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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 8/30/2012 6:17:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2012 10:04:06 AM EST by Samal]
every year, I ask a few of my friends, if they want to join me for a hog hunt and they say yes, we pay deposit and then they cancel.
I know, I should get new friends... :)

anyway, here are the details - I have a 3 person 2 day hog hunt booked over the internet and deposit is given. place is
"Ocmulgee river swamp near Macon" time - Friday/Saturday nights either on Sep 21/22, or Sep 28/29


Cost is $125 per person per night - includes 1 hog per night per person, no size limit - this is without the guide.

Since the most experienced hog hunter in our company cancelled, we would have to get a guide for this trip, it gets a bit too rich for my friend's limit and they are going to bail on me as well. with guide, it's goes up to $200 per person per night.


I was thinking if there is someone local from GA or North FL with local hog hunting experience, who wants to join us, we will cover half of your cost - so you will get to hunt for 2 days for $125 and get 2 pigs included in that price. we would rely on your expertise and experience so if you are new to hog hunting as well, we will end up 3 stooges in the woods

I hunted hogs in TX last year, hunt upland with friends regularly, so I have hunting experience and attitude, also I am 42 years old with .mil background and not a new guy around guns. the other guy has less experience with guns and hunting, but is serious, safe and reliable as well.

let me know if someone is interested.

Also, if you have NV devices, it would be fantastic I am willing to pay for use/rent it or just have it for spotting. I I have red hog-lights attached to my rifles, have a 6.8SPC AR and a 44 mag level action

thanks in advance
Link Posted: 9/4/2012 12:29:27 PM EST
Too long a drive from Louisiana, and only one pig a night? That's just cruel.
Link Posted: 9/4/2012 5:06:18 PM EST
sorry, no more vacancy.

you can take more than 1 per night - but there is additional fee...
I am traveling for 12 hours, so I can not risk it hunting on public land and have noone I know with private property, so I go where you pay to hunt :(


Link Posted: 9/17/2012 3:08:43 PM EST
Hope you get your limit! Too far from me Good Luck!.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 12:11:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:45:54 PM EST by Samal]
well, I am back and here is my story:

first - the good:

lots of hog activity in Twigg Co, namely right by Scoga rd and the railroad crossing, West of Hwy 16
we got a boar - I would estimate it at about 150 lbs, but just a guess here, and we got a sow, maybe 80 lbs

now - the rest of the story: I have been cheated out of lots of money by a guy who puts bad name to the whole hog hunting business industry that grows fast in Southern states.

I purchased a non-guided hunt for 3 people for 2 nights, $125 per person per night - it was agreed as non-guided. Later, one experienced friend cancelled and people that were coming with me never hunted in their lives, and I was by no means an expert myself. So, I called the guide, and changed it to a guided hunt - walk and stalk and sitting in the stands as well. The cost for that was bumped up to $200 a person a night. We discussed a proposed tip to the guides and agreed that it would be around $150 - not a fee, but a tip!

First thing after we arrived to the property where the lodge was located, the guy introduced himself and said that he wants to get the money upfront. Red light went on, but he had us hostages - we drove 850 miles, and were committed to hunt. I paid him the remainder of the hunting fee and told him, I will give the tip to the guides when we leave in 2 days. The owner told me that he is the guide and that he wants all the money including tip upfront and will not even show us where the hunting property is without it. Well, he got the money and we headed out to the property - 20 minutes’ drive. there, he gives me the combination to the gate lock, shows us 3 decrepit deer stands across empty feeders, throws couple dozen hamburger buns as bait and tells me that we are not going to do walk and stalk as "it’s too dangerous”. That was the last time I saw him….
It actually gets better. First night was not good. We had sighted only 3 hogs that didn't even stop at the feeder areas - we saw them in the brush in the morning when we did walk and stalk – both my friends missed and I had a misfire on my 44 mag lever action - the stupid cross bolt safety was engaged! – first night hunting after driving previous night, in the dark, adrenalin and etc… we sat on the stands from 8 till 1 am, took a break, came back around 4 and saw nothing – the buns were not even touched, no traffic by the stands, but lots of tracks in the area that we scouted in the morning. At that time we already realized that we were taken advantage of and decided to get the best out of it.
We went to the Bass Pro, got some Deer Corn and some "PigOut” fruit based pig bait, mixed it up from reading on forums, pre-baited the stands in the early afternoon so the smell will get around – not a minute of sleep because of all that work!

Second night was very productive, lots of pigs came out, my friend got a pig, I shot a pig, my other friend managed to miss at the very close distance… by 3:00AM I went to gut and skin the first pig. Now, I never done it before and our agreement was that he will help me out and show me how it’s done first time. Well, calling him, first couple calls ring long and then go to voicemail, then it goes directly to the voicemail – he turned off his phone! I had to locate a rack, but could not start water and lights as could not find the controls. I had to do it first time in my life in my truck’s headlights while watching freaking youtube video! I cut myself in addition, had to go to ER to get 7 stitches on a finger, a tetanus shot and antibiotics. Finally he decided to text me the info for the local processor he called, who quartered the hog and also processed the sow we got later that morning.

I am thinking of reporting this guy to BBB, GA department of consumer affairs, and definitely will ask for a refund between guided and not guided hunts and if he will not refund the money, dispute the deposit that I gave him using my CC. I am usually not the high maintenance attention whore, but this person's total disrespect, inattention and cheating really pissed me off!


That’s the end of the story, now to the pics:












Link Posted: 10/3/2012 1:24:05 PM EST
I am glad that you at least got a few hogs and didn't walk away empty handed. It seems that since there has been a spike in the market for hog hunts the number of illegitimate places has multiplied, and there are hardly ever anyway to look for reviews to investigate beforehand. It might help out the community to post the name of the business/proprietor.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 2:56:41 PM EST
Lame. (except for the dead pigs, woo!)
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 6:27:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Litigious:
It might help out the community to post the name of the business/proprietor.

I am still trying to reason with him, but if he stays the same, I will publish his name on every hunting and shooting forum I can find to warn people

Link Posted: 10/5/2012 10:14:47 AM EST
Tag
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 10:53:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2012 10:54:36 AM EST by Samal]
here is the email I sent him and gave him 3 days:
Let see if he will refund the money and produce the receipt that I asked for since the day of the hunt


Mr XXXXXXX,

Seeing that you can get email on your phone as your signature states, I guess you are trying to avoid me on purpose.

Your inability to produce a receipt is the last straw. I am convinced that you are knowingly defrauding and will continue to defraud your customers and use cash payments upfront with no receipt to make sure they don’t have proof of payment and services rendered.

Let me restate the facts, the services that I agreed to pay for and the amounts.
First we agreed on non-guided walk and stalk hunt for 3 people for 2 nights for $125 a night to the total of $750. Later I contacted you to reschedule and change the service to a guided walk and stalk hunt for 3 people for 2 nights for $200 a night to the total of $1200. In addition we booked the 2 night stay in your lodge for additional $30 per person per night and a tip of $150 (optional fee depending on services rendered) to a guide.

Total for the hunt was $1530, $375 paid as deposit by credit card and the rest due cash at the hunt. This was for guided hunt

As both you and I know, as we arrived, immediately, you charged me full amount upfront and demanded the tip paid upfront as well. Since we arrived from 850 miles away and had no other contacts or premises for a hunt, we reluctantly agree to your demands, hoping that we would enjoy the hunt and it would be money well spent.

You led us to the hunting area, gave us the combination to the gate-lock and I had not seen you since then at all, you did not show up to check on us as promised, did not answer your phone, and were out of contact except occasional phone call from you or a text message. You refused to assist me with field dressing the game, against what was agreed. I, not having prior experience and trying to do it myself caused my personal injury and visit to ER. Even after that incident, you never showed up to provide any assistance and/or guiding and/or any maintenance tasks that are customary included in the "hunting guide” service.

Based on these facts, I demand an immediate refund of $450 – the difference between non-guided and guided hunt service costs. If I don’t receive funds or proof that funds had been sent in 3 business days from today, I will have to initiate legal action and warn the general public about your fraudulent practices.

Here is what I intend to do:
I will contact GA Governor office of Consumer Affairs with an official complaint against XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX Hunt club.
I will contact an attorney and file a case with small claims court
I will dispute $375 deposit paid by credit card
I will publish your information on every online hunting and shooting community as well as on specialized review boards and social media sites to warn as many potential customers as possible about your actions

I am expecting a prompt reply from you,

Shaul Anbinder



Link Posted: 10/5/2012 2:10:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 8:40:57 AM EST by Samal]
well, got his reply
here are his creds:

Jay (Julian) Cranford
Macon, GA

his place is called Hickory Hills Hunt Club, websites:
http://trophysunlimited.com/
http://www.deltaduckhunters.com/site/about-us/


and unfortunately late find on Kentucky outfitter guide reviews -

http://www.huntinfo.com/kentucky-outfitter-guide-reviews:
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­––––––––––-

Submit Date: Feb 5, 2006

Outfitter Review: Trophys Unlimited - Kentucky

Outfitter / Owner: Jay Cranford

Hunter: L. Branch

Animals Hunted: Whitetail deer

Jay is a slick talker and makes many false promises. We booked for the opening of the season and were told we could expect to see many mature bucks ... Join now to read reviews
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––
Submit Date: Dec 20, 2005

Outfitter Review: Trophys Unlimited - KY

Outfitter / Owner: Jay Cranford

Hunter: T. CHESTER

Animals Hunted: whitetail

NO DEER! MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NO GUIDE! OWNER LIES TO YOU! DEFINITELY A BIG SCAM! HUGE BUCK ON WEBSITE IS ACTUALLY A DOE CAPE WITH A BUCK SHED! NO ONE ... Join now to read reviews









Link Posted: 10/5/2012 6:33:27 PM EST
Ugh,

Humans are so disappointing sometime.
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 7:07:25 PM EST
I have added a link in the GA hometown forum so people are aware of this guy.

Link Posted: 10/6/2012 1:41:13 AM EST
Make sure you post your story in the appropriate place here.

Probably the largest online hunting forum associated with GA.

Link Posted: 10/6/2012 5:36:02 AM EST
Yes, definitely post it on the GON and Outdoors Trader forum.

Just to be curious, was Tommy Haskins involved in this hunt in any way?
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 7:39:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Jason280:
Yes, definitely post it on the GON and Outdoors Trader forum.

Just to be curious, was Tommy Haskins involved in this hunt in any way?


I was thinking the same thing!

Link Posted: 10/6/2012 7:40:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2012 7:40:31 AM EST by treedawg]
...
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 10:12:00 AM EST
will register and post

who is Tommy Haskins?
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 11:41:30 AM EST
will register and post

who is Tommy Haskins?


Tommy was a dealer here on the site who is now in the Hall of Shame, and apparently was involved with Jay Cranford at some time with hog hunts.

Make sure you post your experience on GON and Outdoors Traders!!
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 4:47:24 PM EST

Make sure you post your experience on GON and Outdoors Traders!!


This.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 4:59:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattellis2:
Make sure you post your story in the appropriate place here.

Probably the largest online hunting forum associated with GA.


apparently GON forum is not interested in this type of info:

here is from their rules:

Libel
Because of the changes regarding libel laws and liability, any threads or posts made about businesses or individuals that are derogatory, accusational or suggest illegal dealings will be deleted. We cannot accept the liability of being sued for libel because you feel you were poorly dealt with in a business deal or other transaction with anybody else, regardless of if they are a member here or not. If you have such a problem, deal with it personally, but do not post about it here. Repeated violations of this rule will result in immediate termination of your membership without recourse.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 5:02:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Samal:

Originally Posted By mattellis2:
Make sure you post your story in the appropriate place here.

Probably the largest online hunting forum associated with GA.


apparently GON forum is not interested in this type of info:

here is from their rules:

Libel
Because of the changes regarding libel laws and liability, any threads or posts made about businesses or individuals that are derogatory, accusational or suggest illegal dealings will be deleted. We cannot accept the liability of being sued for libel because you feel you were poorly dealt with in a business deal or other transaction with anybody else, regardless of if they are a member here or not. If you have such a problem, deal with it personally, but do not post about it here. Repeated violations of this rule will result in immediate termination of your membership without recourse.


Sad.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 5:08:28 PM EST
Because of the changes regarding libel laws and liability, any threads or posts made about businesses or individuals that are derogatory, accusational or suggest illegal dealings will be deleted. We cannot accept the liability of being sued for libel because you feel you were poorly dealt with in a business deal or other transaction with anybody else, regardless of if they are a member here or not. If you have such a problem, deal with it personally, but do not post about it here. Repeated violations of this rule will result in immediate termination of your membership without recourse.


Hate to admit it, but I am not surprised.
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 3:09:29 AM EST
On his website there is a list of sponsors....they might be interested in his business practices
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 3:24:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Samal:
well, got his reply - he is still a scumbag...

here are his creds:

Jay (Julian) Cranford
Macon, GA

his place is called Hickory Hills Hunt Club, websites:
http://trophysunlimited.com/
http://www.deltaduckhunters.com/site/about-us/


and unfortunately late find on Kentucky outfitter guide reviews -

http://www.huntinfo.com/kentucky-outfitter-guide-reviews:
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––-

Submit Date: Feb 5, 2006

Outfitter Review: Trophys Unlimited - Kentucky

Outfitter / Owner: Jay Cranford

Hunter: L. Branch

Animals Hunted: Whitetail deer

Jay is a slick talker and makes many false promises. We booked for the opening of the season and were told we could expect to see many mature bucks ... Join now to read reviews
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––
Submit Date: Dec 20, 2005

Outfitter Review: Trophys Unlimited - KY

Outfitter / Owner: Jay Cranford

Hunter: T. CHESTER

Animals Hunted: whitetail

NO DEER! MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NO GUIDE! OWNER LIES TO YOU! DEFINITELY A BIG SCAM! HUGE BUCK ON WEBSITE IS ACTUALLY A DOE CAPE WITH A BUCK SHED! NO ONE ... Join now to read reviews











So what was his reply?

Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 3:27:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2012 3:28:32 AM EST by Samal]

Originally Posted By Merlin:

So what was his reply?

Good luck!


here is his email. I highlighted parts that just don't make sense to me:

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­––––
I was ur guide... I located the pigs for you. You killed 2 pigs and had a chance to kill 4. It was a guided not. Not a fully guided hunt. The guide does not stay with you. The $150 guide fee was for locating and feeding the stands before and during your hunt. I never promised to clean ur pigs. I have text starring that we take to processor and told you that. I went to meet you and you had already left the lodge.

I also agreed to let you hunt at night at no additional charge. You had a great hunt and killed 2 pigs.

I was in constant contact with you during your hunt even at 4 am in the morning!!

That's why we have people pay upfront, sign the credit card receipts and release forms so we do not get cheated on our money

I will be glad to send you a receipt for your balance when I get back to ga...

]I am contacting my brother mike who is an atty. And will advise him of your actions. We will be forced to initiate a suit against you if you defraud me or my company in any way.

Jay Cranford


Link Posted: 10/9/2012 3:38:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2012 3:38:56 AM EST by Merlin]
Well that sucks. I'd go after him on every hunting site I could. Here is the Alabama deer hunting site, I'd post your experience there if you haven't already.

Click on the "Deer Talk Forums" link in the main menu box: AL Deer

Good luck!

Link Posted: 10/9/2012 5:02:03 AM EST
I find it comical that he is threatening you with legal action, especially considering the circumstances. I do know of his brother, and he is in fact an attorney, but there is nothing illegal with you posting your negative experience with the guide service. He may try to bully you with his legal connection, but I would not let it concern me in the least. You feel like you did not get your money's worth on the trip, so you are entirely free to post that information.
Link Posted: 10/10/2012 5:41:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:47:33 PM EST by Samal]
here is a development...

Jay contacted me shortly after my email again and tried to explain his idea of guided hunt and tried to improve the situation. When I explained to him that I didn't feel I got the service I paid for, we settled the matter with him giving me a $350 discount off a hog hunt next year. I just hope that I made the right decision, and will not regret coming to his hunt again. I am not a vengeful guy and I feel that this situation is resolved.

I will keep you posted in a year.


Link Posted: 10/11/2012 4:02:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Samal:
here is a development...

Jay contacted me shortly after my email again and tried to explain his idea of guided hunt and tried to improve the situation. When I explained to him that I didn't feel I got the service I paid for, we settled the matter with him giving me a $350 discount off a hog hunt next year. I just hope that I made the right decision, and will not regret coming to his hunt again. I am not a vengeful guy and I feel that this situation is resolved.

I will keep you posted in a year.




It sounds like he is making an effort to put things right. Good for him. His advertising might be a bit deceiving about what you will get but at least he didn't tell you to FAOD. (which is honestly what I thought was going to happen)
Link Posted: 10/11/2012 4:44:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
His advertising might be a bit deceiving about what you will get but at least he didn't tell you to FAOD. (which is honestly what I thought was going to happen)


frankly, me too and I was not looking forward of what I was about to start - all these disputes, claims and legal crap just distract you from life and make attornews richer.
Link Posted: 10/11/2012 9:56:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Samal:
here is a development...

Jay contacted me shortly after my email again and tried to explain his idea of guided hunt and tried to improve the situation. When I explained to him that I didn't feel I got the service I paid for, we settled the matter with him giving me a $350 discount off a hog hunt next year. I just hope that I made the right decision, and will not regret coming to his hunt again. I am not a vengeful guy and I feel that this situation is resolved.

I will keep you posted in a year.



My bet: He's hoping that you forget about this in a year and he never sees you again. If you do press it a year from now, he'll ask one simple question: Where's the contract I signed? Of course, there is none (at least none that's been mentioned). Then you're fawked.

You've been had. Sorry.
Link Posted: 10/11/2012 9:59:22 AM EST
actually I do have a written document - that says that he will grant me the discount in exchange of me not pursuing legal or public action

it's in the email form, and if he doesn't honor it, nothing stops me from resuming the process
Link Posted: 10/11/2012 2:01:14 PM EST
I hope this works out for you, but I have my doubts. Call me skeptical, but I predict another thread like this next year. Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/11/2012 3:06:40 PM EST
I guess, I trust people...to a certain level
Link Posted: 10/12/2012 7:23:44 PM EST
He's using that to silence you. If you say or post anything else derogatory about him he will go after you for breech of contract. Sounds like his brother the lawyer came to his defense.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:58:52 PM EST
After seeing what you've posted of others' experience with him, and seeing that some other GA HTFer's know about him, I would have told him I look forward to hearing from your brother (probably trying to scare you) because you are getting from me what I got from you, not shit.

And if you decide to take him up on his discount, whats the guarantee that you don't have a similar experience next time, or that he doesn't just ignore you outright? Hell, from the amount of people this guy rips off, he might not even be around in a year
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:24:53 PM EST
well, what can I say, I still believe that people are generally good. couple more bad experiences and I might change that opinion. on the other hand, I am prepared to unleash all my social-network-foo on him if he doesn't honor discount or try to cheat me somehow else, I will be prepared for it this time
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