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Posted: 12/3/2007 8:09:01 PM EDT
This is kind of a spinoff of the "Good Cheap" rifle thread.

I noticed a lot of people recommending surplus M44s, SKSs, AKs, K98s, and so on. My question is, what kind of performance can a person generally expect from a surplus rifle? Just as an example (because it's close to where i live) lets look at the rifles from AIMsurplus that have had all that corrosive ammo pumped through them with no guaranties of bore condition(just assuming thats the norm for surplus). I know im not gonna be shooting sub moa at 300 yards but id still like to know what i can expect. Or is it just not possible to generalize because they're all over the place in terms of condition?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:13:24 PM EDT
I've got several Mosins and they all have nice bores. I don't remember ever seeing an SKS with a crappy bore but I've only really looked at a few dozen of them closely.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:15:41 PM EDT
if you get a K31, most of them will shoot well under 2MOA. a lot of them will shoot 1MOA.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:02:44 PM EDT


If you pick a Mosin carefully you can end up with a really nice rifle. My M38 was in unissued condition when I got it and it shoots great. Key here is to buy from alocal shop or gunshow where you can shine a bore light down the barrel and look it over carefully. Pick one with a shiny bore and matching numbers-- they're definitely out there.

Buy a Finnish Mosin or a K31 and you're looking at a pretty accurate rifle.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:33:48 PM EDT
And the part that I love about surplus rifles...you can get one for sixty or seventy dollars, mosins that is. For the price of one KISS AR you can have 10 surplus rifles. And the kicker, with a C&R license, you can have them shipped right to your door. Ah.....surplus rifles.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:27:17 AM EDT
ive got two turk 98's that'll print clover leafs at 50yrds with 40's dated turk suprlus....
an hungarian m44 that is minute of car door at 500yrds...\
and an m48 that will hit anything i aim at it. ive put nearly 800rnds through that rifle with zero issues.
hell i dont even clean mine with water anymore,,im to lazy i just clean em good, and clp them. zero issues...
none of my c+r's have been poor shooters .....
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:39:54 AM EDT
I sort of collect old military rifles one of the things that really affect thier practical accuracy most times isn't a poor bore but rather poor sights at least for me. Most have sights that are hard to pick up rapidly or in dim light. I have seen aftermarket sights for some of these rifles that turns the backsight into a peep sort of like some WWII jap rifles had. I have a pre war Mauser sporter with a vintage back sight like that and I love it....very fast and accurate for close range work.
There are some exceptions like Enfields, 1903A3s and Garands which have very good sights and normaly shoot very well if in good condition.

Probably just about any of these surplus rifles if in Good condition will shoot "Good Enough" unless you are planning on being a sniper or somthing. Last time I was at the range I out shot my friend and his AR using my old Krag carbine !........Todd
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:43:41 AM EDT
Milsurp rifles have been added to the gun locker. I buy 'em cheap & don't worry about cosmetics so long as they function properly.

Aim had Ishapore .308 Enfield rifles for about $175. It ain't real pretty but it shoots 2" groups and will work for trade stock if need be.

I picked up a Mosin 91/30 at Dunhams for $70 when they were on sale. 600rds of ammo from Aim was $80. I was pleased with how well it shoots too. sub 3" groups with that trashy ammo is good enough.

An old beater sporterized Mauser for $125 & 800rds of Turk ammo. I was amazed at how well it shoots too. 1.5" groups at 100 and accurate out to 500yds.


Since Aim is close to you I recommend you take ride & look them over. Get one of those Enfields in .308 & a couple cheap Mosins. Get a can or three of 7.62x54R. Their .308 look a bit high priced right now.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:06:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Milsurp rifles have been added to the gun locker. I buy 'em cheap & don't worry about cosmetics so long as they function properly.

Aim had Ishapore .308 Enfield rifles for about $175. It ain't real pretty but it shoots 2" groups and will work for trade stock if need be.

I picked up a Mosin 91/30 at Dunhams for $70 when they were on sale. 600rds of ammo from Aim was $80. I was pleased with how well it shoots too. sub 3" groups with that trashy ammo is good enough.

An old beater sporterized Mauser for $125 & 800rds of Turk ammo. I was amazed at how well it shoots too. 1.5" groups at 100 and accurate out to 500yds.


Since Aim is close to you I recommend you take ride & look them over. Get one of those Enfields in .308 & a couple cheap Mosins. Get a can or three of 7.62x54R. Their .308 look a bit high priced right now.


Yeah i was wanting to do that but i asked around and it seems they don't really have a store. It's just a desk where you can pick up orders if they aren't too busy with mail orders. Now i don't have a problem going down their and asking them to bring every rifle they have up to the front one by one so i can check them out...but they might. Thats why i was just curious about what to expect from some guy just picking a rifle out of a bin and handing it to me.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:12:55 AM EDT
It will shoot good enough to keep you alive, assuming you practice with it.


GR
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 8:21:04 AM EDT
My surplus m39 (finnish mosin) will do 2moa with shitty heavy ball surplus ammo. It's as accurate as my garand.

My SKSs are at about 4-6moa, minute of paper-plate at 100 yards is just fine for a $100 semi auto.

-JTP
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 8:27:40 AM EDT
They are great work horses. Just like Ford Vs Chevy.. someone will like one better than the other. Personally, I like Garands and then No4 Enfields. I like peep sights as sighting is just so much easier for me personally.

Surplus rifles are work horses that have proven their ability to exactly what they were designed to do.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:04:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:08:16 AM EDT
Most of mine will out shoot me. The SKS is the least accurate of the bunch. I can get about a 3 inch group at 100 yards with open sights. My M44 is scoped and shoots close to 1 moa. Both my K98 and M48 shoot well but since they are open sights it's had to say just how accurate they could be. I plan to scope one of these later next year and find out.


Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:10:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:14:39 AM EDT


They work pretty well if you appreciate them for what they are.
Cheap, durable rifles that will be reasonably accurate.
The key to getting a good C/R is hand picking.
My 91/30 has a very rough looking cosmetic appearance, but inside she was pristine.
The results speak for themselves, and I'll be adding a PU scope to her soon.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:15:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By wvar15:
Most of mine will out shoot me. The SKS is the least accurate of the bunch. I can get about a 3 inch group at 100 yards with open sights. My M44 is scoped and shoots close to 1 moa. Both my K98 and M48 shoot well but since they are open sights it's had to say just how accurate they could be. I plan to scope one of these later next year and find out.




I have a Bench Buddy. Neat toy that straps your rifle down but adjusts so you can put it on target. I bought it for sighting in scopes but also use it on iron sights to check groupings for a specific ammunition.

Tj


Good idea. I'm going to order one.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:55:17 AM EDT
This is slightly O/T, but I have a K98 that was zeroed by a drunk in a big hurry, who then deeply staked the front sight (it shoots about 3 inches to the left at 100 yards). Does anyone know any good methods of removing the stake without causing too much of an ugly blemish? I guess I could drill it, then use cold blue, but I hesitate to do that if I don't have to. This rifle shoots a nice tight ~1moa group... I'd just like to put it in the center of the paper. Ideas?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:18:02 AM EDT
I have been looking at a surplus rifle for a truck gun. They are all a little too long. what kind of stock options are there for any of them ( do not include the SKS) a folding stock would be ideal. I wonder what kind of accracy you would loose with a folding stock on say a mauser or enfield. anyone try this?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:20:22 AM EDT
I can hit clay targets at 100 yards with my M44 off a rest quite easily with crappy surplus ammo. I am NOT a good shooter by any means. (Although I am working on getting better).
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:29:02 AM EDT
I just picked up a m48 from aim a couple of weeks ago. When I finally got all of the cosmo off of it and took it out to shoot a little I was hitting my steel targets at 100 as long as I did my part. I was shooting S&B brass stuff, I was excited that I didn't have to move the sights at all

Polytech
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:30:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 10:30:59 AM EDT by timb3]

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I have been looking at a surplus rifle for a truck gun. They are all a little too long. what kind of stock options are there for any of them ( do not include the SKS) a folding stock would be ideal. I wonder what kind of accracy you would loose with a folding stock on say a mauser or enfield. anyone try this?


A mosin m38 or m44 might be a good choice if you just want a short rifle/carbine. Those are both quite short. Or did you look at those already? If you want something shorter than those, I'm not sure what you'd need to get...

edited to add: maybe one of those shortened enfields?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:52:03 AM EDT
I think aim has an info line as well as an order line so give them a call if you have questions.

I found them excellant to deal with and I think you could get them to maybe pick you one of the better rifles for a small fee. Figure out what you want and call to ask some questions.

As far as these surplus rifles do, with surplus ammo I consider them good enough out to 300 yards even when beat up.

I have a finish mosin because I like the history behind it and in someone else's hands it is very accurate.

In my hands I am doing 3 inch groups using surplus ammo but that will shrink as I work on my technique since I am the problem and the rifle is far more capable than I am. My basic problem is the sites but I don't want to change them, I want to simply learn to use them consistantly.

I agree with tj on each rifle liking a specific ammo, mine loves some of the new production stuff and I would not feel bad taking this rifle hunting if I wished to do so.

When I bought it I somewhat wondered about taking it hunting since I know how accurate my 308 remington can be.

These are nice performers and they have proven themselves.

And that is generic to about all surplus rifles I have seen, I just like the mosin for some reason.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 12:42:59 PM EDT
I've decided to just go for it and get a Mosin-Nagant to try out as a trunk gun...at those prices how can i afford not toh
I'm stuck between a K98 for the historic value of a piece of WWII weaponry or a K31 just for the fact that it's something different. Someone sell me on one of these rifles!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:02:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:15:54 PM EDT
I have a m48 yugo mauser that I scoped with a mount from Iron elite, Its now my hunting rifle, itll print 2-3 moa at 100 yds time and time again, i also buy 8mm ammo from cabelas its sold by wolf but I beleive its Privi Partisan, I in the process of restoring a enfield No4 Mk2 that i killed my first deer with 35 years ago that my gramps left me. jesus he never cleaned it or took care of it but im hoping for good things with it. I highly recommend the Iron Elits setup for mausers no permanent alterations and rock solid.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:20:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I have been looking at a surplus rifle for a truck gun. They are all a little too long. what kind of stock options are there for any of them ( do not include the SKS) a folding stock would be ideal. I wonder what kind of accracy you would loose with a folding stock on say a mauser or enfield. anyone try this?


Have you looked at the M38 and M44 Mosin Nagants? They're nice and short. In fact, they're short enough that they create a pretty impressive fireball when fired in the late evening or night time.

I think both come to around 40" overall length with 20" barrels.
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