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Posted: 7/24/2013 10:55:16 PM EST
Rifle pistol combos have been used as a survival tools for a long time and most major calibers in wheel guns can also be bought for a rifle. I'm not knocking out 9mm, 40S&W of any other handgun caliber I'm looking to talk about is a caliber that can do double duty one that can take down a deer size game and anything two legged!

I'd like to see is someone make a rifle that can shoot 10mm or like rounds does not have to be semi auto. Anyway I'm just sticking with common wheel gun calibers 38spl/357mag, 44spl/44mag and 460/454/45LC families. Now we all are into having what we need when we need it so for the sake of this post and because in some areas some calibers are more common then others we are going to say you have 5K loaded ammo 10K of brass, primers, lead and powder to add up to 15K worth of loaded ammo. That's it no more no find any you just get a 15K ammo this is so it takes out the problem of areas that you can find some ammo but not others. Before I forget that is 15K for all ammo be it 44spl/44mag you can split the ammo 50/50 but you only get 15K.

Now I'd like to know what caliber would you pick and why? I ask because I'm not looking or wanting to spend my money and time on a tool that might be more common but can't get the job done as well as another tool that is less common! As for hunting game your deer/boar is going to be out from 100 to 200 yards no scope all iron sights both handgun and wheel gun. We all know we want to take down our game with one shot and we all know that deer have been shot with large caliber rifles and still needed another shot to put them down. So take from that what you will.

So please play this game the rules have been set now tell everyone here what you feel the BEST CALIBER would be. No use of one is more common then the other will be used! Hand loads or factory is what you have to deal with! Have fun and lets keep it fun! Have the right to add rules to any other major issues that others might bring up.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 11:00:33 PM EST
I'll play.

44 Mag.

Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 11:05:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dogsplat:
I'll play.

44 Mag.

Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much.
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Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle!
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 11:11:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 11:12:07 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]
I'm not so certain I totally understand what you're asking. If it's just the caliber, I'd pick the .44 mag.

If it's my selection of firearms for this caliber, I'd have my S&W 29-2 with a 4" barrel and either a Marlin or Winchester lever gun. The lever is accurate enough to do the job out to a considerable distance in .44 mag, light and handy enough to not be a bother to tote around and fast enough to make quick work in a SD situation.

10k rounds for reloading is almost laughable. That's 2 bricks of primers and maybe 7-10# of powder. It's not hard to squirrel that much away. (Provided you have the brass) As for the projectiles, I'd use my 240gr Keith mold and roll my own out of scavenged wheel weights. Should be plenty of them parked idle somewhere...

If it weren't for casting my own bullets- I don't think I'd have retained any of my wheelguns to date.

Sly
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 11:41:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By tayous1:


Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle!
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Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By dogsplat:
I'll play.

44 Mag.

Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much.


Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle!

Unified round is best round.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 12:24:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:
I'm not so certain I totally understand what you're asking. If it's just the caliber, I'd pick the .44 mag.

If it's my selection of firearms for this caliber, I'd have my S&W 29-2 with a 4" barrel and either a Marlin or Winchester lever gun. The lever is accurate enough to do the job out to a considerable distance in .44 mag, light and handy enough to not be a bother to tote around and fast enough to make quick work in a SD situation.

10k rounds for reloading is almost laughable. That's 2 bricks of primers and maybe 7-10# of powder. It's not hard to squirrel that much away. (Provided you have the brass) As for the projectiles, I'd use my 240gr Keith mold and roll my own out of scavenged wheel weights. Should be plenty of them parked idle somewhere...

If it weren't for casting my own bullets- I don't think I'd have retained any of my wheelguns to date.

Sly
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OK why pick 44 mag ? Can not say because I have it we are looking at what caliber would be best! 10K is nothing I know but in SHTF or survival are you really going to need! Like I said we are looking at CALIBER and what it can do!
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 1:46:35 AM EST
Hands down the .44 mag. best factory available loadings for anything from mouse to moose and anything in between.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 1:49:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ariesfromhell:
Hands down the .44 mag. best factory available loadings for anything from mouse to moose and anything in between.
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everything from bird/snake shotshells to 340 gr +P+ Pure win for versatility. :)
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 3:31:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2013 3:34:21 AM EST by Reorx]
OBTW - Olympic Arms makes pistol caliber carbines based on an AR15 platform in 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm, 45ACP, etc...

http://www.olyarms.com/

...just sayin...

Having said that... I have a 357 mag S&W pistol and Marlin lever action rifle that I am very fond of... 357 is lighter, faster (flatter shooting), and capable if the shooter is up to the task...
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 4:25:20 AM EST
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 6:04:32 AM EST
My choice is easy, I already have it. Pistol would be my Smith 686+ w/ 4in barrel and a Rossi 92 w/ 16in barrel. Both are in .357 magnum. Rounds would be 158gr lswchp. I like the .357 round, it can handle deer out to 100yards and is just a great overall round. The .38spc lswchp +p round is nothing to sneeze at either. I also like the fact that I dont have to worry about magazines for either weapon.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 6:31:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tayous1:

OK why pick 44 mag ? Can not say because I have it we are looking at what caliber would be best! 10K is nothing I know but in SHTF or survival are you really going to need! Like I said we are looking at CALIBER and what it can do!
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I didn't want to say it, but with no alternative I must now say; FPNI.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 6:39:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mac1020:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.
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This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state...
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 8:01:42 AM EST
I'll throw in a comment on the hand loading side of the problem...if you plan on using something like a "tong tool" to reload with, fired full house load .44mag brass will be considerably more difficult to resize than .357mag....carbide sizing dies and a compound single stage press would be my suggestion (RCBS Rock Chucker) ...don't forget that there are 200grain .357 bullets out there (35 caliber rifle)...I once reloaded a piece of Norma .357 mag brass 75 times before I retired it...

that being said, a .44 has a lot of utility....either caliber it would be a coil spring Ruger DA revolver, and a Marlin lever gun.... though I never did get to shoot an IMI Timberwolf...
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 8:08:37 AM EST
500SW- you know gotta be able to kills cars as well in the SHTF, You can also load with 50bmg tips for extra knock down
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 8:22:21 AM EST
can I just go to my safe and pick?

it would be 7.62x25

I have the AR upper and a few Yugo Tokarevs.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 8:33:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mac1020:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.
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5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues.

My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 8:41:17 AM EST
I've got carbines and pistols in .357 and 9mm. Either would work. 9mm has the advantage of holding more in both the carbine and pistol applications.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 9:14:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
500SW- you know gotta be able to kills cars as well in the SHTF, You can also load with 50bmg tips for extra knock down
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-Emt1581
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 9:16:27 AM EST
I have a buddy with a 45-70 rifle and revolver as a combo. economical? no! but damn those are some fun guns. I am pretty sure you can take down most things you point them at although there might not be much left of smaller game. His magnum research revolver is one sweet rig .
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 9:21:17 AM EST
I'd either go with a 9mm in an AR platform or the Sub2000 Glock platform...AR has exponentially more accessories and customization that would take place, no recoil, and a very versatile caliber for everything except large/dangerous game. 33rd mags, reliability, fast follow-ups, easy to suppress...can you tell I'm a serious fan of the 9mm??

Or...

.357 mag carbine of some sort.

On the weaker end but does have enough power to take out almost anything, minimal recoil in a shoulder fired weapon, can be used in a revolver for a sidearm and shot by pretty much anyone (so long as it's not a snubbie!). Try that with a .44mag! Some shooters will be scared away for good!

But it is just personal preference here.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 10:37:39 AM EST
.45 Colt, I have lots of ammo, reloading supplies, it is an easy round to reload. With a Winchester Trapper, Rossi Ranch Hand, S&W 25-5 and Colt SAA....I am covered.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 10:50:57 AM EST
I think this post is a bit silly. No offense, but pistol calibers make poor rifle calibers. Rifle calibers make poor pistol calibers.

On this thread, my answer would be 6.8SPC. Not that I could ever CCW one, but you have to suspend disbelief a bit in this scenario anyway.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 11:00:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2013 11:51:11 AM EST by Quarterbore]
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 11:37:23 AM EST
Winchester 94 in 44 mag
SMith 629 5" 44 mag

snake shot up to bear or moose
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 12:29:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 1:12:59 PM EST
I have actually done what you are talking about sinceIi was a young "kid"
My first centerefire rifle was a Ruger 44 Mag. The year I graduated form high school I got my first 44 Mag handgun.
I found them to be a perfect pair, and over the years I have always had a 44 Mag Rifle and a 44 Mag revolver.
I have killed quite a few deer, some pigs, turkeys, and a lot of small game with them. I have also used the 44 CCI/Speer shotshells in the revolver to kill a lot of small game and quite a few snakes.

So in my 15K of rounds I would want a 1000 rounds of the shotshells. Most of the rest of the ammo could be the standard 240gr 44 Mag load, they have killed deer and pigs perfectly.

I would want a few hard cast 300 gr loads just in case I went into BIG bear country, but actually I could get by with some of my hard cast Keith 240gr SWC bullets no problem.
Some lighter HP loads for intown defense would be a good idea as well, so maybe a thousand of the Speer 200gr Short Barreled load.

My current 44 Mag rifle is a peep sighted Winchester Mod 94 Trapper, with a 16" barrel.

It is very short handy and light weight. I use it on a lot of trips for a vehicle, utility, backup hunting rifle, paired with a 44 Mag revolver, of course.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 2:02:00 PM EST
The thing about the magnum calibers is they gain the most from longer barrels, so either 357 or 44 mag, assuming you'll be casting and reloading yourself.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 3:56:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Plattekill:


This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state...
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Originally Posted By Plattekill:
Originally Posted By mac1020:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.


This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state...


This is my vote. Hands down.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 4:37:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gasdoc09:

5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues.

My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it.
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Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Originally Posted By mac1020:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.

5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues.

My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it.


The only reason I chose these is because its survival, I would need the ability to not only take down game but defend myself, and Ill take a 50 round semi auto rifle over a lever gun any day. Now these are not my SHTF guns, but Im not limiting myself to only one caliber. Funny thing is I sold my PS90 a few years ago.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 6:12:06 PM EST
can you do a sub2000 and a Glock in the same caliber?

the only problem I have with pistol caliber carbines/ rifles is that, and this is just my opinion, if you're going to carry a rifle ; why not carry it in a rifle caliber?

call me a pansy, but I don't particularly enjoy shooting magnum handguns.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 6:57:29 PM EST
Sub2000 in 9mm firing +p+ 124 gr hollowpoints.

And a fishing rod, and lots of snares to actually gather food. In SHTF I'm not going to waste time hunting deer or boar. I'll be hunkering home - and if I wander it'll be to check the traps and snares, check the fishing line, and then back...or better yet, give that job to the boys.

I've a buddy that's partial to the .44 though and if I had it, that'd be my druthers.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 7:06:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2013 7:08:58 PM EST by fisterkev]
I would like to cheat. I'll keep my BCM EAG and pick up a PLR-16 for my, uh, "pistol". I hate Keltecs but if it means I get to keep my favorite gun then I'll do it.

Real answer I'd probably go with 9mm. Lots of 9mm options out there for rifles and the ammo is relatively cheap and plentiful. Or at least, it was...
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 7:37:09 PM EST
I have a Ruger GP-100 and Ruger M77 both in .357.

.357 out of a carbine/ rifle is a nice combo to 150yds or more. Check out the Ruger Centerfire section in the Armory, there is a nice review with some incredible groups fired from the M77/357.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 7:45:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 4:34:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2013 4:39:36 PM EST by -Omega-1]
I started with a Savage 24 .357/20. I just added a Wiley Clapp GP100 and have a 77/357 on layaway at Bud's. I also have a Beretta 92fs and CX4 Storm combo. I am also contemplating adding a Blackhawk .357/9mm to round things out.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 7:29:41 PM EST
.44 mag.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 7:50:48 AM EST
My pistol/rifle combo is a Star Super and a Destroyer cerbine in 9mm Largo. Try to beat that!
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 10:56:35 AM EST
Does a Full size ak and draco pistol count?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 11:25:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 11:26:24 AM EST by garred8787]
been thinking of going this route as well and may do it. what i'd like is a 16" carbine (like a 92 puma) in 454 casull with a ruger super redhawk also in 454 4" barrel. i'd take all 15k brass in 454 casull, 300gr wfn bullet(and mold ) then i'd want a keg of lil gun/h110/w296(any of those) then another in say unique/true blue/trail boss. then i'll load them to what I feel is appropriate. probably 2/3's being 45colt level of power then i'd use the crimp grove's to determine which load is which(the 300gr wfn I'm thinking of has 2 crimp grooves)

the "realisitc" approach and what I may end up doing. is a ruger gp100 3" in 357 (3" sp101 a close second) to compliment my 92 puma in 357. again all 357 brass with 175gr wfn bullets also with two of the above powders.

the modern approach. a ddles lower with 10mm upper (probably built by ron williams) and a glock 29 maybe a 20. but being a rifle/pistol combo leaning more towards the 29. this option is far beyond my fincial reach at this time.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 11:36:57 AM EST
.44 S&W mountain gun and a Marlin .444 lever action.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 11:47:02 AM EST
Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver in 357. Both can also use 38 I needed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 11:56:32 AM EST
I've played with this idea. I've found that in reality its not nearly as "handy' as one might think.

The problems are twofold.

1) Any bullet that works well at pistol speeds usually does not work well at carbine speeds. And vice versa. The typical JHP pistol bullet that opens reliably at 4" barrel velocities will dramatically overexpand at 20" carbine speeds. Any bullet hard enough to hold together well at carbine speeds does not open at pistol speeds. The only combo bullet that sort of works in both is a hardcast semiwadcutter ( that has additional problems of leading in the barrel).

2) The usual "I can use 38's and 357's" or similar 44 spec and 44 mags argument doesn't work well. Carbines sighted for mag loads at 25 yards often see DRAMATIC point of impact changes with various 'specials'. I've seen 6 to 8" poi changes at 25 yards. More at 50 and 100

I simply cannot get the pistol/carbine in same caliber thing to work well.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 3:52:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 10:27:58 PM EST
Lee makes a reloading tool/kit for .357, .44, and .45 LC for less than $40. The kit is about the size of a box of stick matches....might help you make a decision for a SHTF scenario.

Check it out at Lee Precision.
Link Posted: 7/28/2013 2:26:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Sub2000 in 9mm firing +p+ 124 gr hollowpoints.

And a fishing rod, and lots of snares to actually gather food. In SHTF I'm not going to waste time hunting deer or boar. I'll be hunkering home - and if I wander it'll be to check the traps and snares, check the fishing line, and then back...or better yet, give that job to the boys.

I've a buddy that's partial to the .44 though and if I had it, that'd be my druthers.
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I think this is the best role for combinations; hence the term "trapper's guns". The slim profile of a 16" barrel lever gun would be handy in heavy brush or maneuvering through swampy areas. Larger game opportunities would most likely be short range, but most likely you combo would be to put larger snared game out of misery.

I know this is more of simple mental masturbation, but it does force you to assess you own situations and requirements. Not that a pistol/carbine combo would be my first choice, but my Ruger GP100 and Winchester 94 Trapper in .357 would be ideal choices for my immediate area...again, to check traps, snares, trot lines and even active fishing or frog gigging.



For more small-town, urban areas, I would opt for my Glock 19/17 and SUB 2000K in 9mm. I may have to change the pistol to a CZ P01 or CZ85 as the S2K takes Sig or CZ magazines and not Glock. Either way, a few cases of Hirtenberger 9mm +P+ is stout, hot and very accurate out to 100-150 yards.



As I see my M1 Carbine, that would be an interesting match with a Blackhawk SA revolver in .30 carbine as well. Performance would be similar to .357 and wouldn't give as many bullet options, but would still be a decent combo for most situations outside of a zombie attack...

ROCK6
Link Posted: 7/28/2013 2:37:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2013 2:38:04 AM EST by sywagon]
If the rules are stating commonness of calibers are not factors, I'd take .41 mag.. .44 will barely out do it on muzzle energy only with a FULL house load. It shoots flatter and usually carries more energy terminally. The lever rifles are hard to find though.

Yes, I do shoot and load both .44 and .41 - I have nothing but love for .44 too.
Link Posted: 7/28/2013 3:09:03 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By frozenny:
I've played with this idea. I've found that in reality its not nearly as "handy' as one might think.

The problems are twofold.

1) Any bullet that works well at pistol speeds usually does not work well at carbine speeds. And vice versa. The typical JHP pistol bullet that opens reliably at 4" barrel velocities will dramatically overexpand at 20" carbine speeds. Any bullet hard enough to hold together well at carbine speeds does not open at pistol speeds. The only combo bullet that sort of works in both is a hardcast semiwadcutter ( that has additional problems of leading in the barrel).

2) The usual "I can use 38's and 357's" or similar 44 spec and 44 mags argument doesn't work well. Carbines sighted for mag loads at 25 yards often see DRAMATIC point of impact changes with various 'specials'. I've seen 6 to 8" poi changes at 25 yards. More at 50 and 100

I simply cannot get the pistol/carbine in same caliber thing to work well.
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Oh I agree, it is not advisable. That said, it does give you an option that you cant do with most other combos. Also, it allows you to use .357 in the rifle and .38 in the pistol (thus eliminating problem number 1) and still be able to interchange if you run out of one and cant find replacement ammo. Not ideal, but an option you don't have otherwise.
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