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Posted: 3/30/2014 6:13:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2014 6:19:52 PM EST by Sinatra]
I am considering purchasing some silver for trade when it all goes down. I am looking for recommendations as to which form (bars, coins, etc.) may work best.
I would also like to know what the preferred companies are. I'm totally new to this so I appreciate your help.

Thanks!


ETA: My hesitation to invest in silver is that I don't know how many people will value it (or gold for that matter) and actually be willing to trade for it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 6:14:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2014 6:15:25 PM EST by hawk1]
I'll just leave this here and hope it helps- https://comparesilverprices.com/


Myself, I have a mixture of each, rounds, Eagles, and bars...



EDIT for live link
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 6:17:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hawk1:
I'll just leave this here and hope it helps- https://comparesilverprices.com/


Myself, I have a mixture of each, rounds, Eagles, and bars...



EDIT for live link
View Quote



Great info. Thank you.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 6:25:58 PM EST
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.

I'm in the exactly opposite position. I will absolutely take it in trade. I figure I could trade 20% of my supplies and and maybe 15% of my ammo and excess firearms. Possibly more depending on the situation. Now you will pay a premium because if your starving then that can of beans or cup of rice now has a whole lot more value then that gold coin. But that gold coin will help me or possibly my kids when things settle back down and they always settle back down.

I am a business man now and see no reason to not look at all possible ways to increase my wealth even in times of trouble.

I would suggest American coins as they are the easiest for people to verify a known weight for the most part.

As for where to buy them I have found my local coin store to be the best place but you need to become a friendly regular to get the best deals. Mine calls me when he gets a paticularly good bargain on the coins I normally buy. Eagles, Morgans, and Peace dollars.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 6:45:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.

I'm in the exactly opposite position. I will absolutely take it in trade. I figure I could trade 20% of my supplies and and maybe 15% of my ammo and excess firearms. Possibly more depending on the situation. Now you will pay a premium because if your starving then that can of beans or cup of rice now has a whole lot more value then that gold coin. But that gold coin will help me or possibly my kids when things settle back down and they always settle back down.

I am a business man now and see no reason to not look at all possible ways to increase my wealth even in times of trouble.

I would suggest American coins as they are the easiest for people to verify a known weight for the most part.

As for where to buy them I have found my local coin store to be the best place but you need to become a friendly regular to get the best deals. Mine calls me when he gets a paticularly good bargain on the coins I normally buy. Eagles, Morgans, and Peace dollars.
View Quote



Good points. My thought is that it may be quite some time before PM's become of real trading value after everything goes south.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 7:08:09 PM EST
"Junk" silver IMO.

Easily recognizable, small denominations, floor on value (face value).
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 7:53:33 PM EST


How much sliver was traded during Sandy? Or the black out? Or snow storms?

Not against silver, and I consider it a good hedge against inflation / dollar collapses though. I would guess we'll keep pulling economic rabbits out of our hast for the next 15 - 20 years before it all comes down though.

Link Posted: 3/30/2014 8:41:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2014 8:55:04 PM EST by mPisi]
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Originally Posted By Sinatra:

Good points. My thought is that it may be quite some time before PM's become of real trading value after everything goes south.
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Originally Posted By Sinatra:
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
I'm in the exactly opposite position. I will absolutely take it in trade. I figure I could trade 20% of my supplies and and maybe 15% of my ammo and excess firearms. Possibly more depending on the situation. Now you will pay a premium because if your starving then that can of beans or cup of rice now has a whole lot more value then that gold coin. But that gold coin will help me or possibly my kids when things settle back down and they always settle back down.

Good points. My thought is that it may be quite some time before PM's become of real trading value after everything goes south.


I'm with georgiagun. Metals are just another form of barter. Come to me peacefully and maybe we can make a deal. Inevitably I'll have some surpluses in my supplies and some gaps. Maybe you need my surpluses but don't have anything useful. Well, gold or silver will bridge that gap and maybe let me get what I need from somebody else.

BTW, "quite some time" means "when it's obvious there's no more 'full faith and credit of the US government' to back FRNs". That could be a while or almost instantly. Sandy, blackouts, and snow storms don't cause abandonment of FRNs since it's not an existential crisis for the US, and everyone knows that the FRN system will return in some time, and debts would be settled. Of course, if I owned a gas station, in those emergencies folks with gold or silver would get preference like cash, versus people trying to write checks or promise on their non-working credit card.

ETA: To answer your type question, for a survival stash I'd start with buying a decent amount of '64 and earlier US coins, preferably dimes. It all weighs the same so why not have the smaller units for making change, and you can buy a full roll of dimes for <$100 so you can make it a part of your monthly budget. Probably $50 in face value would be nice, that's a bit over $750 today. Once that is done you can get into bigger stuff, whatever meets your taste. US eagles or maple leafs are preferred over generic rounds and especially over bars to me, but not by a huge margin. In a barter situation anything you'd be doing with silver coins is still small enough that to me accepting a fake won't ruin you. Versus gold is getting into big deals so I'll be very suspicious and therefore credit US gold eagles or maple leafs much more than rounds or bars from non-national mints
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 9:38:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2014 9:40:03 PM EST by Badger545]
Food for thought: those who don't have supplies wont place much value on the gold/silver they have because they can't eat it/shoot it/etc. which means they'd trade a lot of metal for a small amount of food or whatever. And considering that gold has held it's value since the dawn of mankind, once society normalizes, one could have amassed a decent amount of wealth. So I would definitely accept them as form of payment. Whether people will except my metals for barter remains to be seen. But I'm thinking theres a better chance of people trading in metals than with worthless paper with pictures of presidents on them
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 9:44:10 PM EST
I have some silver, but it's for diversification while thing are still (sort of) working.
If things went totally tits up I'd probably use it to make crappy nails or bullets.

.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 10:04:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
"Junk" silver IMO.

Easily recognizable, small denominations, floor on value (face value).
View Quote



Pretty much this, if you can get it for close to Spot.

Also, It's hard to counterfeit.


For the people that say "It's only a hedge". Well, OK, so it's a hedge, also.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 10:07:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.
View Quote



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 10:15:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BillofRights:



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 10:35:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.
View Quote


Nobody is suggesting that silver will get someone to give up their basic sustenance or vital tools in exchange. If nobody has a surplus of food, then nobody's buying or selling (given the same information about likely future conditions). But if I have excess rice and you have no food but do have silver, you can get some rice. Sure, I could barter for something else you might have, if I really need something. Precious metals are just an easier means of exchange than many common stockpiled items, they lubricate exchange. I don't need to make a perfect match between my needs and your needs, once I get your silver I can go get what I need. Then, if I know you're paying a good price in real money for rice, I'll even bring in rice from outside the area. I really don't give a crap about bartering for liquor or .22LR if I'm in a safe place where that is plentiful, but real money will get one's attention.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 11:04:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mPisi:


Nobody is suggesting that silver will get someone to give up their basic sustenance or vital tools in exchange. If nobody has a surplus of food, then nobody's buying or selling (given the same information about likely future conditions). But if I have excess rice and you have no food but do have silver, you can get some rice. Sure, I could barter for something else you might have, if I really need something. Precious metals are just an easier means of exchange than many common stockpiled items, they lubricate exchange. I don't need to make a perfect match between my needs and your needs, once I get your silver I can go get what I need. Then, if I know you're paying a good price in real money for rice, I'll even bring in rice from outside the area. I really don't give a crap about bartering for liquor or .22LR if I'm in a safe place where that is plentiful, but real money will get one's attention.
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Originally Posted By mPisi:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.


Nobody is suggesting that silver will get someone to give up their basic sustenance or vital tools in exchange. If nobody has a surplus of food, then nobody's buying or selling (given the same information about likely future conditions). But if I have excess rice and you have no food but do have silver, you can get some rice. Sure, I could barter for something else you might have, if I really need something. Precious metals are just an easier means of exchange than many common stockpiled items, they lubricate exchange. I don't need to make a perfect match between my needs and your needs, once I get your silver I can go get what I need. Then, if I know you're paying a good price in real money for rice, I'll even bring in rice from outside the area. I really don't give a crap about bartering for liquor or .22LR if I'm in a safe place where that is plentiful, but real money will get one's attention.


When everyone is starving, there is no "money."
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 1:05:49 AM EST
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Originally Posted By markl32:


How much sliver was traded during Sandy? Or the black out? Or snow storms?

Not against silver, and I consider it a good hedge against inflation / dollar collapses though. I would guess we'll keep pulling economic rabbits out of our hast for the next 15 - 20 years before it all comes down though.

View Quote


I'm actually trading it right now. I was a little on the lucky side and bought a ton of .22lr when my lgs had a sale on some he bought at the shot show before it became the holy grail of ammo. Bought bricks for $12.99. I occasionally trade it for silver dollars to friends in need. Right now I'm taking 2 silver eagles per brick.

There remains a very large bartering/ trading community right under the surface of today's economy. And from what I have seen it is as strong or stronger then our real economy. If you work craigslist or start to ask you will see it in action. Don't bother asking at Walmart, but any small business or local person will be very willing to trade and barter for the right value. For a lot of us it is making the difference between success and failure.

Please don't misunderstand my intent. My real job pays the bills and takes care of the usual things. But trading, including silver is going on all the time and I am certain it continued during the events you mentioned.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 1:24:26 AM EST
Silver is great to store economic value from the time before The Crisis until after The Crisis has ended.

It would probably have to be traded away at a discount during The Crisis.

A well prepared person might be offered silver at a discount during The Crisis in exchange for extra preps.

Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:44:56 AM EST
I agree pms and cash won't work once things get to the point there are just no surplus supplies to be had. But, I keep some gold and silver coins, and some cash mainly for the early stages of a crisis. Roadblock ahead? "Excuse me sir, perhaps we can make a deal." I prefer coins since they help allay suspicions on the part of your trading partner. U.S. currency has a legitimacy about it. How do I know your gold bars really weigh what you say? How do I know their purity? A gold eagle in your palm and a handshake will get you a lot farther than a handsake alone.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 5:49:22 AM EST
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 6:27:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/31/2014 6:36:26 AM EST by leeleatherwood]
If you were dying of dehydration but had 100 silver bars and I had 100 liters of water.

You would die.

I don't need silver, it has zero use to me in SHTF.

EDIT: After you died I would surely take your silver though.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 6:41:12 AM EST
For those who say they will take it in trade: How will you assay it? Take the seller’s word that it is .9999 silver? If you are talking “junk silver coins”, why do you think a sliver dime will be worth more than a shiny new dime?
I can see silver or gold as a hedge against inflation, but i never see it being traded in a TEOTWAWKI situation.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 6:59:28 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeJGA:
For those who say they will take it in trade: How will you assay it? Take the seller’s word that it is .9999 silver? If you are talking “junk silver coins”, why do you think a sliver dime will be worth more than a shiny new dime?
I can see silver or gold as a hedge against inflation, but i never see it being traded in a TEOTWAWKI situation.
View Quote


this.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 7:06:38 AM EST
Diversification. If/when the dollar goes belly up, there will have to be SOMETHING for trade for when it all gets sorted out. Make no mistake, the high rollers more than likely have PLENTY of gold/silver around. That means that they will deem it as an interim "currency" until they figure out and implement the next fiat system.


SO

You will need to dump all your cash to the sheeple who don't think it is all going down (situation dependent) as it is falling, then use beans and rice for DURING the S hitting the F. After some normalcy starts to arise, then he with the most shiny metal is now the richest person in town.


Diversify
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 8:16:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By leeleatherwood:


this.
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Originally Posted By leeleatherwood:
Originally Posted By MikeJGA:
For those who say they will take it in trade: How will you assay it? Take the seller’s word that it is .9999 silver? If you are talking “junk silver coins”, why do you think a sliver dime will be worth more than a shiny new dime?
I can see silver or gold as a hedge against inflation, but i never see it being traded in a TEOTWAWKI situation.


this.


Google is your friend!

Nitric acid test: Lightly scratch the item that you are looking to test, and then apply a drop or two of nitric acid. Items that are only silver plated will cause the liquid to turn green. A cloudy gray color will be seen in the liquid if the item is sterling silver.


http://www.opencurrency.com/3-quick-ways-to-help-tell-real-silver-from-fake-silver/

1) The Ring Test

Silver has a nice ringing sound when it is tapped. If it is a coin, you can flick it into the air. Alternatively, you can gently tap it with another coin. In both instances, you should hear a high-pitched bell-type ring that lasts about 1-2 seconds. A fun way to try this is with a U.S. quarter from the years 1932-1964, which is 90% silver, and with a modern U.S. quarter (post 1965), which is 91.67% copper and 8.33% nickel. The silver quarter ring will be much higher-pitched compared to the dull ring of the copper quarter. Be careful when doing this with whatever coin you are testing so as not to ding or damage it.

2) The Ice Test

In addition to having the highest electrical conductivity of any element, silver also has the highest thermal conductivity of any metal. If you place an ice cube on a silver coin or bar, the ice will begin to melt immediately. Obviously, ice will melt if placed on anything at room temperature, for example, but if placed on silver it will melt much more quickly and impressively. Try it!

3) The Magnet Test

Silver is not magnetic. If you place a strong, rare-earth magnet called a Neodymium magnet on a silver coin or bar, it should not easily stick to it. If you are testing bars, you can angle one at 45 degrees and let the magnet slide down. It should slide down very slowly. If it sticks or it slides very quickly, it is not silver. However, keep in mind that just because the magnet does not stick does not necessarily mean that it is silver.

These three tests are not absolutely determinative, but they are quick ways to help you gauge the purity of your “silver” if you do not have a digital scale readily available or do not want use silver acid testing. Of course, they are especially useful if you have a piece of silver you know is pure and you are using it against a not sure pure “silver” coin or bar that has a highly imitative look and feel of silver.

Link Posted: 3/31/2014 8:40:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/31/2014 8:43:23 AM EST by Vault_Boy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.



And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL
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Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 10:02:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sinatra:
ETA: My hesitation to invest in silver is that I don't know how many people will value it (or gold for that matter) and actually be willing to trade for it.
View Quote

This is actually the key right here.

Nobody knows.

If you make the choice to have some PM's,
looking at your location, I would stick with American Silver Eagles and U.S. Pre-1965 silver coins.
(Halves, quarters, dimes) - great for smaller trades / change

Morgan and Peace dollars have a bit more silver and tend to be priced higher than other coinage at the moment, due to demand and collectibility.
They are nice if you can get them close to melt value.

Gold coins, I would stick with 1/10 or 1/4 Eagles.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 11:57:47 AM EST
Smaller is better for barter. 10 oz bars, while less per oz than 1 oz bars/rounds once youre out the door, are harder to trade for small every day stuff.

Junk silver
Recognizable brands of 1/2 and 1 oz silver bars and rounds
Some larger bars if you want to hold long term

Also -
22 ammo, 9mm ammo, and other items that will be incredibly valuable to those who did not stock up on it

I spread it out even within silver, ammo, and other barter items. For example keep the good ammo for yourself and if you find it cheap, get the crap ammo for barter. If TSHTF ever really happens the average guy who did not plan ahead and desperately needs ammo wont care what as long as it shoots.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 12:06:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.


Food and ammo aren't the only things people will want to obtain. If things are so bad that nobody is willing to barter in any goods then silver and gold will not do you any good until things have calmed down. If people are engaging in any sort of commerce, and history tells us that they will in nearly all circumstances, then silver and gold will have value for such trading.

It serves the same purpose as any currency. It is a means of exchange that doesn't require exact goods. If you have .22LR ammo for trade, but I don't have a .22LR or I already have more .22LR ammo than I will ever need you will have better luck trading with me using PMs. If you refuse to take PMs that is your choice but that doesn't mean nobody will. They are as close as you can get to a universal currency and having them in easily recognizable denominations such as minted coins simplifies that exchange.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 12:16:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.





See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.


Actually that severe scenario would allow me to trade even more. I have quite few guns and ammo that have little value to me in a full blown crash. So they would be an easy trade for silver or gold. Plus they would be valued even higher. What am I going to do? Bury them and dig them up 20 years later after things have settled back down? I can hoard gold and have that wealth in 20 years. Be better then a bunch of 20 year old ammo.

What about people with surplus? I've got chickens so I can trade eggs. Maybe all you have to trade is ammo..... I don't need anymore. Oh wait what's that gold watch you have....
Your assuming that people won't have surplus items even in a complete breakdown.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 12:38:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sinatra:
Good points. My thought is that it may be quite some time before PM's become of real trading value after everything goes south.
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I would agree, but if you can trade it for devauled dollars, pesos, glass beads, bitcoins, or some future government scipt, it fulfills it's goal.

I doubt I could spend 50,000 yuan in the next week in my home country, but they still have value. The difference is in a total colapse, PMs should hold value, while paper money probally want.


My personal choice is junk silver, becuse it's the closest to spot price of silver. Almost impossable to counterfit profitibaly, at least unless silver hits $50/oz again.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 1:02:14 PM EST
Ammo will be better than gold or silver during SHTF in my opinion. In a catastrophic event, I personally won't be looking to secure my future finances. Money doesn't mean that much to me. I'll be concerned with my family's sustenance and security. We constantly evaluate our small farm as if it will have to provide for us





I do have an amount of silver, but I have more invested in ammo and reloading supplies.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 1:30:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.
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Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:

But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL


only a moron would trade ammo or food for metal in a total collapse. People worshipped Ra for thousands of years, too.
You didn't live through a total collapse, you experienced one small country having an economic collapse.
We aren't talking about the same situation.


Its not my experience alone, same thing happened in different scenarios where economies went to hell, from Zimbabwe to Weimar Republic, from the fall of the Roman Empire almost two thousand years ago to the "Great Debasements" in the United Kingdom. But hey, if your own personal fantasy is what you are basing your preparedness on good luck with that, whatever floats your boat.

Originally Posted By georgiagun:

Actually that severe scenario would allow me to trade even more. I have quite few guns and ammo that have little value to me in a full blown crash. So they would be an easy trade for silver or gold. Plus they would be valued even higher. What am I going to do? Bury them and dig them up 20 years later after things have settled back down? I can hoard gold and have that wealth in 20 years. Be better then a bunch of 20 year old ammo.

What about people with surplus? I've got chickens so I can trade eggs. Maybe all you have to trade is ammo..... I don't need anymore. Oh wait what's that gold watch you have....
Your assuming that people won't have surplus items even in a complete breakdown.


We see it time and again, when fiat currencies look bad, people find refugee in PM. I was just checking ebay today, even for scrap silver on ebay its hard to go below spot, bids quickly bring the price up to what the metal is really worth in today's market. This will only get more noticeable during an economic collapse with people only trusting commodities.
While PM are something to consider only once you have your basic needs covered (meaning plenty of food, water and some savings, including a nice cash stash) you sure can spend money in worse things than PM. Hell, all the "this will be worth its weight in gold after SHTF" BS is a good example.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 2:03:30 PM EST
I have the same opinion. A currency is made by people who agree that something has value. Who's coming forward and saying, "Well your dollar bills are useless, but this old sack of silver change I have is worth something." People will need to agree that it is indeed, worth something and have a standard for establishing its' worth.

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Originally Posted By markl32:


How much sliver was traded during Sandy? Or the black out? Or snow storms?

Not against silver, and I consider it a good hedge against inflation / dollar collapses though. I would guess we'll keep pulling economic rabbits out of our hast for the next 15 - 20 years before it all comes down though.

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Link Posted: 3/31/2014 2:14:20 PM EST
Gold and Silver being of value is something engrained into damn near everybody since they could speak. Thus, the perception of value is there, even Johnny Crackhead knows it's worth something. That said, it's my belief that a coin stamped 10z fine silver will go farther with most of America than a bag full of pre-65 stuff. Why? Knowledge. Humor me, and go ask a coworker, which is more valuable, a 1962 quarter, or a 1975 quarter. See what they say. Most Americans think they're both worth 25 cents. Try telling them that your 1962 quarter is worth a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk, and they'll you.


Then again, to contradict myself, there's that Mark ??? video of him trying to sell a $50 CAN gold coin, for $50, and nobody would buy it. Would things have been different if it was a US coin? Who knows. All I know is that if things get bad, I'll take PM in trade (because I feel confident I can trade it for something else), not interested in your 60" LED tv.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 2:48:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.



And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL
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Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Id' go for a mix of large and small silver coins. The kind that are well recognized whereever you are, pre 65 dimes make sense in US, silver threepences would work in UK and Europe in general. One thing I learned the hard way, silver is nice, but gold is light. If you ever have to become mobile, dragging a ton of silver gets old fast, as in the first two steps you take. Things get even more interesting when you have to hide it. Gold looks expensive but it takes up so much less volume.

Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


.22lr or rice would be worth more to me.
Just my opinion.



See?

So I'll trade you a box of .22 for a couple Silver Dollars.

It's a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less.


But I wouldn't trade you the other way around. You have to live through the bad times before your Uncle Scrooge stash of silver/gold is worth anything.
If things are so bad I'm hungry, your silver isn't worth a damn to me & neither is mine.

If you want something to trade for metal in total SHTF, buy salt & sugar. But make sure you have something to eat while things get back to normal...someday.


And since you are the center of the universe, that is supposed to mean that silver and gold wont hold value for anyone else?
It may be hard to believe, but sometimes its not about you, its actually the other way around. Its about what everybody else (as in humanity) considered to be valuable for thousands of years.
FerFAL


To add a little to what FerFAL is saying V_B, what we like to refer to as SHTF, was actually the normal living conditions for most of humanity, over 95% of it's History.

Understanding the History of barter and trade is much more useful for predicting the future than speculating on how you feel it should work.

Even today, there are places in Africa where anarchy and starvation is the norm, and where gold will buy you food.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:01:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/1/2014 5:03:43 PM EST by raimius]
As long as some have excess local supply and transportation exists, there will be commerce. Silver has been an agreed medium for a couple thousand years. I think it's unlikely to change.

Now, the issue is what the market price stands at! If you bought $2K worth of silver a couple years ago, you have a non-inflation adjusted $1K now!
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:03:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.
View Quote


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:38:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By raimius:
As long as some have excess local supply and transportation exists, there will be commerce. Silver has been an agreed medium for a couple thousand years. I don't think it's unlikely to change.

Now, the issue is what the market price stands at! If you bought $2K worth of silver a couple years ago, you have a non-inflation adjusted $1K now!
View Quote



Honestly, i think it's getting pretty close to buy time, for those with the resources.

Couple Years ago, when it was going through the roof, I said my buy point was around 15-16ish.

This is just based on intuitive, common sense-ballpark estimate of where the long term price was, vs how much inflation and money creation we've seen since 2001.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:42:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/31/2014 3:43:36 PM EST by BillofRights]
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"



Many people with the SF mindset have a very narrow, unsophisticated view of economics. That, by it's self isn't strange, but the tenacity with which they hold onto their vision, is.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:57:09 PM EST
I suspect a bottle of Capt. Morgan will be worth more than a few silver dollars if SHTF.

Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:13:10 PM EST
I find it kind of funny that the only thing on this forum that really garners this much anti-sentiment
is gold and silver.


Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:23:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
I find it kind of funny that the only thing on this forum that really garners this much anti-sentiment
is gold and silver.


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I have never quite been able to figure that one out.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:29:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:

I have never quite been able to figure that one out.
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
I find it kind of funny that the only thing on this forum that really garners this much anti-sentiment
is gold and silver.

I have never quite been able to figure that one out.

I really, really wish I was as certain as some people seem to be as to what is actually going to happen in the future.
Sure would make prepping a lot easier.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:39:42 PM EST
Having followed these types of forums since the late 90's, I've noticed that the same people who always said to buy .22LR and stack it deep seem to be the people saying to buy silver now. I haven't bought any, but I think it's interesting.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:41:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"


Of course not. The people with silver would take their wealth and evacuate. They wouldn't have to hang around to be asked.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:50:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By memphisliving:
Having followed these types of forums since the late 90's, I've noticed that the same people who always said to buy .22LR and stack it deep seem to be the people saying to buy silver now. I haven't bought any, but I think it's interesting.
View Quote

You would have to point those people out,
I been in this forum specifically since 2001, and have not noticed that.
-more like the anti-PM people say .22LR is the currency of the future.............

I never suggest to anyone to buy PM's, but by the same token, I never tell them not to, or that I think it's dumb.
Everyone's situation is different and everyone preps differently.
When it comes to prepping for their family, I would only advise against doing something that was illegal or harmful.

It's more when people like the OP mention that they are thinking about getting some PM's, or asking how to get some,
the anti-PM people usually jump in the with the "silver and gold are worthless in SHTF"

My favorite post over the last few years was someone saying that they GUARANTEE that gold and silver will be worthless.
he never did post what guarantee he was giving.......
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 5:08:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"


Actually you have it backwards. They will be knocking on my door and I will ask them what they can trade some fuel/food/wood for because I have what they need.
Pawpaw's silver coin collection? Yup bring it on over and I will pack you a bag of food give you five gallons of gas and a wheelbarrow load of wood. And because you're my neighbor I will help you carry it and stack it. Plus I will show you where you can get 40 gallons of fresh water from you water heater and help you set traps for all those neihborhood squirrels that are everywhere.

See how that works?

Link Posted: 3/31/2014 5:21:40 PM EST
My philosophy is pretty simple: History doesn't always repeat but it does rhyme. Silver and Gold have had value to other human beings for thousands of years, including the Dark Ages, war, famine, depression, as well as the good times. Ergo, it stands to reason that it is highly likely that they will be considered to have value in the future. This is likely to be true before, during, and after SHTF since it has always been thus.

One way to think of PMs is that silver can be considered a good medium of exchange whereas gold is perhaps better considered as a compact storage of wealth. (Silver = money, gold = wealth). If you think the dollar/market/USeconomy is about to go tango uniform and you want to convert your 401K or other dollar denominated assets into something to preserve that pile of wealth, gold is what you have to convert it to, assuming everyone else hasn't already beaten you to the punch and bought all the available physical metal. On the other hand, filling up a couple of cans of gasoline would cost far less than the smallest reasonable gold coin (1/10oz Golden Eagle, for example). So, a silver coin would be far more useful for day-to-day transactions.

On the what type of silver to buy, I have to believe that US Silver Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs provide the most widely recognized form of silver, and they are made in a convenient ~$20 bill size right now (which could be a ~$50 bill like a few years back). I'm a little partial to Canadian Maple Leafs for two reasons: (1) The Maple Leafs are .9999 silver whereas the US coin is .999 and (2) the face value on the Canadian coin is $5 Canadian (vs. $1 for US SEs) so that provides a "floor" much larger than the US coin should silver prices completely tank.

I would stay away from the "junk silver" coins simply because not that many people know which ones are silver or not and those that want the silver don't want to have to extract it from the coin. If you needed to make silver bullets, for example, it's much easier to melt down a Maple Leaf than it is to extract the silver from a coin that has a variable amount of silver and a whole bunch of other stuff you don't want/need. Bars made by some random mint again have the problem of recognition by the majority of people you might want to trade/barter with.

I haven't bought as much silver and gold as I should. A lot of financial experts are (now) saying that you should have between 5% and 10% of your portfolio's value in PMs. I guess that's so they don't cut their own throat by suggesting that PMs will always hold some value whereas stocks and bonds can and have gone to zero. It's all about risk vs. contingency planning - you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket and should have a contingency plan for what to do should the risk you have accepted to get the return on investment turns out to be real vs. academic.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 10:42:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By georgiagun:


Actually you have it backwards. They will be knocking on my door and I will ask them what they can trade some fuel/food/wood for because I have what they need.
Pawpaw's silver coin collection? Yup bring it on over and I will pack you a bag of food give you five gallons of gas and a wheelbarrow load of wood. And because you're my neighbor I will help you carry it and stack it. Plus I will show you where you can get 40 gallons of fresh water from you water heater and help you set traps for all those neihborhood squirrels that are everywhere.

See how that works?

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Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By georgiagun:
Many here will tell you it's a waste as silver or pm's won't have value because you can't eat it or shoot it.


Yep.

Nobody is going to come to your door, and say "Hey, the power is out, there's no gasoline, I'm hungry, and my house is freezing. I'll do anything you want if I can just have some of your silver!"


Actually you have it backwards. They will be knocking on my door and I will ask them what they can trade some fuel/food/wood for because I have what they need.
Pawpaw's silver coin collection? Yup bring it on over and I will pack you a bag of food give you five gallons of gas and a wheelbarrow load of wood. And because you're my neighbor I will help you carry it and stack it. Plus I will show you where you can get 40 gallons of fresh water from you water heater and help you set traps for all those neihborhood squirrels that are everywhere.

See how that works?




This. And then you use the silver to get something else you need, such as a tractor, or whatever.
Link Posted: 4/1/2014 1:45:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
I find it kind of funny that the only thing on this forum that really garners this much anti-sentiment
is gold and silver.


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The Taurus Judge comes to mind.
Link Posted: 4/1/2014 2:59:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By raimius:
As long as some have excess local supply and transportation exists, there will be commerce. Silver has been an agreed medium for a couple thousand years. I don't think it's unlikely to change.

Now, the issue is what the market price stands at! If you bought $2K worth of silver a couple years ago, you have a non-inflation adjusted $1K now!
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Which is very similar to the people that bought $1.00/round .223 or $0.10/rnd .22LR last year.
what is it worth today?
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