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Posted: 9/5/2009 1:37:51 PM EST
Pics a bonus.

I am thinking of refitting my DD M4 with a 18" fluted .750 DPMS SPR barrel and adding a trijicon ACOG, bipod and my magpul MIAD and PRS stock to make it a SPR. Currently I have 4 .223/5.56 ARs and want only one to two to do everything.

Just looking at examples out there to see what the best set up will be for me.

Also thinking about the new magpul stock MSR? something like that, I like it.

Basically this rifle would be my go to SHTF rifle and would be capable of short and medium range engagements with up to 75grain projectiles.

Link Posted: 9/5/2009 2:51:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2009 2:52:27 PM EST by Desert_AIP]
Step up to 6.8 SPC

Link Posted: 9/5/2009 4:28:23 PM EST
I'm planning on making one, similar to the above rifle in theory, but 5.56. Not sure I'd want to have it as a primary SHTF rifle unless I lived in the desert or somewhere that was wide open. I would think getting in and out of vehicles with one would be a major PITA, its bad enough with a M16A2. If you are going to run a 18" barrel and an ACOG, that would probably be more helpful as far as making a general purpose rifle.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 4:33:56 PM EST
5.56, 1/8 twist, 18" from CMMG with a PS90 flash hider on a 9mm upper (no forward assist). Sporting a Millet DMS-1 for the optic. Nice all around rifle.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 5:08:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2009 6:11:43 PM EST by Forest]
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 5:24:30 PM EST
Here is what I'm planning on doing:

Superior Barrels 18" Hard Blue barrel w/matched bolt
LMT Carrier
Ranier Arms or LaRue Tactical billet upper w/M4 ramps
LaRue 12" rail
lo pro gas block
TI billet lower w/stainless bushings
Bill springfield 4lb trigger job
UBR
MIAD
Gasbuster charging handle

Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with SPR-E

Option two would switch the upper reciever and rail for VLTOR rifle length VIS

It's going to take me awhile before it actually happens, but thats the current plans.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 6:24:33 PM EST
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 6:54:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 8:29:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:41:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..

I stock ammo and load my own (most of the latter as it's cheaper and the rounds can be tweaked for optimum accuracy).

I stock the heavy OTMs for the carbines, but they will never be able to do the things my 6.8 can, especially if I have to deal with looters in/around automobiles.

BTW Just how many rounds do you think you're going to need?


OK thanks for the comments. I'm not sure how many rounds I will need, but I wager on the law of probabilities, I think .223 will be easier come across than the 6.8. I have .308 and am thinking about ar10 platform too, but still don't see any advantages other than minor ballistics over the .223 with the 6.8. You lose capacity too - seems like the 20 round .308 might be better suited in that role.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:32:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 6:33:25 AM EST by Tekpc007]
does this count? not really my shtf one


this is the shtf one
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:41:41 AM EST
Have ADCO build you an upper, they do phenomenal work!

Throw a Leupold MR/T scope on it in a LaRue SPR mount, get the stock of your choice (only caveat for the PRS is that that sucker is heavy... Past that it really is a super comfortable stock), bipod of your choice. You're in business.

I would personally love to use 6.8 but the logistics of that for me are daunting... It's not just mags and ammo, I need spare parts plus reloading gear for that, too. I'm one of "those guys".
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:13:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..


Depends on what scenario you're talking about.

For SHTF, like Katrina, something that lasts for perhaps a month or two, you can certainly stock enough ammo.
For TEOTWAWKI, I have a 5.56 upper for that rifle, if the 6.8 runs low. Same with my M4gery.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:30:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Step up to 6.8 SPC

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w135/Desert_AIP/My_68SPR_00.jpg


DesertAP - what's the story on that scope? it looks like a pretty serious piece of hardware?

thx
O75
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:37:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tekpc007:
does this count? not really my shtf one
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/624/ar24bb.jpg

this is the shtf one
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5527/ar20hb.jpg


I like both these setups. The rifle I want to build willl look more like the bottom one with a PRS BS in place of the collapsible and an 18" barrel.

This is what I'm working with -


I'm thinking about using the DDm4 on the left as the base. it has the 12.0 FSP FF rail on it already. Taking the PRS from the bottom one or buying another one for it. Grip pod for bipod on the DD. 18" fluted DMPS DMR barrel, AAC QD FH for can that is coming (m4-2000). ACOG TA01 NSN for optic, and not sure yet on which BUIS combo to use. I have a set of Magpuls. May use them.






Larger non 56k friendly pic
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:40:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
Have ADCO build you an upper, they do phenomenal work!

Throw a Leupold MR/T scope on it in a LaRue SPR mount, get the stock of your choice (only caveat for the PRS is that that sucker is heavy... Past that it really is a super comfortable stock), bipod of your choice. You're in business.

I would personally love to use 6.8 but the logistics of that for me are daunting... It's not just mags and ammo, I need spare parts plus reloading gear for that, too. I'm one of "those guys".


Got anymore informatio on the ADCO uppers? I would like to have a nice setup, but I can simply replace the barrel for $200 on the DD upper and be in business except for the scope and grip pod.

I agree with you on logistics - I think the same way.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:42:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..


Depends on what scenario you're talking about.

For SHTF, like Katrina, something that lasts for perhaps a month or two, you can certainly stock enough ammo.
For TEOTWAWKI, I have a 5.56 upper for that rifle, if the 6.8 runs low. Same with my M4gery.


Point taken, however it still seems like too much extra coin in a platform that will only marginally outperform the heavy .223 loads. I went through katrina with my M4, never had to fire a shot from it thankfully. I can see some advantages to the round, but not enough in my book. x39 was very effective during katrina due to the close ranges. I think a x39 upper may be a better investment for ranges out to 200 meters/yrds.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:45:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:
Personally I would go full on Mk12 Mod 1 style if i was doing an 18" gun.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m281/cowboy7242001/IMG_9375.jpg

18" SPR on the left, 16" recce-ish on the right


Nice! I like the left one, mine will look similiar when done. How do you like your can?
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:30:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 4:31:44 PM EST by macman37]
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
Originally Posted By macman37:
Have ADCO build you an upper, they do phenomenal work!

Throw a Leupold MR/T scope on it in a LaRue SPR mount, get the stock of your choice (only caveat for the PRS is that that sucker is heavy... Past that it really is a super comfortable stock), bipod of your choice. You're in business.

I would personally love to use 6.8 but the logistics of that for me are daunting... It's not just mags and ammo, I need spare parts plus reloading gear for that, too. I'm one of "those guys".


Got anymore informatio on the ADCO uppers? I would like to have a nice setup, but I can simply replace the barrel for $200 on the DD upper and be in business except for the scope and grip pod.

I agree with you on logistics - I think the same way.



Click

I have experience with the Adco Custom MidLength SPR

And it is a tack driver. ADCO is a great company to do business with, too.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:09:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 6:03:31 PM EST by Kar15]
83rdrecon, i'm gonna quote and highlight a few things that jumped out at me as I am hearing two different things from your post, you tell me if i'm right...

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
Pics a bonus.

I am thinking of refitting my DD M4 with a 18" fluted .750 DPMS SPR barrel and adding a trijicon ACOG(4x like a ta31 i'm guessing), bipod and my magpul MIAD and PRS stock to make it a SPR. Currently I have 4 .223/5.56 ARs and want only one to two to do everything.

Just looking at examples out there to see what the best set up will be for me.

Also thinking about the new magpul stock MSR? something like that, I like it.

Basically this rifle would be my go to SHTF rifle and would be capable of short and medium range engagements with up to 75grain projectiles.



Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
... grip pod ...


sounds to me more like you want these charastics to be more along the lines of a SPR build, which would generally have a higher powered optic than a standard 4x acog(though you could have meant the 6x...

sounds to me more like you want these charastics to be more along the lines of recce build

could be either one/ sounds like you already know that 75gr. projectiles only depends on having a 1:7 or 1:8 barrel, and does not dictate your range as much as lighter projectiles

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:
Personally I would go full on Mk12 Mod 1 style if i was doing an 18" gun.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m281/cowboy7242001/IMG_9375.jpg

18" SPR on the left, 16" recce-ish on the right


Nice! I like the left one, mine will look similiar when done. How do you like your can?


my recce style build is my go to s.h.t.f. gun, but i also have an spr(+[ was planning on building an spr, but a really nice saber defence 20" barrel was found for too good a price to pass up])...

please remember these are old pics and all are works in progress, the recce build is now sporting a troy trx extreme rail([cartman]super sweet![/cartman], and i may upgrade the spr(+) to the same and the .308 as well if troy ends up making one that will fit. and i have removed the VFG and the bi-pod(i put myself as well as my gun on a diet, we were both way to damn heavy), i may end up wen i can affored to, buying a larue QD mount for 1 of the bipods to swap back and forth between any of these guns that may require it, if i can get all three wearing the troy trx extreme rails, and i may just leave the recce with out any bi-pod at all...

recce build, i have put shots on a 2'x 3' target @ 700(but rarely shoot past 2-300yds as terrain is not overly open/flat and dosen't provide a whole lot of long shots around here)

*Bushmaster Moduar Carbine, .223/5.56, 1:9 twist, heavy, fluted, free floated barrel
*Trijicon ACOG ta31f, killflash
*ARMS #19 QD mount chopper and modified by K.ustom Design(me), ARMS/Swan 40l rear flip up sight(O.D. m.b.u.s. on order)
*YMH free float quad rail(replaced by the troy trx extreme), gas block(groud down all tine to fit under the trx extreme), front flip-up sight(O.D. m.b.u.s. on order), bi-pod adapter(gone)
*Magpul enhanced triger gaurd, 30 round windowed pmag, ladder rail covers
*Larue "texas-spec" BCG
*Vltor emod stock
*Tango Down battle grip
*no name brand verticle foregrip(gone now)
*Viking Tactics light mount
*Coast Lensor led AAA light(i like to be able to find cheap and readily available batteries, it's actully quite rugged and bright)(replaced by an O.D. surefire G2 nitrolon)
*KNS genII anti-rotation pins
*K.ustom Design sling(made by me, IDF style, comprised of paracord and an O.D. U.S.G.I. general purpose strap)(either a s.l.a.p. plate from i kick hippies dot com or the magpul hotness and single point sling will be replacing this when the money becomes available)
*Rock Mount bi-pod(gone)

coming soon:
*A2 birdcage to YHM QD phantom suppressor muzzzle break
*K.ustom Designs OD paint job. possible coyote/tan vertical tigerstriping(to be decided). krylon, duracoat, alumahydeII(to be decided)

spr(+) for slightly longer shots, as i do like to target shoot at longer ranges when i get the oppertunity

You can call this one a Saber Master, a Saber Denence/Bushmaster bastard build, but but don't call it a Bush Defence(that phrase makes me think of a pair of clippers and a razor)...
*Bushmaster donnor upper, lower, and lpk
*Saber Defence 20", .223, 1:8 twist, heavy fluted, stainless steel, barrel.
*YHM Free Floated tube, bolt on gas block with integral flip up front sight
*Larue SPR mount, and "texas-spec" BCG
*Nikon 4.5x14 mil-dot side focus buckmaster
*Butler Creek flip up caps
*Ace skeleton stock
*Magpul winter trigger gaurd, 20 round pmag, ranger baseplate
*Tango Down battle grip
*Rock Mount bi-pod
*Barger Ordnance genI tactical latch
*KNS genII anit-rotation pins
*PK Firearms supplied various small parts(gas tube, A2 bird cage, crush washer, also wher ei bought the barrel)

coming soon:
*A2 birdcage to YHM QD phantom suppressor muzzzle break
*gasblock to YHM low profile short gas block
*K.ustom Designs OD sling(made by me, IDF style, comprised of paracord and an O.D. U.S.G.I. general purpose strap)
*K.ustom Designs OD paint job. possible coyote/tan vertical tigerstriping(to be decided). krylon, duracoat, alumahydeII(to be decided)

for those shots longer than that, hunting, and turning cover into concealment

*BAR-10 .308, flat top, with 20" barrel
*Larue SPR mount, and "texas-spec" BCG
*Nikon 4.5x14 mil-dot side focus buckmaster
*YHM free float tube, gas block, flip-up front sight, Izzy muzzle break/flash hider
*Ace skeleton stock
*Tango Down battle grip
*Magpul enhanced trigger gaurd
*Rock Mount bi-pod
*various Bushmaster and surplus metric and inch mags

coming soon:
*butler creek flip-up caps
*magpul m.b.u.s. sights
*KNS genII anti-rotation pins
*Izzy to YHM .308 QD phantom suppressor muzzzle break
*gasblock to YHM low profile short gas block
*K.ustom Designs OD sling(made by me, IDF style, comprised of paracord and an O.D. U.S.G.I. general purpose strap)
*K.ustom Designs OD paint job. possible coyote/tan vertical tigerstriping(to be decided). krylon, duracoat, alumahydeII(to be decided)
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:13:19 PM EST

why is this in the survival forum?

ar-jedi





Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:17:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
why is this in the survival forum?


s.h.t.f. "go-to rifle" question?..

K.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:27:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:

Point taken, however it still seems like too much extra coin in a platform that will only marginally outperform the heavy .223 loads.


I would not call the performance jump marginal, go check out the 6.8 thread in the variants forum.

As far as ammo, get a good stock, say 200 rounds, then brass and bullets to role your own. not that hard to get a SHTF supply
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:33:27 PM EST
IMO, 6.8 works better then 5.56.

It's performance doesn't justify a TO&E changeover.

Pick a caliber and stick to it. Many of you are collectors and shit and can spend 3k on a new system and 2 k to stock for it. Cheers, must be nice.

Most can sufficiently stock 2-3 calibers- rifle/handgun/shotty

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:06:08 PM EST
Definition of SHTF would apply here. In most SHTF situations I imagine one could probably find 5.56 and .308 "laying around". The same cannot be said of 6.8. I wouldn't want to include reloading equipment in my bug-out load. For SHTF, KISS is my guiding principle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:11:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By skippycoop:
Definition of SHTF would apply here. In most SHTF situations I imagine one could probably find 5.56 and .308 "laying around". The same cannot be said of 6.8. I wouldn't want to include reloading equipment in my bug-out load. For SHTF, KISS is my guiding principle.


If and a very big IF–– I could find 5.56 or 308 "laying around" I could probably find a firearm that could use that ammo "laying around" too.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:08:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Olive75:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Step up to 6.8 SPC

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w135/Desert_AIP/My_68SPR_00.jpg


DesertAP - what's the story on that scope? it looks like a pretty serious piece of hardware?

thx
O75


You caught me, borrowed from my AR-10 for the pic

It's the Burris 3-12x50mm XTR with illuminated 7.62 ballistic mildot reticle.
I got it as a factory blemished second from Midway, I can't for the life of me find a blem on it.
I wanted it in black, but it was $500 for a ~$750-850 scope so I'll take it in OD if I have to.
I love this scope on My AR-10. I really like the BDC reticle.

For this 6.8 SPRish rifle (in the pic), I'm going with the Burris 4.5-14x42mm Tac30 with non-illuminated ballistic mildot.

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:16:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 6:44:36 AM EST by Desert_AIP]
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..


Depends on what scenario you're talking about.

For SHTF, like Katrina, something that lasts for perhaps a month or two, you can certainly stock enough ammo.
For TEOTWAWKI, I have a 5.56 upper for that rifle, if the 6.8 runs low. Same with my M4gery.


Point taken, however it still seems like too much extra coin in a platform that will only marginally outperform the heavy .223 loads. I went through katrina with my M4, never had to fire a shot from it thankfully. I can see some advantages to the round, but not enough in my book. x39 was very effective during katrina due to the close ranges. I think a x39 upper may be a better investment for ranges out to 200 meters/yrds.


Part of this is, of course, a hobby.
So I like having something a little different. Like tinkering under the hood of a hotrod.
The parts aren't really any more expensive than a 5.56 except the magazines. Ammo of course.

I really enjoy shooting the 6.8 and there are a lot more variety of flexible and effective loads available for the 6.8 than the 5.56.
With handloads, even moreso.
85 TSX for hogs and barriers, 110 Prohunter for Deer and barriers, 90 TNT or 110 Vmax for CQB, 110 or 115 BTHP for longer range.
Don't want this to turn into 5.56 vs 6.8 , or other, thread (we know there's enough of those) but I would question the use of the term "marginally outperform".
I'm putting together a 7.62x39 as well...just "in case" I happen upon a large supply of ammo.

I do like this pic of 85 TSXs vs a steel plate
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:58:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..


Depends on what scenario you're talking about.

For SHTF, like Katrina, something that lasts for perhaps a month or two, you can certainly stock enough ammo.
For TEOTWAWKI, I have a 5.56 upper for that rifle, if the 6.8 runs low. Same with my M4gery.


Point taken, however it still seems like too much extra coin in a platform that will only marginally outperform the heavy .223 loads. I went through katrina with my M4, never had to fire a shot from it thankfully. I can see some advantages to the round, but not enough in my book. x39 was very effective during katrina due to the close ranges. I think a x39 upper may be a better investment for ranges out to 200 meters/yrds.


Part of this is, of course, a hobby.
So I like having somthing a little different. Like tinkering under the hood of a hotrod.
The parts aren't really any more expensive than a 5.56 except the magazines. Ammo of course.

I really enjoy shooting the 6.8 and there are a lot more variety of flexible and effective loads available for the 6.8 than the 5.56.
With handloads, even moreso.
85 TSX for hogs and barriers, 110 Prohunter for Deer and barriers, 90 TNT or 110 Vmax for CQB, 110 or 115 BTHP for longer range.
Don't want this to turn into 5.56 vs 6.8 , or other, thread (we know there's enough of those) but I would question the use of the term "marginally outperform".
I'm putting together a 7.62x39 as well...just "in case" I happen upon a large supply of ammo.

I do like this pic of 85 TSXs vs a steel plate
http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/dkred5854/DSCF3027.jpg


Good information. I was referring more along the lines of soft targets, but I get your point. Nice setup.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:51:17 AM EST
An active contributor to this forum said he had a happy result by cutting an A2 barrel down to 17 inches. I think he had this done long before the SPR was in existence. I'll let that poster correct my memory if he wants to mention it.

I kind of like the idea of an ultralight kiss rece/spr ish AR

16.5 to 18 inch barrel
rifle gas system (this will depend on caliber choice)
light to ultralight barrel contour
carbon or fiberglass free float forearm
flat top upper
optical sight (lots of choices here)

I'd rerally like to get undeR 6 pounds for the rifle
add 1 pound for ammo
and add for the optic.

this is an idea in progress and the project will wait for funds.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 8:51:50 AM EST
My SPR is my go to SHTF weapon. Bing that this weapon needs to be able to be used in a CQB role as well as long range shots, I did do a few things different then the Mil SPR's.
First I went with a 16" mid-length barrel in 5.56.
Second, I had a nice scope on it, but I sold it and went with a CQT. The CQT is a compromise optic, the scope was great for long range shots but sucked at CQB shooting with out changing out optics, and for SHTF I felt that I wanted an optic that was better suited for closer ranges. I can also get dinner plate shots out to 600m, and that's about the furthest that I would want to push the 5.56.
As for ammo, I use the MK 262 round.
.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 9:18:29 AM EST

Thanks!


Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By Olive75:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Step up to 6.8 SPC

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w135/Desert_AIP/My_68SPR_00.jpg


DesertAP - what's the story on that scope? it looks like a pretty serious piece of hardware?

thx
O75


You caught me, borrowed from my AR-10 for the pic

It's the Burris 3-12x50mm XTR with illuminated 7.62 ballistic mildot reticle.
I got it as a factory blemished second from Midway, I can't for the life of me find a blem on it.
I wanted it in black, but it was $500 for a ~$750-850 scope so I'll take it in OD if I have to.
I love this scope on My AR-10. I really like the BDC reticle.

For this 6.8 SPRish rifle (in the pic), I'm going with the Burris 4.5-14x42mm Tac30 with non-illuminated ballistic mildot.



Link Posted: 9/7/2009 3:21:37 PM EST
Isn't the definition of an SPR, a midlength upper with an 18" barrel...?
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 3:30:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
Isn't the definition of an SPR, a midlength upper with an 18" barrel...?


the .mil SPR was a rifle length gas system
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 4:59:37 PM EST
I don't know what my 16" SS Noveske Recon with VIS is called round here (Recce, SPR,...), but I call it a super accurate SHTF ready AR type carbine. I added a Geissele HiSpeed DMR trigger and a TA31A ACOG.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:08:29 PM EST
Some VERY nice looking rifles on this thread.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:53:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Originally Posted By macman37:
Isn't the definition of an SPR, a midlength upper with an 18" barrel...?


the .mil SPR was a rifle length gas system


My bad... I was only hoping to help people focus on what an SPR is... Lots of 16" and 20" barrels here, which by definition, isn't a SPR. From what I've read the .mil specifically wanted something with better terminal effects than 14.5" and 16" barrels, but more compact than the full size 20" barrel.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:37:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By matt33:
I don't know what my 16" SS Noveske Recon with VIS is called round here (Recce, SPR,...), but I call it a super accurate SHTF ready AR type carbine. I added a Geissele HiSpeed DMR trigger and a TA31A ACOG.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/mccullm6/IMG_0167.jpg


i think this much more closely falls under the description of a "recce" rifle... just as an fiy if you care... very nice gun!..

K.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:48:45 PM EST





LaRue Stealth lower
Rock River parts kit
Wolff spring kit
Magpul MIAD
Geissele DMR trigger
Magpul UBR butt stock
Enidine hydraulic buffer + Wolff buffer spring
LaRue Stealth billet upper w.M4 feed ramps
Young National Match M16 bolt carrier
LMT enhanced bolt
Badger Gen.2 tactical latch on CMT charge handle
Denny's Guns 18" Krieger 1/7.7 stainless SPR barrel mid-gas
LaRue low profile gas block
LaRue SPR scope mount
Nightforce NXS 1-4x24 scope with FC reticle
Troy front and rear BUIS's
Vickers padded sling
GG&G front sling mount
DD HD QD swivels
Surefire FH556-212A flash hider
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:53:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 10:02:55 AM EST by Kar15]
definition of SPR and Recce specifications(via wikipedia, so i'm claiming no responsibility for accuracy of the content), if anyone cares...

SPR(Special Purpose Rifle) Specifications

Upper Receiver: The majority of the SPR upper receivers were initially supplied by Colt, with others being produced by Colt Canada (then Diemaco). Colt had been outsourcing parts of its production to Diemaco for several years, then purchased Diemaco in February 2005. It is unclear whether the upper receivers for the later SPRs came solely from ArmaLite, or were a mix of receivers from ArmaLite and Colt/Diemaco. All of these upper receivers are flat-topped, but have been seen with either the old-style teardrop forward assist or the newer round style.

Lower Receiver: When the SPR program was still just an upper receiver assembly (and not a complete rifle), Crane assembled all of its prototypes using either M16A1 or M4A1 lower receivers. It is unknown whether this pattern continued as the rifle evolved. There is also some issue about whether, when the Navy type-classified the weapon, Precision Reflex Incorporated (PRI) began assembling the rifles themselves. While a number of trigger options were tried in the end, the Knight's Armament Company (KAC) 2-stage trigger was finally decided upon as the standard.

Barrel: An 18-inch (457 mm) threaded-muzzle match-grade free floating stainless steel heavy barrel with a 1:7 (178 mm) rifling twist ratio is standard for the SPR. The barrels are manufactured by Douglas Barrels with a special contour to maximize accuracy and to minimize weight. An OPS Inc. muzzle brake and collar (to align the OPS Inc. 12th Model Suppressor) is installed with the barrel. These barrels were designed to take advantage of the new Mk 262 cartridge, which uses a 77-grain (5 g) bullet.

Buttstock: SPRs have been seen with M16A1 or M16A2 fixed buttstocks, telescoping M4 buttstocks, and the Crane Enhanced telescoping buttstock. The rifles are compatible with any type of stock system developed for the M16.

Handguards: In all cases a free-floating forearm is used, which does not touch the barrel directly. This increases the accuracy of the weapon by removing vibration and pressure exerted on the barrel by the rest of the gun. The first SPRs used PRI Gen I or Gen II carbon-fiber free-float tubes. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 all use the Knights Armament Company M4 Match Free-Floating

Rail Adapter System. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses PRI Gen III free-float tubes. The Gen I and Gen II Freefloat Forearms are combined with the Atlantic Research Marketing Systems #38 SPR MOD Sleeve, while the Gen III Freefloat Forearm, due to its it larger barrel nut, only works with the ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3.

Sights: The original SPR used an early PRI flip-up front sight with an elevation dial, which has since been discontinued. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses the current PRI flip-up front sight. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC rail foreend flip-up front sight. The SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use the ARMS #40 flip up rear sight. The rest of the models use the KAC 600 meter flip up rear.

Optics: Due to the relative modularity of the system, optics (as well as almost everything else) can be mounted according to the operator's wishes. However, SPRs are most often seen with a 3.5–10×40 mm Leupold LR M3 (SPR/A), a 2.5–9×36 mm TS-30 (SPR/B), or a 3–9×36 mm TS-30 A2 (Mk 12 Mod 0/1) Mid Range/Tactical Illuminated Reticle Dayscope. Night vision devices can also be attached. These scopes usually come with flip open dust covers and a honeycomb anti-glare anti-reflection device. Given Nightforce Optics' NAVSPECWAR contract, it is believed that many NAVSPECWAR issued SPRs will use the Nightforce 2.5-10x24 NXS scope.[3]

Mounts: A long accessory rail, called a SWAN Sleeve (ARMS SPR MOD or ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3), manufactured by ARMS, is installed, running the length of the rifle. The SPR/A and SPR/B both used the KAC M4 Match FF RAS. Two ARMS #22 Throwlever 30 mm steel rings are used to mount the dayscope. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use ARMS #22 high rings, while due to the increased height from the SWAN Sleeve, the SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use ARMS #22 medium rings. An under-the-handguard ARMS #32 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Harris bipod (the ARMS #42 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Versa-Pod); this features a quick release action.

Bipod: Originally Versa-Pods (a cheaper Chinese-made copy of the relatively expensive Parker-Hale swivel bipod) were used, but were taken off the system after the initial SPR. Currently, a Harris swivel model bipod is typically used with the SPR, and is sometimes seen with a KMW Pod-Loc tension adjustment device. As mentioned above, the bipod is mounted via a ARMS #32 throwlever device attached to the bottom rail of the rifle's forearm. The ARMS mount is used on both the Mod 0 and Mod 1.
Suppressor: The OPS Inc. 12th Model SPR Muzzle Brake Suppressor threads directly onto the OPS Inc. muzzle brake and uses the collar to stay centered.

Ammunition: The SPR is not used to fire standard issue 5.56mm M855 or M193 ball or M856 tracer ammunition. Due to the limits in terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy of the 62-grain (4 g) M855 ball, the Mk 262 Open Tip Match (OTM) round was developed as a more accurate round for the SPR, and manufactured by Black Hills Ammunition. The first production batches were designated Mk 262 Mod 0 and used a Sierra Bullets MatchKing 77-grain (5 g) Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet without a cannelure (crimping groove). Black Hills then approached the Nosler bullet manufacturing company, who made a similar 77 gr (5.0 g) OTM bullet, and Nosler agreed to supply cannelured bullets to Black Hills. The newer load was designated Mk 262 Mod 1. Recently, Sierra added a minimal crimp to its bullet, and this has since replaced the Nosler bullet in the current versions of Mk 262 Mod 1.

Recce(Reconnaissance rifle, pronounced "wreck-key" rhymes with trekkie) Specifications

These weapons were initially built in-house with the only specifications being the ability to shoot any 5.56 x 45 mm cartridge in inventory (at the time this included the first iterations of the 77-grain (5 g) Mk 262 Mod 0 cartridge), and that the weapon have a barrel 16 inches (406 mm) in length.

The barrel blanks are made by Lilja Precision and then chambered by Compass Lake. They have a 1:8 in (203 mm) twist and are stainless steel. They have a unique heavy barrel profile, starting with 0.980 in (25 mm) in diameter for the first 2.60 in (66 mm) of length, then narrowing down to 0.850 (22 mm) in diameter, 0.750 in (19 mm) in diameter underneath the front sight block, and 0.725 in (18 mm) in diameter to the muzzle. The barrels have the Knight's Armament Company - KAC QD (Quick Detach) flash hider, allowing the mounting of KAC's QD sound suppressor. A Mid-length gas system is used. These barrels were mated to flat top upper receivers, and retained the fixed front sight/gas block assembly, which would seem to imply that the original iterations were probably just rebarreled M4/A1 type carbines in SEAL inventory.

Beyond this, exact specifications vary. Since they were built in house, they seem to have been accessorized to personal preferences, with fixed (A1 and A2 styles) and retractable butt-stocks. (Original 4-point and improved 6-point Colt stocks, and the Crane/SOCOM/LMT stock are all in use.) Recon rifles built by Crane are reportedly all fitted with a free-float handguard system, the most popular being the Knight's Armament Co. M4 Match RAS and the LaRue free-float handguards in the longer lengths (which protect the barrel and provide more area to mount tactical accessories). Some operators reportedly use various back-up iron sights (BUISs) by Knight's, ARMS Inc, and Troy Industries, while others do not. The range of optics used on Recon rifles is wide, with various models by Trijicon (like ACOG TA01, TA31F), Leupold (TS-30A1, TS-30A2), and NightForce in use.

Built in-house by U.S. Navy SEAL Team armorers, and later by the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane Division (often referred to as NSWC-Crane or "Crane"), the SEAL Recon Rifle was developed to provide SEAL snipers with a portable, lightweight system with greater lethality than a standard M4 carbine. The SEAL Recon Rifle is sometimes referred to as the "Recce Rifle".

When production of this rifle was turned over to NSWC-Crane, U.S. Army funding and concepts were apparently incorporated into the program (there is some confusion as to the exact events). The SEAL Teams were apparently disappointed with the performance of the resulting Mk 12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR), and convinced the program managers at Crane to return to the original specifications. Production of "Recon Rifles" on the original pattern is progressing now according to several sources.

Due to the secretive nature of the end-users, first-hand information and data regarding the Recon rifles seems to be quite rare. How much these specifications have changed with regards to Crane's "production" weapons is unknown.

K.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:37:39 PM EST
hey wayne, If you want an SPR build go 6.5 grendal. that is what it was made for. GREAT ballistics in a 5.56 size package. ammo is a little harder to find. but then again this isn't a battle rifle. 500rds should be PLENTY. now I understand the need/want of a 5.56 SPR rifle so just make sure it has a 1:7 twist rate so you can punch out the heavier rounds. plus..... 2 inches of barrel isn't going to give you that much of a difference in velocity. My personal SPR rifle is a 16' Noveske barrel with 1:& twist, medium contour, DD light rail, A2 stock, RRA 2 stage trigger, MIAD pistol grip. slap a Harris bipod, trijicon Accupoint (both in Larue mounts) and a trijicon RMR for close work and you've got a dang good rifle.
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 7:57:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 9:01:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:54:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Originally Posted By macman37:
Isn't the definition of an SPR, a midlength upper with an 18" barrel...?


the .mil SPR was a rifle length gas system


Not to go too far OT, but links to specs, ideas, etc in the other forums?

Thanks,
-Slice
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:02:40 PM EST
Thanks all for the imput. I think it will help me build up what is best for me and I know the information will help others. This is what this place is all about.
Link Posted: 9/10/2009 1:40:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:


Good information. I was referring more along the lines of soft targets, but I get your point. Nice setup.

Even on soft targets the 6.8 far outperforms the 5.56, AND if your soft target happens to be behind covers... Well as you can see above stuff that can stop 5.56 and even 7.62x39 does bother the 6.8 (gotta love that 85gr TSX load ).


Then why not step up to a .308 SPR?

Link Posted: 9/10/2009 1:52:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By JLShooter:
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:


Good information. I was referring more along the lines of soft targets, but I get your point. Nice setup.

Even on soft targets the 6.8 far outperforms the 5.56, AND if your soft target happens to be behind covers... Well as you can see above stuff that can stop 5.56 and even 7.62x39 does bother the 6.8 (gotta love that 85gr TSX load ).


Then why not step up to a .308 SPR?



There is still a lot of drama with the 308 ARs. The 308 ARs are not standardized. There are some issues with availability and reliability. The 308 ARs do not fit in the same size and weight class as the smaller AR.

Not bashing the 308 ARs, but there are times and places where 308 is not the answer.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 4:22:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 4:25:56 PM EST by boltcatch]
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
You guys with 6.8, are you stocking a lifetime amount of ammo or what? Just curious, while I see the advantage of the caliber, I also see the disadvantage from a survival POV. Another caliber to stock... No thanks. I'll stick with .223/5.56 and the heavy loads with a 1/7 or 1/8.

You do have very nice setups though..

I stock ammo and load my own (most of the latter as it's cheaper and the rounds can be tweaked for optimum accuracy).

I stock the heavy OTMs for the carbines, but they will never be able to do the things my 6.8 can, especially if I have to deal with looters in/around automobiles.

BTW Just how many rounds do you think you're going to need?


Trophy Bonded Bear Claw projectiles Since you roll your own...

I fully intend to put together an SPR later as funds permit. When you live someplace that's wide open and flat, you quickly see why you'd want one.

In the meantime I have a 16" middy with an OPS can that pretty much is the bastard offspring of an SPR and a recce carbine. I also roll my own, and it's good to go either with magnified glass or an aimpoint. I have a log with POI for common ammo types an all my own loads.

...

I think that the most important thing the SPR would represent among those like us is not so much the hardware or what it can do, but the expected work put into things like learning to work your mildot optic, range estimation, weapon logs, knowing your dopes, etc., that are supposed to go along with running a precision rifle. It doesn't matter how cool your SPR is if the SHTF comes and you can't even get a COM hit on someone at 500 yards with it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 5:06:35 PM EST
The age old dilemma, when the SHTF, which rifle do I grab???

Link Posted: 9/13/2009 5:16:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 5:19:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By boltcatch:

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw projectiles Since you roll your own...


Bah. Why shoot a 55gr .224 projectile when you need penetration when you can opt for a 130gr .277 projectile with far more energy...


I am using 75 grain loads. sure the 130s hit harder, but the 75s are good enough for soft targets at range in my opinion.
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