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Posted: 6/11/2009 2:39:47 PM EST
Many of you have been waiting for a field report detailing the killing effectiveness of 130 grain Ballistic Silvertip subsonic 6.8 loads.

I had a chance to try these out this past Saturday night. We had a full moon, and a neighbor asked us to come over and shoot some hogs that were rooting up his corn patch (and his front yard!) So, we decided that subs were the ticket, because we would be so close to the county road.

We are fully sanctioned to do this, but I would warn against any of you trying it without clearing with Game Wardens, local LEO etc. And, of course, GOD BLESS TEXAS....kissing the ground right now.

Many of you have asked me why we would shoot subsonics? Why give up the performance, just for the stealth? Well, this post is one reason why. We are not going to jeopardize anyone's property or safety for a few hogs. I believe that a 130 grain bullet going 1000 FPS is going to kill a hog, if you can stalk to within about 50 yards. Nerves of steel, NVD's and suppressors will help you, but I guess you had still better be pretty good at stalking up to them.

So, its 1:34 AM, and out we go. Within the first 30 minutes we have located the perps....a pair of hogs, very likely the alpha male in that pack, and a smaller boar, rooting the ditch in front of the neighbor's house. Now, he's at the end of a 1.4 mile stretch of county road, but the house is a major concern for us, so we stop the truck and get out. We stalk to within about 100 yards, and do a technique called "shuffling." That is, we start scratching the ground with our feet, so that they can hear something but they think perhaps we are another group of pigs, or other animal. At night, they are pretty bold, and this time it works. So, we shuffle around toward the field on the side of the ditch where we can shoot, and they continue that same direction. We quarter toward them, now to about 400 yards away from the farmer's yard, and there is the shot.

The boar stops, and grunts at me a few times, and then he starts to mingle around a little, protecting his territory. He still doesn't know we're danger, despite my being only about 35 yards from him. So as soon as he's sideways, I shoot him right in the neck with a 130 grain ballistic silvertip going about 1030 FPS. All you hear is ZZZIP, THWOP.....SQUEEEAL......SQUEEEAL, but he goes right down. So, I rack another one in, and shoot him in the head, and he's done. The neck shot went clean through the spine, and the head shot finished him. Damn fine performance. And no, I didn't try to get the bullet out of his head.

Onto the next hog. This one was on my neighbor's gated property, and was standing in the gravel road, next to a barbed wire fence. We stopped the truck, and got out, skulking up as quietly as possible. It started getting a little nervous, so I mounted the rifle as I closed the distance. He knew something wasn't right, and he stood up erect. "Watch out" I heard one guy whisper.....we knew he was about to charge in our direction. So, we sidestepped a little so that he might run past, and instead he retreated to the fence. I shot him in the neck just as he got to the fence, about 45 yards away. PFFFP, THWAP, Squeak....just a feeble little gasp, he stumbled about 20-30 feet, and then we heard him thrashing in the brush.....damn....another one pretty much DRT. I am not sure if I got the spine, but another pig had been spotted just another 200 yards away, totally oblivious to the shot, so we moved on. We wouldn't have seen that next hog shooting supersonic loads.

I don't know that I would have believed it if I hadn't seen it. These things penetrate and obviously can transect the spine, too. I do not know if they expanded but the exit on hog # 1 was a little bigger than the entrance. Can't tell if that was from bone frags or expansion. I am impressed, but this is not enough in the way of data points to tell you that we have a real trend. Moreover, I stalked to within hope-they-don't-charge-range. Good first steps, though, and two troublesome hogs are dead.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:11:44 PM EST

Sweet, story. Would love to know the DB's you were putting out.
Also the DB's without the SP.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:19:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chopper:

Sweet, story. Would love to know the DB's you were putting out.
Also the DB's without the SP.


To my ears, it sounds exactly like a Crosman, model 742, the old pump up BB/pellet gun, shooting a BB, but where you can hear the bullet whizzing through the air away from you. It has to be right around 110 dB. This is the most subdued subsonic centerfire load I have ever fired (bet remember that I have the gas completely shut off with my Paladin adj. gas block.)
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:32:51 PM EST
Are these the Combined Technology ballistic silvertips?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:34:53 PM EST
HTR, I have noticed that you are at the forefront of the 6.8/stealth hunting technology. Thanks again for another update!

PM sent regarding a bit of advice...

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:19:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Darkhawk:
Are these the Combined Technology ballistic silvertips?


Yes, that;'s exactly right. They are basically a Nosler Ballistic tip coated with Lubalox, and a silver plastic tip. They were terrible for supersonic rounds, but when I couldn't get them to perform like that, I figured maybe the extra long length could tun out to be an advantage.

Looks good so far.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:42:42 PM EST
That is fantastic! I'd like to hear one of these shoot off when we are down there next week, if possible.

I've got a feeling I'm going to be ordering a 6.8 upper at some point soon after our hunt.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:53:12 PM EST
What load are you using?

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:05:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:35:44 PM EST
yea PLEASE load data
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:20:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 6:29:12 PM EST by hi-tech-rancher]
Originally Posted By twistergixxer:
yea PLEASE load data



Sorry, I forgot that I posted it on 68forums, and never did here:


-SSA brass
-Wolf Primer
-130 grain combined technology / Nosler ballistic silvertip
-COAL 2.290"
-7.2 grains Trail Boss
-no filler


Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:48:52 PM EST
Trail Boss.

Isn't it great?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:13:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Trail Boss.

Isn't it great?


Link Posted: 6/12/2009 2:50:20 PM EST
HTR would you say the 6.8 shooting subsonics was on par noise wise with a surpressed .22? Nice report as usual.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:21:44 PM EST
Trail Boss.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:18:34 PM EST
C, very impressive that you have been working with both extremes of the velocity and projectile weight envelopes for 6.8 on hogs! The next time that we see each other, I will have the suppressed 6.8 SBR to try out, and it should be ready to run whatever ammo that you deem appropriate for the situation. Too bad that we had to miss that recent weekend when the humidity was nice and low.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:42:33 PM EST
This might be a stupid question. Why go this route vs say a 9mm running similar speeds out of a carbine?

Was it just to see what kind of utility the 6.8 can have? I am not trying to sound critical just curious ..... And envious of course.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:43:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By yekimak:
This might be a stupid question. Why go this route vs say a 9mm running similar speeds out of a carbine?

Was it just to see what kind of utility the 6.8 can have? I am not trying to sound critical just curious ..... And envious of course.


Because a 9mm is only ever a 9mm.

With a magazine change in HTR's gun, you can go from deathly quiet to spitting those fantastic 85gr combat loads from SSA.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:29:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 10:36:42 PM EST by hi-tech-rancher]
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By yekimak:
This might be a stupid question. Why go this route vs say a 9mm running similar speeds out of a carbine?

Was it just to see what kind of utility the 6.8 can have? I am not trying to sound critical just curious ..... And envious of course.


Because a 9mm is only ever a 9mm.

With a magazine change in HTR's gun, you can go from deathly quiet to spitting those fantastic 85gr combat loads from SSA.


EXACTLY

I can shoot subs when I need absolute stealth, and safety from full-power rounds traveling too far. All I have to do is turn off my Paladin Gas block (see pic), by flipping the lever, and she's deathly silent. once we get out into the open soybean fields, I want the full power gut-punching 85 grain TSX's going 3000 FPS, so I turn the lever again, and with addition of a new magazine, I have a totally new gun. think about it....How quiet is an AR suppressed with supersonic ammo? Not REALLY. This gives you the ability to really use the suppressor for it s top-end use. Why not get the ultimate stealth, especially when more shots down the road depend upon same? When you shot supersonic out in the fields, you still protect your hearing, and they are still somewhat confused, but sneaking up and zipping one of these into the neck/head of a 250-300 pounder is breathtaking.....

You're looking at the cut-out area of a VLTOR CASV-EL, which is perfect for gaining access to the lever on the Paladin Adj. gas block. Now you guy s see why I love those HG's so much.






The 9mm means another SBR lower and stamp, learning a whole new set of timing issues, buffers, barrels, projectiles, primers, shell plate, powder, dies, etc. ,etc. I don't have that kind of time or money. This gives me two rifles in on turn of a lever and one magazine selection from the pouch. It takes 10 seconds.

Lastly, the pointy, high BC ballistic silvertip is flatter at that speed than a flying ashtray, and I think it carries more energy downrange, and thus penetrates better.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:55:31 PM EST
I was more or less curious because your sub loads seems to lend credence to the possibility of using a pistol caliber if pressed to do so. Not that it is ideal by any means.

Thanks for taking the time to post this and your info.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:04:48 PM EST
Are your subsonic loads this quite? All you really hear is the hammer striking the firing pin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biNQzdMLrAY

My 300-221 Fireball Ar's are very quite as well and they will cycle the action. They are a bit more noisy because of the action cycling.

320pf
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:09:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By 320pf:
Are your subsonic loads this quite? All you really hear is the hammer striking the firing pin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biNQzdMLrAY

My 300-221 Fireball Ar's are very quite as well and they will cycle the action. They are a bit more noisy because of the action cycling.

320pf



This quite what? Was your question: "Are they quite this quiet?" Sorry, I guess it could just have been juxtaposition of the letters....I am being an ass.


Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that quiet. All you hear is a little snap, and a whizz. Remebmer, this is only 7.2 grains of Trail Boss. The 6.8 is the PERFECT cartridge for subsoinc loads because the 1) parent case is so incredibly efficient, and 2) the complaint has always been that we have had to deal with case volume issues because of bullet length. My mind immediately started racing when I heard that over and over again, and I thought, "hmmmm. heavy, long bullet, taking up lots of case space??.... perfect.....very little case volume left, so with this highly efficient cartridge configuration, I bet I can get a 130 grain bullet going 1000 FPS with 6 or 7 grains of Unique or Trail Boss....that won't even sound like a mouse fart

I was pretty close.

I am using a JET .30 cal titanium can, with a pretty large volume, and the suppression is excellent. The gas is shut off, so you get the same sound as you would in a bolt gun. I could care less about the cycling, but since everyone ruminates about that so much with their 9mm's and .300 whispers and .22LR's, I have now purchased a 12 inch pistol gas barrel, and will have a cycling subsonic 6.8 for all you guys in the near future.

Will it be this quiet? I doubt it. The exercise was ULTIMATE stealth, not getting it to cycle. If the ejection port opens it will allow more sound out, just form the noise generated by the bolt itself, as you know.

but, to those who have heard it go off, they look at me like this:
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