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Posted: 7/15/2008 5:50:48 AM EDT
Mine is a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the following:

-5.3 Engine
-4x4
-Crewcab
-Auxilary gas tank (68 gallons)
-Front winch (2,500 pounds)
-Camper with basket on top for 350 pounds
-A/T tires with remote pressure gauge
-2 full spares
-1 high jack
-2 shovels
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 7:37:46 AM EDT
Nice truck. It should treat you nicely. I especially like the extra fuel tank.

One Critque: A 2500# winch is an ATV winch. Not nearly big enough for your truck. You want something in the 9-10k range for a Full sized pickup. General rule of thumb is that you want twice your vehicles weight.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:18:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 8:18:39 AM EDT by dyma82]
height=8
ASUsax said:

Nice truck. It should treat you nicely. I especially like the extra fuel tank.

One Critque: A 2500# winch is an ATV winch. Not nearly big enough for your truck. You want something in the 9-10k range for a Full sized pickup. General rule of thumb is that you want twice your vehicles weight.


Yes, I know the 2500# winch is way underpowered, but it is still a great help when you get stuck in the mud. It beats 3 guys pushing. So far, it has work perfectly the 2 occasions I got stuck in the mud. Anyways, it is not like it will pull a totally dead truck. The truck will always work hard together with the winch.

I am planning on buying a better winch in the future.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:48:07 AM EDT
what the vehicle should be depends on where your bug out location is.

68 gallon SECONDARY? Good Lord...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:15:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dyma82:

ASUsax said:

Nice truck. It should treat you nicely. I especially like the extra fuel tank.

One Critque: A 2500# winch is an ATV winch. Not nearly big enough for your truck. You want something in the 9-10k range for a Full sized pickup. General rule of thumb is that you want twice your vehicles weight.


Yes, I know the 2500# winch is way underpowered, but it is still a great help when you get stuck in the mud. It beats 3 guys pushing. So far, it has work perfectly the 2 occasions I got stuck in the mud. Anyways, it is not like it will pull a totally dead truck. The truck will always work hard together with the winch.

I am planning on buying a better winch in the future.




If a 2500# winch pulled out a full sized truck you weren't stuck. I've bogged a 9000# Warn down before trying to free one of my dumbass friends (I used the snatch block and got him out after I made him get all dirty digging )

Whatever you do, make sure you study up on proper vehicle recovery techniques (including winch care and maintenance) - a winch can be extremely dangerous (deadly) if used improperly. I've seen far too many people who buy one and automatically assume they know how to use it. Make sure you have the proper accessories for it too. Warn used to have a very good manual on different techniques that was worth the read. They have a basic guide at the bottom of this page

All that said, any vehicle that will reliably get you and your gear to where you need to be should work- the more fuel efficient the better. Depending on where you are, there are fewer and fewer places where a 4wd is needed.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:26:39 AM EDT
height=8
Mr Trooper said:
what the vehicle should be depends on where your bug out location is.

68 gallon SECONDARY? Good Lord...


Is it too little or too much?

68 + 24(truck gas tank) = 92 Gallons

Driving conservatively it will average 19 mpg. That give me a range of ~1,750 miles without refueling. I can easily get from Miami to anywhere in Tennessee and still have fuel to spare.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:35:50 AM EDT
height=8
Sandboxmedic said:

If a 2500# winch pulled out a full sized truck you weren't stuck. I've bogged a 9000# Warn down before trying to free one of my dumbass friends (I used the snatch block and got him out after I made him get all dirty digging )

Whatever you do, make sure you study up on proper vehicle recovery techniques (including winch care and maintenance) - a winch can be extremely dangerous (deadly) if used improperly. I've seen far too many people who buy one and automatically assume they know how to use it. Make sure you have the proper accessories for it too. Warn used to have a very good manual on different techniques that was worth the read. They have a basic guide at the bottom of this page

All that said, any vehicle that will reliably get you and your gear to where you need to be should work- the more fuel efficient the better. Depending on where you are, there are fewer and fewer places where a 4wd is needed.


Yes, you are right. I just watched a bunch of youtube videos on off-roading and I came to the sudden realization that I really haven’t got stuck.

I am definitely upgrading the winch.

Question: Isn’t it bad to put that much weight so far after the front suspension?
Those heavy-duty winches are quite heavy.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:40:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:40:57 AM EDT by OKshooterHRS]







Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:56:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dyma82:

Sandboxmedic said:

If a 2500# winch pulled out a full sized truck you weren't stuck. I've bogged a 9000# Warn down before trying to free one of my dumbass friends (I used the snatch block and got him out after I made him get all dirty digging )

Whatever you do, make sure you study up on proper vehicle recovery techniques (including winch care and maintenance) - a winch can be extremely dangerous (deadly) if used improperly. I've seen far too many people who buy one and automatically assume they know how to use it. Make sure you have the proper accessories for it too. Warn used to have a very good manual on different techniques that was worth the read. They have a basic guide at the bottom of this page

All that said, any vehicle that will reliably get you and your gear to where you need to be should work- the more fuel efficient the better. Depending on where you are, there are fewer and fewer places where a 4wd is needed.


Yes, you are right. I just watched a bunch of youtube videos on off-roading and I came to the sudden realization that I really haven’t got stuck.

I am definitely upgrading the winch.

Question: Isn’t it bad to put that much weight so far after the front suspension?
Those heavy-duty winches are quite heavy.


Yeah, you probably weren't stuck down in, just couldn't get traction. It gets slippery, for lack of a better term. I have that problem at times, the tires I have aren't too hot in mud. (Doesn't usually matter, Mud is a rarity in Az)

So the winch pulled you out, since you were basically just sliding along.

As for weight, it really isn't that much. Most winches of the size you're looking for are about 100lbs. You may get some sagging up front (since the springs are loaded more than they used to be) but it shouldn't be much.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:19:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 4:20:56 PM EDT by XM21Nick]
I've got that same truck. Yea it's a decent BOV but not a serious off road machine. If it's the 1/2 ton model it suffers from lack of ground clearance,no skid plates,weak axles. It did work good though after Wilma passed over.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:33:09 PM EDT
There's a good chance you'll need to upgrade your suspension- the weight of the winch is cantilevered out past the front wheels so it will usually be noticeable. Winch usually add around 100# and depending on your front bumper or winch mounting setup that can add anywhere from say 30# on up (ARB bumpers weigh around 100#).

Always make sure you wear leather gloves, and get yourself a snatch block and several load rated clevis', a tree saver strap (never wrap cable around a tree or hook it back on itself), etc. Make sure you have load rated attachment points on your vehicle and any vehicle you pull- I have seen one of those cheapy hooks let loose under load. Carry an old blanket or something else to throw over the cable while pulling if you are using wire rope (synthetic doesn't snap back); I usually wrap my 30' tow strap loosely around the cable then spread it out.

Honestly, a tow strap and a second vehicle is usually faster and easier and a long handled shovel and a Hi-Lift will get you out of most stucks if you learn to use them.


Sounds like you're thinking ahead though. That's a lot of fuel to carry- that would definitely come in handy in those long evacuation lines that were in that thread on Rita and Katrina! I wish I had the capacity to carry more fuel on board, but the Tacomas aren't set up for it. I'll have to depend on 5gal NATO cans.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:00:24 PM EDT
I'll second the upgraded suspension. With the wieght of the extra fuel and the winch on the front you need to think about a lift. Unfortunately any IFS lift gets spendy very quickly. Especially Chevy's, ask my why I know. That being said, there are numerous options open to you with a lift. I might have missed it but how is your winch (soon to be upgraded winch) going to be fastened to your vehicle? You might want to think about a new front bumper? I know I am talking major money but in the long run it is worth it. Oh and it looks really tacticooooool.

At a minimum you can look at cranking the torsion bars a bit to try to level out the front. Just be aware that any time you alter the torsion bars you can (and most likely will) change your toe in/camber and will need an alignment. Your IFS suspension has "keys" that can be changed to help. Do a little search on Ford F150 keys and Chevy suspension. You might like it.

Also, you mentioned a high lift jack but didn't mention any extra rocker armor. If you plan on using the high lift as a jack, make sure you have some decent rocker protection because it ain't going to fit where the stock jack is supposed to go. (if I am preaching to the choir, sorry.)

Good luck with your truck, sounds like you are on a great start.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 6:36:55 AM EDT
height=8
Tipsovr said:

I'll second the upgraded suspension. With the wieght of the extra fuel and the winch on the front you need to think about a lift. Unfortunately any IFS lift gets spendy very quickly. Especially Chevy's, ask my why I know. That being said, there are numerous options open to you with a lift. I might have missed it but how is your winch (soon to be upgraded winch) going to be fastened to your vehicle? You might want to think about a new front bumper? I know I am talking major money but in the long run it is worth it. Oh and it looks really tacticooooool.

At a minimum you can look at cranking the torsion bars a bit to try to level out the front. Just be aware that any time you alter the torsion bars you can (and most likely will) change your toe in/camber and will need an alignment. Your IFS suspension has "keys" that can be changed to help. Do a little search on Ford F150 keys and Chevy suspension. You might like it.

Also, you mentioned a high lift jack but didn't mention any extra rocker armor. If you plan on using the high lift as a jack, make sure you have some decent rocker protection because it ain't going to fit where the stock jack is supposed to go. (if I am preaching to the choir, sorry.)

Good luck with your truck, sounds like you are on a great start.


IFS = ???

Yes, I agree with your suggestion. My idea for the new winch is to also install a whole new bumper with the proper mounting.

My Chevy has a very nice ground clearance. In the past they used to be very low (almost a low-rider), but mine (2007) came quite lifted from factory. Maybe it is because it is 4x4?. My wife is always complaining on how difficult it is to climb on.

Extra rocker armor seems like a good idea. I haven't used the high lift jack yet, but my idea was to use it on the standard jack places. I just realize it wouldn't be that easy.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 7:02:23 AM EDT
Sounds like a huge bomb.

A good BOV has 4x4, good gas mileage, dependable, and can be properly operated by the owner.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 7:12:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dyma82:

Tipsovr said:

I'll second the upgraded suspension. With the wieght of the extra fuel and the winch on the front you need to think about a lift. Unfortunately any IFS lift gets spendy very quickly. Especially Chevy's, ask my why I know. That being said, there are numerous options open to you with a lift. I might have missed it but how is your winch (soon to be upgraded winch) going to be fastened to your vehicle? You might want to think about a new front bumper? I know I am talking major money but in the long run it is worth it. Oh and it looks really tacticooooool.

At a minimum you can look at cranking the torsion bars a bit to try to level out the front. Just be aware that any time you alter the torsion bars you can (and most likely will) change your toe in/camber and will need an alignment. Your IFS suspension has "keys" that can be changed to help. Do a little search on Ford F150 keys and Chevy suspension. You might like it.

Also, you mentioned a high lift jack but didn't mention any extra rocker armor. If you plan on using the high lift as a jack, make sure you have some decent rocker protection because it ain't going to fit where the stock jack is supposed to go. (if I am preaching to the choir, sorry.)

Good luck with your truck, sounds like you are on a great start.


IFS = ???

Yes, I agree with your suggestion. My idea for the new winch is to also install a whole new bumper with the proper mounting.

My Chevy has a very nice ground clearance. In the past they used to be very low (almost a low-rider), but mine (2007) came quite lifted from factory. Maybe it is because it is 4x4?. My wife is always complaining on how difficult it is to climb on.

Extra rocker armor seems like a good idea. I haven't used the high lift jack yet, but my idea was to use it on the standard jack places. I just realize it wouldn't be that easy.


IFS is Independent Front Suspension. NOT a solid axle. They're much more difficult to lift than solid axles, and you don't get the same kind of 'flex' out of them that you get out of a solid axle. They're also weaker, have more moving parts... The only good thing about them is they deliver that soft, cushy, on-road ride that people seem to want. In every other way, they're inferior.

Unfortunately, that 'ride' quality means that damn near every new vehicle has IFS.

You won't be looking at much sag, IMO. (You won't really know 'till you do it, of course) Especially if you've got that extra tank in back, that'll be sagging your rear suspension. As long as it's even, it'll look OK. They do make leveling kits that aren't too expensive. They're lifts, but they're so small that they don't require making the extensive modifications that other IFS lifts do, basically because you are supposed to still be within the 'stock' range of movement.

The biggest problem with any Truck isn't ground clearance, per se, but rather breakover angle. The long wheelbase means that you tend to ground out when you go over things, even relatively small ones. It's true of any truck, and the longer they are, the worse it is. Pickups also tend to have pretty poor departure angles (the angle from the end of the bumper to the base of the wheels) as well, but IMO Breakover angle is the real problem.

As for Rocker protection, and any other underbody protection, do your research. Alot of this stuff is for looks. You need something that provides real protection, that's solid and bolted solidly to the frame in multiple places. Especially if you're going to use it with a high lift. And be careful with those high lifts. They're nice tools, but they can bite you if you aren't really careful, they're far more unstable than a normal jack.

I am a big, huge actually, proponent of underbody protection. My Jeep isn't lifted as high as most, but it'll go places that most others won't go, because I've got more steel hanging off the bottom of that thing that almost anybody. A hole in an oil pan, differential, tranny, fuel tank... Well, that'll ruin your day right there. So protect everything underneath that needs protecting. You want to have stuff down there that's so stout that you hit something - HARD - and can't even figure out what you hit, 'cause it didn't even put a dent in whatever it was.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 8:42:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 8:45:08 AM EDT by dyma82]
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hssOp said:
Sounds like a huge bomb.


It doesn't sound like a bomb. It is one. That has been a very serious point of worry. I already tried to trade it and get a Dodge RAM diesel, but dealers down here are not taking in any V8 for trading. he

The auxiliary tank was custom made and the upper part is a tool box. I have it empty all the time, but it is nice to know that if SHTF takes place I have the possibility to use it.

height=8
A good BOV has 4x4, good gas mileage, dependable, and can be properly operated by the owner.


I agree, but when you add some other parameter to the equation the whole perspective change a bit.

Initially I thought about something like a Toyota FJ, or a Toyota Tacoma Ext cab v6 both 4x4. Then I came to the realization that:

They have very limited cargo space and capacity (Both by volume and weight).
They have a limited range and more fuel would eat up cargo capacity pretty fast.

Just this paradox will tip the balance toward full size pickups.

Just considering weight and assuming you are shooting at complete autonomy all the way to your destination + a possible extended stay. (in my case some where on the West side of the Appalachian Mountains) I am looking at these essentials:

- Weapons + Ammo -- ~200#
- Fuel ------------------- 400#
- Water ----------------- 500#
- Food ------------------ 500#
- Tools & equipment - ~500#

These total: 2,100 pounds

That is way over what my truck can carry. Right now I am trying to figure out how to come up with the most educated and efficient arrangement.

Keep in mind that my preparations are not for temporary, local SHTF events. For those events I would just drive out and stay in a hotel until the whole thing is over. My preps are toward global SHTF events; the kind that causes society and government to collapse for a considerably long period of time.

So far, my plan A is to wait for a bit to try to trade my Chevy for a Dodge RAM 2500 diesel. Most of my current mods are transferable. Plan B = stay with this truck and try to prep it as well as possible.

Lastly, the most critical element for a BOV down here (Miami) is information. If you don’t get the heads up before they are public you are screwed. As soon as the SHTF news are made public and everybody tries to flee, you will be stuck in the biggest traffic jam in history. Thus, my second BOV doesn’t have wheels (Boat). You won’t have a traffic jam in the water…
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:17:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dyma82:
These would be my idea for a perfect BOV. 90 days total autonomy from factory.

But I don't have that kind of money.

http://earthroamer.com/

earthroamer.com/galleries/xv-ltexterior/crw_0109_std_std.jpg

earthroamer.com/galleries/xv-jp_first_photos/img_9414_master_std.jpg

earthroamer.com/galleries/xv-ltexterior/crw_0137_std_std.jpg

earthroamer.com/galleries/xv-jp_first_photos/img_0321_letter%20size_std.jpg


I like the jeep
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:26:43 AM EDT
You can buy a "slide in truck camper" (aka cabover camper) for your truck. They even make ones that pop up so that there is minimal wind resistance and weight. Prices vary, but they are way less than 200k and they come out so you can still use your truck for a truck, too.

www.lancecamper.com/home/index.html

www.palominorv.com/palomino/site/default.asp?page=truckcampers

www.northstarcampers.com/

Those links will get you started. Some of the other advantages to these is that you can still tow a boat or trailer, they don't need plates/registration, and many of them can be used when they are off of the truck.

David
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 2:46:45 PM EDT
Having studied to be a racecar engineer, worked in the trade my entire life and trekked around this world a bit I strongly recommend the simple, maintainable, scroungable approach. Simple, robust equipment should not break and, if it does should be easily repairable. My last 700 mile jungle hunting trip four of us went in a packed Toyota 4-runner double-cab pickup that was 10 years old. One of the expedition vehicles was a stock '67 Toyota land Cruiser celebrating its 40th birthday. Likewise Land Rovers will make the grade and well looked after old-model CJ5/7s.

Diesel engines are very fuel sensitive (important if you are scrounging) as are fuel-injected petrol engines. Low compression straight sixes will run on paraffin in a pinch. Mercedes G-wagons have that level of performance but much worse parts supply, same with Unimogs.

Before buying a vehicle for bug-out, find the national 4WD population list and pick a carbureted gas engine model from that, you'll find parts when you need them either new or used.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 2:58:30 PM EDT
Exactly why I picked a Fullsize 79 Bronco. Lots of room, no hi-tech, easy to find parts, easy to repair, dependable, and enough power to get you out of any kind of trouble.



Link Posted: 7/19/2008 4:45:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 5:18:00 AM EDT by Monkey-man]
Forgot to add, if you start with a decent 4WD vehicle there are only five simple upgrades you will really NEED.

1. Decent tyres, preferably the same size as intended by the manufacturer but with off-road ability.
2. Locking front and rear diffs, preferably simple mechanical ones like Detroit Lockers.
3. Very sturdy front and rear bumpers.
4. A winch secured inside the vehicle that can be hastily bolted to the front or rear bumpers only when you need them. Obviously, wiring and plugs will need to be in place in advance.
5. Snorkels for engine intake, rear axle, front axle and transmission breathers.

Any changes you make to the manufacturers' specifications will start a cascade effect. For instance, changing wheel size changes gearing and requires new CWPs. It also requires raising the suspension; this then changes the front axle castor angle and increases the UJ operating angles, screws the roll-centers etc., etc., etc.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 6:34:44 AM EDT
I'd learn how to use that hi lift jack to winch yourself out of trouble instead of the 2500 lb. warn. You'll eventually end up ruining it. There are a few good tutorials on You tube if you're interested.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:58:37 AM EDT
I told the wife I ordered an Earthroamer (jokingly of course)...after i showed her the website she relpies..."we should look into that"

Found one on Ebay for $155k. Anyone have an idea what they run brand new? From what i read on a couple sites there is a waiting list on new builds.

For fun I'm gonna look into it and see how far I can take it until she finally tells me no. I'm sure as soon as brochures start showing up or a salesman calls I'll get "the look".
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:57:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By maynard_01:
I told the wife I ordered an Earthroamer (jokingly of course)...after i showed her the website she relpies..."we should look into that"

Found one on Ebay for $155k. Anyone have an idea what they run brand new? From what i read on a couple sites there is a waiting list on new builds.

For fun I'm gonna look into it and see how far I can take it until she finally tells me no. I'm sure as soon as brochures start showing up or a salesman calls I'll get "the look".


The website F-550 Pricing states between $200k and $230k for the badboy.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:32:13 PM EDT
"- Water ----------------- 500#"

Get a revesre osmosis water processing system [less than $100, see my posts on it] and have all the water you want without having to carry 500#.

500#, that's nuts.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 4:37:11 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
"- Water ----------------- 500#"

Get a revesre osmosis water processing system [less than $100, see my posts on it] and have all the water you want without having to carry 500#.

500#, that's nuts.have
Yes, little.

500 pounds of water = 60 gallons
1 person needs to drink ~0.5 gallons daily, so my family needs 1.5 gallons daily.

So this 500 pounds of water translates into a 40 days reserve. Too short, but....
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