Yeah, I know that Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, and the rest of the Russian .223 doesn't have the accuracy or ballistics of XM193 or the like.  However, finding brass .223 for any price has been very difficult around here lately.  If it came down to it, how well (or bad) would the cheap foreign ammo perform in a pinch?

Silver and brown bear i have only one problem with...it wont make the bolt carrier go back all the way in one of my AR's.

Wolf Black box on the other hand gets stuck in my chamber and i need to have a cleaning rod and hammer handy when i shoot it

WOLF i would not trust my life with

I think it would do just fine.  I have no trouble shooting any of it out of my AR's.  Maybe it is not the very best and most accurate ammo but it does not seem to have any trouble getting on paper at 100 yards.  I would rather have Wolf than nothing at all.

I think it could also make good barter material if nothing else.

I have used the sliver bear and the only problem I've had with it is that some round will not fire when the primer is struck but I just load it back up and it would fire.

My USP had 2-3 jams with Silver Bear .45, never had issues with other brands.

If it goes bang then don't worry about it, you may want to test fire some to see if your weapon will eat it ok.
Like said before I would rather have it than nothing.

I have had great luck with silver bear and use it for tactical type shooting and bowling pins out to 100 yards and it is plenty accurate for that with a red dot or iron sights.   I save the brass ammo for when I go to classes that won't allow steel cased ammo.   I have not had any problems with corrosion on what I have stocked.   I have not tried wolf in 5.56/.223.

I've got my stockpile of SHTF ammo and I've got my stockpile of practice ammo, which is mostly Wolf.  If I ran out of XM193 I'm not going to use my AR as a club just because I don't want to use the Wolf in a defense situation.  Make sure you test it in your guns and it is better than nothing.

I had a problem with silver bear, and this is fairly common after i did a little research.

The extractor rips the rim off the steel case, leaving the entire case jammed in the chamber. There is literally no way to extract the case unless you drop a cleaning rod down the barrel to pop the case out.

This happened to me 17 times out of the 250rnds i bought of silver bear. It happened to me while the rifle was A. Very clean B. Clean and lubed and C. dirty and gritty.

The rifle cycles everything else, even wolf, without issues.

For me.. that bumps silverbear out of ANY shtf situation.. Obviously every rifle is different, but I would run about 500rnds of ammo through your rifle that you would be stocking up on.

My gut reaction for SHTF would be, you would be better off buying 200rnds of whatever expensive brass ammo you can find than stocking 1000 rnds of something that could cause your rifle to choke up when you need it.

Definitely test whatever ammo you get... maybe 400 rounds without cleaning.  Make a day out of it and TRAIN not just dirt shooting...

but a word of advice to anyone that has a "SHTF AR"


See that cleaning rod taped under the forearm?  You should plan on doing that no matter what ammo you have stockpiled.
Add a pressure dressing up there as well, or on the stock if it's not collapsable.

Cleaning rod,  great tip.  Thanks.

Buds gun shop has PMC (brass) for $7 a box that or $340 for a case of 1000rds. Depending on where you live in Ohio that may not be too bad of a drive for you. Its affordable and shoots good in my MP15.

I would suggest a good brass cased ammo for SHTF. , but if that is all you got , than its better than nothing.

i don't shoot wolf black box 55gr, but have had no problems out of many many rounds of 62gr wolf black box(except in my 1:8" saber 20" in .223 it would not chamber properly, though the wolf 75gr  is seated a bit deeper with a shorter overall lenght and works just fine). i really have no idea if the 55gr and 62gr have any differences as far as powder and/or charge, but i have heard a fair number of complaints out of newer AR owners whom would go in and buy a gun and a couple boxes of the cheap wolf ammo. 55gr seems to always be more readily available. i usually just chalk the majority of the supposed malfunctions up to new AR owners(not saying wolf is quality), but i'm guessing a lot of these guys don't know the difference between a well oiled AR and well oiled (insert random fudd gun, AK or SKS here) and don't neccessarilly blame the gun or the ammo right off the bat deending on the problem...

anyway, i've had good results with black box wolf 62gr. and have no trouble(if i'm shooting good that day) with 5 shot 1" groups at 100yd out of my bushy modular, with a ta31f on top of a modified arms #19 mount(as well as several other ARs though they don't tend to be as accurate, the 20"saber build hasn't been properly tested yet only for live fire function after the problem with the 62 gr wolf). it's the internet so you can call B.S. if you want and i don't have pics of the groups, not that they could be proved legit on the internet anyway. i know a lot of internet guys world over have shit all over wolf ammo. and it's definatelly not on par with a lot of other better and more expensive name brands, as far as accuracy, and i'm sure lethality and probably reliability. but given the good luck i've had with it so far and it's price in relation to other brands, it's good to go for me...

in short from my personal expierence it's accurate and reliable enough for anything i've ever needed it for and it does put holes in things. i'll put back a couple thousand rounds to include in my s.h.t.f. ammo stash...

K.

I seldom if ever shoot wolf or any steel cased ammo, I do have some though. I am of the opinion that in a shtf situation the steel cased stuff for barter is the way to go instead of trading my brass ammo for items I may need.  I guess you could say I view ammo as a precious metal. Of course if it comes down to it Ill use it or pass it on to people who may join my party.  So Having some in reserve is not a bad idea IMHO

wolf is just fine.

1,000's of rounds through my ar for plinking, and no problems caused by the ammo.  there have been numerous write ups on this site about wolf ammo.  if you are worried that the steel case will hurt your rifle, don't.  your rifle is hopefully made of stronger steel.  if not, it is not safe to shoot.  

if you don't trust your wolf, i'll come pick it up.

-frank

I have a couple of cases of Wolf (military classic) and haven't had any issues at all.  I looked at it as a good initial stock up, and as I replace it with better ammo, I use the Wolf for plinking.

I prefer Black Hills, Privi M193 and Radway Green M855. But I do have about 600 Brown Bear put up. It goes bang in the Mini. WJ

You could store some for "SHTF training"
Then find better stuff for zombies (at the very least enough ammo to load all your mags twice)

this.

ammo is ammo for training and you need lots of ammo for training.

you most likely will never need you rifle for self defense, so maybe 200 rounds of premium ammo will be all you need.

if you live through a 200 round fire fight, or several 20 round fire fights (alone) then you are tougher than titanium nails, and a lucky somebitch.

odds are better in a squad with fire support though.

Get an AK; it will eat all the cheap Russian steel case (Bears, Wolves, Tigers, etc.) for breakfast.

As for the .223, I've had the best luck with Silver Bear.  Just clean your chamber before going to the range and DO NOT mix steel and brass cased .223.  That is how you cause problems.  Otherwise, I have around 99 out of 100 shots with no problems with Silver Bear.  I have not tried it under less than ideal range conditions though.

I would not recommend it for SHTF.  SHTF practice yes, but not SHTF combat.  Suck it up and buy a few hundred rounds of quality brass cased and then get Russian steel cased ammo to practice with.

One thing to remember is that the M193 or now M855 that the US military uses is designed to fragment in the target.  This requires a certain bullet velocity when the bullet strikes it's target.  The bullets in the Russian ammo are usually traveling at a lower velocity (as they are loaded as 223 Remington, rather than 5.56 nato; out of a full length barrel about 200 feet per second slower - less of a difference from shorter barrels as both loads are slower), and more importantly, are not designed to the fragmentation specifications of the US ammo.  While no one wants to have any holes poked in them, it is obvious that if a bullet fragments as designed in a target it has a better chance of stopping any threat quicker than one that pokes a hole through it.

The shorter barreled firearms that are more convenient to carry, do have the downside of having a lower bullet velocity than a full length barrel.  An example of each would be a 16 inch or less (all NFA rules apply) barreled AR carbine compared to an AR rifle with a 20 inch barrel.  A hand loader has some ability to increase the velocity by using a quicker burning powder, but care must be taken to keep the pressure within the design specifications of the cartridge and firearm.  There is usually (but not always) an accuracy loss when doing this.

In my opinion, if you are planning on using an AR rifle for self defence, you should stick with a version of the military ammo, if funds allow, preferably the 75 grain match loads, or a hunting load rather than the Russian ammo.  If funds don't allow for these choices, the Russian ammo is certainly better than nothing, just remember what it was designed for and it's limitations.

Edited to add, it you plan to shoot lots of rounds in training, or be training other people how to shoot, a dedicated 22 long rifle upper for $600 or so does not take long to pay off in ammo savings.

I've actually heard of it.  Where is it?

It beats nothing.

I have fired thousands of rounds of Wolf 55 grain ball ammo through my Mini-14 and my AR180B, and AR rifles.  Zero problems.

I've managed a 5" group at 200mts with Barnaul 55grn from my M4gery 14.5 with TA31, I dont think its that bad at all.

All of the ammo you listed will run fine in my AR so I wouldnt feel bad if thats all I had. In addition, I would not want to be shot with any of that, and I am sure a bad guy will not stay on his feet after being shot with any of the listed ammo, and ask you, "is that wolf, you know thats crappy ammo right?" before dropping dead.

+ Bazillion

Bought a Oly plinker in the mid 90s in college. Shot her a few times with civi .223 brass ammo and then had it in the closet for about a decade while I was in the army. Ordered a case of wolf 55gr poly in 2005 without reading any reviews and shot about 800 problem free rounds.

Bought an Oly M4 copy day after election. Just fired it for the first time this weekend. Did not lube/clean it at all prior to firing. Loaded mag of wolf fire jam fire jam. Oh no thought I, the stories were true and my new carbine can't take wolf! Shot a mag of brass case soft points, spit in the chamber and proceed to try wolf again. 2 trouble free mags!

Moral of the story: Wolf works just fine IMO.

Never had a problem with Wolf in my AR. I have a few boxes of it and if push comes to shove then it's better than throwing rocks.

Exactly what this guy said.

I've run some Wolf through my Colt and my Bushy....and I've decided to keep the remaining 800+ rounds for barter.

Wolf would be fine if SHTF if that's all you have.

For me, due to it's fragmentation properties (or lack thereof), it's pretty low on my go-to ammo tier list.

Late entrance to this thread, but thought I'd add one thing;  If you get the polymer-coated cases of Wolf ammo (the ones that don't have the greenish lacquer) the cases will develop rust pretty quickly in a humid environment.  They'll still fire, but unless you clean off the surface rust, it gets deposited in your rifle as you use it and eventually start contributing to failures and/or malfunctions.

I have fired many hundreds if not thousands of rounds of Barnaul, Wolf, Prizi, no name brazilian surplus,tracers, etc etc etc.  I have fired them dirty, fired em clean.  Maybe it's just the luck of the draw.  Maybe my weapons are magical, but I have never had any problems with ammo in my rifles.  I am a fair shot, but I haven't noticed ant major difference in accuracy.  My guns are all more accurate than I am anyway.

I have yet to see a jam in my AK or my buddies Bushmaster. Between the 2 of us we have fired in the neighborhood of 5,000 rounds of wolf and surplus chinese.
I dont sweat the russian stuff.

I shoot the Monarch brand ammo with out any problems and save my SHTF.

I've stockpiled away a good bit of wolf... maybe 10k rounds,.... I'd rather have 5k rounds of Wolf 75gr HP than 1500 rounds of Federal M193....

but then again any AR worth it's salt can run wolf... I've never, in the hundreds of Ar's i've owned, built, sold, bought or manufactured, seen a rifle that wouldn't cycle or work just fine with wolf.

I have a question for all of you that are using  Wolf,Brown Bear,Silver Bear, ETC .

What kind of AR are you using on this steel cased ammo ?

That question is both for those that are having problems and those that have had problems .

I'm not trying to push some brand name snobbery here ,I'd just really like to know
if some brands seem to work better with it then others.

I'm really not liking the thought of using steel cased ammo in my M4 ,but
current ammo availability and pricing are pushing me to it .

I want to reload but I simply lack the space right now .

This man speaks the truth! The zombies wont know the difference and you are going to need every friggin round you can find.

Any person who's concerend with the SHTF should be set up to reload ammo, therefore you should only be buying brass cased boxer primed ammo.

My friends and I combined must have gone through 10,000 + rds of Wolf through our ARs(DPMS and RRA), and not a single problem.

IMHO I think that in many cases it is the AR, not the Wolf that is the problem.

dude,  the steel case will not hurt your m4.  -frank

my armalite eats both wolf 62 grain and silver bear 55 grain just fine only time it ever FTF was with a cheap singapore mag I bought from SG. I changed the followers and springs with magpulls and even those are fine now.

I have excellent luck with privi,It is accurate but not much less then the good stuff.I find it local in 200rnd battle packs so it is easier to afford then the 1000 round packs.I want to try the silver bear 62grn ammo.

name a company that makes AR's or parts for AR's and I've used it.

That excludes race guns with match grade parts like JP rifles... those will not run wolf very well...