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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:15:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 5:16:42 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:35:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 6:35:48 AM EST by Olive75]
with the turn-around occurring in the economy, Obama righting all the wrongs, and the Dems changing things for "the better", how could we not be feeling good ?

.. ..

I think the latest surge of false hope in the media makes me that much MORE uneasy!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:35:50 AM EST
Is that "Hope", "Denial", or "Rationalization"?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:43:12 AM EST
The economy will recover soon.

I have a generator, no need for a backup water source.

I can grow my own food, I'll start a garden when SHTF.

I'll teach my kids gun safety when they are 12.

More later.

Ops
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:27:37 AM EST
I'll never need any tools in my car, because AAA will always send someone.

I don't need to know how to use the tire tool of my car, because I can call someone
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:30:19 AM EST
Here is a great one I actually heard a couple days ago: "I wont need to defend myself because I have a positive aura"
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:34:57 AM EST

tag.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:25:40 AM EST
The meek shall inherit the Earth....
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:41:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Here is a great one I actually heard a couple days ago: "I wont need to defend myself because I have a positive aura"


Bullets > Positive Auras

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:42:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:25:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

I'll give you a couple examples.

"I will never bugout. If my house is on fire, I have confidence the fire department will be there and the damage light."


That one REALLY makes me laugh. If the damage from the fire is light, that's fine... but the damage from the water the FD is going to dump WON'T be. I've seen RIVERS flooding out of people's front doors as the FD filled the house....
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:27:30 AM EST
Should I try to return the body armor I just wasted all that money on?

Any body want to by an MBR collection and a metric butt load of XM193 and SA 7.62 x 51 so I can go all in before the market hits 14,000 again?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:49:14 AM EST

SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away.


BWAHAHAhahahaha......

Hmmmm....let's play country folk and gangsta's anyone???? I'm betting on....

I'm mostly a city kid.

My rural deer hunting companions make me feel stupid and clumsy in the woods.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:47:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Here is a great one I actually heard a couple days ago: "I wont need to defend myself because I have a positive aura"


Our version of that instead of positive aura is "Situational Awareness."


my version is violence and intensity
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:04:15 PM EST
Hmmmm....let's play country folk and gangsta's anyone???? I'm betting on....


Reminds me of Crocadile Dundee 2, take the drug dealers into the Austrailian Outback to play. I love watching big tough gangsta when they see some ants or spiders in jail..they are scared shitless, especialy when I tell them they are poisonous ants and spiders.....
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:08:48 PM EST
Re: "SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away. "

Having lived in Bogota, Colombia–– I can tell you: That IS what happened.

Sure, the city is dangerous too. But even today in Colombia, you're much safer in the city in most cases, than out in the country. All of the security resources are bolstered in the good neighborhoods, and neighbors live in complexes and pay for private 24 hour security and construct security walls and electric gates. The people in the country abandon their towns and move to the city, because it's safer from the roving gangs and guerillas.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but your statement strikes me as based on some scenario you've invented in your head, regarding the direction of the way your SHTF is SUPPOSED TO UNFOLD.

It might go that way, it might not. That's the problem with prepping: We don't know exactly what we're prepping for.


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:14:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

and one of the forum latest themes.

SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away.

Give this a try, its pretty easy really because its all about thinking in absolutes. Absolutes are simply not the survival mindset but "What if". Like I said this could be fun and educational.

Tj
Bud
I was shaking my F'n head at that one.


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:22:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By CostaRicaJones:
Re: "SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away. "

Having lived in Bogota, Colombia–– I can tell you: That IS what happened.

Sure, the city is dangerous too. But even today in Colombia, you're much safer in the city in most cases, than out in the country. All of the security resources are bolstered in the good neighborhoods, and neighbors live in complexes and pay for private 24 hour security and construct security walls and electric gates. The people in the country abandon their towns and move to the city, because it's safer from the roving gangs and guerillas.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but your statement strikes me as based on some scenario you've invented in your head, regarding the direction of the way your SHTF is SUPPOSED TO UNFOLD.

It might go that way, it might not. That's the problem with prepping: We don't know exactly what we're prepping for.


I understand what your saying I've seen a Panamanian kid show up in the jungle to trade still cool cokes for mre's.

The average city gang member in the USA isn't going to do that.... is anything possible sure.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:34:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Here is a great one I actually heard a couple days ago: "I wont need to defend myself because I have a positive aura"


I'm not a cannibal but, just for general purposes, come SHTF I'd eat someone who said that. Hell, I probably wouldn't even wait until SHTF. Let's face it: if there's any justice at all in the universe someone who would say something that stupid would have to taste really good.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:36:55 PM EST
Using Colombia as a representative example of what would happen here is probably not appropriate simply because the ratio of rural American firearms ownership compared to rural Colombian peasants is probably highly in favor of the rural American.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:14:04 PM EST
Things I've heard in recent months while trying to talk common sense to those around me.


The government will never let it get that bad.

You shouldn't teach children to play with fire, they could get hurt.

Why'd you throw away all the copied DVD's I gave your kids and tell them I'm gonna go to jail?

It's all god's plan, he'll see me through.

We'll head up north and live off the land. We could live for months, hunting and fishing.

I can heat my mobile home with my fireplace. I've been meaning to get some wood......I could burn my deck.

It's all media hype, nothing's gonna happen, you're just buying their scare tactics.

There won't be another gun ban, the democrats learned that was a mistake.

223 is everywhere, you'll always be able to find some.

Why would you worry about a blizzard? There hasn't been one here in 30 years. Man, it used to snow like hell in the 70's and was colder too.

I don't need a generator, the longest the powers been out here is a few hours at most.

There's no good reason for a grown man to cuddle with children in their underwear.......when I tried to explain hypothermia, they made me a pervert

And, the infamous......if anything happens, I'm coming to your house.


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:39:47 PM EST
I have been hearing the "if anything happens, I'm coming to your house" line quite a bit lately. One time last week, it was from a good friend of mine. He is selling what few guns he has to try to get out of debt ( $35k). All he has is an SKS and a shotgun. Then he goes out to the movies and spends $20 a day at work on cokes and chips. I just don't understand folks sometimes.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:41:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By CostaRicaJones:
Re: "SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away. "

Having lived in Bogota, Colombia–– I can tell you: That IS what happened.

Sure, the city is dangerous too. But even today in Colombia, you're much safer in the city in most cases, than out in the country. All of the security resources are bolstered in the good neighborhoods, and neighbors live in complexes and pay for private 24 hour security and construct security walls and electric gates. The people in the country abandon their towns and move to the city, because it's safer from the roving gangs and guerillas.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but your statement strikes me as based on some scenario you've invented in your head, regarding the direction of the way your SHTF is SUPPOSED TO UNFOLD.

It might go that way, it might not. That's the problem with prepping: We don't know exactly what we're prepping for.




FerFal308 said the same thing about Argentina
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:49:44 PM EST
"most confrontations can be solved peacefully if we just sit down and talk it out"

My BIL said that is his survival philosophy, and that in a time of crisis, it is human nature to gather together, pool resources, and work for the common good.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:10:25 PM EST
"If the SHTF I will be safe and well fed because I live out in the country"

And interchangeably

"If the SHTF all the bad people will loot the country side so I will be safer here"

Are two sides of the same coin. I call it Geographic complacency- The denial of need to prepare for contingency's based on geography.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:35:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 4:40:29 PM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:37:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mannlicher:
"most confrontations can be solved peacefully if we just sit down and talk it out"

My BIL said that is his survival philosophy, and that in a time of crisis, it is human nature to gather together, pool resources, and work for the common good.


Your BIL needs to watch some videos of the LA Riots after the first Rodney King verdict and the Hurricane Katrina coverage. The only "gathering together" I saw was gangs trying to kill people not in the gangs.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:46:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:49:51 PM EST
I had $15,000 in over the counter bank stock that was my back-up in case I lost my job or needed to cash out and run.

Bank almost went tits up. Stock is currently worth about $1200.

What really chaps my ass, for all my prepping, I didn't have a back-up for my back-up plan when it came to money.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:58:29 PM EST
The idea that because one has guns and ammo stockpiled and goes to the range occasionally that that person is "well trained"

Of course, that's not a new phenomenon, just a persistent one.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:09:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:36:43 AM EST
"i fished a lot when i was a kid, i know i can eat fish to survive come shtf ( insert hunting here as well)...."

and

" i got multicam no one will see me"

or

" i ve got 4 cases of MRE's ive got enough food for 2 months if i eat one entree a day....."

on the geograpahical junk- how things go down in area A doesnt mean it will go down the same area B.
Once people wake up to that they may learn from how certain peoples adpat and over come harsh events! A perfect example of that is NOLA vs North Dakota when it came to flooding( or south whereverthose damn floods were dontcha know. .)
sit around and wait for help vs get up, and help others!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:32:23 AM EST
I just need to work a few more years then I can go on SS.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:38:22 AM EST
If TSHTF, i'm coming to your house.


Unfortunately, i'm not as well prepped as they might imagine - working on it :).

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 10:33:00 AM EST
I'm in the city and stuck here. I'd rather have a nice chunk of land in BFE, but right now I play the cards I'm dealt.

Right now I can probably last 6 months without leaving my property. It would be a shitty 6 months, but I would be alive.

A house fire could change all that instantly, of course.

At least I am a much harder target than all my neighbors, as far as I can tell
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:31:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mannlicher:
"most confrontations can be solved peacefully if we just sit down and talk it out"

My BIL said that is his survival philosophy, and that in a time of crisis, it is human nature to gather together, pool resources, and work for the common good.


You're BIL is one of them damned libtards isn't he?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 1:21:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 1:27:02 PM EST by ferfal308]
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

SHTF, I'd rather be right in the city or suburbs. The criminals and gangs will get in their cars and go straight after the farm houses miles away.

Give this a try, its pretty easy really because its all about thinking in absolutes. Absolutes are simply not the survival mindset but "What if". Like I said this could be fun and educational.

Tj


Wherever you live, crime is a problem people will have to deal with sooner or later if things keep going south.
I'm more worried about the guy that thinks that isolation will protect them. Never worked that way when times are tought, never will. Only works great when there no real problem to worry about in the first place, like when Homer buys Lisa a lion repellant stone. It works becuase there are no lions to begin with. Homer still pays Lisa 20 bucks for the lion reppeling stone...
I'm also curious as of why you think criminals are incapable of doing just that, driivng to an isolated property that looks like a profitable target.
Thinking like a criminal , that's exaclty what I would do. Isolation, no witnesses, no help showing up anytime soon, maybe just taking a family member hostage when I see the opportunity so as to aovid any resistance entirely.
I doubt anyone living in a city thinks criminals will just drive far away and wont be a problem. Thinking that becuase you live out of the city crime wont be a problem for you after SHTF, now that sounds like a feel good, head in the sand attitude.

Edited to add:
For any non believers out there. Try learning from REAL events guys, not wishful thinking that fits nice with your current situation.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=19102



http://www.rhodesia.nl/farmeratwar.html

FerFAL

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 2:05:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 2:16:10 PM EST by ferfal308]
1)Once SHTF, everything will be like “Little house on the Prairie “ I’ll be the town’s blacksmith, some other guy will work the sawmill, we’ll trade for whatever we need.
I can pay for gasoline, insurance, chemotherapy, plane ticket, collage or a coronary transplant with tomatoes I grow myself.

Charles Ingals would bitch about being broke and not having enough money like 5 minutes on each show. But I’ll choose to ignore that part and concentrate on what I liked and fits my fantasy.

2)Everyone will start going to church every Sunday, my kid will marry one of the many 18 year old virgins in town (maybe the barrel maker’s daughter?) , because old values will make a strong comeback.

3)The government will just… (man, its hard to find something to fit this delusion), it will just banish into thin air… just because.

4) I’ll store tons of TP and people will pay me with bars of gold and their first born for it… because no one will figure the fine art of TP making…

5) Rich people will become poor. Because we all know that rich people are stupid, since they figured out how to make a lot of money. Only idiots figure that out.

6) I don’t need a handgun because I have a rifle. Its more powerful, I shoot it better ( can’t hit the broad side of a barn with those darn Glocks), it has more ammo.

7) One shot one kill. If I have a 6 shot snubby, that means I can easily kill 6 attackers. Of course, I went to Gunsite so I’ll never miss a shot in my life during a gunfight. EVER.

8) A gun is what you use to fight your way to a rifle. Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger did in “Commando”. This of course, happens all the time.

9) Red Dawn is also the best, most informative survival movie I ever watched.

10) Gold is of course, just shiny metal. After SHTF its only good for making bullets and fishing weights. In spite of a solid reputation as a form of wealth that goes back to prehistoric times and has kept that way without interruption for thousands of years, it’s only reasonable to think that ( once SHTF) that will change completely.

11) Going to work? Dude, its SHTF! You just sit around scratching your balls all day. Check every other disaster, socio-economical crisis or country collapse, there’s always two things in common: 1) People sit on their ass all day 2) No one needs or wants money. Money is just what you use to start fires and use as insulation in your shoes.

12) SHTF will be just what I have in mind. Thinking otherwise would be ridiculous.

FerFAL
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 3:50:15 PM EST
Red Dawn is also the best, most informative survival movie I ever watched


well least you got one thing correct ....

I wonder if you can watch reddawn on an IPOD..during TSHTF......

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:22:23 AM EST
I do agree with Ferfal on some of this- isolation ALONE will not do jack crap for you.

Now that being said, you ARE isolated in the city. This notion that

1. Your neighbors will help you.
2. The cops will show up quickly
3. Criminals will not do bad things cause others are around

can be easily debunked by a weekly scanning of newspaper articles/ news sites regularly. So in that regard, it's really no different than the city.

Ferfal prefers the city, some of us (myself most especially included) like the country. To each his own.

To me, the worse times in ANY emergency are going to be the first days. I know that 300,000 people from the city that's over 2 hours from my house are not going to magically turn up on my front lawn during the first couple of days. In the city, well they are already there- the 300,000 people. More people that are dependent on the system equals the more POTENTIAL for trouble. Look no further than Katrina for that lesson. So do you want those 300,000 people in your area hungry, pissed off and lawless or do you want to maybe worry about 20-30 in your area? I'll take the 20-30 any old day of the week.

IMO, the only thing holding those 300,000 in the city will be

1. The gubmint. Which may or may not be effective in doing so.
2. Lack of transportation.

Your average Joe and Sally Sixpack with the Chipboard McMansion, you know, "living the American dream", could not walk 10 miles in a day. Maybe not 5 if they were carrying anything, and trust me they will be carrying all kinds of stupid crap. Food and water will take second place to "important documents" and "family heirlooms."

So the very DISTANCE that you are from large concentrations of people that are dependent on trucks rolling in every day with food, power and men to work the water treatment plants, fuel and men to work the power plants, etc. will work in your favor.

I still have yet to meet any country survivalists that think that just because they are 100 miles from Bimblebobble that they are 100% safe. We have the SAME CONCERNS city folks have when it comes to security, we just have more we CAN do.

DISTANCE from concentrations of potential troublemakers being one of the biggest factors. Those 300,000 people, even if for some reason ALL of them decided to leave, how many would make it 100 or more miles away in YOUR area? First off they would have 4 potential directions to go from the city and not more than maybe 30% would attempt to leave in the first place, and you'd have to figure that would be a few WEEKS afterwards as most would wait for FEMA and Red Cross to show up with donuts and blankets. So how many would make a 100 mile potential HIKE with enough supplies to make a 100 mile hike. How many would die along the way, get shot by country folk as they looted their gardens, etc.

Just like in close range gunfighting, DISTANCE can either work for you or against you.

And yes I agree, Charles Ingalls was ALWAYS stepping in crap when it came to money. Part of that was he tried to be a commercial farmer. IMO, this is bad ju ju for any city folk that move to the country. All these "Make 100K a year growing Echnicea" ads are utter BS. Yes you'll need an income. In the country if you are working at your homestead, you'll just need LESS income.

And THAT has been the bigger problem here in the states for the last year. Most people I talk to CAN find work, they just have either had to take a pay cut or they have LESS work. You wouldn't believe how many confirmed sheeple types I know have grown gardens this year. Why? It cuts expenses down.

A good retreat/working homestead is not just for full on SHTF. Hell this is part of my retirement plan- paid for land and homes, large gardens and orchards, AE system. My expenses aren't much now but will likely be less in retirement. It won't matter so much if my Roth tanks, I'll have food, power, land, home and income. I win either way, have a nice life now and a comfortable retirement later, even if the market tanks.

Lowdown3
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:33:49 AM EST
"He who make love to survival girl in strawberry patch during SHTF get ass in jam"
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:45:20 AM EST
"For any non believers out there. Try learning from REAL events guys, not wishful thinking that fits nice with your current situation."

That works well as long as you learn the RIGHT lessons from REAL events. People often learn the "wrong" lessons from things. The Titanic sank in 1912, and there are all kinds of "lessons" people could learn from it. One person might take from the incident that crossing the ocean on a ship is dangerous and should be avoided. Another could take from it the "lesson" that all ocean-going ships should have enough lifeboats for every person on board. Still others could take other "lessons" from the same incident.
It's good to learn from REAL events, as long as you remember that REAL events in one place don't necessarily mean things in another place will go the same way, or the same steps.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:07:33 AM EST
I've never been to Argentina, but I have been to many of the largest cities in the US, Cincinnati, Dallas, Det-riot, DC, Houston, NOLA, Philadelphia, and several more. I have also been in the countryside in many states too.

My take on it is this, I won't tell FerFAL where the safest place to be in Argentina post shtf and I'll listen to his experience and give opinion on the US some weight.
But there is no major city in the US I would want to be in during the first few weeks following a crash. To many hood rats with to many guns, sure the PD may get it under control but for the first several weeks I'll be much safer in the countryside with neighbors who are better armed then most of the hood rats.

My personal feeling is that a well chosen subdivision of 5-10 acre lots within commuting distance of the city you work in is about the best compromise for those of us who can't make a living in BFE.
The small acreage would make it dificult for a gang to isolate any single home without a neighbor seeing or hearing something. Perfect? No but My experiences in the cities tells me that is not the place to be.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:37:54 AM EST
One of my favorites is the "Golden Oldie" left over from the 70s(and later). I hear some people who prefer to do nothing about their own survival say something along the lines, "Nobody would want to live under bad conditions like that, so I'll just pull up a lawn chair, crack open a bottle of Jim Beam, and wait for the flash to vaporize me."
As others have pointed out to them, the "flash" won't vaporize everybody, and the people who use that excuse to do nothing will find themselves in the same bad situation as all the other people who did nothing.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:27:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:32:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
1)Once SHTF, everything will be like “Little house on the Prairie “ I’ll be the town’s blacksmith, some other guy will work the sawmill, we’ll trade for whatever we need.
I can pay for gasoline, insurance, chemotherapy, plane ticket, collage or a coronary transplant with tomatoes I grow myself.

Charles Ingals would bitch about being broke and not having enough money like 5 minutes on each show. But I’ll choose to ignore that part and concentrate on what I liked and fits my fantasy.

2)Everyone will start going to church every Sunday, my kid will marry one of the many 18 year old virgins in town (maybe the barrel maker’s daughter?) , because old values will make a strong comeback.

3)The government will just… (man, its hard to find something to fit this delusion), it will just banish into thin air… just because.

4) I’ll store tons of TP and people will pay me with bars of gold and their first born for it… because no one will figure the fine art of TP making…

5) Rich people will become poor. Because we all know that rich people are stupid, since they figured out how to make a lot of money. Only idiots figure that out.

6) I don’t need a handgun because I have a rifle. Its more powerful, I shoot it better ( can’t hit the broad side of a barn with those darn Glocks), it has more ammo.

7) One shot one kill. If I have a 6 shot snubby, that means I can easily kill 6 attackers. Of course, I went to Gunsite so I’ll never miss a shot in my life during a gunfight. EVER.

8) A gun is what you use to fight your way to a rifle. Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger did in “Commando”. This of course, happens all the time.

9) Red Dawn is also the best, most informative survival movie I ever watched.

10) Gold is of course, just shiny metal. After SHTF its only good for making bullets and fishing weights. In spite of a solid reputation as a form of wealth that goes back to prehistoric times and has kept that way without interruption for thousands of years, it’s only reasonable to think that ( once SHTF) that will change completely.

11) Going to work? Dude, its SHTF! You just sit around scratching your balls all day. Check every other disaster, socio-economical crisis or country collapse, there’s always two things in common: 1) People sit on their ass all day 2) No one needs or wants money. Money is just what you use to start fires and use as insulation in your shoes.

12) SHTF will be just what I have in mind. Thinking otherwise would be ridiculous.

FerFAL


The absolute worst part of this post is that it would seem to apply to everone here at one time or another in one way or another. I feel spanked.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:33:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By protus:
Red Dawn is also the best, most informative survival movie I ever watched


well least you got one thing correct ....

I wonder if you can watch reddawn on an IPOD..during TSHTF......



Yes and yes. I have Red Dawn on my IPOD touch for just such occasions.



Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:15:24 PM EST
Back to the OP

Madison Wi libtard credo:
Things would be so much safer if the government would just ban guns. They didn't have any idea what guns would evolve into when they wrote the constitution.

The last "I'm coming to your place" I got I looked at him and said don't waste your time you don't know the password to get in. He didn't think I was serious....
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