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Posted: 3/3/2008 2:36:01 PM EST
I know I'm on Ar15.com but just like to know what you all think is the better survival battle rifle? AR-15 or AK-47? Please tell me why you would pick the one over the other and don't say cause I own xxx amount of ammo and mags for that rifle.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 2:59:51 PM EST
This has been beaten to death, and there still is a big split on what people think.

I like the AR the best as it is more accurate, more ergonomic, more modular, and I can carry more ammo as well as get a better selection of ammo. I also feel that the AR is just as reliable as the AK, but you will hear different from other people.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 3:06:17 PM EST
If SHTF which would you have a better chance of finding ammo for?

In my AO, 7.62x39 is getting pretty scarce
.223 can be found at numerous places
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 3:09:21 PM EST
Hands down, I'd pick an AK, here or anywhere in the world.

I have way more trigger time, consistantly over the past 15 or more years with the AK system. I know it in and out and have carried one a lot over all kinds of terrain and conditions.

I have 100% confidence in my AKs and always have. I cannot say that about my ARs. Overall, way more people have had to fiddle around with their ARs to get them to run well than AK operators do. AR owners sure seem to make a lot of excuses, like 1911 owners, about why their weapon doesn't run. I almost never gear that from an AK owner.

The AK is more forgiving of dirt, snow, mud, water, poor maintainance and questionable ammo or mags.

If I do my part I can get solid hits at 300 meters on half a man sized target using the factory irons on an AK. Combat acceptable accuracy IMO. I can do the same with the AR, but the other qualities tip my favor towards the AK.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 4:37:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 4:42:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Is something in a .308 an option?

Of the two little rifles I'd take the AR.

What he said

Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:03:47 PM EST
Is cost a factor? If not then the AR, if it is, then how about an SKS? As bullet proof as an AK, so Im told as I have not had the chance to shoot my new one yet and the same ammo, but available for under $200.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:10:23 PM EST
Im a die hard AR fan, but you simply cant beat the reliability and simplicity of an AK.

So im torn. Im not an AK fan and dont own one, but they have merit.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:24:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2008 3:39:03 AM EST by meltap308]
As always, the correct answer is "it depends"

If you not going to practice much and not clean the piece much the AK is the correct choice. If you are going to get some training, practice, and keep it clean, the AR has a number of advantages, particuarly with the potential of milspec optics (TA11 ACOG) and a good robust trigger. The optics are particularly useful for those of us with aging eyes.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:31:50 PM EST
If I was going to live like a caveman with no form of support, give me an AK.


With support and a cleaning kit, Ar
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:44:12 PM EST
I have to say it before someone else beats me to it with some smart ass comment,

GET BOTH!! Seriously, they both have high points and low points, but I think we can all agree that both have been effectively killing for a really long time. Also, if you don't have an "evil black rifle" now, you better get shopping just to make sure you have it before the gun grabbers can make more useless laws.

I recommend getting both seriously, because guns are tools, and you use different tools for different jobs. You don't use a pry bar where a shovel is needed, ect.

If you can only afford one, do a lot of research and try your best to go get some trigger time on both systems before you buy. Which ever you decide to buy, it is most important that you get out and shoot your rifle as much as you can afford. A well trained man with any gun is going to be better off than a guy who goes out and spends 5 grand on "the new hotness" and lets it sit in the safe.

Another thing to keep in mind is spare parts, mags, ect. and as much ammo as you can afford to put away. It's not getting any cheaper.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:53:15 PM EST
With a choice between only those two, I'd take an FAL.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:54:02 PM EST
Potato
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:54:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 5:56:16 PM EST
+100 if had to choose the AR.

Originally Posted By Paul:
Is something in a .308 an option?

Of the two little rifles I'd take the AR.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:29:06 PM EST
I would opt for the AK. I have owned several AR-15/M-16s and very few of them proved reliable. I now own 6 AKs and none have ever jammed. I have taken several rifle training classes and have seen lots of AR jams. I have yet to personally witness an AK jam, I am not saying it does not happen, just saying I have not seen it. I prefer the 7.62x39 over the 5.56 so for me the decision was easy. You may want to take some rifle training with both and see which one you prefer and then go with that platform.



Ron
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:35:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:39:11 PM EST
AKS74
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:43:00 PM EST
AR

Better defensive and hunting, IMO.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:54:00 PM EST
Neither. The best survival rifle is a Ruger 10/22. Quiet, accurate, easy for the whole family to shoot well, cheap and compact ammo. That squirrel that you want for supper? The 10/22 won't blow it into a cloud of blood and guts like the .223 or 7.62X39 will.
When it comes to survival, think PRACTICAL, not TACTICAL.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 6:58:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By tayous1:
I know I'm on Ar15.com but just like to know what you all think is the better survival battle rifle? AR-15 or AK-47? Please tell me why you would pick the one over the other and don't say cause I own xxx amount of ammo and mags for that rifle.


interesting.

no one has ever asked this question before.

ar-jedi <-- i would pick the AR, same as the last 87 times.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 7:23:57 PM EST
given the choice between the two, I'd get an actual battle rifle. 308 or 30-06 minimum. My concept of a battle rifle is range of one shot take downs. AR-15s and AKs are battle carbines, for shorter ranges. Try an FAL or AR-10 variant.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 7:41:19 PM EST
.

The AK vs AR debate is not going to ever be resolved. People have already chosen their personal favorite and no amount of argument is going to change any body's mind.

Same thing goes with the M14/M1a, AR10, FAL/L1a1, HK91 advocates.

The good thing is, it gives some of us an excuse to get both and stock up on spare parts. mags and ammo for multiple firearm types.

Just to throw my 2 cents in: For the money, you can't beat a CMP Garand, which is a true battle rifle.

YMMV

Link Posted: 3/3/2008 7:52:28 PM EST
not to be picky, but doesn't "battle rifle" imply a rifle firing a full size cartridge? like the G3 or FN FAL of M14 right???
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:02:12 PM EST
Huh, "Survival Battle Rifle"

All this time I thought SBR meant "short barrelled rifle"

Learn sumthin new every day

Doc
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:22:55 PM EST
My choice is an AK... my best friend's choice is an AR. I still like the guy
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:24:23 PM EST
Since I have so many ARs......
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:31:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:48:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/3/2008 8:51:36 PM EST by Frost7]
An AR. Much better rifle, and ammo is a lot more easily had.

If you're an idiot who can't figure out how to clean/service his rifle every now and then, and don't mind not being able to hit things except at urban warfare distances, then go with an AK.

I mean, seriously, the AR has everything in its favor except that you can't treat it like a piece of junk quite to the degree you can with an AK. And if you're so neck deep in the shit that you can't stop every 2-3 thousand rounds to clean your rifle, then you have the kind of problems that neither an AR or AK can be much help with. Better to bring a minigun for that kind of environment.
Link Posted: 3/3/2008 8:58:48 PM EST
+1 to 10/22 and what you train with.

The other thing to look at is what are the police and millitary carrying, will you be able to resupply off of them in a true shtf situation. If you get caught away from home with a carbine how long will the ammo in your GHB get you. that being said there is alot more .223 9mm and 40 floating around. 7.62x39 is a great round but your rifle is useless with out it. i say 10/22 besides you can carry alot more 22lr than both choices (500 rounds weighs the same as what 2or3 mags of the other).

but what do i know i just carry a 9mm pistol.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 1:05:38 AM EST

I mean, seriously, the AR has everything in its favor except that you can't treat it like a piece of junk quite to the degree you can with an AK


well duh why ya think its called SHTF


they both have pros and cons.

distance wise-
Ar- yeah you "could" hit a soda can at 350 meters, but would it go through it
AK- yeah at 300m youd go through the can but it would take you all 30 rounds to hit it

all a matter of how you look at things

seriuosly, for most shtf engaments enither will matter. most fights will be 0-200yds. in other words yelling distance. anything further than that youve been planning to fight at xx time.

just use the rifle your trained with the most and trust with your life. if you can honestly say that the AR platform will do all you need to do, then thats the i rifle for you. Same goes with an AK.

for me im a x51 guy....but not with cost of ammo right now. so im playing in the x39 game, and so far i aint had any complaints about the Ak. itw orks everytime and i aint babying it.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 1:27:06 AM EST
FAL, I took a class at front sight during a "sandstorm". My AR10, several AR15's and my friends M1A all had problems from the sand. The guy shooting the FAL never had a failure. To it's credit, the one AK there never had a failure either.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 1:29:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By jc45xd:
FAL, I took a class at front sight during a "sandstorm". My AR10, several AR15's and my friends M1A all had problems from the sand. The guy shooting the FAL never had a failure. To it's credit, the one AK there never had a failure either.


man you guys shoulda cleaned your rifles better jezze
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 1:34:48 AM EST
Cleaned them thoroughly every night after the class.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 2:26:17 AM EST
I would go with the AK myself as well......like protus says, most engagements happen under 200 yrds(actually most military engagements are 75 to 100 yrds) I dont plan on shooting anything past 200yrds anyways, and my AK can do that easy


and did someone actually say 7.62x39 is getting scarce? LOL tell that to dicks sporting goods, walmart, Bass pro shop....all local and fully stocked all the time
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:30:49 AM EST
What kind of training or experience do you have? What kind of funds do you have?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:44:39 AM EST
I was trainined on the M-16 and M4 so I got two AR's. My wife cannot hit shit with a AK and is accurate with a AR. So We both have AR-15's.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:49:34 AM EST
The best weapon IMHO when shtf or its teotwawki would be the one you can get your hands on that is loaded.

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:55:08 AM EST
Both are great rifles, but I would pick my AK, specifically my Polish underfolder. It has been totally reliable, accurate enough, and is fairly portable. The main thing I like about the AR is the weight, or lack of weight. The gun is lighter with the right config, and the mags and ammo are definately lighter. The cheek weld on the Polish UF is horrible though, and I have been seriously considering buying one of the new Arsenal SLR107CR's. SLR

In a SHTF situation it would seem like it is mostly about reliability. That is the main reason I like the AK over the AR. That is also the reason I would go with a Glock over one of my 1911's. (Don't want to start a flame war here) In my experience the AR's and the 1911's are just a little more picky about having the right combo of things to perform completely reliably. I can honestly say I have never had one failure of any kind with any of my AK's or either my G17 or G19. I cannot say that about my AR's and 1911's.

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:58:45 AM EST
I wouldn't pick!!!!...that's why I have both AND an SKS AND a Lee-enfield!!!!
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:01:34 AM EST
I'd favor an AR, due to ammo availability and a few other factors.

Truth be told, cutting through all the BS, if your weapon is reliable and you can use it effectively, it doesn't matter whether it's an AR or an AK, assuming you have a decent supply of ammo and essential spare parts.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:02:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2008 5:02:57 AM EST by Patrick_Henry]
When I think of a SHTF battle rifle, I think zombies and protection against possibly armed invaders.

Not a battle rifle per se, but what about a mini-14?

.223 ammo that is easy to find
+
fewer parts to break / require spares, in comparison to an AR
+
IF you get decent capacity magazines (20 or 30 rd)


Also agree on the 10/22.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:11:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2008 7:11:32 AM EST by bionicmonkey]
What exactly kind of SHTF are you imagining.. jungle warfare and you need to store your weapon in a rice paddy? urban tacticool cqb? general zombie apocalype? each has its strengths.. if I lived in arizona, I'd take the AR for sure over the ak just for long distance accuracy.. up here in the pacific NW, the AK is probably just fine.. maintenance is simple enough on both, parts are plentiful, and ammo too.

If I was starting out, on a budget, I might get the AK, just because of the current ammo cost, but if you have the money, I'd get the AR just because it has so many refinements that the AK lacks.

eta: +1 on the FAL, -1 on the FAL ammo cost..
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:33:13 AM EST
I have both and whether shtf or a fun day at the range the only thing that ever matters is hitting your target, hits count and you can do that much easier with the ar. What makes the ak so great is part of it's downfall, the loose tolerances contribute to the inaccuracies on paper.

I'm a great shot with the AK, I'm even better with an AR. I don't have a problem with cleaning my weapon systems and if the shtf tommorow with piss and saliva I could keep the weapon clean and functioning.

Last note, watch the ending scene of "legends of the fall" if that cop choose to flee, it didn't matter because Pec choose not to let him go, with a sharps rifle. "Never" allow your opponent to be the decider of your exit strategy.

God Bless
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 2:07:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 2:18:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Patrick_Henry:
Not a battle rifle per se, but what about a mini-14?


no.

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 3:12:32 PM EST
Frankly, if it isn't capable of precision, then it isn't going to be on my list.

If I am defending my BOL, I need to capability to get hits on MZB that are shooting from cover. If I am not directly being fired upon, and I have time to perform accurate shots from cover, I expect to be able to get head shots out to 400 yds.

Someone will read this and start whining about how I would never have the opportunity or skill to pull off that kind of shot under stress, but if the rifle isn't up to it, then I don't have the option if I need it.

If you have an AK that can do this, great! More power to you. Your lucky, or fooling yourself.

I know all three of my AR's are capable of that kind of accuracy. They are perfectly reliable because I make it so.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:53:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2008 4:55:32 PM EST by Amric]
I have never shot an AK, so feel free to disregard everything I say.

I can't help remembering a day I was at the range shooting at the 200 yard range, when two guys showed up each with an AK. They were only shooting at 50 yards and not hitting paper EVER all day. The looks on their faces was priceless watching them try and find a hole in the paper. Not sure how much of that was the rifle and how much was the shooter, but I decided that day how much I love the AR.

ETA: Perhaps the rifles were new and not sighted in. Who knows, but they never made any progress and finally left looking very angry.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:56:19 PM EST
ok, I thought that a battle rifle was of midsize caliber like a 308... the ar15 is not a batlte rifle by most accounts. I have a m14 as my battle rifle.
Link Posted: 3/5/2008 4:23:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Is something in a .308 an option?

Of the two little rifles I'd take the AR.


I agree about the 308, but would have to go with the AK out of the 2 options you allowed.
Link Posted: 3/5/2008 4:49:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:


What he said!


FWIW, I went the G3 route, but I also have an AK for the smaller-statured members of the family. I don't have an issue with the AR itself, but I have serious issues with the 5.56 round. I don't use varmint rifles to hunt medium-to-big game, so why would I use a varmint cartridge for SHTF personal defense?
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