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Posted: 8/14/2007 1:48:00 PM EDT
What does ARF SF think about nvg's? Are they worth money? or is that money best put to other uses?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:51:00 PM EDT
I see them as a luxury item that, once I have acquired all other necessary gear, I will purchase; right after my body armor
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:53:42 PM EDT
Only after everything else, which includes a somewhat self-sufficient retreat.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:04:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gr8outdrsmn:
I see them as a luxury item that, once I have acquired all other necessary gear, I will purchase; right after my body armor


+1

question: is their a head mounted 0x magnification unit available for less than $500, less than $1000, even worth considering?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:10:51 PM EDT
I have to say yes. It goes back to prioritizing your preps. Would I buy a set before handling proper food, water, and shelter? No. Neither would I buy a set before proper financial preps (paid off credit cards, paid off vehicle, no "store" accounts, healthy savings allotment, etc). However, I would rather have my NVG's than that fourth, buried AR with the 22nd case of ammo.

I always considered them a luxury until I bought a set for work. They open up a whole new area of observation. I found a runaway juvenile and a bushbound suspect with mine. Other officers had walked within 10 feet of the with flashlights, and didn't see them.

I will say that the latest, greatest, gen 5 set is not a necessity. Mine have a gen 2+ European tube, and perform just fine. I got them for around $1400. I have an infrared illuminator that really extends the range.

Long story short, they worth the money, but only as an advanced prep. There are a lot of other basics to take care of before dropping $1500-$3000 on a set.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:30:46 PM EDT
All about living within your means.

If you can afford it without adding to debt & already have your basics then I say look into it.

I would place night vision behind body armor in a list of stuff to get for SHTF.

I would also look at the more reasonable Gen 2+, which are much less expensive, but have great performance.

Gen 1 is a waste of money in my opinion that could be best spent elsewhere.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:11:46 PM EDT
i think some cheap nvg's would be usefull to a point
i wouldnt want to spend alot of money on a set of green screens and throw them in my bugout gear

for the cost of nightvision i dont see why everyone dosent pick up a set
along with a flashlight style high power IR illuminator that will greatly increse the range of gen 1 nvg's
for the non serious darkness guy
i cant justify spending over a grand on nvg's when considering the ammount of use you will give them
and for most people gen 1 is good enough

there may be a time when you need to see something thats going on or want to watch an area without using a flashlight or anything giving away your position
that said heres a set im looking at actually

www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2477543&cp=2367824.2282096.2282220&view=all&parentPage=family&searchId=2282220

or a binocular style if you cant get uest to one eye green and one in the dark

www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2477544&cp=2367824.2282096.2282220&view=all&parentPage=family&searchId=2282220

even cheaper
www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=684960&cp=2367824.2282096.2282220&view=all&parentPage=family&searchId=2282220

with the cost of nightvision being what it is
and the amount of use it would see on average
and the usefullness of even gen 1 when you actually need it

theres no excuse not to have at least some gen1 hands free night vision
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:19:54 PM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:20:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 4:21:45 PM EDT by HootieWho]
Before I bought mine, yes I would have considered it a luxury item, but since I got them, they are an absolute necessity. You cannot imagine how they will enable you move at night, hunt at night, drive at night................... Check out some of my NVG pic's in the NVG forum, inder the "lets see what they can do thread"



They would enable you to hunt game with a suppressor at night if you needed to feed your family. Keep a watch on your property at night, move about and cross property that you might not be able to otherwise. FWIW, I have a PVS 14.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:41:46 PM EDT
see, just look at that
how can you not have NVG's
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:18:48 PM EDT
Absolutely for my situation and I would think so for most.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:07:29 PM EDT
I have a D300, Gen.2+ and I love it! I'm saving for a PVS14 or a MUM in the future, but will keep the D300 as an auxillary unit. I feel that NV would be a very useful tool in a SHTF situation. But as others have said, only if your other preps are up to speed. ARKAR
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:24:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARKAR:
I have a D300, Gen.2+ and I love it! I'm saving for a PVS14 or a MUM in the future, but will keep the D300 as an auxillary unit. I feel that NV would be a very useful tool in a SHTF situation. But as others have said, only if your other preps are up to speed. ARKAR




Got a link?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:54:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HootieWho:
Before I bought mine, yes I would have considered it a luxury item, but since I got them, they are an absolute necessity. You cannot imagine how they will enable you move at night, hunt at night, drive at night...................


I agree. You don't know what you are missing without them.

As always, you have to tailor your preps to your budget and expected threat vectors, but I was stunned to see the quality and the capabilities of this equipment.

I would be very uncomfortable knowing that potential 'bad-guys' might have NVD and I did not in a no-electricity night-time type of situation.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:00:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColtRifle:

Originally Posted By ARKAR:
I have a D300, Gen.2+ and I love it! I'm saving for a PVS14 or a MUM in the future, but will keep the D300 as an auxillary unit. I feel that NV would be a very useful tool in a SHTF situation. But as others have said, only if your other preps are up to speed. ARKAR




Got a link?


I bought mine from here: OpticHQ, but I'd buy from Victor; who is the moderator of the night vision forum of ar15.com, if I was buying the unit again. I'll be buying my next unit from him.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:12:37 PM EDT
The only thing worse than hearing "it depends" over and over is typing it over and over. It depends . Your needs and resources will dictate the value. I picked up a cheapie Bushnell Gen 1 about a year or two back. It will not allow me to navigate terrain well, read the newspaper in pitch black, hunt at night, et cetera. It will allow me to discretely watch the public park behind my house (my back fence is the border) and I can differentiate human from animal and can identify if someone's empty-handed or not out to about 200 yards +/-. And that's why it's my bug-in tool and doesn't live in my bail bag. The plan is to lay low and watch. If I see what looks like questionable activity, we ready the gajillion jigawatt handheld spotlight and any other "appropriate equipment".

Is it perfect? Nope. Was it worth that hundred-something bucks for a little extra intel on activity, literally, my backyard? Yeah. I think so. Eventually I'll upgrade but it's very low on my priority list after getting out of debt, increase food stores, getting medical training, et cetera.

What will you use it for? What can you easily afford?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:57:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 9:03:09 PM EDT by suprshootr]
What gen is that pic?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:13:43 PM EDT
It is dark without power. In a world without electricy, NV would gives you a decisive advantage.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:27:02 PM EDT
The only down side (other than the cost) is the fact that others may have it as well. All the camoflage in the world wont hide your IR to someone with NV.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 10:37:52 PM EDT
Looks like 3
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 10:46:56 PM EDT
If you want the flexibility in "upping" your
averages at night, then yes...

I think Night Vision is indispensable.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 11:16:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By suprshootr:
What gen is that pic?


Gen III, you will hear this a lot and there is a reason, but the pics do not do the unit justice. It is unreal when you look through it. I have rigged all the interior lights in my truck so that I can turn them off, then at night I cut the lights off and cruise the back roads with the PVS 14 helmet mounted. You can't imagine the number of deer and other critters that you will see. Driving with it on is awesome, and you can see other's headlights coming for miles off. It would be extremely useful in movement through uncertian terrian at night.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 11:28:14 AM EDT
ANPVS-14s, are truly awesome....
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 11:34:27 AM EDT
They give you a decided advantage.


I would want any advantage I can get.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 12:51:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kar15:

Originally Posted By gr8outdrsmn:
I see them as a luxury item that, once I have acquired all other necessary gear, I will purchase; right after my body armor


+1

question: is their a head mounted 0x magnification unit available for less than $500, less than $1000, even worth considering?


google patriot pocketscope. it is a mono made from one pvs5 tube. no frills, but a gen2 tube for less than $600 can't be beat. mine has been consistently impressive, even in no moon and overcast situations.

i prioritized it just ahead of concealable armor, and i'm very comfortable with that order.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 7:06:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 8:41:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2007 8:44:23 PM EDT by vrwc0915]
After you have food/shelter/ and the means to keep it they are invaluable

Stay away from the cheap gen1 stuff!

The ability to move undetected and avoid engagements is priceless!

Bad pun but its like night and day


Or to put it on a more serious note.
If you don;t have them and your MZB's do you are dead!


Link Posted: 8/16/2007 4:57:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By Kar15:

Originally Posted By gr8outdrsmn:
I see them as a luxury item that, once I have acquired all other necessary gear, I will purchase; right after my body armor


+1

question: is their a head mounted 0x magnification unit available for less than $500, less than $1000, even worth considering?


google patriot pocketscope. it is a mono made from one pvs5 tube. no frills, but a gen2 tube for less than $600 can't be beat. mine has been consistently impressive, even in no moon and overcast situations.

i prioritized it just ahead of concealable armor, and i'm very comfortable with that order.


Direct link for those interested
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 5:26:44 AM EDT
One of the reasons that the US military is so effective is that we literally own the night! It is a high priority item for the serious survivalist. I wouldn't go into debt over good NV...but I would work a second job to be able to afford it!

I wouldn't bother with cheap night vision. It is better than nothing but it also has some potentially deadly consequences for survival use. If you hit an IR illuminator and there are people out there watching with Third/Fourth gen gear (the kind of folks that should scare the crap out of you) you're basically shining a very bright flashlight and saying "Here I am and I have night vision".....that's alot of good intel. for the wrong kind of folks to have about you.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:16:26 AM EDT
I think a lot of posters consider NVD's as offensive gear (i.e. for shooting etc) rather than for what they really do. What they really do, is allow you to see in the dark. Period. Some allow you to see well enough to walk in the woods and get around safely with an auxillary IR source, some are good enough to let you drive, repair equipment, shoot etc.

Two weeks ago another SF member and I rode our KLR650's for 40+ miles down backroads and farmland. Paved, dirt, big puddles, it rocked. Traffic was a total non issue due to the time of night and the three cars we did see gave themselves away long enough to pull over, flip the goggles up (they shut off automatically) and realize that they are still waaaaaayy the hell down the road still.

The true worth of a pair of NVD's in the ARFCOM traditional survival fantasy is that they will help you avoid zombies, roadblocks, checkpoints, allow you to move anywhere on foot in places that NOBODY would look for you (like in a swamp) or would be willing to venture with a few flashlights. Guys here like to think tacticool about IR illuminators, "giving your position away", etc. but you have to realize that even if you did include all of the junk russian crap on the market they are STILL rare in this country. The military doesn't have enough for every soldier, most SWAT teams don't have them, and I can just about guarantee that I have the only pair in the county my BOL is in.

What the other poster said about the animals is very true. When I ride my mountain bike and stop along the trail really fast I can hear little feet hauling ass away from me but they never go far because the animals aren't that good at seeing in the dark either. When this happens it is very common to turn the illuminator and see little beady eyes poking around a tree trunk not 30 feet away. After SHTF, nobody would turn down a racoon for dinner...

Obviously, I think they are very essential for a survivalist to have-but keep in mind that you are not buying a device, you are not buying a toy, you are paying for the ability to see in the dark. You get what you pay for, and I can speak from experience that if you buy cheap, you will buy twice. I can't think of too many people who have Russian stuff and don't plan to upgrade later...
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:29:57 AM EDT
Also anything MILSPEC GEN II you will never need an IR source outdoors*


By far the biggest bang for the buck is the pvs-14
Monos are more adapatable than goggles.
That said if you are rich it is nicer to operate boats/cars with the goggles
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:43:02 AM EDT
I posted on this subject last year, or so. (Sorry could not find the thread)

NVG's are, without a doubt, a must have item.

Story:

My dog woke me up in the middle of the night with a low gutteral growl telling me there was someone outside.

I quietly looked outside without giving away my position, but could not see anyone.

My GSD however had her ears perked up and loooked right at the guy I could not see across the street.

I trust her instincts and senses without question, so.......

I grabbed my $100 NVG's (Famous Trails @ Big 5) (Russian Gen 1) and took another look.

Walla ! There he was, like a cockroach hiding in the dark shadows.

Point:

Even a crappy low dollar NVG is better than nothing.

If I would have walked outside to further investigate, say with a flashlight, I would have been at the disadvantage, he would have seen me first.

In a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation, this could spell the difference between being the victim or the survivor.

Just my .2 cents.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:44:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gr8outdrsmn:
I see them as a luxury item that, once I have acquired all other necessary gear, I will purchase; right after my body armor


Can't say it better than he did!
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:48:25 AM EDT
There are plenty of folks out there with night vision-more than you would think. I am seeing the cheapo viewers at pawn shops for $100 or so. I know a half dozen guys who hunt feral hogs and coyotes at night that have Nightscopes....

In my survival preps I don't worry about the "average" guy (plan for the lowest common denominator).....I worry about the guy that spends all his money on tactical gear, shooting schools and NOTHING on food.....That's the guy I plan for. The "average" guys won't make it past two weeks, they "average" will get thinned pretty quickly and what you get left with is the REALLY BAD GUYS, the ones who survived and learned- who are still around because of superior planning, skill or organization (numbers) or combination thereof....Be very afraid of them!

I have done enough night shooting to know how really difficult it is to accurately shoot in the dark at anything other than contact distances. I would not want to be without high quality NVD's when the lights really go out......
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 7:09:31 PM EDT
I have a pvs 14 and I bought it thinking it was just a luxury.

I guess it is a luxury if you can't afford to feed and clothe and own a basic handgun and rifle for self defense.

When the power goes out here in town, I live in a 2nd floor apartment in the center of a small town, it gets dark.

All the little trouble makers get really brave when it gets that dark.

Being able to watch them and turn a surefire flashlight on them from above sure is nice. No need to say anything, they are like roaches and run from the light.

They don't know how I can see where they are and get the light on them so easily, but they know I seem to be very protective of my building and truck parked in the alley.

I think anything is better than nothing, but depending on what your gun safe or safes look like it probably would not be hard to come up with some decent night vision.

I don't have the ir lasers that some have but it is a thought on my list of stuff to get.

Using the night vision around friends has taught me a lot. I have some friends and we ride quads on a buddy's property and at night they can hear me and the quad but they don't always know where I am at. If I am just bored at night and walking around they generally don't know where I am at.

Night vision will really let you see how many light sources there are in this world we live in. Even a campfire puts out a lot of light going upwards. Often I can't see the campfire for the trees in the way but I can see the light coming up out of the top of the trees, first time it took me a while to figure out what the heck I was looking at.

Just looking at the stars takes on a new thought process when you see what normally is not seen.

They are a luxury. Then again I consider my ccw piece a luxury as well.

Food, clothing, shelter, water, and air are required.

All else is luxury.

I don't have any body armor and don't really plan to buy any too soon.

But for my location keeping an eye on things in the dark is important so night vision is nice.
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