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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:21:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2013 7:30:05 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Harbor Freight has a series of abrasive blasting tanks, likely ASTM rated for 150 psi.

The interesting thing is they already have a large fill opening of about 2 or 2 1/2 inches with provision for a gasket of the material of your choice.

Here is the largest one that costs abt $130 IIRC, and of course with coupons prolly can be had close to $100 w/ careful shopping.

Nominal dimensions w/out end bells is 14 dia and 19 long.



This tank is on wheels, and has openings on top and bottom. The bottom has a 2" or so diameter thick plate threaded for ~3/8 NPT that can likely be redrilled and tapped up to 1" NPT or larger.

There is a pressure relief valve in one of the top ports.

The tank is designed for pressurization with air.

I've been looking for a small tank for kerosene to supply the Toyotomi vented kerosene heater and one of these might do the job nicely.


Running the dimensions thru an online tank volume calculator, with the end bells, I figger a capacity of 16 gallons easy, with room for thermal liquid expansion.


Link Posted: 11/14/2013 7:24:08 PM EDT
I know it's not really in line with the discussion...





But when you said "all sorts of materials", "fill hole", and I realized you can hook and air line to pressureize it...





Am I the only one who thinks "industrial flame thrower"?
Link Posted: 11/14/2013 7:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2013 7:28:18 PM EDT by EXPY37]
They have a ceramic nozzle...


There are two smaller sizes and one might be perfect for a Tacticool wheelbarrow.

Or a MaxiPad backpack.

Link Posted: 11/14/2013 8:28:17 PM EDT
I think flamethrower is the only reasonable option.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:51:10 AM EDT
get a keg




Link Posted: 11/15/2013 6:35:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 6:46:04 AM EDT by EXPY37]
A keg is a great idea for a storage container.

So are the stainless soda flavor containers with the removable 'lid' sort of thing, I guess for filling and cleaning.

What are they called?  *** ball lock kegs


I bought 2 nice ones about 8 yrs ago from the scrapyard for abt $10 ea.

The 15 gallon kegs are on ebay for say $150 w/ shipping.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 8:42:38 AM EDT
Might also make a fire extinguisher for those who can't find the old style extinguishers that you fill with water and a bit of dawn dish soap and then use an air compressor to pressurize the thing.



I am one of those who can't find the old style extinguishers.



If you are considering this sort of thing go ahead and consider trying out one of the 5 or 10 gallon compressed air tanks that are portable.  You can buy them new for not much money and used for even less money.  Inside of tank may not be perfect so consider that with your fuel of choice.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 3:59:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
get a keg

<a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/taylorwso/media/20130606_073956_zps93839093.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/20130606_073956_zps93839093.jpg</a>
View Quote
I

Could you post what you did to turn that keg into a viable fuel tank?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/28/2013 6:27:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2013 9:08:42 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Finished the conversion of the red sand blast tank to a kero storage tank to supply a small KeroSun Laser 30 heater.

The adaptation worked beautifully.

Plugged the bottom and center/lower openings with brass 3/8" pipe plugs.

Made a simple/special 3/8" fitting for the  3/8 port for a dip hose to the bottom of the tank and a flare fitting on the outside to some small dia AN stainless braided hydraulic/fuel hose.

Ran the AN hose to the Toyotomi "Lift Pump" that's mounted above the tank.

Installed a separate breaker and outlet from the solar system inverter to power the lift pump, current drain is miniscule.

Ran about 15 feet of 3/8 copper thru some grey PVC conduit [for protection] behind a wall of the free standing room we built in the 'barn'. Then thru the wall to the heater.

Lift pumps are small and not inexpensive, but didn't have much other choice. I'd have had to elevate the tank otherwise and really didn't want the possibility of an uncontrolled leak of 15 gallons of diesel or kero all over.

We shut certain power off when not there and this is part of it.

All a lift pump is, is a tiny motor turning a pump that can self prime to a height of 16 feet, then fill a 1 qt reservoir, that breaks any siphoning action, and gravity feeds the heater.

Also any air in the fuel line -from the tank- is automatically purged when the reservoir is filled.  

There is a logic control board and high and low and safety float switches in the small reservoir. It's not much bigger than 1/2 a fat loaf of bread.

Thinking about drilling the screw-off cap, adding a 1/8" brass nipple, and slipping in a brass rod and float as a fuel level indicator.



Link Posted: 11/29/2013 7:50:20 AM EDT
I would be interested in pics if possable.



I halfway was wondering about using air pressure to move the liquid out but I need to read up on what problems this can cause.  It would be regulated to a nice low pressure but I know it can still put a lot of stress on the container.



Lift pumps are not cheap and some folks might consider automative electric fuel pumps as other options.  Some folks might have some sitting around from other hobbies.



For instance, I have a holley electric fuel pump around here somewhere that is rated for gasoline and will provide more than enough pressure and volume for a big block carbed race car.  




Link Posted: 11/29/2013 8:33:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2013 8:36:21 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By biere:
I would be interested in pics if possable.

I halfway was wondering about using air pressure to move the liquid out but I need to read up on what problems this can cause.  It would be regulated to a nice low pressure but I know it can still put a lot of stress on the container.

Lift pumps are not cheap and some folks might consider automative electric fuel pumps as other options.  Some folks might have some sitting around from other hobbies.

For instance, I have a holley electric fuel pump around here somewhere that is rated for gasoline and will provide more than enough pressure and volume for a big block carbed race car.  

View Quote



That's a good idea Biere.

The fuel pump I'm using with the Kubota powered alternator won't self prime.

The Toyotomi pump in the lift pump needs to be taken apart and examined.    It has a thin 'knob' on the top shaft extension that allows it to be turned. It feels like there is a rubber impeller in the pump section. It's all very compact...

You could easily use your fuel pump idea with the port on the bottom of the tank and mount it down low, and that would work well.

My heater is rated for only the inlet pressure of a head of kero of IIRC, 10 feet. That's roughly 5 psi, maybe...

The tank is rated for 150+ psi so your idea of pressurizing it would be fine too, altho there may be moisture introduced.

However, I'm trying to get a lot of other work done at the barn before wx shuts things down. Right now, I need to get the muffler on the Kubota assembly and it on wheels so it can be rolled around and outside. Recently, it came in handy since there was more cloud cover than the panels could make up for and the batteries went flat, Voltage dropped below 11.

Folks need to understand that the last 30% or so of charge into a battery----

To keep them HEALTHY with a high Specific Gravity...

Takes quite a long time and copious amounts of juice to get there.


We had great sun after the cloudy period and it took almost 4 days with around 7000+ watt hours per day to get them to the set point of 15.6 volts.

I'll equalize them soon since they got run down so far, to 16 or 16.1.


Link Posted: 11/29/2013 12:57:14 PM EDT
yeah, using compressed air will introduce moisture and I personally would not want to leave things pressurized.  But someone planning to refill some stuff or for a tractor where all the diesel would be used in one go the compressed air would be no biggy.



I keep looking at some of the military tent heaters that use diesel or kerosene or other forms of that stuff and I think this would be useful for that for a hunting cabin or heat for a garage or something.



You did make me look at sandblasters in a whole different way.  I was already looking at air compressor tanks in a whole new way.  
Link Posted: 11/29/2013 3:39:16 PM EDT
Doesn't using air make the mixture inside combustible?
Link Posted: 11/29/2013 3:45:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2013 3:46:13 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
Doesn't using air make the mixture inside combustible?
View Quote



Yes in a sense. There is always air in a fuel tank, the amount increasing as you empty it.

In the ap Biere is talking about, using diesel or kerosene, I doubt there would be any issue.

Gasoline on the other hand is completely different. If the air to fuel vapor ratio is right, and there's a source of ignition, all sorts of fun is can happen.  

That's why nobuddy smokes around open gas cans.  


Link Posted: 11/29/2013 6:55:32 PM EDT
Just some nice static in the line might make gasoline go boom, I would not use compressed air for that.



Kerosene or diesel or especially a mix of junk oil and liquids for the burn barrel would probably not bother me but I would run a few searches on it and do some reading on it first.



I am a big fan of gravity but I know using air pressure has been discussed on this board and many other boards in the past.



For something like this with wheels the gravity thing is not going to work all that well in every case but an electric pump rated for the liquid being pumped would work and if you don't have the selfpriming setup then plumbing it into the bottom of the storage tank would work but when dealing with kerosene and diesel and gasoline and stuff like that the water settles to the bottom.



I think an initial test setup would just be a big rolling fire extinguisher similar to some of the old models.  A lot of water and some dawn dish soap and some compressed air will make a nice little water fire extinguisher.  Read up on what these are good for and not good for, and there you go.



I am halfway wondering if one of the little air tanks for airing up your tires would work ok at emptying one of these larger tanks.  I am talking about the air tank you put compressed air into, not any sort of actual compressor.  Plumb it in with an off valve and you just turn it on when you need it.  Might be handy for some projects in the garage and what not maybe.



Something to mess with anyway.  I figure a pawnshop or craigslist should have a used sand blaster before long if all the arfcommers don't snatch em up first.




Link Posted: 11/30/2013 4:13:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 4:31:18 AM EDT
You guys are pretty smart

I really like the keg/gravity fed gas pump idea. That'd be awesome for the high octane I keep for the motos.

Holding a 5gal can above a bike for long enough to fill it kinda sucks. Plus you need a funnel if your can is pretty full.
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 8:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2013 8:22:33 PM EDT by Surf]
This is easier then it looks.   Blitz 15 gallon fuel tank.    Step stool every month or so and you are fine.



When I first read this thread, this is what i was thinking.
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 10:15:09 AM EDT
Looking at the tanks and stuff here, next time you are at H-F, walk around and look at all their goods and think how you could adapt them to other things you need to get done.

That's a good survival exercise.

Link Posted: 12/1/2013 1:08:03 PM EDT
The blitz tanks all left when blitz had their money problems from the law suit on the 5 gallon cans.



I do have one of those tanks and like that it is dot rated so I plan to stick it on a trailer for portability maybe.  Lots of stuff, lots of ideas, just don't have enough money and stuff for all the project possabilities.



I never checked if the blitz tanks are back.



But I do some back to perhaps using one as a roll around fire extinguisher or something.
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 1:40:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By biere:
The blitz tanks all left when blitz had their money problems from the law suit on the 5 gallon cans.

I do have one of those tanks and like that it is dot rated so I plan to stick it on a trailer for portability maybe.  Lots of stuff, lots of ideas, just don't have enough money and stuff for all the project possabilities.

I never checked if the blitz tanks are back.

But I do some back to perhaps using one as a roll around fire extinguisher or something.
View Quote



I think your idea to use on of the big $100 with coupon blaster tanks as a fire extinguisher where something that big would be useful, is a good idea!

Link Posted: 12/1/2013 8:30:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2013 8:30:46 PM EDT by diggosjnh]
If you are considering this sort of thing go ahead and consider trying out one of the 5 or 10 gallon compressed air tanks that are portable, I think!!
http://goo.gl/MhX8nd
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 9:58:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By biere:
I am one of those who can't find the old style extinguishers.
View Quote

They're on ebay all the time, ~$50 used (sometimes less) or about $90 brand new.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 2:04:06 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Surf:
This is easier then it looks.   Blitz 15 gallon fuel tank.    Step stool every month or so and you are fine.

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee403/flytosail3/a4af869f147383a58e4cffd2189d339f_zps790b4fde.jpg

When I first read this thread, this is what i was thinking.
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awesome, the off floor mount is especially cool.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:49:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 8:48:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By biere:
Might also make a fire extinguisher for those who can't find the old style extinguishers that you fill with water and a bit of dawn dish soap and then use an air compressor to pressurize the thing.

I am one of those who can't find the old style extinguishers.

View Quote


You say old style, but they are currently made by all the major manufacturers (Amerex, Kidde, Badger), are are in stock at many supply houses.  Grainger, Forestry Suppliers Inc and McMaster have them, and any fire extingusher dealer can get them from Baker.

The safety nazis are scared you will electrocute yourself with them., but as long as you don't spray into huge  or high voltage panel boxes or switch gear, they are safe.  Standard issue on almost every fire truck, and common in certain occupancies (hay bailers, cotton mills/gins, woodshops)

Besides 2 in my shop, I have six that I'll throw in the truck for a brushfire ( mine, or one out of control).  15 gallons of high pressure water can make a hell of a difference.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 9:00:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:



Yes in a sense. There is always air in a fuel tank, the amount increasing as you empty it.

In the ap Biere is talking about, using diesel or kerosene, I doubt there would be any issue.

Gasoline on the other hand is completely different. If the air to fuel vapor ratio is right, and there's a source of ignition, all sorts of fun is can happen.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
Doesn't using air make the mixture inside combustible?



Yes in a sense. There is always air in a fuel tank, the amount increasing as you empty it.

In the ap Biere is talking about, using diesel or kerosene, I doubt there would be any issue.

Gasoline on the other hand is completely different. If the air to fuel vapor ratio is right, and there's a source of ignition, all sorts of fun is can happen.  


The vapor pressure of gasoline in a tank at normal temperatures is too rich to be exposive- A few psi won't change that.

The vapor pressure of diesel or kero is too lean (below the LEL), more air moves you away form being explosive.  Again, at really hot temperatures this can change.

We (as will as other firefigting agencies) use these modified jerry can lids to pressurize the jerry can to transfer fuel without spilling.  Completely safe, and I believe studdied by some NPS/USFS/BLM experiment station.  Ironically the federal agencies are supposed to stop using the jerry cans because they are non CARB complaint.  But if you have to refuel a generator or pump and you will tolerate no risk of fuel spillage (for operational/safety or enviromental  reasons), these are awesome.  I want to say they are made by Outback.  It's an AUS company regardless.

Link Posted: 12/2/2013 12:35:07 PM EDT
Alrighty, been playing on northern tool and elsewhere due to all kinds of deals and emails and sales and what not.



The large 15 gallon gas caddy is still around, northern tool had one but of course price went up from when I got mine.  Due to its fuel cap design I would probably leave it a gravity feed setup and what not.  As shown in pic it could be mounted and you could fill it at the house or it might somewhat work on a trailer but I am figuring on mounting it up towards the front on a piece of framework to have it higher than a lawnmower or quad gas tank so it can fill common stuff with gravity.  The trailer is kind of a camping, 4 wheeler, tool trailer setup and between the mowers and 4 wheeler and generators the fuel will be used.  Trailer is just an old utility trailer I am modifying for an all purpose trailer.  Load trailer for intended trip and go.  Barn can hold all toys and it should not be hard to load trailer up to go.



In running searches I agree that what I call old style water fire extinguishers are still made.  We had a thread a year or three ago about how more than a couple of the designs now might not have the fill valve for adding air pressure, I forget the brand name we were discussing but I do recall checking amazon and it was a model where the new one did not come with an easy way for a homeowner to pressurize the fire extinguisher.



Due to being on project overload, considering moving has caused me to get things in order and get projects finished, sometimes started and finished, I have all kinds of parts around and have been ordering all kinds of parts as well.



Depending on what you run into some stuff might be easily modified for other purposes, I never really paid attention to sand blasting stuff because I never headed that direction for repairing and working on stuff.



I turn wrenches and can cut up wood and what not but sandblasting never came into play.



As far as ebay, I am a neanderthal who will shop closeouts all over the net and buy from random strangers in the ee at sites like this.  I never got into ebay and that is my loss and my gain.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 1:28:06 PM EDT
Someone (I forget who) advertises they require refill adaptors.  I can get my local dealer to order stuff like that for me at list price from baker.

It's pretty common in rural fire departments for the FD to fill their own cans, and not be FM/UL complaint.  Maybe in largre cities, they refill them in house or have a local vendor thus don't care about the adaptor, but they ones I have and we (the VFD) have s standard shrader valve.  I've even seen them used as air tanks.  They are a hell of a lot lighter then the factory steel tanks.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 11:45:16 AM EDT
Got a H-F flyer in the mail and the subject tank is on sale for $89.99

I paid with a 25% off code number I found on the net, about $105.

Link Posted: 12/4/2013 11:51:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:48:11 AM EDT
Going to add pix soon, I hope...


Link Posted: 3/22/2014 10:39:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2014 10:45:04 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Here's the modified tank with kero and feeding the 'Lift Pump' for the 15k BTU heater.






And the lift pump...




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