and the wife ok-ed for me to get the 440 rd can of x54
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:42:10 PM EDT
to the OP: hell man, you didn't put that information in the original post. if we knew you had the ak and shotty and whatnot i imagine you would have gotten a lot more responses for picking up a .22 and a more common calibered handgun...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:52:19 PM EDT
Yeah i knew if I added what I had I would have gotten more of a narrowed down answer but I wanted to know the first thing that came to mind for SHTF. I wanted the first thought that came to mind.

by the way here are some pics


Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:47:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 8:57:56 PM EDT by itgoesboom]

Originally Posted By unpleasant:
SKS? Really? that's such horse shit..


Mighty superior attitude you have there. No room for others opinions? No chance you are wrong? Let's find out.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
People fail to see.. SHTF is about staying alive and safe.. it's not a chance to go out and fight the forces of evil with your 50 year old surplus rifle. You should be trying not to get into 200yd running gunfights with your neighbors after hurricanes/tornados/floods


I think most people see that. Most people would also rather have the ability to fire rapidly, penetrate cover and outrange the types of aggressors that are likely to come out in a SHTF scenerio.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
Shotgun.. ALL THE WAY.


Not that clear cut. Not by a long shot.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
You have so many ammo choices..


That same ammo is also heavy. And the more types of ammo you have for the shotgun increases the odds that what you have loaded in the gun is the wrong type for the situation.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
any sporting goods store that stocks ammo will carry 12ga something.


Sporting goods stores will likely be closed during SHTF. Guns and ammo disappeared pretty quick in NOLA from what I have read.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
"People".. regular neighbor people.. will have 12ga.


What makes you think they will want to share? And what are the odds that they are going to have the right kind? Birdshot isn't going to be very useful for defense, but that's what people usually have stocked up. Not many will have much buck and slugs.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
Try to hit a running rabbit or shoot a bird out of the sky with an sks..


Why are you going to waste ammo on a bird or a rabbit? That's what snares and traps are for. Shooting at birds and rabbits is a waste of precious ammo, makes too much noise (which draws unwanted attention).


Originally Posted By unpleasant:
Shotgun Shotgun Shotgun..


Um, no.

-Limited range.
-Slow to reload
-Poor penetration of soft body armor
-Low capacity
-Heavy recoil
-Ammo weighs a lot
-Did I mention limited range?

On the other hand, the SKS has a few things going for it:

-Ultra reliable
-Quick to reload with stripper clips
-Accurate out to 200-300 meters
-Quick to shoot
-Ammo is cheap, so you can stock up now. Compare it to $1 a round buckshot and slugs
-Penetrates soft body armor (and yes, this is becoming more popular with thugs)

I have both. SHTF, and I could only grab one of the two, it would be the SKS, and that is coming from someone who has stocked up on ammo for the 12ga, and prefers it for HD over my AR.


Originally Posted By unpleasant:

Originally Posted By Windjammer223:
If its really SHTF/GOOD the last thing I want is a pistol.


Why? You want to advertise to everyone that you have a weapon? A pistol should be a first purchase..

Would you carry around town a loaded rifle/shotgun slung across your shoulder right now? You can legally.. but you wouldn't.. because you would attract too much attention.. just think about all the attention you would get if people were scared...



First logical thing you have posted in this thread.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:22:54 AM EDT
I really like the Enfield No4mk1. You can get a suprising volume of fire out of one. The .303 round is also very powerful. It also holds 10 rounds, and can be quickly loaded from a stripper clip. I like the SKS too, but I don't see them for cheap anymore. I would buy an Enfield and a CZ-52 handgun for >$300 and be done. I would get a can of 1,200 rounds of 7.62x25, a can of .303 Brit, and some windex/CLP. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:32:13 AM EDT
I am gonna have to vote for the SKS, with the 30-30 in close second. The only reason is that the reloads with the SKS are quicker than the 30-30 and ammo is a tad bit lighter. This is an opinion on overall usefulness. I have both, and would take either with a 1000 rounds of ammo in a SHTF scenario.

Toad
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 4:50:41 AM EDT
SKS of course
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 5:00:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fourteenpointfive:
sks or mossy 500


+1

Either one offers mutli-role support. You can buy a butt load of different barrels to suit your needs for the 500. From blackpowder to slug gun to 28" bird to line throwing.
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