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Posted: 6/12/2009 9:54:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 9:54:22 PM EST by Forest]
My family/team will be three shooters. Choose three setups to optimize.

At least one long arm will be a lightweight 14.5 carbine.
A second will likely be an 18 or 20in precision oriented rifle, Krieger barrel
the third could be another 14.5 carbine, or a 16in recce, or???

I know there are many other considerations, but how would you decide for yourself?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:14:43 PM EST
need details who or what are we fighting, are we limited to semi auto civie stuff or can we go FA?


I would have one person with and DMR type set up and a medic bag. The other two would have 14.5 inch M-4's one with an M203 attached, the other would have a shotgun, all would have suppressors, NVGs, radios, rations etc.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:17:08 PM EST
atlatl
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:18:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 7:19:20 PM EST by Geohans]
That's a good answer, thinking the same direction.

scenario is a family, either holed up or on the move; materiel other than weapons is the next question, for now, focusing on weapons.

So one DMR, and one carbine/one recce? Or one DMR, 2 carbines?

what's atlatl?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:19:34 PM EST
S.P.A.S Twelve
Uh-zee nine mila metah
Phased plasma rifle fouwty whaat range
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:25:31 PM EST
SBR, if you're not dead-set on having two 14.5/16" rifles.

14.5" carbine

SPR

I think that covers the bases for the most part. I might opt for a recce rifle with an ACOG instead of the 14.5" though.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:34:21 PM EST
B44T, please step out of the vehicle, close your eyes and touch your nose. No, your NOSE!
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:21:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By B44T:
S.P.A.S Twelve
Uh-zee nine mila metah
Phased plasma rifle fouwty whaat range


Colt .45 long slide w/ lazerrrrr sighting(who's counting?)
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:03:28 PM EST
AR of some sort- carbine length
308 scoped rifle
Glock 17
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:27:38 PM EST
Mk18 mod 0

Colt factory SBRed lower
Colt cqbc 10.3 upper
LMT Sopmod
KAC RAS/VFG/rail covers
Surefire m951 kit 02
ARMS #40 BUIS
Aocg Ta01nsn
KAC NTA can

Mk12 mod 0

All the usual mk12 mod 0 goodness with an LMT Sopmod, leupy mk4 m3 3-10x40 optic
and OPS 12th can

m4a1 clone

Colt 6921
Colt whatever lower
KAC RAS/VFG/rail covers
Sureife m951 kit 02
LMT Sopmod
matech BUIS
Acog Ta31F

If SHTF, all would be painted in a desert tan/brown colour, tan backing and random CB highlights.
Everyone would be packing a g19 or HK USPC 9mm. The 3 main ar15s I plan to own also
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:04:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Geohans:
That's a good answer, thinking the same direction.

scenario is a family, either holed up or on the move; materiel other than weapons is the next question, for now, focusing on weapons.

So one DMR, and one carbine/one recce? Or one DMR, 2 carbines?

what's atlatl?


It's a device for throwing a spear. Will be outlawed by dem libtards just before they prohibit the spears.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 3:46:36 AM EST
I can tell you my (our) exact set up. I would be carrying my Saiga ak in 7.62x39, the wife would have her M1 carbine, and my buddy would have either his Bushmaster AR 15 or AR 10. There is no commonality in ammo but we can all hit what we aim at becouse its what we shoot on a regular basis.
Sidearms would include Glocks, Smith & Wessons and Rugers.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:24:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
Originally Posted By Geohans:
That's a good answer, thinking the same direction.

scenario is a family, either holed up or on the move; materiel other than weapons is the next question, for now, focusing on weapons.

So one DMR, and one carbine/one recce? Or one DMR, 2 carbines?

what's atlatl?


It's a device for throwing a spear. Will be outlawed by dem libtards just before they prohibit the spears.



nope, they'll just lobby to ban atlatls and in doing so will create panic buying until spears are expensive and damn hard to find, and the people with atlatls that didn't buy spears and stack them deep when they were available will not have any to throw.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:25:57 AM EST
Flamethrower

Ma Deuce

120mm smoothbore cannon (attached to an M1A2 Abrams tank)

OBTW I'll need a fully fueled tanker truck along with a squad of light infantry in a Bradley and maybe a Predator drone overhead loaded with a few laser guided munitions to open a few doors!

FTMFW!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:45:36 AM EST
I think what is more important then the weapons is the training.

Each member has to have the mindset, then the skill set, and lastly the tools.
Saying each member of this 3 person team has the mindset and the skill set, weapons matter a good bit less.
That said.

I don't think for most practical purposes that an SPR like set up is practical. It is heavier, with the more power scope, not as useful as an all around rifle.

If say you went with 3 M4 like rifles, 2 with reflex sights, and 1 with an ACOG. The best shooter has the ACOG and uses it to engage out to 600 yards. That can easily be done by a decent shooter with a standard ACOG. That would be a good bit lighter and handier then a longer heavier rifle, and still plenty find for CQB.

I think it would be best for the small team to use the ammo ammo for magazine and ammo interchangeability.

However a good argument can be made for a person with a 7.62x39 AK in a small team. This team member could use his rifle to penetrate deeper cover, and provide suppressive fire using drums. However it seems to me that keeping the same style of weapons and ammo is the better choice.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:05:10 AM EST
Postal0311 do you know that AK 7.62X39 is not the same power as 308 Winchester AKA 7.62X51?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:33:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Postal0311 do you know that AK 7.62X39 is not the same power as 308 Winchester AKA 7.62X51?


Yes, but the 7.62x39 ball will penetrate more hard surfaces then M855 .223. It is a hell of a lot cheaper then .308, and you can easily get higher capacity firearms in it. I did not say the argument for 7.62x39 was for range, but for short range penetration and stopping power.

I would advise against the SPR like rifle for the small team because it is less handy for close range work, and if you are going to have a dedicated longer range gun, it might as well be a .308.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:46:59 AM EST
One thing to remember about range...
The difference in range between a SBR and a SPR is life in prison or death sentence if civilization normalizes at all.

Self Defence is hard to claim at 400yards.

My vote...2)M4's 1)870

BK
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:38:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 7:40:16 AM EST by Lympago]
Holding down the fort:

2 14.5 or 16 inch AR's set up best for the users

and one 16 or 18inch 7.62x51mm battlerifle for putting fire on those using against heavier cover, body armor and vehicles.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––
On foot trying to survive by filling your bellies at the same time:

Same, but someone/s carrying a Ciener .22lr conversion for the Ar's and .22lr rounds.


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:32:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 9:35:24 AM EST by jeffers_mz]
NFA:

DM carries either a comp AR in 5.56 good to say, 500, or a .308 bolt gun good to 800, maybe 1000 with a tailwind. DM might substitute an M3 for a sidearm. Spotter with a carbine, M4 and optic, third man tasked with area suppression and fire support, M60 or M203.

Non-NFA:

DM carries either a comp 5.56 or bolt .308 plus sidearm of choice, and the two others carry M4geries, sidearms, and lots of ammo. If the DM went with .308, I could see swapping one of the M4geries for an M1A.

Either way, choice of long gun depends on terrain and objective. Precision 5.56 standardizes ammo loadout among all three, but .308 has longer legs and better penetration.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:49:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Geohans:
My family/team will be three shooters. Choose three setups to optimize.

At least one long arm will be a lightweight 14.5 carbine.
A second will likely be an 18 or 20in precision oriented rifle, Krieger barrel
the third could be another 14.5 carbine, or a 16in recce, or???

I know there are many other considerations, but how would you decide for yourself?


Depends on "family". Are they small people? Child? I would go kiss and have 2 lightweight ARs. If someone gets hurt and the other's rifle craps out the transition would not be a factor. The DM could have the long gun (you) and the weight should not bother you too much. Keep it simple. WJ
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:25:32 AM EST
1 ak 74 for the wife. couple ak 47s for the kids and myself and a shotgun

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:35:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By stuckincal:
1 ak 74 for the wife. couple ak 47s for the kids and myself and a shotgun



I could see all 74s but having one rifle different, different mags and different ammo, no. Keep it simple. They are not highly trained operators, so the more simple the things the better. Also for his AO (Az) I think a larger chance of longer distance engagements. In the woods in the east I could see the AKs but not out west.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:48:32 AM EST
git my votes in for da foootay.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:58:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:01:10 AM EST by bigshooter81]
low drag configuration:

Wife: Noveske N4 14.5 carbine with aimpoint, PX4 .40 in concealed holster. reloads: 2x14rd .40 , 2x30 pmags

Myself: Noveske Recce with aimpoint and tripler, PX4 .40 in open carry holster. reloads: 2x14rd .40 , 4x30 pmags

Backpack: 18" spr upper with 4.5 x 14 magnified optics and bipod, 20 rd mags loaded with precision handloads, and extra pmags of TAP, Binos, FAK, and water.

Obviously if we were bugging out we would have more gear.


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:22:10 AM EST
Heres my vote. Nothing to fancy.
FAL 18inch Barrel.
AR Midlength 16inch barrel
AR 20inch
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:48:29 PM EST
I'd go with the 2 ar's and add a Scoped M1A with the correct cheek rizer.

Arizona bring's longer distance shots to mind but I'm partial to the M1A platform

A shotgun in the BOV is a must
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 2:21:49 PM EST
why did you ask if you already picked the 3 arms?

Id personally go with two ARs and a .308 battle rifle like an FN fal or an M1a1 as a heavy. IF i had to pick ARs being 2 options which is fine. I would strongly suggest you add a heavy rifle to the mix with a bipod and open sights like an FN FAL and have plenty of ammo. Poodle shooters are cute and all but a volume of fire from a .30 cal will definatly keep somones head down and let thoose fast movers with the ARs work an angle on them.

Infact optimally for a 3man I would go with ..

short light AR

a slung 20in heavy scoped AR with a combat shotgun for hand carry

.308 Battle rifle for volume of fire. with ATLEAST 200 rounds in mags ready to rock heck even better if its AP

That way the guy with the FNfal can cover and the heavy AR ccann work out wide to get an angle on the position and start eliminating while the light weight can either cover the flank of advance ect. Id definatly want heavy hitting volume , precision accuracy and a mobile.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 2:44:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:20:11 PM EST by Miami_JBT]
3x SBR FN PS90 with Surefire X300 with Tape switch

Compact, high capacity, light weight, concealable.

If it me and my family.... we're staying close, avoiding folks, and avoiding fights. The key to survival is to not get into firefights.

Hell..... I'd load out like this...

5.11 Select Carry Sling Pack, it can hold a SBR SMG and a pistol plus spare mags, water bottles, and hydration bladder.

Front pouch holds a GLOCK 22 .40S&W with Surefire X300 and spare batteries
Rear main pouch holds the SBR FN PS90 with four spare 50rd mags.
Hydration bladder with a couple of stripped MREs
Water bottle in water bottle pouch
Spare pistol mags in secondary pouch along with first aid kit

It's a nondescript back pack that holds a lot of fire power..... I want to stick out as least as possible. Sometimes showing force works in your favor..... but also laying low and not flashing "look at me" also works.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 2:55:18 PM EST
2 midwieght weapons (ie: ar or ak)
1 m1a

quick change optics on the m4s to go from red dots to long range scopes. quality distance optic on the m1a

that way you have good fighting capability with all three weapons and good range with the m1a
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:15:03 PM EST
Seeing as I don't live with my family but rather a bunch of 11b's. I would want a standard fireteam armament.
1x M249
1x M203
1x M16

I think we could handle most threats we would see here in the US between us.

James
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:51:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 4:54:04 PM EST by PolyTechKID]
My 2 cents.....

three lightweight AR carbines, one with a magnified optic. If your bugging out/ on the move you'll most likely have a lot of other stuff that you're carrrying so a nice light rifle (while still being reliable, not talking superlight fragile) cause ounces equal pounds....

Of course I would be inclined to add one heavier rifle to the mix, something 308, semi, with some glass on it....

PTK
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:16:08 PM EST
ONLY 3 ?

That's pretty limiting .

Without any info on the 3 ,I say this :

1.Colt 6920
2.Colt 6920
3.DSA FAL .Accurized with an 18 inch barrel and a good scope or ACOG .


-or-
1.Colt 6920
2.Colt 6920
3.Full length accurized AR also with a good optic .

Either way ,I'd set t up with 2 high-speed carbines and one DMR set up .

.308 gives an advantage for the DMR ,but so does commonality of parts and ammo .

I'm just not into the precision bolt for the DMR role for a small group .
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:35:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By BadKarma555:

My vote...2)M4's 1)870

BK


I second this setup.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:18:15 AM EST
Go with what you have.
If I could pick any 3 then I would standardize with 3 AR15's with M68 CCO's and lights and sig226 side arms with as many loaded mags as we could move with and stay low/out of sight. Maybe 1 870 or something on the back of the most qualified person.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:40:58 AM EST
My three would be:
Semi auto 308 w/ optics: long range and quick put downs

AR-15 5.56 of any type but prefer M4 style, Good range, light recoil, can haul more ammo, quick follow up shots

12 Ga pump shotgun. For the close in stuff.

And of course wed all have our side arms already strapped to our hips

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:39:22 AM EST
I'm a believer in keeping the weight down.

1 AR-15 with some type of reflex sight
1 AR15 with some type of reflex sight
1 PTR-91K with a 33-8 model acog.

No more then 5 loaded mags for each rifle. I'm not into seeking trouble, I'm into getting away from it.

Australian Peel FTMFW

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:17:13 AM EST
In an Urban\suburban situation I'm thinking a 9mm Hi-cap pistol, an AK, and a 12ga.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:38:36 AM EST
G17's for all.

1 will have a 10'' sbr AR a, precision rifle in 308
1 will have a m4gery
1 will have a shotgun
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:08:02 AM EST
For the kid: precision mk82 big scope NVD and 50 mags. Jr covers me.

For the wife: precision AR 26in heavy barrel big scope, NVD, and at least 100 mags. She covers Jr, and can bump fire if the need arises.

For me: 16in AR heads up aiming device, NVD, laser, light, and 130 mags. It is my job to close with the objective.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:48:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 5:15:38 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By Postal0311:

I think what is more important then the weapons is the training.

Each member has to have the mindset, then the skill set, and lastly the tools ...



+ 1.

Are the first two already firmly in place ? If not, then dissecting weapon selection in this thread pretty much a waste of your time ...

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:21:06 AM EST
OK, I'll play too...

1 ea. M1A with scope in a Basset mount. You can remove the mount/scope to use the irons for "fast and furious" and reinstall the mount/scope for no loss of zero long range precision.

2 ea. ARs 16", good for "what ails ya" from up close to mid-ranges. Common ammo, mags, parts, and functions.

3 ea. sidearms caliber/style are shooter dependent based on their physical abilities and skills. Common caliber and style would be preferred but, they're for "up close and ugly" so what ever makes the individual more effective in that environment is what to get.

Skills, ability, and TACTICS are critical regardless of the technology. I learned a long time ago in the Army that advanced technology does not preclude the need for good tacitics.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:38:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:38:43 AM EST by protus]
player 1- AK 47, g17
player 2- AK 47 , g17
player 3- AK47( with optics), G17

i win...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:51:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
For the kid: precision mk82 big scope NVD and 50 mags. Jr covers me.

For the wife: precision AR 26in heavy barrel big scope, NVD, and at least 100 mags. She covers Jr, and can bump fire if the need arises.

For me: 16in AR heads up aiming device, NVD, laser, light, and 130 mags. It is my job to close with the objective.



You are think like a fighting unit. This is his family. There will be no replacements in the pipeline for when you get shot "closing with the objective". It's a family that needs to protect themselves, not a combat unit. No resupply, no re-enforcements. KISS. The best way to survive a fight is to not get in one. How many firefights do you expect to win? How many do you think a housewife and a child will be in before they are dead? 310 mags? Bump firing? Really? WJ
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:18:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Windjammer223:
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
For the kid: precision mk82 big scope NVD and 50 mags. Jr covers me.

For the wife: precision AR 26in heavy barrel big scope, NVD, and at least 100 mags. She covers Jr, and can bump fire if the need arises.

For me: 16in AR heads up aiming device, NVD, laser, light, and 130 mags. It is my job to close with the objective.



You are think like a fighting unit. This is his family. There will be no replacements in the pipeline for when you get shot "closing with the objective". It's a family that needs to protect themselves, not a combat unit. No resupply, no re-enforcements. KISS. The best way to survive a fight is to not get in one. How many firefights do you expect to win? How many do you think a housewife and a child will be in before they are dead? 310 mags? Bump firing? Really? WJ


Thank You WJ223

I was waiting for someone to catch the bs in my post, and was tempted to start a thread. On foot the load I posted is not realistic. In the post I detailed myself to "close with the objective" carrying 100 pounds of ammo, the wife gets 130 pounds of ammo, and the kid is detailed to carry a 60+ pound gun with at least 150 pounds of ammo. There are not a lot of grown men that can carry that much weight for a day.

My point is that lots of folks don't stop to add up the weight that they expect themselves and their family to carry.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:31:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Geohans:
My family/team will be three shooters. Choose three setups to optimize.


I know there are many other considerations, but how would you decide for yourself?


I'd have my group of three using guns they've trained with and have a thorough understanding of how they work and how to keep them running. Personally, I'd take my pal who's been to classes and shoots his Garand quite well over ANY untrained armchair commando with $10K in gun, gear and ammo.

I'd NOT choose any setups based upon what "sounds" cool or looks stylish.

How much training does your team have?

John
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:33:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigshooter81:
low drag configuration:

Wife: Noveske N4 14.5 carbine with aimpoint, PX4 .40 in concealed holster. reloads: 2x14rd .40 , 2x30 pmags

Myself: Noveske Recce with aimpoint and tripler, PX4 .40 in open carry holster. reloads: 2x14rd .40 , 4x30 pmags

Backpack: 18" spr upper with 4.5 x 14 magnified optics and bipod, 20 rd mags loaded with precision handloads, and extra pmags of TAP, Binos, FAK, and water.

Obviously if we were bugging out we would have more gear.




Couple of questions, sir.

How much does your load-out of gun, backpack, etc. weigh?
How far have you carried all that?

John
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 1:34:06 PM EST
1. sharp stick
2. bolos
3. swingline stapler
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 2:09:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Originally Posted By Windjammer223:
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
For the kid: precision mk82 big scope NVD and 50 mags. Jr covers me.

For the wife: precision AR 26in heavy barrel big scope, NVD, and at least 100 mags. She covers Jr, and can bump fire if the need arises.

For me: 16in AR heads up aiming device, NVD, laser, light, and 130 mags. It is my job to close with the objective.



You are think like a fighting unit. This is his family. There will be no replacements in the pipeline for when you get shot "closing with the objective". It's a family that needs to protect themselves, not a combat unit. No resupply, no re-enforcements. KISS. The best way to survive a fight is to not get in one. How many firefights do you expect to win? How many do you think a housewife and a child will be in before they are dead? 310 mags? Bump firing? Really? WJ


Thank You WJ223

I was waiting for someone to catch the bs in my post, and was tempted to start a thread. On foot the load I posted is not realistic. In the post I detailed myself to "close with the objective" carrying 100 pounds of ammo, the wife gets 130 pounds of ammo, and the kid is detailed to carry a 60+ pound gun with at least 150 pounds of ammo. There are not a lot of grown men that can carry that much weight for a day.

My point is that lots of folks don't stop to add up the weight that they expect themselves and their family to carry.


Boy am I glad you responded as you did. I sure don't want this forum to turn into GD. Thanks! WJ
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 2:54:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
My 2 cents.....

three lightweight AR carbines, one with a magnified optic. If your bugging out/ on the move you'll most likely have a lot of other stuff that you're carrrying so a nice light rifle (while still being reliable, not talking superlight fragile) cause ounces equal pounds....

Of course I would be inclined to add one heavier rifle to the mix, something 308, semi, with some glass on it....

PTK

These are my thoughts as well. 3 ARs in the hands of even marginally trained individuals will be a heck of a lot for any bad guy(s) to deal with. I'd personally skip a battle rifle as I don't think it would add much in most "realistic" situations though I may be inclined to toss one FAL or precision .308 into the mix depending on the circumstances.
I assume that this is about a family of 3 who is on the move...otherwise if we are defending a home then why not just set a few 1919's up in the living room
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 2:58:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Originally Posted By Windjammer223:
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
For the kid: precision mk82 big scope NVD and 50 mags. Jr covers me.

For the wife: precision AR 26in heavy barrel big scope, NVD, and at least 100 mags. She covers Jr, and can bump fire if the need arises.

For me: 16in AR heads up aiming device, NVD, laser, light, and 130 mags. It is my job to close with the objective.



You are think like a fighting unit. This is his family. There will be no replacements in the pipeline for when you get shot "closing with the objective". It's a family that needs to protect themselves, not a combat unit. No resupply, no re-enforcements. KISS. The best way to survive a fight is to not get in one. How many firefights do you expect to win? How many do you think a housewife and a child will be in before they are dead? 310 mags? Bump firing? Really? WJ


Thank You WJ223

I was waiting for someone to catch the bs in my post, and was tempted to start a thread. On foot the load I posted is not realistic. In the post I detailed myself to "close with the objective" carrying 100 pounds of ammo, the wife gets 130 pounds of ammo, and the kid is detailed to carry a 60+ pound gun with at least 150 pounds of ammo. There are not a lot of grown men that can carry that much weight for a day.

My point is that lots of folks don't stop to add up the weight that they expect themselves and their family to carry.


Mea culpa.

A few years after college I put together a BOB and was so proud of myself. It fit (barely) into a large Alice pack on a .mil frame. I managed, somehow, to get it put on and saw myself in a mirror as I tried to walk with it on. It was comical.

It weighed over 50 pounds!

Today, I've got BOBs just in case and they weigh less than 15 pounds.

John
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