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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 4/13/2016 10:46:50 AM EDT
My new place has a 400 ft + well and hard 160 water. Best I can tell the well was dug in 1996 ish. First time owning a house with a water well.

Any advice on upkeep\maintenance and possibly filtration? I know when things go wrong it can get $$$ especially that far down there.

Before we got the house we had it tested for bacteria and the well tested positive for bacteria but was a normal result due to it not being run with the owner absent most of the time. The owner cleared it up with some chlorine and results were negative when we closed.

Thought I'd open this up as a general well thread as well

Here's a link to a DS, EC and Temperature Meter I got for $24. Tested distilled water at 0 then the house water.

Here's a well pump that was replaced at my grandma's house 2013. $2,000 ish to pull and replace the pump. Best I can tell it was made in 1978.

Called a well drilling company about an inspection. He said: "Looking down the pipe and trying to figure out how good a well is is like looking up a cows ass and trying to figure out how good the steaks are."






Link Posted: 4/13/2016 11:10:34 AM EDT
Use the biggest pressure tank, or tanks that you can to reduce starting/stopping of the well. It doesn't mind running, starting and stopping all the time are hard on them.

If you have a box with a starting capacitor, get a spare. You may not, most are built into the well head now.

Softeners are great, they don't help the well, but the plumbing and your skin. You want soft water. Have your water lab tested to see what you need to filter for.
Link Posted: 4/13/2016 1:21:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2016 1:24:53 PM EDT by razerface]
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.
Link Posted: 4/13/2016 5:54:57 PM EDT
Don't go the cheap route on the pump! Buy once cry once been there done that and got several of the T shirts. I asked well and pump people the last time mine quit and they all informed me to go double on the pump. When it was drilled they installed a 3/4hp 8 stage it lasted 2 years, they came back and installed a 1hp 12 stage and it went 2 years. Then I replaced the third myself 1hp and 12 stage same results 2 years, so the last time I went with a 2hp 22 stage that was 1K just for the pump.

That was 4 years ago and I still have 72lbs of pressure with a 125gal tank also my cycle time was cut in half and also noticed on my electric bill it fell off some. I do shock my well at least once a year, I do use filters charcoal and extra fine sediment after it leaves the tank.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 8:42:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 8:48:12 PM EDT by MongoCaver]
OP,

I am not a well pro, just a guy who has had to work on them since I was a boy, about 45 years or so.

If I was you, I would get a pressure gauge like the one at the following link:


If you have a hose tap near your well tank, you can use this gauge to verify that your well is cutting in and out at the right pressures. If you don't have a tap at your well, it can be hooked to one of your outside hose taps on your house for the same purpose. If you already have a pressure gauge installed, you can verify that it is still accurate with the new gauge as well. Quite often with the constant movement a well pressure gauge tracks, it becomes inaccurate. With your new gauge you will only use it when you need it, so it doesn't wear out and will always be available when you need it.

Once you have a pressure gauge of some kind installed, there is also something else you can check. Make sure that all faucets are cut off with no drips, no sprinklers are running, toilets aren't filling etc. While you watch the gauge have someone run water until the pump kicks in and starts pumping the pressure up. Then have them shut off the water they are running. The pressure will build until it reaches the cutoff point and the pump will stop. Make a mental note of the pressure on the gauge. Now, lean back and fantasize about the new tools you want to buy, or maybe about getting chickens or goats to raise. After 10 minutes check the gauge. Has the pressure bled off? One pound or so is not uncommon as pressures equalize throughout the system.. More than that and you have a leak. Sit and watch it another 10 minutes one way or another. If you have a leak, you can tell how serious it is by how fast it drops. Leaks cost you money by making the pump run more often using electricity and wearing the pump out sooner.

If you have a leak, it could be anywhere. Try to isolate by turning off the water valve to the house if one is installed. If your leak stops, you know it is in the house. If it is in the house, it could be a toilet in the house leaking past the tank seal. Put a little food color in the tank and watch to see if it gets into the bowl on its own. Or it could be somewhere else. I have seen pin hole leaks in pipes in walls that ran for years, with the water running under the house foundation.

If it is not in the house, it could be the equipment. It could be as simple as the back flow preventer between the pump and the tank leaking, assuming one is installed. If one is not installed, it could be the backflow preventer in the pump leaking. It could also be a leak in the pipe going down the well to the pump. Probably time to call in a pro if you aren't super familiar with this stuff.

Another thing that is great to have if you have access is to check and see how many amps your well is using. At later dates this info can come in handy if your well is acting up. You would need to borrow a meter with the capability to measure amps going through a wire by clamping around it. All clamp meters will be able to give you a reading on how many amps are being used when the pump is running, and some of the better ones can give you starting amps too. This info is invaluable if you ever plan to run your well pump on a backup generator when the power goes out.

As for maintenance. Every 6 months, when the time changes, you need to check the air pressure in the water storage/pressure tank. Now days the tank is a metal shell with either a heavy vinyl balloon in it that the water flows into, or a rubber coated interior with a rubber diaphragm stretched across the middle. In either case a pressure valve like on tires should be located on the tank, normally on top. Depending on the pressure your pump cuts in, you will need to adjust pressure using this valve. First you will shut off power to the system and open a faucet or hose tap somewhere until the water pressure has gone to zero. Then open the nearest hose tap or faucet to the tank. You will use a quality tire pressure gauge to check the pressure and add pressure as needed. Lets say your pump cuts in at 40psi and cuts off at 60psi like mine. Most tank manufacturers seem to say set it 2 pounds below the cut in pressure, so you would set it at 38psi. If your cut in pressure is 30psi and your cut out is 50psi, then you would set the tank pressure at 28psi.

If your pump seems to be cycling a lot, and you aren't running a whole lot of water, then either you need to add pressure, or you have a blown bladder/diaphragm in the tank. If the bladder/diaphragm is blown, sometimes you will get lots of water out of the valve stem when you go to check it. Sometimes you won't get water out of it and you still have a rupture.

Sorry if this was too much info. It is 1/10th of what I have learned about wells, but maybe it will help. YMMV

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:00:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
OP,



Sorry if this was too much info. It is 1/10th of what I have learned about wells, but maybe it will help. YMMV


View Quote

No, this is great. Any further info for the archive\health of this thread is welcome. Wanted to keep this as a good resource thread about wells for anyone to google\search ar15.com.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:00:17 PM EDT
Ok, well the wife is out of town, I am sitting here bored, so here goes.

I mentioned that the bladder or diaphragm in the tank could rupture and cause problems. The bladder or diaphragm is there to maintain air in the tank.

In the old, old days tanks were just a hollow metal shell. When you fired up your pump water would pressure up the tank and air would be trapped in the top of the tank. The air would compress and provide pressure for when the pump cut off. Water doesn't really compress well, so without the air, there would be very little pressure on the tank. As you drained the tank the air would mix with the water in very small amounts and escape. When you don't have air to provide pressure, the pump has to run more often to provide it. Eventually you would have to shut the power down to the pump, drain the tank and allow it to fill back up with air. Then crank her back up and start all over again.

In the more recent old days somebody got smart and added a tire pressure valve to the top of the tank so that you could put more air in when the air mixed with the water and escaped. This system worked well for years, but of course somebody always has a better way to skin a cat.

Today the tank has a balloon/bladder that fills with water and is surrounded by captive air in the tank, or the bottom part of the tank has rubber on the walls and a big rubber diaphragm is secured across the tank, somewhere around the middle or higher, creating captive air above the diaphragm. Both of these type tanks prevent water and air from being mixed together. The tire valve is still there because you do have some air leakage through the bladder or diaphragm, but not like in the old days, so your intervals that you need to put in air are farther apart.

The problem with todays tanks is when the bladders or diaphragm fail, they cause more problems than you would think. First of all, if the bladder ruptures you would expect the tank to be completely full of water and when you press the valve core in your tire valve, water would come gushing out. But that doesn't happen until after all the air that was around the bladder that is now at the top of the tank gets the opportunity to mix with the water and escape. Until then there is still air pressure up around the valve so you can't tell anything is wrong. So you do your every 6 months air pressure check like normal and notice that the pressure is substantially lower than it normally is when you need to put air in. That should be your first clue. Instead of waiting 6 months to check your pressure, wait a couple of weeks and check it again. If it is substantially lower than where it should be, you have a ruptured bladder or diaphragm.

I don't like balloon/bladder tanks because they can give you varying pressure readings when you empty them and check air pressure. The nature of the balloon is to lay over itself and trap some of the water in itself. Or it may lay over the balloons exit hole well before it is drained. This causes your air pressure reading to vary as your tank volume varies. I replaced a good tank once because I kept getting different readings and thought the bladder was broken. When I cut the tank up later for a planter I could tell the bladder was whole. The only way I know around this is to put a plumbing coupling in so that you can unhook your tank from the rest of the plumbing and lay it on its side, pull the valve core, and tip the tank towards the valve to see if water runs out. Or you can do what I did last time, and get a diaphragm tank. When it drains, all the water comes out so you always get the right pressure reading.





Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:20:15 PM EDT


My well setup. 119 Gallon tank, the biggest diaphragm tank I could find. Digital pressure control has safety features built in to protect the pump and tank.

I put it on a pedestal so that I could put a hose bib below the tank so I could get every bit of water out of the tank and lines when checking air pressure.

The hose bib on the left is for easily checking pressure with a screw on gauge and is tall enough for filling 5 gallon bottles or buckets as needed.

The shutoff to the house and property is behind the tank.

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:33:11 PM EDT


The bottom box is the control box for the well, one set of wires goes to the pump, the other goes to the pressure switch. Lots of information on the label and if you remove the screw and take off the lid there is usually a troubleshooting guide for the box on the inside of the lid.

The next box up is a power cut off. You can cut the power off to your well with the breaker, or with a regular switch, but you never know when something is going to go wrong and just a little current will bleed through. Electric current and wet working conditions don't mix, and it takes very little current to stop your heart. So being the careful guy I am, I put in a box that physically puts lots of space between the contacts when it is thrown. This one actually uses screw in fuses which I found out work great for wells. The wire going out of it goes to the pressure switch.

On the side of the power cut off box is a surge suppressor. Well systems are often at the end of a power run, or are isolated and a stray power spike can take them out. I don't worry about the pump too much as it is sitting in water in the ground, so one would think it is well grounded. But the control box and the pressure switch aren't so the surge suppressor is there.



Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 11:49:19 PM EDT by MongoCaver]


My well is actually in the same spot as my pressure tank, unlike a lot of you whose well is out by itself. I have a removable panel in the roof of this well house for changing out the pump.

Well is on the bottom left. A hose bib comes off the top of it for convenient water as needed, hooked to a hose in this picture. You can see a universal coupler next that makes changing out the well easier as it can be unscrewed without disturbing the rest of the plumbing.

None of the PVC is insulated or has a heat tape on it because the well house is attached to my shop, both are insulated and the temp inside never gets below 30 degrees.

The grey pvc conduit is unrelated to the well. The water resistant electric box is for plugging in heat tapes, or heat lights as needed. I use it for other things now, and it is nice to have an outlet in there.

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:46:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 11:51:42 PM EDT by MongoCaver]


Lastly, the valve that stops the water from flowing out of the well house. It works well to put the handle on the side like this so that you can open and close it with one hand in a natural motion. Especially in a tight space. The problem with these pvc valves in hard water is that there is some build up of minerals on the ball so it is a little hard to turn at first. And the minerals score the ball a little so there is some leakage past it. Next time I will put two valves in series to prevent leakage.

If any well professionals see all this, cut me some slack and don't make too much fun of me. I don't like paying folks money if I can do it myself, so I am doing the best that I can, cheap bastard that I am.

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 11:50:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By razerface:
If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.
View Quote


ok, now i'm curious. have you actually pulled a submersible well pump up from 400 feet down?

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 4/15/2016 12:09:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2016 12:11:13 AM EDT by ar-jedi]
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Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=87324
My well is actually in the same spot as my pressure tank, unlike a lot of you whose well is out by itself.
View Quote


that's because you live in TX.

here in the northeast, there is no well house or well pit possible, because the well head would freeze solid.

so...
the well casing comes to the surface, of course, but the actual pipe carrying water up from the pump does not.
instead, it terminates about 3-6 feet down from grade, using a special well coupling called a "pitless adapter".
that's an expensive term for a device which allows the well pump and pipe string to "hang" from the inside of the well casing.
and where it hangs the water is diverted horizontally though a gasketed coupling.
the horizontal water pipe (sometimes referred to as the "lateral") continues underground (and below the frost line) until it enters the dwelling through a basement wall or from under the slab.
this way, ALL water stays below the frost line and in liquid form, no matter how cold it gets and for how long.

in my AO, the frost line is (by code) at 42" below grade; most well installers will trench 4-5 feet (48-60") for running the lateral in.
you can get a pretty good idea of how deep the lateral is run by measuring from the inside foundation wall pipe penetration up to the outside grade.

ar-jedi












Link Posted: 4/15/2016 12:28:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2016 12:30:47 AM EDT by MongoCaver]
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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:


that's because you live in TX.

here in the northeast, there is no well house or well pit possible, because the well head would freeze solid.

so...
the well casing comes to the surface, of course, but the actual pipe carrying water up from the pump does not.
instead, it terminates about 3-6 feet down from grade, using a special well coupling called a "pitless adapter".
that's an expensive term for a device which allows the well pump and pipe string to "hang" from the inside of the well casing.
and where it hangs the water is diverted horizontally though a gasketed coupling.
the horizontal water pipe (sometimes referred to as the "lateral") continues underground (and below the frost line) until it enters the dwelling through a basement wall or from under the slab.
this way, ALL water stays below the frost line and in liquid form, no matter how cold it gets and for how long.

in my AO, the frost line is (by code) at 42" below grade; most well installers will trench 4-5 feet (48-60") for running the lateral in.
you can get a pretty good idea of how deep the lateral is run by measuring from the inside foundation wall pipe penetration up to the outside grade.

ar-jedi

http://www.deanbennett.com/ss-pitless-adapter.jpg

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0203/4616/products/IMG_2024_1024x1024.jpg

https://www.merrillmfg.com/sites/default/files/images/pitless/Adapter/Install2.jpg

http://www.agr.gc.ca/resources/prod/img/water-eau/wells_grndwtr_fig1-eng.jpg

http://twoicefloes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Pitless-Adapter.jpg


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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=87324
My well is actually in the same spot as my pressure tank, unlike a lot of you whose well is out by itself.


that's because you live in TX.

here in the northeast, there is no well house or well pit possible, because the well head would freeze solid.

so...
the well casing comes to the surface, of course, but the actual pipe carrying water up from the pump does not.
instead, it terminates about 3-6 feet down from grade, using a special well coupling called a "pitless adapter".
that's an expensive term for a device which allows the well pump and pipe string to "hang" from the inside of the well casing.
and where it hangs the water is diverted horizontally though a gasketed coupling.
the horizontal water pipe (sometimes referred to as the "lateral") continues underground (and below the frost line) until it enters the dwelling through a basement wall or from under the slab.
this way, ALL water stays below the frost line and in liquid form, no matter how cold it gets and for how long.

in my AO, the frost line is (by code) at 42" below grade; most well installers will trench 4-5 feet (48-60") for running the lateral in.
you can get a pretty good idea of how deep the lateral is run by measuring from the inside foundation wall pipe penetration up to the outside grade.

ar-jedi

http://www.deanbennett.com/ss-pitless-adapter.jpg

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0203/4616/products/IMG_2024_1024x1024.jpg

https://www.merrillmfg.com/sites/default/files/images/pitless/Adapter/Install2.jpg

http://www.agr.gc.ca/resources/prod/img/water-eau/wells_grndwtr_fig1-eng.jpg

http://twoicefloes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Pitless-Adapter.jpg


That makes sense for you guys up North. But here in my area they do the same thing, but without the well head being under ground. They will put the tank and etc. in the garage and put the well out away from the house in a little dog house looking box. I assume that here it is to make servicing the pump easier.

Edited to add: Thanks for the explanation on the pitless adapter system. You made me decide for sure that I will never move North of where I am now, only South.


Link Posted: 4/15/2016 1:59:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:


ok, now i'm curious. have you actually pulled a submersible well pump up from 400 feet down?

ar-jedi

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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By razerface:
If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.


ok, now i'm curious. have you actually pulled a submersible well pump up from 400 feet down?

ar-jedi

We pulled one at almost 300 feet. It had flexible pipe, one solid piece. Took a large plastic tank from the farm that had about an 8ft diameter and used the skid loader to pull it up a bit. Attached it to the truck and drove away, using the tank to prevent kinking. Came right up.

It was my uncle's well. It was the 3rd time in 10 years it had to come up due to failure, so yeah, don't be cheap with your pump like he was.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:41:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
We pulled one at almost 300 feet. It had flexible pipe, one solid piece. Took a large plastic tank from the farm that had about an 8ft diameter and used the skid loader to pull it up a bit. Attached it to the truck and drove away, using the tank to prevent kinking. Came right up.

It was my uncle's well. It was the 3rd time in 10 years it had to come up due to failure, so yeah, don't be cheap with your pump like he was.
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By razerface:
If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.


ok, now i'm curious. have you actually pulled a submersible well pump up from 400 feet down?

ar-jedi

We pulled one at almost 300 feet. It had flexible pipe, one solid piece. Took a large plastic tank from the farm that had about an 8ft diameter and used the skid loader to pull it up a bit. Attached it to the truck and drove away, using the tank to prevent kinking. Came right up.

It was my uncle's well. It was the 3rd time in 10 years it had to come up due to failure, so yeah, don't be cheap with your pump like he was.
Came here to post almost exactly this. Previous owners of our house informed me of how to get the thing out because hes done it both ways, and at 675ft deep, I can tell you which one I wont do.

Ill hook it to the back of the tractor draped over a barrel and run it down the driveway. Kind of ironic when the well pipe is as long as your driveway.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 1:45:50 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Came here to post almost exactly this. Previous owners of our house informed me of how to get the thing out because hes done it both ways, and at 675ft deep, I can tell you which one I wont do.

Ill hook it to the back of the tractor draped over a barrel and run it down the driveway. Kind of ironic when the well pipe is as long as your driveway.
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By razerface:
If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.


ok, now i'm curious. have you actually pulled a submersible well pump up from 400 feet down?

ar-jedi

We pulled one at almost 300 feet. It had flexible pipe, one solid piece. Took a large plastic tank from the farm that had about an 8ft diameter and used the skid loader to pull it up a bit. Attached it to the truck and drove away, using the tank to prevent kinking. Came right up.

It was my uncle's well. It was the 3rd time in 10 years it had to come up due to failure, so yeah, don't be cheap with your pump like he was.
Came here to post almost exactly this. Previous owners of our house informed me of how to get the thing out because hes done it both ways, and at 675ft deep, I can tell you which one I wont do.

Ill hook it to the back of the tractor draped over a barrel and run it down the driveway. Kind of ironic when the well pipe is as long as your driveway.
Over the barrel and what was the other? Paying someone?
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:07:05 AM EDT
Hopefully not by hand.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 8:08:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lokt:
Hopefully not by hand.
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Actually, yep.

He also said he couldnt put his arms above his head for a week.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:56:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Actually, yep.

He also said he couldnt put his arms above his head for a week.
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Originally Posted By lokt:
Hopefully not by hand.
Actually, yep.

He also said he couldnt put his arms above his head for a week.
That's between 160 and 200 lbs with pump.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:52:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By MateFrio:
That's between 160 and 200 lbs with pump.
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Originally Posted By MateFrio:
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Originally Posted By lokt:
Hopefully not by hand.
Actually, yep.

He also said he couldnt put his arms above his head for a week.
That's between 160 and 200 lbs with pump.


if the foot valve/check valve just above the well pump is intact, then the pipe string is full of water -- it's A LOT of weight.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pipe-water-content-volume-weight-d_1734.html

as you can see from the table above, a foot water in 1.5" pipe weighs 3/4ths of a pound.
when you start talking about 200/300/400/500/600 foot deep wells, the water in the pipe is a tremendous amount of weight.
add to that the pipe itself, and the pump assembly, it adds up.

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 11:11:29 AM EDT
I had a plumber come out and replace a well pump once, we pulled it by hand.

I did it once after that by myself, I consider paying the plumber to come out part of my education.

But really the whole setup should have been redone and the original well could have been kept but yes on big pressure tank and expensive pump and most of what has been said in here.

On mine it had the underground setup so a metal T pipe was used to engage the foot valve I think it was called and unattach it. Once you did that, it was all on you.

Mine was 80 to 100 ft, as long as my single wide plus a bit.

When doing it all by hand it winds up in a big circle curled around you. If you have someone to walk it on out great, but if doing it by yourself it goes upwards and then you kind of curl it like a monster garden hose.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:19:59 PM EDT
My well is 230ft deep.

When we moved in, we discovered why the previous owner had the sink and toilet in the upstairs bathroom turned off. It's because they leaked. I almost replaced the pump, because it kept running the well dry -- that's because I had a toilet that didn't seal, and a sink that dripped. The low-flow showerhead I bought on amazon flowed the same as a bare-pipe, because the chinese are tricky little bastards. Not a good thing when you're on well. Once I had fixed that stuff, we never had an issue again.

Things I wish I had done immediately upon moving in:
1. Replaced the pressure switch to a new one.
2. Replaced the pressure gauge.
3. Measured the starting amperage, and running amerpage, and written them on the pressure tank.
4. Did the leak-down test.

Another thing to keep in mind is that every drop of water costs you electricity, so your power bill becomes your water-bill so to speak. Low energy appliances will offset the water usage a little, but low-water usage appliances are even better.


Congrats on the house.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 9:56:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Use the biggest pressure tank, or tanks that you can to reduce starting/stopping of the well. It doesn't mind running, starting and stopping all the time are hard on them.

If you have a box with a starting capacitor, get a spare. You may not, most are built into the well head now.


Softeners are great, they don't help the well, but the plumbing and your skin. You want soft water. Have your water lab tested to see what you need to filter for.
View Quote


I have a variable speed well pump and pressure transducer. Only have a 1 gallon bladder tank for pressure while the well pump comes up to speed. Can select the pressure on the controller. Will NEVER go back to a bladder tank. Can post info on it later or tomorrow.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:24:09 PM EDT


Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:50:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 7:33:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By MateFrio:
That red light bad? Shouldn't it show green that the pump has water?
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None of the red lights are on. A yellow light is on showing the selected pressure. Pump was running when I took the picture.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 8:03:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 8:05:43 AM EDT by Con-Sol]
25 years of drilling wells including everything from residential to 3,000' comercial wells and installing pumps from anywhere from 5 GPM to 1150 GPM.

IM me with specific questions if you like and I will point you towards the most cost effective solutions depending on what your actual objectives are.

Lot's of experts here so I'll just say I've put two kids through college and bought my house and my groceries for the last 25 years working on wells and water systems around the world.

ETA: I can tell you a bunch of info from doing a well system inspection and test pump and it certainly reveals a lot more than looking up a cow's ass.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 9:11:26 AM EDT
I am not an expert I just like to do my own thing.
I pulled the old pump on steel 20' joints using a chain hoist but it has an old windmill tower above it.
It was set at 400 feet and 340 to water it was a PIA. I did provide beer to bring in young backs.
Went back with poly and did install a pitless adapter which was neat.
I also installed grundfos sqflex solar pump which is a cool pump.
This summer I plan on installing another next to it for redundancy and I have planted to many trees.
I have one that pumps 6 gpm at 820 ft head pulling only 8.4 amps at 110v with no surge which is set up for the house.
The new one is supposed 13 gpm at 395 ft head pulling only 8.4 amps at 110v with no surge that will be for trees and filling storage tanks.
I should be able to fill my 7000 gallon backup tanks with less than a gallon of gas using my little honda if I need to.
I just have a whole house filter and RO for the drinking water.
I installed a water softener but haven't messed with it much as my back doesn't like 50lb bags and I installed it 70 feet from the door
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 8:50:45 PM EDT
At some point Monday Night, my well pump's steel coupler right below the pitless adapter corroded through and broke, sending the pump falling down about 15ft into the mud bottom of my well shaft.

Tonight is the first time I've taken a shower since Sunday morning. I feel so much better, but my wallet still hurts.


Moral of the story:
Make sure all of the fittings are bronze or stainless steel.


I did learn that my 230ft shaft had water 60ft from the top of the casing, so I've got 250gal in there, and the water issues we had immediately upon moving in were probably related to the failure that happened this week.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 9:19:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By awptickes:
At some point Monday Night, my well pump's steel coupler right below the pitless adapter corroded through and broke, sending the pump falling down about 15ft into the mud bottom of my well shaft.

Tonight is the first time I've taken a shower since Sunday morning. I feel so much better, but my wallet still hurts.


Moral of the story:
Make sure all of the fittings are bronze or stainless steel.


I did learn that my 230ft shaft had water 60ft from the top of the casing, so I've got 250gal in there, and the water issues we had immediately upon moving in were probably related to the failure that happened this week.
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So your water table was 60' and your shaft\pump was 230' down?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:06:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 10:07:07 PM EDT by awptickes]
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Originally Posted By MateFrio:
So your water table was 60' and your shaft\pump was 230' down?
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Originally Posted By MateFrio:
Originally Posted By awptickes:
At some point Monday Night, my well pump's steel coupler right below the pitless adapter corroded through and broke, sending the pump falling down about 15ft into the mud bottom of my well shaft.

Tonight is the first time I've taken a shower since Sunday morning. I feel so much better, but my wallet still hurts.


Moral of the story:
Make sure all of the fittings are bronze or stainless steel.


I did learn that my 230ft shaft had water 60ft from the top of the casing, so I've got 250gal in there, and the water issues we had immediately upon moving in were probably related to the failure that happened this week.
So your water table was 60' and your shaft\pump was 230' down?


Yeah, the well technician guy was confused too. He said that the water table could have shifted, but he doubts it was that far down to begin with. It's a mystery, or they were planning on the table falling.

The pump sits at about 215'.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:00:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By awptickes:


Yeah, the well technician guy was confused too. He said that the water table could have shifted, but he doubts it was that far down to begin with. It's a mystery, or they were planning on the table falling.

The pump sits at about 215'.
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Originally Posted By awptickes:
Originally Posted By MateFrio:
Originally Posted By awptickes:
At some point Monday Night, my well pump's steel coupler right below the pitless adapter corroded through and broke, sending the pump falling down about 15ft into the mud bottom of my well shaft.

Tonight is the first time I've taken a shower since Sunday morning. I feel so much better, but my wallet still hurts.


Moral of the story:
Make sure all of the fittings are bronze or stainless steel.


I did learn that my 230ft shaft had water 60ft from the top of the casing, so I've got 250gal in there, and the water issues we had immediately upon moving in were probably related to the failure that happened this week.
So your water table was 60' and your shaft\pump was 230' down?


Yeah, the well technician guy was confused too. He said that the water table could have shifted, but he doubts it was that far down to begin with. It's a mystery, or they were planning on the table falling.

The pump sits at about 215'.
Someone got shafted?? ;-)
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:06:09 AM EDT
Hi,

I'm not sure about escrow requirements in your state, but I have done a lot of well testing for escrows when I lived in CA. Typically it involves the following;

1. Determine the HP and model of pump as it is often written down somewhere on the control box and a good installer will put the date and depth installed of the pump. If not and there is just a service sticker then a phone call to the well pump company will get the model and depth of setting 90% of the time.

2. With that info you look up the pump curve to roughly determine the discharge rate of that pump at that depth and also the amperage and winding resistance of the motor. Then you check the actual readings of electrical and pump discharge. Also check winding resistance to ground as this will indicate if the motor or submersible electrical cable is degraded. Pump should have a ground wire since that has been an NEC requirement for quite some time. If no ground it should be noted and you can still check the hot legs to ground against another grounding location instead of directly across the submersible cable (three wire cable is standard two wire cable is really really old stuff) Also note if cable is twisted or flat jacketed, flat jacketed is best.

3. You can dead head the pump with a pressure gauge to determine if the impellers have been worn down from sand. Unless the pump is set on poly pipe, then don't dead head the pump. You can also lift the pump up a couple of feet with a pump truck to determine what type of piping the pump is set on. This tells you based off the pump curve how much efficiency the pump has lost, but you must know the static level of the water which is checked when you lift the pump with a electronic device instead of running a sounder down the well.

4. Then you set up the well for open discharge with a gate valve and begin a 4 hour pump test measuring starting discharge and then every 30 minutes measuring GPM. If well runs dry you note the time. Then allow for 30 minutes of recovery and throttling the pump with the gate valve to reach a point the well continues to pump and not run dry as this will indicate the actual yield of the well with the current pump setting. GPM measurement is done using a 5 gallon bucket and a stop watch. Seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket divided by 300 gives you GPM. At the end of the test a water sample is taken for bacteria. E-Coli indicates a possible problem with the septic leaching into the well where as coliform is typically just airborne contamination when drawing the sample. I would also recommend testing for nitrates. The bucket volume test will also indicate how much if any sand the well is pumping and should be noted on the test report.

Most well companies will perform these services and they will hit you for 5 hours of time and lab fees and is usually paid for by the seller or through escrow. At the completion they should give you a report and any recommendations to refurbish the pump system or at least a Good, Fair or Poor classification of the current pump system.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:56:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By razerface:
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.
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Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 4:28:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Originally Posted By razerface:
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.

Whats wrong with poly? It is easier to work with.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:21:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Originally Posted By razerface:
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.


I will second the thing about a cheap well pump.

Read my story above. Being cheap will cost you more. I just paid $1780 for the cheapness of the old owner of the house.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:37:28 PM EDT
OST for lots of good information in here.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 4:40:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 7:46:10 AM EDT by Con-Sol]
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Originally Posted By BUCK1911:

Whats wrong with poly? It is easier to work with.
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Originally Posted By BUCK1911:
Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Originally Posted By razerface:
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.

Whats wrong with poly? It is easier to work with.

It's a PITA to pull with a pump truck and very difficult to clamp and slippery as hell with the bio-film on it.

My last project was 15 wells to 3,000' with VSD drives on 750 hp motors for a combined max water extraction of 12,000 gpm. Along with 62 kilometers of pipeline and a booster pump station of 3,000 hp. Was a busy two years to say the least.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:17:13 AM EDT
I don't pretend to be an expert, if one of the folks making a living see something in my post that should be corrected then please speak up.

What I learned I learned by buying a place in the country and moving from the burbs to the country.

The well I dealt with had the black flexible pipe, guessing that is the polly. Since it was only down 100 ft at most pulling it by hand was possible. It had a nylon rope with it but I never trusted the dinky little rope very much. Anyway, helped a plumber, odd job sort of fella, pull it and later pulled it myself.

I read about the hoists and stuff for pulling well pumps and what not but for mine it was not really needed and the poly allowed me to coil it up as I pulled it by myself. So for me it was awfully easy once I understood what I had.

I agree there were way better choices for the well pump and what not and knowing the fella who owned the place I figure all the way down to the wire size being a bit small, he cut some corners where he felt he could cut em.

Pitless adapter sounds better than foot valve that I used in the last post I did, just need a 1 inch or whatever pipe to engage threads and do put a T on top of it in case it gets away from you.

Now for a side story. Aunt and uncle had a place built and had a well for water to begin with. They went to sears and bought a huge carbon filter setup and someone sold them a service agreement for cheap. They had that thing changed a ton and eventually sears did get a bit mad, but they were the ones who offered and sold the service agreement. I forget what was in the well water that it was filtering out but this was a few decades ago so the water was tested and what not.

Now they are on city water and don't have to mess with that thing.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:16:28 AM EDT
Hot tip for well folks with a square D pressure switch , or similar this spring. Put a couple mothballs in it to keep the ants out and other bugs that get squished in the points.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:30:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:

It's a PITA to pull with a pump truck and very difficult to clamp and slippery as hell with the bio-film on it.

My last project was 15 wells to 3,000' with VSD drives on 750 hp motors for a combined max water extraction of 12,000 gpm. Along with 62 kilometers of pipeline and a booster pump station of 3,000 hp. Was a busy two years to say the least.
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Originally Posted By BUCK1911:
Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Originally Posted By razerface:
there is nothing to do to a well except use the water and replace the pump if it quits,,or redrill if it goes dry. They are pretty boring until that happens.

If it quits, go to Lowes and buy a new one,,install it yourself and save huge money.

If you are curious about your well,,,the county you live in should have the well report that tells all about it when it was put in,,,capacity, water level, ect, ect. At least in ohio, the driller is required to file this info,,,probly your state too. Some drillers put info under the lid on the well. 400+ is a deep well.

Do not go to lowes or home depot for a submersible pump...worse advice ever!

Franklin Electric for the motor and either Redjacket, Grundfos, Jacuzzi (taken over by Franklin) or Berkley pump ends.

I hate poly pipe, would rather use schedule 80 PVC (deepset) with stainless couplings for anything 3hp and 300' or under. Beyond 300' feet then I would go with galv.

Always buy flat jacketed wire and size it correctly which means not just down the hole but from the actual circuit breaker (main). Undersized wire is the biggest problem I see when "electricians" install pumps. There is a formula to calculate the correct wire size and it must be used.

Whats wrong with poly? It is easier to work with.

It's a PITA to pull with a pump truck and very difficult to clamp and slippery as hell with the bio-film on it.

My last project was 15 wells to 3,000' with VSD drives on 750 hp motors for a combined max water extraction of 12,000 gpm. Along with 62 kilometers of pipeline and a booster pump station of 3,000 hp. Was a busy two years to say the least.

I could see that sounds like your having fun.
I use 200psi poly and use my jeep to pull it over a drum backing slowly with a spotter.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 8:06:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BUCK1911:

I could see that sounds like your having fun.
I use 200psi poly and use my jeep to pull it over a drum backing slowly with a spotter.
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The reason I don't like pulling poly pipe like that is that is is too easy to nick the wire on the casing when either coming out or going back into the well. A straight pull is much safer which is very difficult to do with poly.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 6:47:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By awptickes:


Yeah, the well technician guy was confused too. He said that the water table could have shifted, but he doubts it was that far down to begin with. It's a mystery, or they were planning on the table falling.

The pump sits at about 215'.
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Originally Posted By awptickes:
Originally Posted By MateFrio:
Originally Posted By awptickes:
At some point Monday Night, my well pump's steel coupler right below the pitless adapter corroded through and broke, sending the pump falling down about 15ft into the mud bottom of my well shaft.

Tonight is the first time I've taken a shower since Sunday morning. I feel so much better, but my wallet still hurts.


Moral of the story:
Make sure all of the fittings are bronze or stainless steel.


I did learn that my 230ft shaft had water 60ft from the top of the casing, so I've got 250gal in there, and the water issues we had immediately upon moving in were probably related to the failure that happened this week.
So your water table was 60' and your shaft\pump was 230' down?


Yeah, the well technician guy was confused too. He said that the water table could have shifted, but he doubts it was that far down to begin with. It's a mystery, or they were planning on the table falling.

The pump sits at about 215'.

Depending on the yield of the well and the size of the pump the drawdown can be significant and hence the submergence depth of the pump.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 1:32:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Con-Sol:
Depending on the yield of the well and the size of the pump the drawdown can be significant and hence the submergence depth of the pump.
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Yep. It recovers at 4GPM, but again, I have no idea on this stuff, I'm learning as I go. The new pump is 3/4hp and has no restrictor or "constant pressure valve" on it, so it'll probably exceed the recovery rate.
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