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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:03:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 11:04:36 AM EDT by ArmyofOne]
What is the Best State and county to live in if you wanted to be completely self sufficient?  Texas with a good growing climate and good gun laws?  Colorado with mild climate, mountains and gun friendly?  etc...  Tell me what your ideal area is.  I need to figure out how to add a poll to this.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 11:12:42 AM EDT
I think this has been hashed out before and Idaho had the best resources.  I am in Colorado and feel pretty comfortable in my setting
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 11:20:26 AM EDT
Wyoming, growing season isn't bad, hunting and fishing are amazing.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:53:25 PM EDT
this is impossible to answer.  Best state for growing your food many well suck for gun laws.  Better guns laws might also be a state with a poor track record for natural disasters.  ZGood state for both may be too close to large population centers, have tax rates too high, etc etc.  You decide.  Which is more important?  good agricultural climate or access to large amounts of surface water?  good gun laws or distance from population centers?  long warm growing seasons or good distance from hurricanes?
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:54:06 PM EDT
Access to fresh water trumps all imho. I would rather have 5 acres on a stream or with a pond then 500 acres in a arid environment.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:06:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lockinload:
I think this has been hashed out before and Idaho had the best resources.  I am in Colorado and feel pretty comfortable in my setting


You  must  be  upwind  of  those  fires ?
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:06:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmyofOne:
What is the Best State and county to live in if you wanted to be completely self sufficient?  Texas with a good growing climate and good gun laws?  Colorado with mild climate, mountains and gun friendly?  etc...  Tell me what your ideal area is.  I need to figure out how to add a poll to this.


For what? Steers?

Illinois certainly isn't good with regards to gun laws, but we have plenty of farmland. It's probably the direct opposite of Texas.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 3:22:39 PM EDT
as long as you have access to plenty of water, Texas is good for gardening. I'd suggest east texas as a good option since land there usually has good amounts of timber, lots of surface water, abundant game animals and very friendly gun laws. The hill country of central texas would be perfect if it only had more reliable water. I'd avoid west and far south texas. North texas can also be pretty good in areas northeast of Dallas.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 3:25:02 PM EDT
I prefer Oklahoma, although here lately it's getting more than it's fair share of liberals
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 3:31:13 PM EDT
Surprisingly,
a lot of people think the state they live in is best.

That is the way these threads usually turn out.

Then there are always the people that move to a different state,
then feel compelled to tell the HTF folks how some state laws should be changed to make things "just a little better"



Oh, and the worst spot in Texas, is still better than the best spot in other states.


Link Posted: 7/1/2012 3:45:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Surprisingly,
a lot of people think the state they live in is best.

That is the way these threads usually turn out.

Then there are always the people that move to a different state,
then feel compelled to tell the HTF folks how some state laws should be changed to make things "just a little better"



Oh, and the worst spot in Texas, is still better than the best spot in other states.




I was going to start a thread similar to this and am very curious in some actual data.  I think the best way to compare is to assume a "win the lotto" scenario where money is no option.  In that case, you could rate states on the following:

Government control of personal lives:  Gun control laws, hunting rules, tax rates, property taxes, building codes, etc

Climate:  growing seasons, overall comfort year round (obviously based on if you like to be cold, warm, or hot)  

Geography:  Land available at an affordable price (even though we are pretending we won the lotto, let's not get crazy.  your house will not be worth 2008 values again.......), types of animals available to hunt, cleanliness of water supplies, altitude above sea level, proximity to future natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, super volcanoes, chances of tornado, hurricane, wild fire, etc)

Since we would assume money is no option, having a large pond dug out, underground rivers tapped by wells, large cisterns buried for rainy season, etc would solve the arid climate or low rain areas.  Also, the ability to build large greenhouses or setup hydroponics would balance the sandy, rocky, and boggy areas.

With that in mind, if a state has lots of positives in the above areas without needing to "buy" balance then it would rate high.  If you need to build a biodome just to survive then it would rate near the bottom.

And for the record, Illinois is the third WORST state to live in (unless you live off the government and then it's the third BEST)
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 4:01:13 PM EDT
Read Strategic Relocation
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 4:07:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ajroyer:
<snip>
And for the record, Illinois is the third WORST state to live in (unless you live off the government and then it's the third BEST)


The Amish seem to have a pretty good life there without living off the government.

I think it really depends on the lifestyle you want to live.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 6:21:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Access to fresh water trumps all imho. I would rather have 5 acres on a stream or with a pond then 500 acres in a arid environment.


This says it all. Without water, there is no life.

buckmeister
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 6:23:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Oh, and the worst spot in Texas, is still better than the best spot in other states.


You ain't never lived in West Texas. Hell was patterned after it.

buckmeister

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 6:29:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 7:14:22 PM EDT by wshbrngr]
Originally Posted By buckmeister:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Oh, and the worst spot in Texas, is still better than the best spot in other states.


You ain't never lived in West Texas. Hell was patterned after it.

buckmeister

Lived in El Paso for a bit.

Guess you didn't notice the big grin and the hunker down guy I added to that statement.

However, I would rather live in Terlingua than anywhere in Kalifornia.
'It's a dry heat"

I travel a across the country with my job, and honestly, I have found lots of places that I could live.......
Parts of Tennessee and Arkansas both come to mind.

However, I would still choose Texas.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 6:44:48 PM EDT
You know, I don't mind Tennessee much at all, really.  I live in the Valley so there are very few chances for devastating storms, there's plenty of water, and plenty of hills to hide out in if needed.  The climate is pretty mild in the winter, and fairly hot in the summer, but the big thing in both seasons is the humidity which will make things worse.  The big advantage is the disaster part.  The only thing we really have to worry about around here are major floods, and I've seen tornados before I've seen bad floods here.

I'd say the biggest disadvantage is the population.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:13:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 7:13:53 PM EDT by buckmeister]
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Lived in El Paso for a bit.

El Paso has mountain views, which offer some distraction from the miles and miles of miles and miles common to most of the remains of the western portion. I lived in the Midland/Odessa area, now residing in good ole San Antone. With the recent drought (and its predicted continuation), water is a BIG issue west of I-35.

Anything over 100 degrees and the humidity matters little... it's just damned hot!

I have had the privilege of traveling through Arkansas and Tennessee. Saw my first clear running river in eastern Tennessee; don't have em in any part of Texas.  

Never been to Kalifonia. From what I hear, I ain't missed much.

buckmeister
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:19:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 7:22:09 PM EDT by wshbrngr]
We are northwest of San Antonio in Bandera Co.

Got 10acs and would be hard pressed to move anywhere else.

It's hot, but much more tolerable than the humidity in Corpus Christi where I grew up.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:28:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
We are northwest of San Antonio in Bandera Co.

Got 10acs and would be hard pressed to move anywhere else.

It's hot, but much more tolerable than the humidity in Corpus Christi where I grew up.


Beautiful country around Bandera. I second your sentiments about CC. That's some thick air down thar! Walkin's more like swimmin'.

buckmeister

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:39:37 PM EDT
I don't plan on ever leaving Florida.  Stick to the north and central parts of the state and you will find some nice land.  Weather that allows you to grow crops year round, plenty of drinking water available, more than enough fishing and hunting (in before the "your deer are the size of large dogs" crowd) and great gun laws.  

We have flaws too.  Hurricanes are always a threat and the southern part of the state leaves a lot to be desired.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:53:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chief1246:
I don't plan on ever leaving Florida.  Stick to the north and central parts of the state and you will find some nice land.  Weather that allows you to grow crops year round, plenty of drinking water available, more than enough fishing and hunting (in before the "your deer are the size of large dogs" crowd) and great gun laws.  

We have flaws too.  Hurricanes are always a threat and the southern part of the state leaves a lot to be desired.


I plan on owning land in Northern Florida someday.  My recently deceased Grandma lived there and I enjoyed visiting her remote location.

Our growing season is pretty short here in Utah but the good part is that we have a solid gravity fed watering system.  Snow falls in the mountains and melts into the reservoirs.  An excellent canal system brings the water down into the valley to water the crops.



Link Posted: 7/1/2012 8:53:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buckmeister:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Oh, and the worst spot in Texas, is still better than the best spot in other states.


You ain't never lived in West Texas. Hell was patterned after it.

buckmeister



When God created W Texas, he made a 1,000 acres and then photocopied the rest.

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 9:36:23 PM EDT
I lived in Del Rio for a while.  Other than Lake Amistad, I don't think I saw natural surface water for about 100mi.  

Parts of Colorado would be good, although water and growing seasons are an issue.
I'm thinking that Kentucky or Indiana might be good choices for agriculture.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:44:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buckmeister:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
We are northwest of San Antonio in Bandera Co.

Got 10acs and would be hard pressed to move anywhere else.

It's hot, but much more tolerable than the humidity in Corpus Christi where I grew up.


Beautiful country around Bandera. I second your sentiments about CC. That's some thick air down thar! Walkin's more like swimmin'.

buckmeister



I live north of Fredericksburg. The drought hit us hard, then this year the rains came back.  I hope the weather continues for a while.
A friend of mine is considering Costa Rica. Another has land and a spouse from Panama. Both would be a good place to disappear.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:57:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Access to fresh water trumps all imho. I would rather have 5 acres on a stream or with a pond then 500 acres in a arid environment.


DING DING DING
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 8:08:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 8:09:52 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Sometimes the location with all the wrong comfort, production, water, and convenience features might turn out to be your friend.



Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:25:11 PM EDT
I live in Minnesota. North of Brainard is God's Chosen Land. Love it up there. GREAT soil for growing around here, PLENTY of water (duh). Not much for natural disasters. Once you know how, the winters are not a big deal. Lots of Timber, wild game, fish... All without a major bear/mountain lion/poisonous critter problem. Some people still have only hunted game in their freezers.

Cons: We are the land of mosquitoes, an the "land of 10,000 taxes". When you are used to winter, 95 and humid sucks.

Population centers can be an issue St. Cloud and south.

Been from Canada to Texas (far south Texas) to NY State to South Dakota badlands. Love it here the best.

Texas does have Willie's Stuffed BBQ potatoes though........

my .02
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:36:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Originally Posted By ajroyer:
<snip>
And for the record, Illinois is the third WORST state to live in (unless you live off the government and then it's the third BEST)


The Amish seem to have a pretty good life there without living off the government.

I think it really depends on the lifestyle you want to live.


No love for the neighbor to the east? Geographically Indiana is almost exactly like IL, but with much better government & gun laws.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:53:42 AM EDT
Utah has to be near the top.  Seems to me that with all the LDS they would be the most self sufficient.  The less desperate people the better.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:16:44 AM EDT
I gotta think that it varies by which location you are familiar with.  While I am sure that there are more ideal spots than others, I would rather be faced with an environment that I am familiar with than an unfamiliar area any day of the week.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:08:43 PM EDT
New Hampshire has good gun laws and lots of water. We're slowly becoming "Northern Massachusetts" as they move north for the lakes, mountains and low taxes, and then vote. But we also have the Free State movement partially balancing them out.

I think I'd prefer parts of Idaho and Wyoming to the overpopulated east coast, except for one thing no one has mentioned yet: this is where the money is. I have a six-figure job and a nice home with 52 acres of woods and 1,100 feet of waterfront. I don't think I could match that in many other places.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:16:26 PM EDT
Food practically slaps you in the face in Oregon. A short walk gives you blackberries, salmon berries, thimble berries, Oregon grape, shellac, sour grass, pine needles, clover, and on, and on, and on. Deer, elk, racoon, squirrel, rabbit, duck, goose, and all sorts of other game animals are abundant. The creeks, rivers, bays, and ocean thrive with mussels, clams, oysters, crab, shrimp, salmon, halibut, albacore, crawfish, trout, steelhead, and on, and on, and on. The climate on the coast is temperate and rarely below freezing or above 90. There is abundant fresh water. Gun laws are not as good as AZ but pretty decent compared to their Southern neighbors. The coast experiences pretty severe weather and there is risk of tsunami and/or earthquake.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:21:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Sometimes the location with all the wrong comfort, production, water, and convenience features might turn out to be your friend.





This is actually getting to be a big part of my medium term survival plan. Short term (< 1 month) is bug in. After that, I plan to go to our bugout location in BFE Western AZ. There is nothing of any interest for miles but we have a well and are building up a decent long term stash of food, water, ammo, etc. If things look to stay bad for a long, long time, I might make the trek to my dad's property in OR.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:36:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Originally Posted By ajroyer:
<snip>
And for the record, Illinois is the third WORST state to live in (unless you live off the government and then it's the third BEST)


The Amish seem to have a pretty good life there without living off the government.

I think it really depends on the lifestyle you want to live.


No love for the neighbor to the east? Geographically Indiana is almost exactly like IL, but with much better government & gun laws.


I went to Indianapolis a year or two ago. I walked into the bar across the street from my hotel to get some dinner and was surprised to see people smoking inside!  Even though I quit smoking years ago and hate being immersed in it, I made the conscious choice to exercise my freedom of choice and sat down eat among other folks exercising their freedom of choice.

I came back to Illinois after that short trip and was shocked that people were crass enough to smoke within 15 ft of a building's entrance!  Who do they think they are?!  Don't they know that the state of Chicago has passed laws preventing that?

I like Indiana, but I hate being cold.  Maybe I could retire in the southern part somewhere, but Oregon is sounding nice based the post above.  Temps usually between 40 and 90 seems pretty sweet.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:11:06 PM EDT
For me family is the deal. And family is here in Illinois. No concealed carry sucks. Much is made of the FOID card. Don't be a felon, and get one. Not any real problem. Plus they make a bunch of AR's here in Illinois. Rivers and good farm land everywhere. Avoid the big cities. I've been riding a bike a lot to get in shape. Locally we have a bike trail that runs along an old RR right of way for 24 miles. One mile out of town and there is nothing. People drive the Interstate and paved roads, not gravel roads. You can be as alone as you want to be.

Don't rule out Illinois because you heard some online vendor won't ship ammo to Chicago or Cook county. Just don't live in Chicago or Cook county. Our Dem governor who claims a mandate won only 3 of the 102 counties. Think small town America. The bike trail goes through a couple of small towns. Republican and Ron Paul signs all over. Lots of freedom loving people and places in Illinois.

Scott
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:13:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
a lot of people think the state they live in is best.

Not me.

It would be perfect, except for the people, the state government, and the laws spawned by their unholy union.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 4:56:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter_gregg:

A friend of mine is considering Costa Rica. Another has land and a spouse from Panama. Both would be a good place to disappear.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


He'd be better off, just moving to California.

Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:04:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 5:06:00 AM EDT by zegermanznew]
Vermont. (or NH or ME)

Great fishing, hunting, freshwater everywhere, good growing season, and when thats over theres snow everywhere to store your meats. Plenty of wood fuel for cooking and warmth (I believe trees wont last long out west). Although in TX Im sure you could cook on a piece of steel in the sun, and a heater is probably never necessary.

Many people there already live this lifestyle, wood stoves are norm, hunters and homegrown food everywhere, many buy everything from a local source.

The land would be difficult for an enemy to navigate. Its not flat. And Canada's not far if need be.


All that, a ton of stuff Im forgetting, and Vermonters are truly one of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of living with.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:10:07 AM EDT
Arkansas, Northern Arkansas to be exact is pretty nice. Freshwater springs flowing, plentiful game, dense forest, good people.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:27:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:31:23 AM EDT
Vermont has great gun laws. cant have suppressors, though.

lots of local food, hunting fishing, etc.

the cold weather keeps the savages away, for the most part.

most importantly, great neighbors abound.

last year when the hurricane tore up a bunch of shit in VT, everyone banded together to help each other.

Guys on horseback riding over mountains to bring meds to towns who were inaccessible!!

Guys hiking miles overland to get in supplies to stranded communities.

no fistfights in gas lines.

It is truly amazing the difference in the quality of people makes.

Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:49:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tigermilk:
Vermont has great gun laws. cant have suppressors, though.

lots of local food, hunting fishing, etc.

the cold weather keeps the savages away, for the most part.

most importantly, great neighbors abound.

last year when the hurricane tore up a bunch of shit in VT, everyone banded together to help each other.

Guys on horseback riding over mountains to bring meds to towns who were inaccessible!!

Guys hiking miles overland to get in supplies to stranded communities.

no fistfights in gas lines.

It is truly amazing the difference in the quality of people makes.



That's what I'm talking about right there. No superdome action around here when SHTF.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 6:19:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hazmat:
For me family is the deal. And family is here in Illinois. No concealed carry sucks. Much is made of the FOID card. Don't be a felon, and get one. Not any real problem. Plus they make a bunch of AR's here in Illinois. Rivers and good farm land everywhere. Avoid the big cities. I've been riding a bike a lot to get in shape. Locally we have a bike trail that runs along an old RR right of way for 24 miles. One mile out of town and there is nothing. People drive the Interstate and paved roads, not gravel roads. You can be as alone as you want to be.

Don't rule out Illinois because you heard some online vendor won't ship ammo to Chicago or Cook county. Just don't live in Chicago or Cook county. Our Dem governor who claims a mandate won only 3 of the 102 counties. Think small town America. The bike trail goes through a couple of small towns. Republican and Ron Paul signs all over. Lots of freedom loving people and places in Illinois.

Scott


Growing up in Illinois i would ride a bike trail that was a old RR line, they tore up the track for a bike path,thirty miles round trip.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:27:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hazmat:
For me family is the deal. And family is here in Illinois. No concealed carry sucks. Much is made of the FOID card. Don't be a felon, and get one. Not any real problem. Plus they make a bunch of AR's here in Illinois. Rivers and good farm land everywhere. Avoid the big cities. I've been riding a bike a lot to get in shape. Locally we have a bike trail that runs along an old RR right of way for 24 miles. One mile out of town and there is nothing. People drive the Interstate and paved roads, not gravel roads. You can be as alone as you want to be.

Don't rule out Illinois because you heard some online vendor won't ship ammo to Chicago or Cook county. Just don't live in Chicago or Cook county. Our Dem governor who claims a mandate won only 3 of the 102 counties. Think small town America. The bike trail goes through a couple of small towns. Republican and Ron Paul signs all over. Lots of freedom loving people and places in Illinois.

Scott


This.  
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hazmat:
For me family is the deal. And family is here in Illinois. No concealed carry sucks. Much is made of the FOID card. Don't be a felon, and get one. Not any real problem. Plus they make a bunch of AR's here in Illinois. Rivers and good farm land everywhere. Avoid the big cities. I've been riding a bike a lot to get in shape. Locally we have a bike trail that runs along an old RR right of way for 24 miles. One mile out of town and there is nothing. People drive the Interstate and paved roads, not gravel roads. You can be as alone as you want to be.

Don't rule out Illinois because you heard some online vendor won't ship ammo to Chicago or Cook county. Just don't live in Chicago or Cook county. Our Dem governor who claims a mandate won only 3 of the 102 counties. Think small town America. The bike trail goes through a couple of small towns. Republican and Ron Paul signs all over. Lots of freedom loving people and places in Illinois.

Scott


And Chicago rules everything, and we continually have to fight against Chicago for every freedom we want to hang on to.  This state sucks.

90% of the state is rural, and we are punished by the 10% metropolitan area.  

We are the only state in the union without CCW.

You mention that we have AR manufacturers.  How about you address the manufacturers that fled the state?

Brutal summers, and cold winters.

I am out as soon as I finish my last year of college.



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