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Posted: 1/22/2008 4:02:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 4:05:07 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:07:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 4:09:15 AM EST by 53vortec]
Black ice is some nasty stuff, an entire area can get crazy fast.

Somehow I'm not surprised that you're smart enough to know the conditions were coming, and to stay the off the roads.

Btw, your thread title scared the hell out of me. I was thinking CENTCOM or NORAD had just gone blind.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:10:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 4:12:46 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:13:38 AM EST
It sounds like some bad decisions were made. I hope they are held responsible for it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:14:24 AM EST
the same thing happen around Raleigh about 2 years ago. A lit dusting of snow iced up the roads about lunch time. Schools tried to let kids out, sent buses out, traffic was complet grid lock, most folks taking 4-6 hours to get home, some kids spent the night at schools. It was a big mess. Of course the blame game started after that- why didn't school close the night before, why werent the roads pretreated, the gov. did not do enough. It was a big joke.
Stay safe.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:19:18 AM EST
Same thing in G'boro. Our department has already ran 15 wreck calls and I have 8 kids from a school bus sitting in the FD dayroom.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:19:31 AM EST
Same in central NC. Thank God, that the schools are closed today. Black ice, people still driving normally, multiple overturned vehicles, 911 centers almost over volume.

All they had to do was slow down.

nct
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:20:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:24:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 4:25:50 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:30:07 AM EST
Remember folks, this was just an ice storm..

If you think the sheeple are panicky idiots, wait for something REALLY serious happens.

TJ, not surprised by your actions, you seem to be one jump ahead when SHTF.

Ops
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:36:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 4:36:57 AM EST by Hawken50]
wow, black ice, ice storms, freezing rain and blizzard like snow is a weekly occurance around here. amazing that something that's routine in one area could wreak so much havok in another.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:41:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:44:06 AM EST
Well sounds like a total ball dropping by those in charge,....school for being open, the local governments for not prepping the roads and lastly the parents not smart enough to stay home with thier kids until the roads are passable. I'm sure the insurance companies will be pissed.

I understand that you southerners don't have this stuff as frequently as the north but it shouldn't be a completely strange and new thing. (TJ excepted)

-Oh and chains for black ice? I'm not sure that's a always a good idea, they reduce the tire's contact patch and frequently increase stopping distances not shorten them. I was under the impression they're for snow and not so much ice unless you have the sharp V bar type to cut into the ice.

Well best of luck to all those affected! especially the children!!!

SoS
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:49:07 AM EST
We run some of our patrol cars with studded tires. They mostly run north on transport duty. The trouble is they're not good for much unless it's snowing. So you're stuck either running regular treads and being able to run hot to a call or running studs and taking the performance hit. Most agencies won't pop for an extra set of tires for a quick change. I don't know anyone who runs or carries chains in their Crown Vic.

Our order of the day when it started getting nasty was to go stationary and wait for urgent calls. Oh, and most of us had sense enough to wear proper footwear. I once stepped on a frozen road-kill possum and nearly broke my arm while out at a traffic crash. "Possum Surfing", yeah, that was a proud moment in my early career.

If it gets bad enough I've seen them just park the Crown Vics and turn to using trucks from the County Garage and personal 4x4's. I've used my Jeep in that role a couple of times. No, I have no idea of how to transport a prisoner in a Wrangler. I guess you could just strap 'em to the hood like a deer.

We got the black ice here this morning. I followed a "yuppie" in a BMW who was yakking on his cell phone and drinking a cup of coffee on one of the more treacherous stretches of road around here. I swear, the guy was using hand signals like a NASCAR driver to let me know when he was checking up on his speed instead of just hitting his brakes, he really was a breath of fresh air.

J.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:49:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:49:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hawken50:
wow, black ice, ice storms, freezing rain and blizzard like snow is a weekly occurance around here. amazing that something that's routine in one area could wreak so much havok in another.
.

Trust me when I say ice down here aint like ice up there......Grew up in ohio and lived all over but have never seen damage like an ice storm causes down here......think its because the trees grow faster and are weaker.....more pine trees too.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:52:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:59:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

The only way out was via chain saw.

Tj



I need to remember that quote for the next hurricane!
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:05:25 AM EST
We lost power for several days around this time last year...the only thing that was was more unnerving than the silence, lack of light, etc. was the sound of limbs coming down. I kept hoping that one of them wouldn't pull the weather head off my house. The kids were disappointed that this year's storm missed us; they wanted to "camp" indoors like last year!
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:11:36 AM EST
pfft.



Av.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:12:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:It only takes a hand on the ground to know its cold and radar has been tracking this light rain for two days now.

It's pretty sad listening to all these injuries, many of them very serious, knowing for everyone they are getting two aren't. The radios a buzzing with activity.

Tj
as a fire fighter and medic i can tell you just because it sounds bad on the radio doesnt mean it is in real life. thats probably one of the reasons the 911 center was taking real emergency calls only. everybody and there mother calling in the same accidents over and over gets old and ties up the phones if there is a real emergency.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:14:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:16:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:20:03 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Avalon01:
pfft.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/avalon01/ice_car_330_330x330.jpg

Av.


Now that's an ICE storm.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:21:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
This radio is a great thing. It kind of really let's you know where you stack up on the priority level.


I love my scanner. It's a main part of my preps since you can learn much more listing to the scanner than the local news sources.


Good luck down there. We just had 8 inches of snow dumped on us last night. Everything is nice and slippery.

Av.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:34:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 5:42:04 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 5:46:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 6:26:55 AM EST
Its a sad commentary on American culture that so many people get in their cars and start driving around in nasty weather just like any other day. They don't leave earlier, no snow tires, no chains, no emergency gear, no planning of any kind. If and when they crash somewhere, even if they're unhurt, their only instinct is to dial 911 on the cellphone and wait for help. Whatever happened to people using basic sense and planning?
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 6:31:46 AM EST
Damn.

Stay safe.

Link Posted: 1/22/2008 6:51:29 AM EST
It's going to be a boom day for body shops here in Knoxville. I guess the insurance co's will be hiking rates too.

Fortunately I am weather dependent and knew to stay in bed.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 7:15:45 AM EST
Tom Jeferson - when you mentioned 1993 i had a belly laugh - that was the year our then illustrious governor rockefeller made the following announcement - The state of WV is now closed. nothing else followed - all ya had to do was look out at the hi way or any road and there were 4 to 6 foot drifts - so i guess some people had to be told not to go out. thanks for reminding me of that
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 7:34:03 AM EST
blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/local_news_64.html

Fulton, NY received about 40inches of snow in a little over a 24hr period. Not that unusual in "lake effect" country, and normally easily handled. What sucked was when the town DPW's roof collapsed due to the weight of the snow. All the plows were out, but the town's garbage collection rigs are buried, among other gear. Major clusterf--k.

Lake effect can be very localized, for those of you who don't know what it is. It can fall in very narrow bands. I live maybe 35 miles S of Fulton, and enjoyed sunny skies while they were getting hammered.

I agree that bad ice storms are the worst.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 7:37:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 7:43:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:How about some examples?

you would be surprised at how many times people will call 911 for the same thing over and over. the GF is a 911 dispatcher and i know almost all of them and have spent more hours then i care to admit in the 911 center. you can bet that a single accident will get at least 6 calls to the 911 center. factor in 5 or 6 accidents going on at one time due to weather, well, you get the point. the 911 center can only take so many calls at one time. the dispatchers get conflicting reports about injuries as well as locations. you also have people calling in for the stupidest crap. people call 911 asking if schools have closed, if businesses have closed, stuff like that. its a huge PITA to be a dispatcher. its not as bad in larger areas that have call takers and dispatchers because the call takers filter out the crap and the dispatchers take care of actually getting people and equipment to where it needs to be.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 8:01:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 8:02:32 AM EST by Merlin]
TJ, whereabouts do you live in TN? I hope this crap isn't coming down here to North Alabama/Huntsville!

Doesn't look that good for tomorrow AM: NOAA


Link Posted: 1/22/2008 8:10:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By RetailOp:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:
pfft.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/avalon01/ice_car_330_330x330.jpg

Av.


Now that's an ICE storm.


they parked next to a large bosy of water that is all pretty much from the spray freezing I would say. There are a few pics around from that though they are neat to look at. Here in Nebraska the ice and snow are the norm but you still get idiots here too. When ever it snows/ices up in the south it seems like people are running around with their heads cut off.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 8:31:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 8:39:42 AM EST
TJ, I feel your pain, but I would be lying if I didn't tell you I chuckled while envisioning southerners coming to grips with slick roads! Even in Indy, people get a little jittery the first snow or two.

Hope all turns out well and nobody else gets hurt!
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 9:12:16 AM EST
Somewhat off topic but a black ice story:

I live in the Eastern Sierra. Late one winter night, I was coming home from Cali on 88. A winding mountain 2 lane. The road was totally clear with 4-5 foot snow banks on either side. A vehicle was following me pretty close. While going approx. 50 mph, I hit black ice and spin out. When my truck spun around backwards, my front right fender hits the right snow bank and truck (with cab level Snug Top Shell) flips up on to the snow bank. I’m now upside down, still going backwards. The rear bumper digs in and the truck flips end over end - landing back in the road facing the original direction. The only thing I can think of is being rear-ended at 50 mph. I crank the starter and slam it in gear. Approx. ¼ mile down the road is a place to pull out. The guy that was following me stops to see if I was all right. He tells me “I though you were DEAD!!" – "Right when I ran up to your door, you pulled away.”

Funny how it seemed to only take seconds in my mind but he came to a stop and got out of his truck. My truck ended up with fender damage, a blown out side window, a bent frame and severely bent front rim. I managed to limp the 40 miles home.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 11:12:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 11:21:15 AM EST
Some cars in the ditch and kids having to walk home from school. Sound like every winter where i grew up.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 11:23:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 11:25:15 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 11:46:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By nate1865:
TJ, I feel your pain, but I would be lying if I didn't tell you I chuckled while envisioning southerners coming to grips with slick roads! Even in Indy, people get a little jittery the first snow or two.

Hope all turns out well and nobody else gets hurt!


Well I was laughing this morning myself at the idea that nobody realized that it was the ground temperature that was freezing the rain not the air.

They seriously didn't see this coming.

Other than watching how the people didn't know how to drive (they were still hitting my hill at normal speeds and it was solid ice), the amusement ended as I realized most people listen to the news before they go out the door in the mornings.

Only half the school systems closed and those that did only did it 15 minutes before opening.

So far the death count is two just from traffic accidents and that's just one county, Knox. Their schools were scheduled to be out nothing to do with the storm. They're reporting now 4 out of 5 ambulance runs were for actually falling on the ice and they weren't responding to those calls for two hours until those injured in cars were taken care of first. It will take a while to sort this out if they ever do.

It was a real wake up call how fragile this system is when something semi-catastrophic hits without warning. I can only imagine how bad it would be if it was something so widespread and more catastrophic.

Tj


911 is weak. I've called 911 and gotten busy signals during rush hour before when I had a real emergency. Of course, once I did get through, they still wouldn't send someone to protect my wife who was being stalked, followed, and confronted by some predatory freak - don't get me started....
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 12:06:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 12:11:10 PM EST by XM15e2sGreenBay]
i was gonna say the say thing..im in Green bay WI...we get it all too ( black ice, regular ice, ice storms, lot's of snow ) ....its normal and not a big deal around here..yet other places get a little ice & the world ends ... Amazing
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 12:42:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 12:46:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By nate1865:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By nate1865:
TJ, I feel your pain, but I would be lying if I didn't tell you I chuckled while envisioning southerners coming to grips with slick roads! Even in Indy, people get a little jittery the first snow or two.

Hope all turns out well and nobody else gets hurt!


Well I was laughing this morning myself at the idea that nobody realized that it was the ground temperature that was freezing the rain not the air.

They seriously didn't see this coming.

Other than watching how the people didn't know how to drive (they were still hitting my hill at normal speeds and it was solid ice), the amusement ended as I realized most people listen to the news before they go out the door in the mornings.

Only half the school systems closed and those that did only did it 15 minutes before opening.

So far the death count is two just from traffic accidents and that's just one county, Knox. Their schools were scheduled to be out nothing to do with the storm. They're reporting now 4 out of 5 ambulance runs were for actually falling on the ice and they weren't responding to those calls for two hours until those injured in cars were taken care of first. It will take a while to sort this out if they ever do.

It was a real wake up call how fragile this system is when something semi-catastrophic hits without warning. I can only imagine how bad it would be if it was something so widespread and more catastrophic.

Tj


911 is weak. I've called 911 and gotten busy signals during rush hour before when I had a real emergency. Of course, once I did get through, they still wouldn't send someone to protect my wife who was being stalked, followed, and confronted by some predatory freak - don't get me started....


The sad thing is your call didn't get through most likely because some soccer mom had an issue with her coffee from starbucks that I can't pronounce. I have a neighbor who had the FD respond to her house 3 times in one night because she thought her house was on fire. Why'd she think the house was on fire? Because a circuit breaker tripped and she just assumed a fire knocked out the power. This was at 230am, 340am, 5am. Needless to say I didn't sleep that night.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 12:55:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Originally Posted By nate1865:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By nate1865:
TJ, I feel your pain, but I would be lying if I didn't tell you I chuckled while envisioning southerners coming to grips with slick roads! Even in Indy, people get a little jittery the first snow or two.

Hope all turns out well and nobody else gets hurt!


Well I was laughing this morning myself at the idea that nobody realized that it was the ground temperature that was freezing the rain not the air.

They seriously didn't see this coming.

Other than watching how the people didn't know how to drive (they were still hitting my hill at normal speeds and it was solid ice), the amusement ended as I realized most people listen to the news before they go out the door in the mornings.

Only half the school systems closed and those that did only did it 15 minutes before opening.

So far the death count is two just from traffic accidents and that's just one county, Knox. Their schools were scheduled to be out nothing to do with the storm. They're reporting now 4 out of 5 ambulance runs were for actually falling on the ice and they weren't responding to those calls for two hours until those injured in cars were taken care of first. It will take a while to sort this out if they ever do.

It was a real wake up call how fragile this system is when something semi-catastrophic hits without warning. I can only imagine how bad it would be if it was something so widespread and more catastrophic.

Tj


911 is weak. I've called 911 and gotten busy signals during rush hour before when I had a real emergency. Of course, once I did get through, they still wouldn't send someone to protect my wife who was being stalked, followed, and confronted by some predatory freak - don't get me started....


The sad thing is your call didn't get through most likely because some soccer mom had an issue with her coffee from starbucks that I can't pronounce. I have a neighbor who had the FD respond to her house 3 times in one night because she thought her house was on fire. Why'd she think the house was on fire? Because a circuit breaker tripped and she just assumed a fire knocked out the power. This was at 230am, 340am, 5am. Needless to say I didn't sleep that night.


Yep. Another time I called 911 to report a fire I saw from the interstate via my cell, and the dispatcher answered - before I could speak - with "Are you calling about the fire in the apartments? We're already responding."

That was my awakening to big brother!
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 1:06:08 PM EST
I haven't seen ANY snow since 1977, but believe me, I can imagine this. I'd imagine that under conditions like this, any hill grade worth mentioning is utterly impassable. To get into your car and try to drive down a hill is to take your life into your own hands. To try it on a mountainside is equal to declaring your intent to commit suicide.

Stay put if you possibly can, for a few days. It's not worth getting killed on the road just
to go pick up some items from the store, or go to school.


CJ
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 1:07:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2008 1:11:12 PM EST by fxntime]
Southern folk can't drive on ice or snow.

Saw that first hand while at Ft McClellen Ala. Looked like a Ceder Point ride there were so many T/As.

A perfect ballet of buffoon driving.

I do hope the T/As are all minor and no one is hurt.

Blizzacks [maybe SP?] kick butt in winter weather driving, they suck in the warmth and wear extremely fast used year round.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 1:19:19 PM EST
I am an extremely experienced winter driver. When I walk out of my house, and I slide the 20 feet to my garage without taking a step, I shuffle my way back inside and call it a day!

I tease my friend down south about their winter driving skills, but I also try to give them practical advise to survive it as well.

This was my drive last weekend to get groceries. Pretty easy driving because its just snow.

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