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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:38:37 AM EST
First I am not looking at getting flamed I am just trying to get other opinions that my help me clear up my head on this thing called preparedness.

What I have: I have enough food for a couple 3 months. First I would start on the freezer if I could and then work into cans and finally dry beans. Nothing special probably what most people already have available in there every day pantry.

Every once in a while I get this bug to get more prepared mainly in the food stock department then I get to thinking why. I have enough food to get through a small disaster like an extended power outage, polluted water problem, and the like. Utah is not know for much in the way of huge natural disasters but say in the case of this or civil unrest how much food would you need, will you be able to transport food, where will you go?

I just don't see the point of having a ton of food that in a bad crisis I would probably end up leaving or not being able to defend. Guys say all the time I am heading for the hills, ya well every other Tom Dick and Harry will be heading for the hills. Toughs that can go deep and dark will others will stay by the roads. Other guys will say I have the weapons and ammo to defend my food, to this I have to say really. A couple four people are going to be able to defend a house against who knows how many hungry people that will keep coming day and night. If it gets that bad I am sure there will be some military type weapons around that would make short work of a house.

I see the point in having extra food around, say 3 to 6 months but I am not sure there is a need for 1 + years worth of food. My idea of food storage is more the ready to eat or easy to make kind of stuff. I really don't see a need for a lot baking type stuff or spices. I guess I am looking at the what I would need to survive type storage.

So what do you guys have to say? Where is the error in my thinking?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:54:16 AM EST
I'm in the same boat. I have the means and acreage to hunt if it ever came to that so I look and stock more for things that I may actually need where I live which is heat and water. My primary residence is on city water so I have bottled water stored. I have coleman fuel with a camping stove and propane space heater. I also have plenty of warm clothes and blankets. I still need a generator and a kerosene heater for extended purposes but I'm working on that.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:00:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 6:08:49 AM EST by tiberias]
No error in your thinking at all.

Being "prepared" is different for each person. It is like a holster, each person has a different like, want and need.

My plan is to live as close to the lifestyle my grandparents and great grandparents lived.

Yes I live in the city, but have some land set aside for learning to garden. I have about 4 months of stored foods and medicines. We do canning, make our own breads and other foods from the basic staples. We have a hundred gallons of water stored and many types of filters if we need to tap in the St Louis River which is about a mile from the house. We learn to dehydrate, reuse, recycle the best we can. I teach my children the ways of the real world, not what comes out of Hollywood or the Whitehouse.

I don't think preparedness is owning 15 AR's and 4000 rounds of ammo, plus a garage full of Mountain House food. Preparedness is the calm cool collected thought process, with skills learned that encompass all areas of survival that may affect you.

Preparedness is will and strength to survive no matter what life throws at you. In all actuality preparedness comes from the inside, not the store down the block.

Having a years worth of food may be fine, but taking a 4 months stock in a vehicle is large undertaking. Personally if the SHTF or the TEOTWAWKI I've got a good few months to keep us going so I can start planning. I'm ok with that and know I have the skills to live past month five.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:04:51 AM EST
The real long term stuff is pretty cheap, beans and rice. Probably less than $400 for another 6 month supply. Being able to go an entire year gives you lots more options such as being able to survive until the next crop can come in, or being able to take in friends or family that you didn't plan on. You don't have to buy all $400 at one time, maybe $50 a month for 8 months.

The down sides are low/minimal

The upsides are potentially life saving
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:08:29 AM EST
I agree, there is nothing wrong with your logic.
However, I would make a plan if you and your family is forced out of your home.
For me, this would include camping gear and accessories.

Also, it is very important to NEVER tell your neighbors that your "prepared" or you have emergency supplies.
They will probably laugh at you now, but will be the same folks that will attempt to take it from you when the shit hits the fan.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:12:12 AM EST
It all depends on what you are preppin for.




Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:17:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Muddydogs:
First I am not looking at getting flamed I am just trying to get other opinions that my help me clear up my head on this thing called preparedness.

What I have: I have enough food for a couple 3 months. First I would start on the freezer if I could and then work into cans and finally dry beans. Nothing special probably what most people already have available in there every day pantry.

Every once in a while I get this bug to get more prepared mainly in the food stock department then I get to thinking why. I have enough food to get through a small disaster like an extended power outage, polluted water problem, and the like. Utah is not know for much in the way of huge natural disasters but say in the case of this or civil unrest how much food would you need, will you be able to transport food, where will you go?

I just don't see the point of having a ton of food that in a bad crisis I would probably end up leaving or not being able to defend. Guys say all the time I am heading for the hills, ya well every other Tom Dick and Harry will be heading for the hills. Toughs that can go deep and dark will others will stay by the roads. Other guys will say I have the weapons and ammo to defend my food, to this I have to say really. A couple four people are going to be able to defend a house against who knows how many hungry people that will keep coming day and night. If it gets that bad I am sure there will be some military type weapons around that would make short work of a house.

I see the point in having extra food around, say 3 to 6 months but I am not sure there is a need for 1 + years worth of food. My idea of food storage is more the ready to eat or easy to make kind of stuff. I really don't see a need for a lot baking type stuff or spices. I guess I am looking at the what I would need to survive type storage.

So what do you guys have to say? Where is the error in my thinking?


I think the error is assuming you'll have to leave your home and carry everything. Unless something forces you out of your home/location. Why leave?
During a long period of total anarchy I'll give you that much, you have to leave or die. There's no defending a fixed location against the hordes.
Then again, you're missing th entire scale of gray and jumping to a far fetched, terribly unlikely situation.
Most often than not, if you're armed and at a somewhat defendable home, bad guys go looking for easier victims.
Don't think "well but when the mass of zombies comes rolling in... " think likely, not less likely of all scenarios.
Banks go on hollydays, shops get looted so most close and what's left open isn't enough. Its not the end of the world but your options are either bugging in and eating your supplies or go out there to one of the handouts the government is organizing, risk your neck for a bag of groceries that people are robbing from each other on the way home.
Not the end of the world but food is scarce. You have food and you have guns. People are hungry but dont want to get shot, and rather rob a less prepared person if that's the case.
No job, no banks, no money, I'd be glad to have guns and a 12 month supply of food.
Besides, and this should be obvious enough, one thing I promise you'll be doing a year from now, all of us (at least the lucky ones): that would be eating.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:26:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:28:16 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:30:46 AM EST
Do you have a generator for the freezer?

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:41:41 AM EST
The question is what are you actually "preparing" for? The options range from an ice storm to an illness to a cataclysmic earth-shattering kaboom., and everything in between. Decide what makes sense for you and your family.

I made this post somewhere else, but it covers the thought that should go into each step, from food, to shelter, etc.


Decide, within reason, what you're planning for. You can't prepare for Armageddon. You can prepare for a natural disaster, an extended bout of unemployment due to the economy or health reasons, or even some sort of scenario when food, in general, may become scarce.

So, start on that basis. What is most likely?

Say, natural disaster, If you live in a hurricane, tornado or earthquake prone location. this could be your biggest risk. Think about scenarios. If there's an earthquake, is natural gas going to be interrupted? Can you eat whats available in your house? How do you prepare it? Are you better off finding an alternative fuel source, or storing foods that require little preparation? Maybe some prepared canned foods, like pastas or soups, that can be easily heated and eaten, out of the can if necesary, if a lot of water isn't available to clean up. This is an expensive type of food, but also the most convenient.

How long is this scenario likely to last? A few weeks? That's probably a maximum for most situations. How much does your family eat? Even in a situation like a relatively large natural disaster, you'll probably be able to supplement your stored food with groceries you purchase. But plan accordingly and buy a few things each grocery trip until you get a realistic supply of prepared foods.

Or, maybe, depending on your location, you have to be prepared to leave quickly. If you live in a hurricane prone area and are forced to evacuate, have a plan for foods that you don't have to shop for at the last minute, that can be kept in a tote and put into the car, and eaten without much in the way of utensils or dishes, while you're on the road.

The next risk, maybe, is prolonged unemployment. If you're living on a greatly reduced income, how do you adjust your food budget? The items you're going to want to eat during a period of time when your money is tight are going to be a lot different than what you have in an emergency situation. You're going to want to get as much as you can for your money, and you can usually expect to be unemployed for longer than the couple weeks maximum a natural disaster is likely to last. Think staples that you'll use. Flour, sugar, pastas, peanut butter, canned vegetables. Longish, but limited shelf lives, and things you probably already use regularly. Again, watch for sales, stock up on items that store well as they become inexpensive, and use these items in every day cooking, rotating the stock. Get used to having "more" than less. I very rarely buy anything that's not on sale these days, besides fresh fruits and vegetables. I don't have to. I can wait for a sale. Personally, this kind of storage is where I'd put the bulk of my resources, and make the biggest adaptions in my lifestyle, but it depends on what is realistic for your life.

Then there's the holy shit, the immediate world has come crashing down, food has become scarce, and there's roving bands of zombies situation. Or, let's just say, some sort of very serious situation, pandemic illness, Yellowstone blows and screws up farmland,nuclear disruprtion, whatever. A lot more far-fetched but a probability greater than zero.

So, if that happens, what then? You eat what you can eat and you get a lot less choosy about what that is and probably about how its prepared. This is probably the area you'll want to put the least resources, but also where you can get a lot more bang for your buck. Whole grains are cheap. Rice, beans? Dirt cheap purchased in bulk, and packaged well, they'll keep for years. For $10.00, you can get hundreds of servings of food. So, is it prudent to spend a small amount of money for a potentially large payoff? In my opinion, sure. Use these foods in day to day cooking, too..they're good for you and inexpensive.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:53:30 AM EST
You want to prep for the worst case hit the hills senerio, then cache supplies where your headin.

How "Hard" is your current bug in location?

If your palce is built like Ferfal's then I'd say stackem deep. He's got a small fortress there.

maybe he'll post us a few pics again.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:17:41 AM EST
Id like to be more prepared BUT with the economy and .gov ramming me in the back side ever time I turn around. I just cant scrounge up the extra cash to do so. Actually its been hard to even pay the bills. We took a MAJOR HIT. IE going from thousandss a week to hundreds! SO i guess the shtf for us already. Looking to cash out as much as I can to get rid of all dept and relocate to some play where we can live easier.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:27:51 AM EST
"Every once in a while I get this bug to get more prepared mainly in the food stock department then I get to thinking why. I have enough food to get through a small disaster like an extended power outage, polluted water problem, and the like. Utah is not know for much in the way of huge natural disasters but say in the case of this or civil unrest how much food would you need, will you be able to transport food, where will you go?"

That's the common mistake many people make with survival preparations. For me, bugging out to the hills isn't my Plan A, so I don't approach it like it's my Plan A. I don't plan on bugging out until(and unless) I HAVE to, so why should my planning be based on that option? I don't plan on having to carry ALL my preps. If I have to bug out, I'll take what I can and leave the rest, but until then I'll plan on living at home. One important point in planning is to spend more of your resources(time, money, etc.) on your higher priorities. If your main plan is to stay in place(like most people probably should) then you should also spend most of your resources on those choices.
I understand that bugging out is the "exciting" choice to many people, but that doesn't mean you should spend most of your time focused on it.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:48:16 AM EST
A total colapse is not likely, but a deep recesion is, food is made from fuel, when fuel prices go up food will to.
Storeing food is a hedge against inflation and unemployment for me.
Just as buying cases of ammo was wise 2 years ago, buying food is wise.
Food prices may fall but I doubt it , it's the only thing we export anymore.
I store dry goods in 20mm ammo cans that I got for $4 each, the cans now sell for $18 each,
I could throw the food amy and sell the cans and come out ahead.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:54:08 AM EST
i think my biggest problem is living in houston (in the suburbs about 15 miles away from downtown, which is still damned crowded). if SHTF, traffic will be a bear, but that won't matter bc i dont have a BOL. i think my small food AND WATER stash will last me 3 months if i was by myself, but substantially less if my mom/dad/stepmom/stepdat/step bro came to my place.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:19:02 AM EST
Food buys you time. It buys you time to stay in place (while everyone else is fighting over the scraps), it buys you time to plant a garden, it allows you to take on a 'crew' that allows you all to surive anything that happens. It's hard to beat food and water for the short-term needs of people. Having that gives you options.

What others said - the real value of preparations like this is that it's unknown to others. Unlike 2A Rights, this is a perfect example of when to keep your mouth shut.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:54:09 AM EST
Some good points and tips.

I do live in the land of food storage. The Mormons are great at this. Most in this state just assumes you have food storage so its not much of a secret.

My plan is to stay where I am at unless I have to leave. I have no problems with taking to the hills, as a field Forester and having spent 15 years in the woods I have no problems there.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 10:54:33 PM EST
We all have to plan for what we are comfortable prepping with.

Two other posters touched on this. But I will combine their posts and flog the horse a little more.

Prepping is not just about the end of the world or a natural disaster. An example I use to explain it to non-preppers was illustrated by the poster who mentioned the ammo cans and the poster talking taking an economic hit. As I tell people, if I do not need to by groceries, razors, shampoo, laundry soap etc etc. 6 months unemployment will go farther(this arguement has convinced a couple co-workers to start prepping on a small scale). Also, by buying in bulk and storing it, it is a hedge as a couple others have mentioned. Nothing is getting cheaper. Having extra gives you options when times get tough. Buying in bulk saves money (though if you don't go to the store often that shock when you see how much stuff has gone up can hurt).

As to preps for shtf/teotwaki, the more you have the more options you have. A couple that come to mind, if I have two years food and I feel the current SHTF is only going to last 6 months-one year then I have the option to trade say 2 or 3 months of that off and still have a cushion. If a friend/relative falls on hard times I can help them out with a months of the basics without incurring any real hardships. If I have to bugout I prioritize and take what I can. But, I have the option of staying if it is feasible.

JMHO YMMV
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:02:05 AM EST
people don't realize how unlivable modern houses will be in SHTF. they aren't designed to run without plumbing electricity ac or heat. once a house is unlivable they will have to bug out and it won't be practical to take a quarter of your supplies.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:42:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By readyornot:
The real long term stuff is pretty cheap, beans and rice. Probably less than $400 for another 6 month supply. Being able to go an entire year gives you lots more options such as being able to survive until the next crop can come in, or being able to take in friends or family that you didn't plan on. You don't have to buy all $400 at one time, maybe $50 a month for 8 months.

The down sides are low/minimal

The upsides are potentially life saving


+1 Well put

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:44:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 1:44:34 AM EST by 1179]
Originally Posted By dawgm:
people don't realize how unlivable modern houses will be in SHTF. they aren't designed to run without plumbing electricity ac or heat. once a house is unlivable they will have to bug out and it won't be practical to take a quarter of your supplies.


True,
that is why you need to plan ahead. You will need some supplies at your main residence for short term SHTF.
If you fail to plan then you plan to fail.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:46:00 AM EST
The main problem with utah is there are alot of commies to your west that know the state has alot of have food storage.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:38:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:46:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:49:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tight-group:
You want to prep for the worst case hit the hills senerio, then cache supplies where your headin.

How "Hard" is your current bug in location?

If your palce is built like Ferfal's then I'd say stackem deep. He's got a small fortress there.

maybe he'll post us a few pics again.


Ferfal posted some pics and I missed them ? Jeeeez, was I asleep ?

Ferfal, please re-post

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:51:39 AM EST
TJ is spot on as usual.

Prepping is a way of life now, not just a fad.

People used to think we were crazy or something, now, we are the smart ones.

SHTF is not just about hurricanes, or earthquakes. Its a mind set against bad juju.

We are the sheepdogs, not the sheep.
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