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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/20/2009 11:24:59 AM EST
Europeans have survived real SHTF invasions many times in the past century. What lessons can we learn from them?
What seperated the average Frenchman, Pole, Slav, Sicilian etc. from his countrymen who failed besides lack of an obvious open belligerent attitude toward the usurpers that would have gotten them shot down quickly? Long term food, fuel, clothing, medicine etc. was scarce or non-existant. I would guess the succesful survivors didn't have the hive mine recommended beans, bullets and bandbaids laid up hip deep before their homeland invasion. I believe "live to fight another day" counts as a viable strategy when over whelmed by brute force? What is helpful in acheiving that? How much does one need to hone his "underground" plans? Thoughts?
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 11:28:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 11:55:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 12:24:54 PM EST by Powderfinger]
I am able. I have consumed many garden crops this summer as in years past. I put up frozen corn on the cob yesterday because I have the room. Not a lot but just an example of home grown food. They are grown in my plot and my dad's ( who grows lots more and has a greener thumb). Right now he is planning to harvest and store 30 or more sweet meat squash, has 2 dozen hills of spuds, 40' of beets, and another of 40' of carrots left. The "fake" spinach (New Zealand specie?) has bored the neighbors and friends to death it's so prolific. Let's say that in a true invasion, the scavengers of the opposing forces requisitioned what's left. So much for a garden, root room and larder.
My thoughts center more on the mindset of how those Europeans survived years of occupation. What set them apart in their survival skill?.

ETA: Dad was a butcher, midwest farmboy. Processing game, raising livestock etc. is no problem although I don't raise any at this time. Our commercial 3" throat grinder is always hungry for smoker and freezer foodstuffs. He tells of raising chickens and rabbits for food after the Depression drove them from the farm to west coast life in the 40's. Even then, he never had an indoor plumbing shitter til 1950 when he built one for his crippled dad. I'm sure dog would make an excellent meal with the right stir fry recipe.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 11:55:34 AM EST
And the will to survive.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 12:01:09 PM EST
The overwhelming vast majority of West Europeans survived occupation. The East Europeans and Russians had a tougher time, but most survived. I'd wager that the main difference between those who survived and those who died was luck.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 2:49:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By hammerkill:
And the will to survive.


This. I don't care what knowledge you have or or how much food, water, ammo, and medicine you've got stacked up in your basement....it all comes down to mental grit.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 3:00:00 PM EST
In war torn Europe the occupying Germans took people's belongings, food and even their firewood.

If anyone's version of SHTF includes a devastated war torn infrastructure AND an occupying army, better learn how to hide things real good. But always have obvious tidbits to offer.

Occupying armies are known for taking anything that is not nailed down, using homes as quarters and scorching the earth too. Not just in Europe, the Redcoats siezed private homes for barracks during the Revolutionary War, the American Civil War had it's share of 'taking and scorching' too.

Probably one of the more difficult SHTF scenarios to deal with.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 3:13:52 PM EST
Planting food is good only if you can store it. Having seeds to plant is better.

Remember this...when SHTF due to what Europeans have faced, your own property will be confiscated. So having seeds to take with you to plant will be more useful.

I always try to obtain extra persciptions. Having several variations of penecillian would be good. Buy a little medical equipment every month and set it aside. You can also buy medical hardware such as scalpuls, forecepts, manuals, gauze, anti-septic, ect ect.

Basically, if you have all of your equipment in packs, cases (with rollers), or on cots that can be carried by 2 people, that is the way to go.

I have set things up with many of my brothers so that if SHTF, each of us can form a group of 10 well armed and equipped people. After all, you can't do most things on your own very effectively.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 4:03:05 PM EST
The other thing about EU is the buildings were/are built to last....and the walls are so thick, it was easy to figure out how to hide things in them, under cellars, in caves, etc. etc.

In the USA, most of our homes are made of 2x4s and plywood.... a modern day occupier with thermal gear would ferret out stuff unless it was literally buried so deep as to be virtually unaccessible without alot of digging....

Then too, most Europeans were townfolk, cityfolk..... or lived in the boonies. They all knew each other going back generations so it was easy to help each other....most of our families are scattered, we don't really know each other very well.... neighbors are anonymous, etc.

But one thing we have going for us is the sheer size of these United States.... that people with out advanced degrees have been able to successfully carry on a multi-billion dollar trade in illegal drugs for the last 30 years with every jurisdiction after them.... tells me some times sheer size and extension is the best defense. Individual drug smugglers/producers/distributors routinely get taken down...but so long as there are tens of millions of clients, there's an inexhaustible supply of 'new' people to 'provide the service'.

In a situation of occupation....while we don't have the heavy weapons caches all over the place, I think we'd see similar attrition rates going down, drip, drip, drip from good ol boys taking odd pot shots with their 30-06s every now and then.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:01:19 PM EST
It's sad to say, but those who survived with the best chances were able to flee over borders into safe zones. We are talking extreme circumstances here, but leaving the country might be necessary. For example, Einstein got out of Germany in the 30s, when he saw the Nazis coming to power. Many many Eastern Europeaners fled to Russia from the oncoming German army. Those that made it across the border were shipped to Siberia to work on farms. Sounds like it would suck, except they survived the war and were able to return another day.

Also, in WWII those who fought in the insurgencies knew the areas, sewers, etc. under cities very well. They mapped them. Also many lived so deep in the woods that they were basically immune. Occupying armies have a lot more problems than some hillbilles hiding in the woods.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:27:03 PM EST
It's sad to say, but those who survived with the best chances were able to flee over borders into safe zones. We are talking extreme circumstances here, but leaving the country might be necessary. For example, Einstein got out of Germany in the 30s, when he saw the Nazis coming to power. Many many Eastern Europeaners fled to Russia from the oncoming German army. Those that made it across the border were shipped to Siberia to work on farms. Sounds like it would suck, except they survived the war and were able to return another day.

Also, in WWII those who fought in the insurgencies knew the areas, sewers, etc. under cities very well. They mapped them. Also many lived so deep in the woods that they were basically immune. Occupying armies have a lot more problems than some hillbilles hiding in the woods.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:48:29 PM EST
Alot of the people you are talking about lived through the will to survive and LUCK.

I'd rather bet on beans then luck.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 8:23:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lootie23:
Originally Posted By hammerkill:
And the will to survive.


This. I don't care what knowledge you have or or how much food, water, ammo, and medicine you've got stacked up in your basement....it all comes down to mental grit.

Yes........without the will to live nothing else will much matter.



5sub
Link Posted: 9/21/2009 3:26:25 AM EST
one key lesson from germany in the 1930s is that it is very hard to figure out when to bugout. Many very smart Jews had to decide when to leave sucessful businesses and decided to wait just a little bit longer; as things slowly got worse they kept adjusting.

Many ended up dying in gas chambers.

Many of the ones that lived did so by imigrating early to the US and other countries (their BOL), setting up new businesses, and not trying to time when to bugout.
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