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Posted: 2/6/2016 5:39:50 PM EDT
Hey does anyone know what prisons emergencies plans are in the event of a grid down/TEOTWAWKI situation?  I presume push comes to shove the guards would just throw the doors open and walk away and we would have hundreds of thousands of felons roaming the streets?

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 5:53:27 PM EDT
Guards just walk, screw them inmates.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 6:00:27 PM EDT
Doubtful...Although I'm not a Correctional Officer, I do know a few and have read many discussions about this on this board and others.  Personally, I tend to hold to the belief that prisoners would be kept in their cells and/or killed if things were really bad.  Seems no one really knows or does not publicly want to say, but if a true SHTF scenario played out which affected lots of states across the country, I would not want to be a prisoner at the hands of a bunch of guards who don't care for, nor really trust, the prisoners in the first place.  Opening up the doors and saying good luck to them is not likely to happen.  Many of the guards live in these communities or neighboring ones.  Would you really let "so and so" loose if you know he is truly a violent criminal who will definitely cause others harm???  Just don't see your concerns being a reality.  But hey, I'm just giving you a personal opinion with no experience to back up anything.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 6:09:50 PM EDT
I have a faint memory of a tsunami warning that happened here in Kodiak back in the early 90s. As i recall they just cut everyone loose at the KPD jail.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 6:50:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Oldmikey:
I have a faint memory of a tsunami warning that happened here in Kodiak back in the early 90s. As i recall they just cut everyone loose at the KPD jail.
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Huge difference between jails and prisons.  If there had been, say a rapist or murderer, he would not have been "cut loose."

Some prisoners in jails are awaiting trial, but most are in for short term sentences for misdemeanors.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:27:21 PM EDT
In the Stephen King book The Stand the prisoners were left in their cells to starve as I recall.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:01:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 9:02:44 PM EDT by jkm]
They wouldn't have the heart to leave them inside. Most are drugs, burg, assaults...not too many killers.

Depends on the level of prison. You'd probably see no difference with the lesser risk ones...they are all in and out all the time now.

Some supermax? That would be bad.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:15:30 PM EDT
One place I worked at had plans for a local McD to cater to the jail.  

In a true SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, I bet the guards just walk away, leaving the incarcerated to starve to death.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:25:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 9:29:02 PM EDT by seek2]
Originally Posted By dogduster2:
Hey does anyone know what prisons emergencies plans are in the event of a grid down/TEOTWAWKI situation?  I presume push comes to shove the guards would just throw the doors open and walk away and we would have hundreds of thousands of felons roaming the streets?

Thoughts?
View Quote


This is documented in what happened during Katrina. IIRC, they let the low-risk inmates out on the promise to re-group later, and kept the higher risk inmates in cells.
When the flooding happened, the guards bailed out and people were drowning and starving and setting signal fires to get attention from outside.

eta: Recent VICE story on this subject

Human Rights Watch story on same event, not long after.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 7:09:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By seek2:


This is documented in what happened during Katrina. IIRC, they let the low-risk inmates out on the promise to re-group later, and kept the higher risk inmates in cells.
When the flooding happened, the guards bailed out and people were drowning and starving and setting signal fires to get attention from outside.

eta: Recent VICE story on this subject

Human Rights Watch story on same event, not long after.
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Originally Posted By seek2:
Originally Posted By dogduster2:
Hey does anyone know what prisons emergencies plans are in the event of a grid down/TEOTWAWKI situation?  I presume push comes to shove the guards would just throw the doors open and walk away and we would have hundreds of thousands of felons roaming the streets?

Thoughts?


This is documented in what happened during Katrina. IIRC, they let the low-risk inmates out on the promise to re-group later, and kept the higher risk inmates in cells.
When the flooding happened, the guards bailed out and people were drowning and starving and setting signal fires to get attention from outside.

eta: Recent VICE story on this subject

Human Rights Watch story on same event, not long after.


VICE isn't worth the time it takes to watch.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 9:27:24 AM EDT
I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 9:47:34 AM EDT
Lockdown!!!!      See ya.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 9:51:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By hankforker:
I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.
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If the  prison looses power the doors all open?
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 10:02:53 AM EDT
There is probably some O PLAN somewhere locked up in the DOJ or Mt. Weather that will never see the light of day unless whom ever is the president signs some order that covers this.

Link Posted: 2/7/2016 10:04:46 AM EDT
The plan when I was a CO was to arrange with judges to have locally un-sentenced and sentenced inmates released in a long term emergency.
Guys in on parole violations are a concern for the state to tell local facilities what to do with them
Back in '93 I was still a CO and the big blizzard hit that January.
We couldn't get relief for three days
Guys were locked in their cell and only minimal movement of inmates was allowed.
The jail back then only had a staff of four COs, and we took turns sleeping, 2 on 2 off.
I had my BOB in my car and grabbed my sleeping bag once it got clear we were going to be there a while.
The other guys either borrowed my bag when I wasn't using it or made do with the cheap thin inmate blankets

We had generator power that would run for a few days on a full tank, so its not like there would be a pressing need to come up with a plan in a day or two.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 2:20:57 AM EDT
prisoners would be secured, thats all i want to say about it
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 2:29:46 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By fighter443:
If the  prison looses power the doors all open?
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Originally Posted By fighter443:



Originally Posted By hankforker:

I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.




If the  prison looses power the doors all open?
where i work all door secure with keys

 
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 2:49:54 AM EDT
Years ago when I went to work at the correctional facility in my area I asked about plan for such a contingency, but was nearly laughed at. "The world hasn't ever come to an end yet" they scoffed. Essentially, beyond a fairly minor disruption they have NO plan. NONE. I felt better instantly.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 3:06:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2016 3:07:18 AM EDT by GlutealCleft]
The only correctional officer I've known personally had such complete hatred and disdain for the prisoners, I'm pretty sure he'd walk away without opening the doors, and never give it a second thought.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 3:15:49 AM EDT
I've definitely wondered about this.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 11:30:44 AM EDT
They will not be released. Doors to not magically unlock when the power goes out. In this area I am an SME.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 1:26:16 PM EDT
History is not a good reference as everything has happened.  Even recent history has examples of status quo,  summary execution, left to rot, and open doors.

Life goal, stay out of prison.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 3:18:08 PM EDT
Spent some years a CO from 2010-2014. I was also a KS NG guy during that time. I know that in a situation like that the National Guard will come in and take control typically.

If they didn't, the doors would just remain shut. When the power goes out the doors have to be manually opened with what basically amounts to a prybar with a big Torx head on it from above the door and is protected by a big metal guard that has to be taken off first with the same tool. That was the system we've had, and I've seen a lot of similar systems on shows like Lockdown and such.

Me and my CO buddies in my cell house were all ex military and such, and had plenty of conversations like this. We even had made our own kind of contingency plan since my best friend was the Control Room officer on my shift, which is where the Armory was. I know most of the COs that worked up there would of went along with keeping them locked up. No way you're going to release them all in that type of situation.. we'd of wound up dead.

Not many inmates repay acts of kindness with acts of kindness.

There are about 2500 inmates at the facility we worked at, 900 behind the walls of the max unit where I spent my 8 hours a day. We figured 900 inmates behind 30 foot walls with controlled access points, etc.

Our actual plan was to basically escort out the ones that weren't too bad. Which we figured would of left us about half the populace. And then we knew that the armory had about 10 thousand rounds of 9mm to go with the SR9s, and a lot more of .223 for the Mini-14s. Not to mention .38 for the GP100s and the 12g pumps. Basically enough rounds to "fix" the rest of the Max prison populace... Hypothetically of course.

And then we would be the new owners of the best fort in the surrounding area. Lots of food, contingency generator with lots of diesel, high thick walls, controlled access points, and a great FOV around the prison. Oh, and the armored bus.

Link Posted: 2/8/2016 3:51:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hankforker:
I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.
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locks release on power failure?  that seems less than ideal
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 5:33:51 PM EDT
I have been through a dozen prisons and even more jails. They aren't secure to any extent without supervision. Its not like you picture in the movies. Most inmates are in dormitory style housing and the fences are defeatable if nobody was looking. Certainly each prison has some more secure housing and each state has some high security areas.

For the most part, typical jails and prisons could leave the gate open and 90% of the inmates would stay put. The reason they aren't escaping is not the walls or gates, its the mandatory sentence for escaping. When that mandatory sentence or the threat of SHTF develops, it'll be mayhem.

There are 5-20% of inmates that are mentally ill anarchist that are another story.

Link Posted: 2/8/2016 5:44:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:

locks release on power failure?  that seems less than ideal
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
Originally Posted By hankforker:
I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.

locks release on power failure?  that seems less than ideal


No the locks will not release, but the stun fence will go down. The prison is large general population dormitories of about 300 each. No cells, its basically just a big open building with a few locked offices and two crash gates to seperate two main dorms. They will eventually be able to break through the dorm windows/bars and get outside. Once outside they will be able to breach the fence without much trouble. Really without too much trouble even with the stun fence on if there is nobody there to do anything to stop them.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 5:45:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By robpiat:
I have been through a dozen prisons and even more jails. They aren't secure to any extent without supervision. Its not like you picture in the movies. Most inmates are in dormitory style housing and the fences are defeatable if nobody was looking. Certainly each prison has some more secure housing and each state has some high security areas.

For the most part, typical jails and prisons could leave the gate open and 90% of the inmates would stay put. The reason they aren't escaping is not the walls or gates, its the mandatory sentence for escaping. When that mandatory sentence or the threat of SHTF develops, it'll be mayhem.

There are 5-20% of inmates that are mentally ill anarchist that are another story.

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This.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 5:16:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:


VICE isn't worth the time it takes to watch.
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:
Originally Posted By seek2:
Originally Posted By dogduster2:
Hey does anyone know what prisons emergencies plans are in the event of a grid down/TEOTWAWKI situation?  I presume push comes to shove the guards would just throw the doors open and walk away and we would have hundreds of thousands of felons roaming the streets?

Thoughts?


This is documented in what happened during Katrina. IIRC, they let the low-risk inmates out on the promise to re-group later, and kept the higher risk inmates in cells.
When the flooding happened, the guards bailed out and people were drowning and starving and setting signal fires to get attention from outside.

eta: Recent VICE story on this subject

Human Rights Watch story on same event, not long after.


VICE isn't worth the time it takes to watch.


I like the show but because Bill Maher is the producer the show has liberal tendencies
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 12:36:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2016 12:37:29 PM EDT by BUCK1911]
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Originally Posted By hankforker:
I work in a prison. If shit got bad enough that large numbers of security were abandoning post, I figure we will send in a few days worth of bagged lunches and then GTFO. That being said, with the way our prison is set up, they will allEveryone left alive will eventually get out after the generator power goes down.
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I keep thinking about the power going out and all the doors opening and keep thinking this is how we get this coming up the driveway....

Link Posted: 2/9/2016 1:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2016 1:07:59 PM EDT by W_E_G]
what would Mickey and Mallory do?

Link Posted: 2/9/2016 2:54:57 PM EDT
I've wondered a lot about this.  There's a county jail about 10 miles away in which several guards were indicted for working for a gang that "ran" the prison.  Guards were smuggling in cell phones, drugs, etc.  Two female guards even got pregnant by gang member inmates.

In jails like that where local gangs exert a lot of control over the facility, would guards be too afraid or intimidated to do anything but let inmates out?
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 12:53:03 AM EDT
I work in a jail and have been asking this question for nearly 15 years. Still have not been given a straight answer. I think it largely depends on a number of factors. What is the incident? How long lasting will it be? Who is in charge, on site, when the event occurs? I have heard everything from lock them in to throw open the doors. It is the type of thing that is thought about but not actually planned for.

I just hope when something big kicks off I am either home or I have one of the better supervisors in charge.

In a throw the doors open scenario we would make a bad situation worse for anyone living within five miles of the jail in an hour. Dumping 1000 plus people with no resources and little self control into a small scale disaster would force it large scale quickly. Like a locust plague and Mad Max hooligans combined.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 5:05:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stumps:
I work in a jail and have been asking this question for nearly 15 years. Still have not been given a straight answer. I think it largely depends on a number of factors. What is the incident? How long lasting will it be? Who is in charge, on site, when the event occurs? I have heard everything from lock them in to throw open the doors. It is the type of thing that is thought about but not actually planned for.

I just hope when something big kicks off I am either home or I have one of the better supervisors in charge.

In a throw the doors open scenario we would make a bad situation worse for anyone living within five miles of the jail in an hour. Dumping 1000 plus people with no resources and little self control into a small scale disaster would force it large scale quickly. Like a locust plague and Mad Max hooligans combined.
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Same at my facility, there are theory's but no hard plans. I hope I'm not working that night.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 2:23:01 PM EDT
Jails for the most part hold people who have not seen a judge and have not been judged guilty.  I personally would expect them to get cut loose.  Now in some cases some communities build their jails larger than they need so the state will pay them to house felons.  A felon has been before the judge and is judged guilty and the town or whatever is paid to house him.  Housing of felons in jails became common as prisons got overcrowded.



Also keep in mind that in many cases some folks have done almost all their time in a jail before things complete, so in many cases people who are going to get a very short sentance will do their time in a jail.



Many folks have no clue how close they live to some jail or prison so play on google and also spend some time reading websites that discuss stuff for inmates or officers.  Some stuff for officers requires someone to prove they are an officer to get full access to the site but most sites allow some access to all folks.  



Now, for prisons it comes down to one of those things where it might depend.  Here in tn you have a lot of prisons run by the state itself so state employees work there.  But cca has contracts in tn and their employees work some prisons.



Tn has had some issues with staffing over the past year so some discussions took place here and there.  From what I pieced together on the net if a state prison can not be staffed acceptably by the tn department of corrections then the national gaurd would be the next step for staffing that prison.  Tn did not take that step and what I pieced together, that means I read what I could find and made an opinion that is mine and mine alone, the national gaurd would run things as needed for the emergency stuff going on.  So normal day to day stuff would be shut down.  It would come down to housing and feeding the inmates and maintaining security.



I will agree that if no one is around to catch someone breaking through walls, doors, and windows a prison is not really that hard to get out of.  And at the same time I figure armed people enforcing no man zones might keep those folks where they should be.



You can do some reading on prison riots and play on youtube and I also have seen some odds and ends on shows like lockdown.  



If I lived anywhere near a prison I would want to be in a community that is proud when the redneck label is thrown around.  I would want to be in a community where many many many folks and their relatives work at said prison.  I would want to work in a community where about everyone owns a firearm and if you only own one people feel sorry for you.



I doubt you will ever find in official writing some of the stuff where people are talking about going cell to cell and killing inmates.  Sounds like a major problem if it ever got out.



Katrina is a good thing to study for many issues, I still want to order the book about the people who worked at an elderly care center and walked off the job.  I have it bookmarked on amazon, something memorial, maybe 5 days at memorial is the name.



With all the above said, you yourself have to decide what sort of things you want to prep for.



A major local mother nature hissy fit is something that state plans for.  Got generators to power everything and fuel for a few days and in a few days roads can be cleared and fuel trucks rolling.  Prisons have a decent bit of food on hand but something like a 2400 inmate prison with 400 security staff will go through tons of food fast.  



Want to stretch it out to longer term but still localized, research some of the prisons in nashville that got flooded.  Inmates were moved ahead of time in many cases I think and I know security from all over tn volunteered to go to nashville and help out since some folks local to the area had to deal with losing a house and had no interest in working their job til their personal lives were in order.  So folks from all over trucked and bussed and vanned and carred in to help out.  Think we took care of it state wide but I know in some cases there might be offers from outside the state as well.



Want to take it to what the title says, you might want to look around yourself and see what you and your neighbors think about things because it might become something ya'll need to consider.



To some extent I know a large chunk of the prison population is going to stay right where they are if they have shelter, food, and clean water.  Dreams of running around and rampaging only go so far when we feel sorry for folks who only own one gun.  But dang if I don't have to admit that older neighbor who just owns one hunting rifle is not awfully perfect at getting his deer each year and shooting at varmints on the run and hitting them and everything else.  



Short version, take the prison buses and ship em all to washington dc and let their daddy deal with em.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 3:33:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dogduster2:
Hey does anyone know what prisons emergencies plans are in the event of a grid down/TEOTWAWKI situation?  I presume push comes to shove the guards would just throw the doors open and walk away and we would have hundreds of thousands of felons roaming the streets?

Thoughts?
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It doesn't appear that many here read the news.  "O" has just recently released thousands of felons back on the streets to rob, rape, pillage and vote Democrat for no other reason than because he felt like it.  
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 5:05:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By biere:
Jails for the most part hold people who have not seen a judge and have not been judged guilty......
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The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 5:15:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stumps:



The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.
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Originally Posted By Stumps:
Originally Posted By biere:
Jails for the most part hold people who have not seen a judge and have not been judged guilty......



The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.

The other thing to remember is that most of the guys in local jails are recidivists
They may be unsentenced on their current charges, but most have a long history of pas offenses.
Local jail populations will vary as far as sentenced people.
Here in NY they are for sentences of less than one year for the most part.
Some states sentence  their criminals with two years or less to local facilities.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 2:12:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By PhulesAu:
Guards just walk, screw them inmates.
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They'll figure a way out without guards around. Screw 'em.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 2:24:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stumps:



The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.
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Originally Posted By Stumps:
Originally Posted By biere:
Jails for the most part hold people who have not seen a judge and have not been judged guilty......



The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.


But most will be sentenced and released in a matter of months. These are folks that are on time out, not jailed to keep the public safe.
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 12:15:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By robpiat:


But most will be sentenced and released in a matter of months. These are folks that are on time out, not jailed to keep the public safe.
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Originally Posted By robpiat:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
Originally Posted By biere:
Jails for the most part hold people who have not seen a judge and have not been judged guilty......



The thing to remember is that everyone in prison got there through a jail. Regardless of being sentenced or not these are largely not good people. I think my facility has something like a 95% guilty rate for arrestees. Not that the other 5% are actually innocent, many of those are cases where witnesses refuse to come forward.


But most will be sentenced and released in a matter of months. These are folks that are on time out, not jailed to keep the public safe.






No. Trials take a long time. There's a lot of guys in jail waiting to be sentenced to prison time.
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 7:05:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AR45fan:

In the Stephen King book The Stand the prisoners were left in their cells to starve as I recall.
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Well that's something to certainly count on.
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 7:41:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By robpiat:

But most will be sentenced and released in a matter of months. These are folks that are on time out, not jailed to keep the public safe.
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I don't know about that.
Every day they're not out in the general public walking around and doing their various criminal things, society is safer.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:32:19 AM EDT
Former CO here. I would walk, and so would most of the staff I worked with. And there was no plan in place for what OP is asking, at least at our prison.

They chose poorly, and now their lives are in the hands of the state and staff of that institution. Zero fucks given.
Inmates/convicts are in prison to separate them from society. You do NOT want these people getting out.

If I (unfortunately) lived within sight of a prison and had to maintain my position, inmates seen attempting to get out would not.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 9:04:33 AM EDT
While there are a lot of good post here it all maintains a passive populace in most cases. Lets say true TEOTWAWKI. Guards will decide what happens. Or, should I say their actions. If they start bailing the Inmates will eventually take the opportunity to take control. Which may mean hunkering in place or stumbling down the road. I doubt most guards would shoot those they are charged to watch over for fear that ROL would return and judge them harshly. Inmates have near nothing to lose killing and rioting at the point of understanding the situation.

Also remember that county/city jails house the local minor offenders. That means, typically, their family and friends are within close proximity. Guards will likely have to answer for the actions of other guards if their paths cross.

Normalcy bias will tend to keep people doing what they were doing, even as the situation declines. I think most guards or NG would fear the consequences of a return to rule of law even it it were not likely to happen for months or years. I have seen trained military personnel not kill people that was justified because fear of being second guessed and prosecuted.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 9:43:22 AM EDT
Prisons here in the New Madrid zones, and the planning and the unspoken policy are what I worry about. The New Madrid cutting loose would change our nation for years. Deaths in 100K to how knows due starving, freezing, dehydration,etc. The table top exercises I have done with TEMA/ FEMA are scary. If I was a local guy working a prison, the big shake came , prisoners still somewhat contained but no running water, natural would be availible for months if not years.

Just go to nearest town square with Local PD/ Sheriff. Tell them prison is about to break, I have 4 men out 40 show up. Then let the locals decide if that can maintain a perimeter, go cell to cell with inmates history and decide if he could be set free. Murders, child rapists, etc that would pose the most harm, well choices will have to be made. No cell towers would be standing from any area within 40-60 miles of the fault lines in both directions.

Scary stuff to think about but a plan has to be in place for different levels of disaster. The New Madrid cutting loose here would be a event that we have not seen before. Have a plan A,B,C,D and more.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 10:39:03 AM EDT
When I was working corrections many years ago we were allowed by state law and agency policy to shoot escaping felon (not misdemeanor) inmates, or inmates we reasonably believed were felons in the act of escaping.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:05:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Chainsaw1:
While there are a lot of good post here it all maintains a passive populace in most cases. Lets say true TEOTWAWKI. Guards will decide what happens. Or, should I say their actions. If they start bailing the Inmates will eventually take the opportunity to take control. Which may mean hunkering in place or stumbling down the road. I doubt most guards would shoot those they are charged to watch over for fear that ROL would return and judge them harshly. Inmates have near nothing to lose killing and rioting at the point of understanding the situation.

Also remember that county/city jails house the local minor offenders. That means, typically, their family and friends are within close proximity. Guards will likely have to answer for the actions of other guards if their paths cross.

Normalcy bias will tend to keep people doing what they were doing, even as the situation declines. I think most guards or NG would fear the consequences of a return to rule of law even it it were not likely to happen for months or years. I have seen trained military personnel not kill people that was justified because fear of being second guessed and prosecuted.
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+1

And as far as plans go, I doubt any organization, correctional facility, state or local would ever put a plan in writing that even mentioned releasing or shooting inmates...  Talk about media cluster if any one ever got ahold of it during good times.  I am sure at higher levels of .gov such plans and orders exists, but nothing normal folk will ever hear about until the time to implement said plan has come.  Same can be true for many things we think we know, I am sure.

The local jails and county correctional facilities don't worry me, its the large prison populations, those sentenced to real time.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 1:51:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2016 1:52:41 PM EDT by sunburn]
I would like to think that people in charge of these facilities have some sort of unofficial plan that they do not have these plans or policies written down because they are not politically correct. I would imagine most facilities would let out the non violent offenders and keep the violent ones locked up left to starve.
Link Posted: 2/14/2016 7:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2016 7:03:00 PM EDT by fisterkev]
I'd think the best solution for a true TEOTWAKI situation would involve locked cells and lots of flammable material.

Seriously, if you were a guard working there and likely living fairly close by, would you want to free an army of several hundred or several thousand starving and demonstrably violent criminals into your area?

Better to nip that potential threat in the bud with a little fire, I think.
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 1:43:34 AM EDT
It's not just correctional facilities, jails and prisons.

What about psychiatric and substance abuse facilities?

I work Emergency Services in a county that has a large residential treatment facility in kind of a suburban setting with another in a neighboring county that's in a completely rural setting.

We were on a call there one day and while waiting for a patient's paperwork to be completed I struck up small talk and asked about their critical incident plan.

Completely dumbfounded, I had to break it down to her and directly ask what was their plan for a catastrophic event.


No idea, her response was, "I guess we'd just discharge and release everyone."

Almost three fourths of the people in this facility are there because of a court order, basically they were given the option of going to rehab and deferring a jail sentence.

Now they're in a facility that has no plan in place other than discharging them as a patient and turning them loose.

Link Posted: 2/16/2016 11:51:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
One place I worked at had plans for a local McD to cater to the jail.  

In a true SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, I bet the guards just walk away, leaving the incarcerated to starve to death.
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I worked corrections for 7 years from Max to Min.

I asked this very question to the Capt. of our prison.

He said It would be on a case by case basis. If it was a regional thing like an earthquake or fire, they would be bused elsewhere.

If it was a EOTW event, he said well, it's never happened before and there are no written policies for such an event.

Other prisons may have a different policy.

He did say that if the guards all did walk away, the prisoners would escape within 48 hours.

Prisons only contain humans as long as there are other humans making sure they stay put. The doors and walls are only delay mechanisms.
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