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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/24/2009 12:33:00 PM EST
Katadyn Vario Microfilter

Or

Katadyn Hiker Pro

Or.

Aquamira Frontier Filter Emergency Straw Filter

Or is there anything else that would be good for a B.O.B ??
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 1:56:03 PM EST
First Need XL
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 6:08:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By entropy:
First Need XL


XL?
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 6:14:13 PM EST
Hiker Pro. Especially if you are picky about the taste of your water. Mine makes river water taste like bottled.

I want to pick up a Pocket filter for its ability to filter so much water.
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 6:48:58 PM EST
Hiker Pro.

It's very Durable and Works FANTASTIC.

Great bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 9:21:49 PM EST
The Hiker Pro is about the single most popular and common all around filter. It is good at everything but not the best at anything. I have one and love it, it is my main Plan B filter. If you have never bought a filter before and are new to the water filter scene then you cannot go wrong with the Hiker Pro. Just make sure you buy a pre filter and extra filter cartridges.
Link Posted: 10/24/2009 9:41:37 PM EST
Hiker Pro, got one each in both our BOB's.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 2:02:23 AM EST
Another vote for the Hiker Pro. It's small, easy to use, and the quick-connect to connect directly to a hydration bladder is very handy (the Hiker Pro coems with a quick-connect kit to splice into your drinking tube, so you can snap in and fill the bladder directly without removing it from your pack). I have used mine on hiking and backpacking trips, and the water comes out tasting very good.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 6:38:51 AM EST
Hiker Pro for a BOB.

FeFAL
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 7:13:42 AM EST
how bout for the house ,to getrid of coliform type stuff ,might not be able to get bottled water?
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 9:11:21 AM EST
I'm quite fond of my Katadyn Combi. It might be slightly larger and heavier than those mentioned above, but the ceramic filter will be going long after theirs quit. (13,000 gal's est., and I do have a back up filter).
Bite the bullet and get a combi or a pocket.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 9:17:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By offuuu:
Originally Posted By entropy:
First Need XL


XL?


http://www.rei.com/product/767831

It's not that big.

Link Posted: 10/25/2009 9:41:35 AM EST
Hiker pros are great filters... I own a few, they are cheap so you can buy extras just incase... which for water supplies I do, I also carry a MIOX. Little unit that works great IMHO, just needs time and batteris. Being that my BOB is standardized for CR123s, and I carry a dozen extra Im not worried, and the fact that they all take 1 or 2, I can borrow from the light to get the purifier running or visa versa... The only thing not CR123 is the GPS which is not even needed with compass and map/ skills... but I sure like it. I do carry a few AAs when hiking for the camera and GPS. The pocket filter is great, but why the hell do they call it that? Never seen a pocket it will fit into. I keep a pocket version of the SAS suvival guide and a frontier straw in the glove box with a IFAK and a few other things. Cheap insurance if ever needed.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 11:10:45 AM EST
The gold standard is the Katadyn Pocket that's what I bought. Vastly superior to the Hiker.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 11:22:19 AM EST
I took out my Hiker pro and discovered that the filter soured. (smelled moldy)
Link Posted: 10/26/2009 4:24:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By powdershots:
how bout for the house ,to getrid of coliform type stuff ,might not be able to get bottled water?


Katadyn TRK. Won't filter single viruses, but it will really reduce them. A small amount of iodine or bleach (1ppm) will kill the viruses. Most people just ignore them.

Link Posted: 10/26/2009 4:29:26 AM EST
I've got the Vario in my BOB. It's a good filter.
Link Posted: 10/26/2009 4:45:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By hammerkill:
I took out my Hiker pro and discovered that the filter soured. (smelled moldy)


I always take out my filter (regular Hiker) and let it air dry after I use it.

I use mine prolly about 10-12 times a year and change the filter about every 2 years.



FWIW,


Speed
Link Posted: 10/26/2009 8:03:24 AM EST
What is the one the Brittish guy is making for 3rd world contries? It filters virus.

Link Posted: 10/26/2009 12:13:24 PM EST
First Need - It's a purifier not a filter which means it will filter most viruses too.

Berkey is a good stationary filter. I used their filters and built a homemade one.
Link Posted: 10/27/2009 12:14:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By BBQChamp:
The gold standard is the Katadyn Pocket that's what I bought. Vastly superior to the Hiker.


I would say the standard that all other filters are compared to would be the Hiker Pro considering it is the most universal and most popular filter by far. The Pocket is a specialized filter that only serves a particular need in a particular situation.

If price, size, and weight were not an issue then the Pocket would serve nicely but then again a RO system would trumpt the Pocket if those concerns were of no issue.


Link Posted: 10/27/2009 12:24:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2009 12:25:25 AM EST by MrHunterAZ]
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
First Need - It's a purifier not a filter which means it will filter most viruses too.

Berkey is a good stationary filter. I used their filters and built a homemade one.


PFFT! First Need is a cleaver company with a cleaver marketing team. They throw around "Purifier" as if it means something. Their filters...which they are filters...only filter at the 0.4 micron level. Hell the Hiker Pro is filtering at the 0.3 micron level and my Hyperflow is at the 0.2 micron level and the Sawyer is at the 0.1 and 0.02 micron level.

First need is NOT a special uber filter, just a ginormous plastic box with a cleaver sticker.


Same thing goes for the Berkey, cleaver marketing and impressive claims but fails when it comes down to the actual specs.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:20:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By BBQChamp:
The gold standard is the Katadyn Pocket that's what I bought. Vastly superior to the Hiker.


Ditto. But we pay more for it and replacement filters too. Quality has its price.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:47:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By MrHunterAZ:
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
First Need - It's a purifier not a filter which means it will filter most viruses too.

Berkey is a good stationary filter. I used their filters and built a homemade one.


PFFT! First Need is a cleaver company with a cleaver marketing team. They throw around "Purifier" as if it means something. Their filters...which they are filters...only filter at the 0.4 micron level. Hell the Hiker Pro is filtering at the 0.3 micron level and my Hyperflow is at the 0.2 micron level and the Sawyer is at the 0.1 and 0.02 micron level.

First need is NOT a special uber filter, just a ginormous plastic box with a cleaver sticker.


Same thing goes for the Berkey, cleaver marketing and impressive claims but fails when it comes down to the actual specs.


Please back this up!

First Need purifiers are known to be the only portable water filters that have been certified by federal agencies for purification of cysts, bacteria and viruses.
Link

From Vargo Outdoors:
"Its 0.1 micron depth filter 0.4 absolute is effective against harmful bacteria e.g. E. Coli Cholera protozoan cysts e.g. Cryptosporidia Giardia and virus e.g. Polio Echo 2 while also removing a wide range of harmful chemicals e.g. herbicides pesticides solvents as well as foul taste odor and color. Purifies instantly and effectively without chemicals hold time or double pumping. No more iodine taste! Giardia Crypto and other pathogens are captured inside the factory sealed canister safely away from user contact."

From Backcountry.com:
"The First Need Deluxe Water purifier has a 0.1 micron carbon matrix filter element which cranks out a rapid 1.8 liters per minute. The First Need by General Ecology has an incredible filter and a the super-fast pump rate. This advanced water purifier has a capacity of 135 gallons - which is substantial if you consider that the average person consumes about a half gallon per day. Many backpackers like this water purifier because it is compact and its redesigned handle fits comfortably in the palm of your hand."

From REI:
"Also removes unpleasant tastes and certain chemicals. Comes with self-cleaning pre-filter, adjustable float, 36-in. long inlet hose, integral sanitary cover and nylon carrying bag. Direct Connect attaches the unit snugly atop most trail and bike water bottles. Easy-grip, double-action handle provides comfortable pumping, or use the Gravity Assist connection for hands-free purification without pumping. Ideal for moderate use, the Deluxe purifies water naturally, instantly and ecologically. Pump is fully backwashable for cleaning in the field; no brushing, scraping, or contact with pathogens. The only non-chemical water purifier certified to EPA Guide Standard for microbiological purifiers against bacteria, cysts and viruses."
Link

From what I read The First Need Deluxe Water purifier has a 0.1 micron and it is the only portable water filters that have been certified by federal agencies for purification of cysts, bacteria and viruses.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 12:57:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By MrHunterAZ:
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
First Need - It's a purifier not a filter which means it will filter most viruses too.

Berkey is a good stationary filter. I used their filters and built a homemade one.


PFFT! First Need is a cleaver company with a cleaver marketing team. They throw around "Purifier" as if it means something. Their filters...which they are filters...only filter at the 0.4 micron level. Hell the Hiker Pro is filtering at the 0.3 micron level and my Hyperflow is at the 0.2 micron level and the Sawyer is at the 0.1 and 0.02 micron level.

First need is NOT a special uber filter, just a ginormous plastic box with a cleaver sticker.


Same thing goes for the Berkey, cleaver marketing and impressive claims but fails when it comes down to the actual specs.


Please back this up!

First Need purifiers are known to be the only portable water filters that have been certified by federal agencies for purification of cysts, bacteria and viruses.
Link

From Vargo Outdoors:
"Its 0.1 micron depth filter 0.4 absolute is effective against harmful bacteria e.g. E. Coli Cholera protozoan cysts e.g. Cryptosporidia Giardia and virus e.g. Polio Echo 2 while also removing a wide range of harmful chemicals e.g. herbicides pesticides solvents as well as foul taste odor and color. Purifies instantly and effectively without chemicals hold time or double pumping. No more iodine taste! Giardia Crypto and other pathogens are captured inside the factory sealed canister safely away from user contact."

From Backcountry.com:
"The First Need Deluxe Water purifier has a 0.1 micron carbon matrix filter element which cranks out a rapid 1.8 liters per minute. The First Need by General Ecology has an incredible filter and a the super-fast pump rate. This advanced water purifier has a capacity of 135 gallons - which is substantial if you consider that the average person consumes about a half gallon per day. Many backpackers like this water purifier because it is compact and its redesigned handle fits comfortably in the palm of your hand."

From REI:
"Also removes unpleasant tastes and certain chemicals. Comes with self-cleaning pre-filter, adjustable float, 36-in. long inlet hose, integral sanitary cover and nylon carrying bag. Direct Connect attaches the unit snugly atop most trail and bike water bottles. Easy-grip, double-action handle provides comfortable pumping, or use the Gravity Assist connection for hands-free purification without pumping. Ideal for moderate use, the Deluxe purifies water naturally, instantly and ecologically. Pump is fully backwashable for cleaning in the field; no brushing, scraping, or contact with pathogens. The only non-chemical water purifier certified to EPA Guide Standard for microbiological purifiers against bacteria, cysts and viruses."
Link

From what I read The First Need Deluxe Water purifier has a 0.1 micron and it is the only portable water filters that have been certified by federal agencies for purification of cysts, bacteria and viruses.


^This x 10
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 1:29:34 AM EST
tagged for after work
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:26:02 AM EST





Originally Posted By offuuu:
Katadyn Vario Microfilter

Or

Katadyn Hiker Pro

Or.

Aquamira Frontier Filter Emergency Straw Filter

Or is there anything else that would be good for a B.O.B ??



none of your choices are purifiers.

the miox, chlorine dioxide tablets, steripen, and the first need will purify the water.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:12:40 AM EST
MIOX MSR...
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 11:22:05 AM EST
I have a Katadyn Hiker and it works really well.

I wrap and bandanna around the pickup filter (helps keep out some sludge).

Before storing it, the instructions say you must clean the filter with bleach and allow it to air dry for a couple of days to prevent mold.

Samuel
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 12:14:04 PM EST
Has there been a thread on here about when to filter and when to purify? I'm just curious as to how prevalent viruses are in U.S. water sources that are not in close proximity to waste products. Do you always have to purify or is filtering normally enough? I'm starting to wonder if my Katadyn Pocket filter was worth the money I spent or if I would just be better off boiling water and forgetting about the filter.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 12:33:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By JS_280:
Has there been a thread on here about when to filter and when to purify? I'm just curious as to how prevalent viruses are in U.S. water sources that are not in close proximity to waste products. Do you always have to purify or is filtering normally enough? I'm starting to wonder if my Katadyn Pocket filter was worth the money I spent or if I would just be better off boiling water and forgetting about the filter.


Remember. Purified shit is still shit. Always filter. Boiling or using pills is a great second step, but usually not necessary in my experience. The Katadyn is a great purchase. Especially if you want water that taste good to encourage drinking more when it really matters.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:23:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By JS_280:
Has there been a thread on here about when to filter and when to purify? I'm just curious as to how prevalent viruses are in U.S. water sources that are not in close proximity to waste products. Do you always have to purify or is filtering normally enough? I'm starting to wonder if my Katadyn Pocket filter was worth the money I spent or if I would just be better off boiling water and forgetting about the filter.


Remember. Purified shit is still shit. Always filter. Boiling or using pills is a great second step, but usually not necessary in my experience. The Katadyn is a great purchase. Especially if you want water that taste good to encourage drinking more when it really matters.


Great response! I still might add some purifier tablets to my BOB just in case the filter molds or becomes unusable, or the water is highly suspicious .
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:15:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By JS_280:
Has there been a thread on here about when to filter and when to purify? I'm just curious as to how prevalent viruses are in U.S. water sources that are not in close proximity to waste products. Do you always have to purify or is filtering normally enough? I'm starting to wonder if my Katadyn Pocket filter was worth the money I spent or if I would just be better off boiling water and forgetting about the filter.


There are two viruses that pop up time to time in the US. One is the Norwalk virus. It is mainly found in ground or well water but is rare and mostly found in the South West. Again it is rare. There second is Hepatitis A. It is rare but can be found in water that has been contaminated with human feces. Don't worry, there is a vaccine for it. For most people that get Hep A it goes away with no symptoms.

Viruses in the United States tend to be rare so I do not worry about them.

A Sawyer 0.02 filter will take care of them if you are concerned.

Filtering is typically all that is needed with most water. It is hard to determine the safety of water by proximity to cities and industries. Studies have shown that water sources in the middle of cities can be much more biologically cleaner than water sources in the middle of the woods and visa versa. It is almost random.

The Pocket is a good filter but is no better performing than a $60 filter.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:35:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 9:26:53 PM EST by MrHunterAZ]
Originally Posted By tayous1:

Please back this up!

From what I read The First Need Deluxe Water purifier has a 0.1 micron and it is the only portable water filters that have been certified by federal agencies for purification of cysts, bacteria and viruses.


Independently certified to EPA Guidelines. Not EPA certified...big difference. General Ecology does not claim to be EPA certified, only certified by third parties to their standars. What "Government Agencies" is that website that sells products so has a stake in selling filters referring to? Look at their actual studies, they are no more efficient than many of the other filters out there. Link Look at their specs, 0.1 NOMINAL...0.4 ABSOLUTE. The terms they use are important. The Sawyer 0.1 is 0.1 ABSOLUTE.


I cannot find what agencies everyone is claiming they are certified by. 0.1 nominal, 0.4 absolute is nothing superior to many of the filters out on the market.

If you want the most efficient filter on the market then you need to look at the Sawyer 0.02 micron absolute filter. It literally filters out individual viruses, not just the particles that viruses cling to which is BTW the way most filters "filter out viruses."

And again there is no such thing as a "purifier" as what I think you guys are thinking. Hell even reverse osmosis filters which are the most efficient water filters anywhere are do not remove "100%."

You need to only read their own website to see what I am saying is true.

Google reverse osmosis, the terms absolute and nominal, and bacterial, cyst, and virus sizes and you can see what I am saying is true. Also Google the EPA guidelines for "purifier" and you will laugh at their low standards of water quality.

This website will help with the terms. Link

CDC on filters

Table of contaminant sizes
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:51:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By joedapro:





Originally Posted By offuuu:
Katadyn Vario Microfilter

Or

Katadyn Hiker Pro

Or.

Aquamira Frontier Filter Emergency Straw Filter

Or is there anything else that would be good for a B.O.B ??



none of your choices are purifiers.

the miox LOOOONG dwell times, and only if there are no particles., chlorine dioxide tabletsOnly if there are no particles., steripenOnly if there are no particles., and the first need will purify the waterIf it purifies water at 0.4 absolute microns then the 0.1 absolute micron Sawyer must super duper purify water?.


Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:21:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 4:45:18 AM EST by joedapro]
for those who only filter. i would think in a shtf situation you would always want to purify. there may not be no reliable safety net in place.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:26:22 AM EST
maybe so but it won't hurt you and you will survive. no one said not to filter but a filter will not stop every problem including soluble chemicals and metals so you are still drinking some "purified shit" with your fancy filter. the only true method to get clean reliable water is to distill. that has other issues as well. it is energy inefficient and lacks certain necessary soluble minerals.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:06:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By joedapro:
maybe so but it won't hurt you and you will survive. no one said not to filter but a filter will not stop every problem including soluble chemicals and metals so you are still drinking some "purified shit" with your fancy filter. the only true method to get clean reliable water is to distill. that has other issues as well. it is energy inefficient and lacks certain necessary soluble minerals.


Maybe there are some dissolved chemicals in the water, but actual "shit" is solids that will be filtered out. So do you propose that its okay to drink actual "shit" because it has been purified by something like a steripen?

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:27:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrHunterAZ:
Originally Posted By joedapro:





Originally Posted By offuuu:
Katadyn Vario Microfilter

Or

Katadyn Hiker Pro

Or.

Aquamira Frontier Filter Emergency Straw Filter

Or is there anything else that would be good for a B.O.B ??



none of your choices are purifiers.

the miox LOOOONG dwell times, and only if there are no particles., chlorine dioxide tabletsOnly if there are no particles., steripenOnly if there are no particles., and the first need will purify the waterIf it purifies water at 0.4 absolute microns then the 0.1 absolute micron Sawyer must super duper purify water?.




mr hunter,

we go through this every time i respond to a post about water filters and purifiers. i merely pointed out that none of his choices are purifiers and listed some of the available purifiers on the market. why do you always berate my posts. if you want to chat with me about this. email me personally i will give you my phone number and we can discuss whatever your issue's are.

i personally recommend a combination of both filtering and purification. personally i prefer the msr mini ex for a filter. for its price you can get the this filter, miox unit and an extra cleanable ceramic filter for less than the pocket filter. this way if you damage a filter element you have a backup option that you won't have with the pocket filter. this is also more cost effective than a similar set up with the hiker pro. as the msr filter system is cleanable vs the hiker pro's disposable filter system. by the way msr's, miox and mini ex are issued to our marines when conditions call for them.

and to respond to you observations:

so as to long dwell times, the miox unit has up to a 4 hour dwell time if you are concerned about hard shelled protozoa's; and these are a real issue in the us. if you filter these out like i recommend, you are good to go in less than 15 minutes. if your filter fails you have a miox backup. you just have to wait 4 hours. if your miox fails, boil or distill your water, or add chlorine dioxide. just remember chlorine dioxide has a short shelf life. i think it is less than a couple of years.

the chlorine dioxide tablets and liquid drop system are the same as the miox unit, as among other things, the miox creates chlorine dioxide. note the shelf life above.

i never recommended the steripen. i just pointed it out as a purifier system. my experiences have found it to be unreliable at best, as there is no way to purify the water residue on the threads to the water bottles or outsides of the containers you are drinking from. some say this is a non issue.

as pointed out above you are just wrong about the first need system. it is both a filter and purifier.

i never mentioned the sawyer filter as a purifier as i have no experience with it. if you like it good for you. post your positive experiences about it.

your comments above in your other post about only 2 known virus' in the united states fails. if the shtf for real, and that is what many prepare for here, there is a likelihood that those 3rd world country virus' will be in our water system. have you noticed the # of recent immigrants who do not adopted our cleanliness standards? the news here reported that several of the recent ecoli issues were due to lack of cleanliness standards of the migrant farm workers. dysentery whether bacterial or viral can be a real threat in a societal breakdown without an functioning healthcare delivery system. i personally will do my best to be prepared for every contingency. that means my water system will also kill virus'.

i'll await your comments in my e-mail folder, just as i tried last time.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:40:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 4:43:19 AM EST by joedapro]
batman

the dissolved chemicals are a much greater threat than any "neutralized" solid waste that will pass through you. you may even get some nutrients out of it. you eat shit every time you eat a salad or other fruit or vegetable. thats how last springs ecoli issues started. only it wasn't neutralized. do you think the farm workers go back to the farmhouse to use a bathroom? they pee and dump right next to or on the crops. do you think they wash their hands with soap and water? they get paid by production. the time it will take to go back and forth eats into their pay. also if you have any cloth with you you can filter out any large particles. also all my collection water bottles all have a filter in them to screen out solids. i think of it as a pre-pre-filter.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:21:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 1:34:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 1:35:41 PM EST by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By joedapro:
batman

the dissolved chemicals are a much greater threat than any "neutralized" solid waste that will pass through you. you may even get some nutrients out of it. you eat shit every time you eat a salad or other fruit or vegetable. thats how last springs ecoli issues started. only it wasn't neutralized. do you think the farm workers go back to the farmhouse to use a bathroom? they pee and dump right next to or on the crops. do you think they wash their hands with soap and water? they get paid by production. the time it will take to go back and forth eats into their pay. also if you have any cloth with you you can filter out any large particles. also all my collection water bottles all have a filter in them to screen out solids. i think of it as a pre-pre-filter.


When talking about vegetables grown in the US, you will find ecoli to be much less of an issue. I have been to the fields outside of Hollister and Gilroy California. The picking crews all have porta potties that follow them around as they pick each part of the field. They do not squat in the field with cars driving by. I have been all over that valley to Salinas and further south.

I have also been around the citrus orchards in Florida and it was the same thing.

Any good restaurant worth their salt washes the veggies before you eat them.

Only mexican grown veggies has a major problem with ecoli.

Where I live I have no fear of dissolved chemicals. Water is too plentiful and comes down in torrents. Fresh, ground filtered water is less than 6 ft down anywhere within 50 miles of my house.
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