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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/13/2012 5:03:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 5:10:02 AM EST by SigOwner_P229]
If you haven't already heard, the SHTF for some people on the south side of Indianapolis late Saturday night that emphasizes the need for a BOB and some essential supplies stored off-site.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/12/15110656-massive-indianapolis-explosion-baffles-investigators?lite

Investigators still don't know the cause but reports have been pretty wild. Conspiracy theories include a Predator drone that went rogue and fired Hellfire missiles. Speculators have speculated meth lab, gas leak, VBIED, and many other possible causes. But the fact of the matter remains. A whole lot of people were jarred from their beds and/or couches late in the evening by an explosion that vaporized 2 houses (killing 2 in the house next door to the one that exploded), gutted 2 houses by fire, and damaged a total of 31 houses badly enough that they will need to be demolished. In total 80 houses in the entire neighborhood were evacuated and residents were not allowed to return until the next day. They were only allowed to return the next day if their home was safe to enter and it was only long enough for them to grab what they could carry by hand in a single trip into the home. he evacuees were sent to a local school (no-carry zone) so if you intend to carry for self-defense in this situation you better have a back-up plan to that as well.

I know the destruction here is nothing compared to Sandy, but there was warning with Sandy. A couple days warning. And even with a tornado you normally get at least several minutes of warning. With an explosion like that you don't get any warning. Better hope your BOB is nearby and it's stocked well. It never hurts to have supplies at a friends house either (preferably far enough away that it can't also be affected by the same disaster you were involved in).

ETA, my own speculation on a cause. The house that blew up was up for short-sale last fall and through this spring but didn't sell. The house had a "for-sale by owner" sign in the front yard. The couple was separated or divorced and wife, child, boyfriend were living in the house. They were "out of town" when it happened. Husband claims that earlier in the week the daughter sent him a text that the furnace was malfunctioning but mother claims not such text was sent. I think husband had an "insurance fire" to get out from under the mortgage since they were now divorced. He either picked a time when they were out of town, or they colluded to plan a time they'd be out of town. Unfortunately for the neighbors the "insurance fire" was more of an "insurnance explosion" that killed them, wounded 8 others, and destroyed 31 homes beyond repair. That is just my opinion based upon the "facts" posted by the various news stories.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 5:55:55 AM EST
If there was indeed a text message, furnace repairs, etc. there will be plenty of records to back it up. As for the divorce, short sale, etc. there is a good chance it's just coincidence. During heating season there is a gas explosion somewhere pretty much every week (search news reports to find them). Nat. gas may burn relatively clean and be relatively inexpensive, but it is not safe in any way. Even in a controlled industrial setting it is not safe, look up the news report on the nat gas fired power plant built in CT a few years ago that was leveled by the explosion while purging the NG feed pipeline before the plant ever got to produce any power. Look at the pictures how that building was blown apart.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 5:59:18 AM EST
There was a trailer house that went up near my gf's house. It was out at a crossroads in the country with just a few cheap houses at the intersection. Completely leveled the trailer, but it didn't destroy any of the homes nearby, other than some broken windows. Her house and her sister's house were about 1 to 2 miles down the farm road where their windows were rattled and they though their outside propane tanks exploded.

It all came down to a gas leak in the trailer. Made an air-fuel bomb of the right proportions and leveled it.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 7:21:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By wp6529:
If there was indeed a text message, furnace repairs, etc. there will be plenty of records to back it up. As for the divorce, short sale, etc. there is a good chance it's just coincidence. During heating season there is a gas explosion somewhere pretty much every week (search news reports to find them).


Yes, there is a chance its only coincidence, but if you comb the numerous reports on it there is indication that something is starting to sound a bit fishy. Also, on INgunowners there are several police officers that have worked the scene that have given updates and some indications as to what some of the possibilities are. If I'm not mistaken DHS and ATF have both suspected it to be arson and they're currently investigating. The gas company said there are no indicators of a routine gas-leak.

Either way, it was a big boom. It was heard and felt as far as 8 miles away according to some reports. Insulation was raining down on peoples yards as far as a mile away. Here is a link with much better photos of the damage done. The house with the basement that is relatively empty is the one that blew up and the other house that is completely destroyed next to it is the house where the young couple died. They were trapped in the basement.

The absolute devastation and the displacement of so many residents is really what this thread was meant to discuss; otherwise it's just a news story.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 7:50:22 AM EST
Im not a explosives expert but i cant fathom there being enough natural gas built up in a home to cause and explosion of that magnitude!

But yes, one of a few cases when you would need to bug out and need a BOB.

I however, still plan to BUG IN in most cases as leaving my home and supplies to live in the woods with a bunch of squirrels is just crazy.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 7:58:27 AM EST
On a related note, I did a little research on monolithic domes this morning, and it is not recommended to use natural gas or propane in them,due to their airtight condition. I hope that doesn't mean you can't cook with propane either....
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 8:19:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By 41magluva:
On a related note, I did a little research on monolithic domes this morning, and it is not recommended to use natural gas or propane in them,due to their airtight condition. I hope that doesn't mean you can't cook with propane either....


It means that you shouldn't cook with a flame, which can eat up the oxygen in the dome.

That's my guess.

Put a candle in a closed environment and watch what happens.


Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:12:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spartikis:

I however, still plan to BUG IN in most cases as leaving my home and supplies to live in the woods with a bunch of squirrels is just crazy.


Exactly right, but when the authorities knock and tell you that you have to leave, or your house isn't livable at all, then you don't really have any options and it's best to be prepared and say, "Hold on, let me grab a couple things really quick and I'll be right out".

BTW, even homes with minor damage had to evacuate their homes. They were told to leave. Unfortunately, discussion of this incident on Ingunowners has uncovered a state statute that makes it a Class A misdemeanor to refuse to leave in that situation so there is no option.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 11:08:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:

I however, still plan to BUG IN in most cases as leaving my home and supplies to live in the woods with a bunch of squirrels is just crazy.


Exactly right, but when the authorities knock and tell you that you have to leave, or your house isn't livable at all, then you don't really have any options and it's best to be prepared and say, "Hold on, let me grab a couple things really quick and I'll be right out".

BTW, even homes with minor damage had to evacuate their homes. They were told to leave. Unfortunately, discussion of this incident on Ingunowners has uncovered a state statute that makes it a Class A misdemeanor to refuse to leave in that situation so there is no option.


This kind of shit drives me straight up the wall!

Nobody should be subject to arrest for refusing to leave their home.

They should be told "We are leaving now. We will not come back until this is over, at which time we will pull your corpse out of the wreckage if we can find it. Have a nice day."

Link Posted: 11/13/2012 11:18:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Him:
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:

I however, still plan to BUG IN in most cases as leaving my home and supplies to live in the woods with a bunch of squirrels is just crazy.


Exactly right, but when the authorities knock and tell you that you have to leave, or your house isn't livable at all, then you don't really have any options and it's best to be prepared and say, "Hold on, let me grab a couple things really quick and I'll be right out".

BTW, even homes with minor damage had to evacuate their homes. They were told to leave. Unfortunately, discussion of this incident on Ingunowners has uncovered a state statute that makes it a Class A misdemeanor to refuse to leave in that situation so there is no option.


This kind of shit drives me straight up the wall!

Nobody should be subject to arrest for refusing to leave their home.

They should be told "We are leaving now. We will not come back until this is over, at which time we will pull your corpse out of the wreckage if we can find it. Have a nice day."

This.

Our .gov has to just stop helping us.
I dont know how much more help I can take.
Just get out of the fucking way, we can all look after ourselves, given the chance.

IMHO YMMV

Link Posted: 11/13/2012 11:34:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 11:38:28 AM EST by SigOwner_P229]
Originally Posted By Him:
This kind of shit drives me straight up the wall!

Nobody should be subject to arrest for refusing to leave their home.

They should be told "We are leaving now. We will not come back until this is over, at which time we will pull your corpse out of the wreckage if we can find it. Have a nice day."

Well, it sucks, but it is what it is...

IC 35-44.1-4-5 Refusal to leave an emergency incident area
Sec. 5. A person who is not a firefighter who knowingly or intentionally refuses to leave an emergency incident area immediately after being requested to do so by a firefighter or law enforcement officer commits a Class A misdemeanor.

IC 35-44.1-4-2 "Emergency incident area"
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "emergency incident area" means the area surrounding a structure, vehicle, property, or area that is:
(1) defined by police or firefighters with flags, barricades, barrier tape, or other markers; or
(2) one hundred and fifty (150) feet in all directions from the perimeter of the emergency incident;
whichever is greater.

To counter that though, Indiana has statutes that bar any government agency (including federal) from outlawing, confiscating, or otherwise restricting firearms in a state of emergency or martial law etc. I realize that doesn't correct this situation, but just like many states we have a lot of old, "feel good" laws. Also, as a possible continuing risk, and possible criminal investigation, it really was best to remove people from the danger area until it was cleared as safe and there was no evidence that needed preserved. The local police did a good job of doing everything they could to get the residents back in their home. Unofficial word from some of the officers working security for the subdivision was that they even escorted some residents into homes "in the red zone" which they were not supposed to enter period, just to allow them to get some personal belongings/wallets etc. All in all its a law that the LEO don't necessarily always like, but its a law and when directed by superiors to evacuate the whole area they should probably do it.

I understand the frustration many probably had, but griping wasn't going to change anything. Thats why having a BOB and off-site cache are a good idea.

Originally Posted By us-kiwi:
This.

Our .gov has to just stop helping us.
I dont know how much more help I can take.
Just get out of the fucking way, we can all look after ourselves, given the chance.

IMHO YMMV



As a resident of IN, I feel that IN really is paving the way for many personal freedoms. We're consistently ranked near the top of free states and our statehouse is rapidly working towards solidifying many personal freedoms and limiting government as much as possible. However, it will take decades to corect all of the laws that have been passed in previous generations that infringe on rights.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 11:43:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 12:15:05 PM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By us-kiwi:

Originally Posted By Him:
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:

I however, still plan to BUG IN in most cases as leaving my home and supplies to live in the woods with a bunch of squirrels is just crazy.


Exactly right, but when the authorities knock and tell you that you have to leave, or your house isn't livable at all, then you don't really have any options and it's best to be prepared and say, "Hold on, let me grab a couple things really quick and I'll be right out".

BTW, even homes with minor damage had to evacuate their homes. They were told to leave. Unfortunately, discussion of this incident on Ingunowners has uncovered a state statute that makes it a Class A misdemeanor to refuse to leave in that situation so there is no option.


This kind of shit drives me straight up the wall!

Nobody should be subject to arrest for refusing to leave their home.

They should be told "We are leaving now. We will not come back until this is over, at which time we will pull your corpse out of the wreckage if we can find it. Have a nice day."

This.

Our .gov has to just stop helping us.
I dont know how much more help I can take.
Just get out of the fucking way, we can all look after ourselves, given the chance.

IMHO YMMV




No obviously 'we' can't.

The New Free Shit Majority sets the tone of the law.

We have to get used to it because it's only gonna get worse as they get worse.





Link Posted: 11/13/2012 12:03:14 PM EST
An explosion of that magnitude, the amount of NG must have been tremendous. The smell prior to the explosion must've been tremendous for the amount of gas.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 2:00:38 AM EST
Word is that the cause has been determined but is not being released... makes a few bells start to go off...

If it was as simple as just a gas leak etc they would be releasing it I would think. There must be more involved here such as arson, intentional gas leak, CIA drone strike or something even wackier...
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 4:36:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/14/2012 4:37:03 AM EST by Him]
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Word is that the cause has been determined but is not being released... makes a few bells start to go off...



Transparency uber alles!

Move along, citizen.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 7:44:56 AM EST
I'm starting to think it's better not to go to the door and argue about it.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 10:46:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im not a explosives expert but i cant fathom there being enough natural gas built up in a home to cause and explosion of that magnitude!



If the house was well sealed that amount of gas in the entire house going off at once would cause massive damage like you see.

Most people who have not seen what explosives can do under even the slightest pressure really cannot fathom the power they have.

Link Posted: 11/14/2012 2:39:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dace:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im not a explosives expert but i cant fathom there being enough natural gas built up in a home to cause and explosion of that magnitude!

If the house was well sealed that amount of gas in the entire house going off at once would cause massive damage like you see.
Most people who have not seen what explosives can do under even the slightest pressure really cannot fathom the power they have.

Yep. MOAB after all is a fuel-air bomb. Turn a large suburban home into a fuel air cloud at the right mixture and the explosion will be tremendous.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 3:13:27 PM EST

Um, @1:43 why does the director Homeland Security have to give the all clear ?????
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 4:35:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By wp6529:
If there was indeed a text message, furnace repairs, etc. there will be plenty of records to back it up. As for the divorce, short sale, etc. there is a good chance it's just coincidence. During heating season there is a gas explosion somewhere pretty much every week (search news reports to find them). Nat. gas may burn relatively clean and be relatively inexpensive, but it is not safe in any way. Even in a controlled industrial setting it is not safe, look up the news report on the nat gas fired power plant built in CT a few years ago that was leveled by the explosion while purging the NG feed pipeline before the plant ever got to produce any power. Look at the pictures how that building was blown apart.


I believe you are referring to the Klee Energy or something like that power plant right outside Hartford. On another note, A couple years before that was the Latex Foam factory. I saw that from the parking lot of my high school which was: the next town over, over a river, and easily 8 miles with the crow flying.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 6:08:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:

As a resident of IN, I feel that IN really is paving the way for many personal freedoms. We're consistently ranked near the top of free states and our statehouse is rapidly working towards solidifying many personal freedoms and limiting government as much as possible. However, it will take decades to corect all of the laws that have been passed in previous generations that infringe on rights.

Second this!

I do want to add, though, that the point I'm getting from this event (read about it in the news) isn't that some people were forced to leave and might not have had to, and gov't sucks.

All that may be true, but I think the real lesson for SF here is that unexpected shit happens, and sometimes you just gotta GTFO, and fast –– regardless if some agency is telling you to or not. With unexpected shit like the neighbor's house exploding, you just need to be prepared.


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 5:39:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By HomeSlice:
Second this!

I do want to add, though, that the point I'm getting from this event (read about it in the news) isn't that some people were forced to leave and might not have had to, and gov't sucks.

All that may be true, but I think the real lesson for SF here is that unexpected shit happens, and sometimes you just gotta GTFO, and fast –– regardless if some agency is telling you to or not. With unexpected shit like the neighbor's house exploding, you just need to be prepared.


This^^^ Unexpected things can happen in daily life that create a SHTF scenario. This only serves as a reminder that we aren't immune to those things and that we can always bug in. There are instances where it would greatly benefit you if you can take many of your important belongings with you if you're forced to leave your house very quickly.

BTW, Fox59 is now reporting this as a criminal homicide investigation...
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:11:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By HomeSlice:

With unexpected shit like the neighbor's house exploding, you just need to be prepared.



I am one of the distant neighbors of this explosion. I heard and felt it. The blast was close enough to rattle/shake/push the house, but not close enough to damage anything on my property. I was a sapper in the Army. I worked frequently with demolitions of all charge sizes and at varying ranges. I knew that instant that this was a very, very large blast.

The blast served to underscore two important points for me:

1. It was a chance to educate my teenage son –– we didn't know what happened. We just know there was a very large explosion somewhere in the relatively close proximity. I was armed, I was looking around. I wanted to know what happened. I didn't know at the time if we were in a safe environment or not. My son learned that he can't follow me around and continually ask stupid questions just because he is curious. Danger means danger until you know its not danger. He learned that with this event. Teach your family what to do. Teach them to tell the difference between curiosity and dangerous.

2. I learned that a non-TEOTWAWKI event can still be catastrophic. It makes me re-evaluate the redundancies I have built into my preps. Only 2 people were killed in the blast, but dozens of families were removed from their property, most for a lengthy time to come. Think through what you have put away locally and what you have put away off-site. What do you do if a portion is destroyed? Do you have enough in two places? More?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 2:22:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By unclejoe900:

Um, @1:43 why does the director Homeland Security have to give the all clear ?????


ummmm.... because it's not terrorism related
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:50:19 PM EST
They are saying its a homicide investigation now..
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