Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/29/2009 11:59:07 AM EST
I have 5 acres and the tower that I will be putting up will be set beck from the house. From the ham shack to the tower it will be about 1000 feet in distance. What type/model/brand of cable would I need to get that I will not loose performance for 2m/440.

As a side note what cable would be good as well for HF at the same 1000 foot distance.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:02:14 PM EST
I would look at the larger heliax that is out there. Watch ebay for decent prices on the cable and connectors. It's to bad you can install a radio at the base of the tower and remotely control it from the house.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:02:34 PM EST
how come your mounting the tower that far away?
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:05:46 PM EST
Yikes! Even with the 1/2" heliax you are going to lose 8dB at 1000ft on 2M. Looks like the 1 1/4" stuff would be better with a 3dB loss.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:06:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By mylt1:
how come your mounting the tower that far away?


My guess is that he has a wife like mine who doesn't want to look at it :) If I had the land and money I would put something away from the house. However I would try to find a way to remotely control the radios so that the coax runs weren't so long.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:12:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Originally Posted By mylt1:
how come your mounting the tower that far away?


My guess is that he has a wife like mine who doesn't want to look at it :) If I had the land and money I would put something away from the house. However I would try to find a way to remotely control the radios so that the coax runs weren't so long.


if she doesnt like the look i would put the 2m/70c antenna up in the attic or buy one of the antennas that looks like a vent pipe and mount to the roof. HF would be a slightly different story but by the time he runs that much cable ill be putting out more power with my IC-V8 then he will be delivering to that antenna.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:19:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By mylt1:
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Originally Posted By mylt1:
how come your mounting the tower that far away?


My guess is that he has a wife like mine who doesn't want to look at it :) If I had the land and money I would put something away from the house. However I would try to find a way to remotely control the radios so that the coax runs weren't so long.


if she doesnt like the look i would put the 2m/70c antenna up in the attic or buy one of the antennas that looks like a vent pipe and mount to the roof. HF would be a slightly different story but by the time he runs that much cable ill be putting out more power with my IC-V8 then he will be delivering to that antenna.


If he's willing to spend money on 1000ft coax runs I'm betting that he's also putting up a tower and antenna that would be far more effective than a ventenna. Then again I could be making far to many assumptions.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 12:35:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Originally Posted By mylt1:
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Originally Posted By mylt1:
how come your mounting the tower that far away?


My guess is that he has a wife like mine who doesn't want to look at it :) If I had the land and money I would put something away from the house. However I would try to find a way to remotely control the radios so that the coax runs weren't so long.


if she doesnt like the look i would put the 2m/70c antenna up in the attic or buy one of the antennas that looks like a vent pipe and mount to the roof. HF would be a slightly different story but by the time he runs that much cable ill be putting out more power with my IC-V8 then he will be delivering to that antenna.


If he's willing to spend money on 1000ft coax runs I'm betting that he's also putting up a tower and antenna that would be far more effective than a ventenna. Then again I could be making far to many assumptions.


thats true. towers and enough coax to run to it and up it aint cheap.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 1:40:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2009 1:43:55 PM EST by kcolg30]
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Originally Posted By mylt1:
how come your mounting the tower that far away?


My guess is that he has a wife like mine who doesn't want to look at it :) If I had the land and money I would put something away from the house. However I would try to find a way to remotely control the radios so that the coax runs weren't so long.


Bingo....

The tower will be about 80' to 100' in height and I would need the extra room for the guy wires. I would prefer it attached to the house using a crank up but, the only way I will be able to get it to the height that I want would be to off set it in the middle of the field.

Dam coax run for one ANT is going to cost me as much as my TS-2000...

ETA: The top of the tower will house the antenna for HF @ 80' or 100' (depending on the tower that I choose) and I plan on getting side stand off arms to mount the 2m/440 @ 60'.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 1:59:40 PM EST
Probably remote controlling would make a LOT more sense.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:05:34 PM EST
Or feeding a low level signal and then amplifying it at the antenna + an auto antenna tuner.

Same thing for reception, a remote preselected amplifier and cheap coax back to the house.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:07:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Yikes! Even with the 1/2" heliax you are going to lose 8dB at 1000ft on 2M. Looks like the 1 1/4" stuff would be better with a 3dB loss.



losses will be even higher on 440Mhz
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:11:07 PM EST
"Dam coax run for one ANT is going to cost me as much as my TS-2000..."


Plus, maintainance.....

Had a TriEx 55' behind the house in the 70's with VHF and TV on it. Lots of fun but a lot of maintainance from time to time.

Remoted the TV antenna downconverter with one of those stand alone tuners with a remote box in the days before TV remote controls. Put it in a waterproof box at the base. Worked fine.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:12:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Derek45:
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Yikes! Even with the 1/2" heliax you are going to lose 8dB at 1000ft on 2M. Looks like the 1 1/4" stuff would be better with a 3dB loss.



losses will be even higher on 440Mhz


Just get a mobile w/ a remote head and work on extending the distance.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:17:10 PM EST
Maybe think about a tower mounted amp/pre-amp for the UHF/VHF antenna. This would allow you to run less expensive cable to the shack. Not cheap mind you, but cheaper than 1 1/4 inch Heliax. You may try calling some cellular companies and see if they have any Heliax that has been taken down from existing towers.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:18:41 PM EST
It might be cheaper to build a hamshack at the base of the tower than it will be to purchase enough high grade cable and connectors to do a run like that without having massive loss.

A better solution is to re-educate wife on the importance of Amateur Radio and how it is essential for your preps so that when Obammy blows up the country, you'll have comms to monitor the gangs of roving Mutant Zombie Bikers that are out looking for flesh to consume.














Just sayin'....
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:51:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2009 2:53:28 PM EST by K5JMP]
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Maybe think about a tower mounted amp/pre-amp for the UHF/VHF antenna. This would allow you to run less expensive cable to the shack. Not cheap mind you, but cheaper than 1 1/4 inch Heliax. You may try calling some cellular companies and see if they have any Heliax that has been taken down from existing towers.


this is the ticket right here.
You can make a single run out to the tower and use a diplexer to split off the different signals by band and go from there.
I have 3 runs about 200' out to my tower of Andrew 1-5/8" heliax. I got it from a local tower company when they serviced a local cell site. It did not cost me a single dime. All I had to buy was connectors.
You may have issues finding a piece that is 1000' for free. But you can always use a splice kit from Andrew to make one long run. Just be sure you TDR the line and check for water...
There are bound to be some local hams who work in the tower industry... ask them who to contact about used line. Or, if you know any broadcasters you can ask them about surplus line... line removed when an STL dish was removed... or even 2-way companies when they have line replaced. The cell-co route is usually the best though.

Good luck to ya...
73 de K5JMP

Quick question for KB7DX.. your call sounds VERY famaliar.... do you ever work 6m? I have a stacked phased array and can usually get into AZ pretty easily when the band is open.... just curious...
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 2:58:30 PM EST
Cripes, I was just bitching earlier today about the cost of 50ft of 9913 with N connectors on each end.

I think I'll shut my trap and count my blessings

Good luck! I think I can speak for the forum in that we'd love to see pics of your tower project when the time comes.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 3:35:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Probably remote controlling would make a LOT more sense.


This
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 3:37:17 PM EST
Wow a 10 grand project. Please post pics when done of entire install.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 2:31:29 AM EST
Pics will be posted of the tower setup in less than six months from now once I get everything in place. The hole is done. It is 6x6x6. That should be enough concrete and rebar to hold it up...

As far as asking cell companies about old cables.....I was able to aquire some old Belden 9913 which was used on the old 800mhz cell system. The funny thing is that I thought 9913 was used only for VHF and UHF (144/440) and not on the 800mhz band.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:39:54 AM EST
would losing the wife be an option?

might end up much cheaper in the end....

or move a mobile home under the antenna and you move there w/the radio...
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:02:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 4:02:49 AM EST by K5JMP]
Originally Posted By FlatlinesUp:
would losing the wife be an option?
might end up much cheaper in the end....

or move a mobile home under the antenna and you move there w/the radio...


yeah, my wifey used to give me a lot of greif over contesting.... but that issue got solved back in June...
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:12:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Probably remote controlling would make a LOT more sense.


+1

I did this myself (although I didn't have to, my coax run is only about 60ft and would have been even less to my office). I wanted a "minimalist" install my office and the ability to move my radio around the house if I desired. What I ended up doing is installing an FT-8800R in my basement and the remote head and speaker in my office. The remote head is extended via an existing run of Cat-5e to my office with a few, simple, straight-through RJ-25 cables (6-pin, one cable even comes the remote mount kit although I made my own). The speaker also runs over the Cat-5e Ethernet cable using a few Cat-5e to RCA adapters. This solution works great and was easy and inexpensive to do. The best part is, my radio, power supply, coax runs, etc are all in a single location in my house yet I can easily move the radio anywhere I like with a few simple adapters.

If you have a location near your tower where you can install your radio and power supply that is close enough to support the "remote mount via Cat-5e (or similar)", this is going to be your easiest, fastest and cheapest option.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:49:02 AM EST
K5JMP- I'm not on 6m.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 11:15:29 AM EST
1-5/8" but I still wouldn't want my run that long.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 2:23:17 PM EST
Put the TS-2K @ the base, and buy a DM-710A.

Sky command FTW.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 2:38:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 2:45:45 PM EST by Gamma762]
1000' for 2m/440? Forget it. Look into remote base setups. Better yet put the tower somewhere reasonable.

http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl
Here's a line loss calculator for Times-Microwave cables. As an example, LMR-400 which would be a common high performance cable for amateur radio, at 446MHz would be 27dB loss for 1000' for 0.2% efficiency. Probably have better reception from a dummy load on the back of the radio.

Now if you were to go down to 80m or 40m (3.5/7MHz) bands on HF, 1000' of LMR-400 isn't so bad.

Times' largest cable would give you similar performance on 2m at 1000', at a list price of $15 per foot. So tell your wife if she can come up with the $15,000 + truck freight and installation for the cable that you'll put the tower 1000' away.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:13:15 PM EST
As I mentioned before, the tower hole has been dug up. If I was to abandon that hole and move it to another location say 300 to 500 feet of cable run, will the LMR-400 be the right cable. or is there something better.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:38:52 PM EST
I really don't think you're grasping the situation. Any "remote" tower location is going to be impractical for 2m/440 unless you go to the trouble and expense of using a remote base setup. The difference between 1000' and 500 feet is that you exchange that $15,000 cable run for a $7500 one. Ok, you could go with a step or two down in cable and decrease your cost to $2k-$5k. Something tells me thats not what you have in mind.

Cost goes up or performance goes down almost logarithmically as you increase distance to the tower. It's really a severe disadvantage that you're putting on your operations right off the bat.

How tall is this tower? What all are you expecting to run? You'd be better off with something like an attic mounted antenna than a 50' or 70' tower 500 feet away from your shack.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:39:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By odontia32m:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Probably remote controlling would make a LOT more sense.


This


I would look at this option as well. You could buy all the new radios and gadgets needed for the same price as if you ran 1000' of hardline.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:13:05 PM EST
What you could do is build a little hut with electricity and internet, and control the station over Skype with some plugin I don't remember... (was it HRD?)
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:49:31 PM EST
SCREW THAT!!!! Build yourself a 'man cave' at the base of that tower. Shipping container or a steel shed (think RF shielding) would be great. OR a 'storm shelter'. Running power lines 1000' would be ALOT cheaper than running hardline. And more effective. Spend the rest of the cash on a 4 wheeler to get from the house to the ham shack.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:49:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By phlat:
SCREW THAT!!!! Build yourself a 'man cave' at the base of that tower. Shipping container or a steel shed (think RF shielding) would be great. OR a 'storm shelter'. Running power lines 1000' would be ALOT cheaper than running hardline. And more effective. Spend the rest of the cash on a 4 wheeler to get from the house to the ham shack.


This for the win....plus solves the wife problem without actually getting rid of her.
Top Top