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Posted: 3/9/2010 2:13:26 PM EST
Before you answer with .270, it is for my daughter who is 100 lbs soaking wet. Does the .243 have enough power to get the job done on Wyo Mulies?
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:17:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:18:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:18:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:20:57 PM EST
I know she would love to use her AR-15, she isn't a fan of recoil either, so a .243 would be more accurate for her.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:33:05 PM EST
There is no doubt the .243 will do the job and is very shootable. That said, I'd pick the .270 personally. The recoil is not that bad and I believe you safely allow more potential to the hunt. My daughter was shooting .308/30-06 rifles at 10-11 years old and shooting well (she was smallish) and able to consistently hit small targets out to 300 yards.

My belief is either caliber kills cleanly when hits and bullets are correct, the 270 allows a little more kill zone over a wider distance. No slam meant on the 243, I just would go bigger for the chance the world record mulie presents itself at a long range- it could happen.

If both rifles are available, let her shoot each with a hot,heavy ammo. If she can handle herself with either, edge her toward the bigger gun and explain why.

Enjoy the daughter and that hunt either way. Will be one that you'll both cherish Good luck...
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 2:52:16 PM EST
I would choose a .270 over a .243 for mule deer. They can get pretty big.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:04:47 PM EST
.243 was the first rifle I ever shot, when I was lighter than your daughter, it is a good caliber, and more than sufficient for any kind of Deer, it is also more manageable that .270 in the recoil department for youths and women (and some men who don't seem to be able to handle recoil )

Get her a nice .243, up grade it when she is older, if she wants to
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:08:06 PM EST
She has shot my .270, she just doesn't like the recoil, so I figured I could pick up a .243 and she would shoot it better.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:44:51 PM EST
Look into the 25 calibers. The 250 Savage is a very effective light recoiling round. The 257 Roberts and the 25-06 are also very calibers.


Check the link in this section:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=23&t=633382
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:49:33 PM EST
I have used a 257 Roberts for multiple New Mexico muleys and have had very good luck as well as with a 6.8SPC bolt gun usig 110gr Barnes.

I recently decided to go with a fairly light weight 25-06AI. I would get her a 25-06 and down load it to low recoil. When she gets bigger and can handle more gun start loading the 25-06 to full power loads.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:49:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By 320pf:
Look into the 25 calibers. The 250 Savage is a very effective light recoiling round. The 257 Roberts and the 25-06 are also very calibers.


Check the link in this section:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=23&t=633382


Hmm...
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:53:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By cruizer:
I have used a 257 Roberts for multiple New Mexico muleys and have had very good luck as well as with a 6.8SPC bolt gun usig 110gr Barnes.

I recently decided to go with a fairly light weight 25-06AI. I would get her a 25-06 and down load it to low recoil. When she gets bigger and can handle more gun start loading the 25-06 to full power loads.


If you have access to reloading equipment I agree. You can also use 100 g factory loads. The recoil with the 100 g loads is much less than the 120 g loads
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:01:12 PM EST
I think the 80gr Barnes Tipped Triple Shock loaded fairly hot would still be very low recoil and do very well on Muleys

80gr bullet at 3500-3600fps should do the trick with the Barnes bullet
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:01:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 4:29:44 PM EST by 320pf]
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
I know she would love to use her AR-15, she isn't a fan of recoil either, so a .243 would be more accurate for her.


combat45acp,

I build a 25-223 wildcat that runs really sweet in an AR. The ballistics are similar to the 257 Kimber. From a 16-inch barrel I can push a 100 g Speer or Sierra BT to 2550 to 2600 fps. I like the Sierra 90 GK better though... they will go about 2700 fps. They knock the hell out of a deer

From a 20-in barrel I can pick up an additional 50 to 100 fps, depending of the bullet weight.

As far as recoil goes. It is similar to the Ar shooting 77g MK's
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:21:35 PM EST
For a girl that size, I recommend a .243. It will get the job done on any mule deer, and the low recoil will help her be a better marksman.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 2:29:41 AM EST
Even though I won't argue against the 243 with premium bullets I'd be tempted to have her try a 25 cal as well if you know someone with one.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:42:26 AM EST
I plan to order the gun new, so caliber is no problem, I was leaning towards the .243 because I have the brass laying around in my shop....thinking of the .25's now though I have to say.

Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:25:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 5:27:30 AM EST by 320pf]
Check out the Savage Weather Warrior series. They are a fairly light rifle at ~7lbs. You can get this rifle in 250 Savage. The Savage Accu-trigger is very nice as well.

Weather Warrior

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/16FHSS

The 25 cal bullet is a larger diameter bullet, so it is more effective than the .244" bullet and the recoil is pretty much the same as the 243 Win.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:26:42 AM EST
In the hands of an experienced shooter/hunter, a .243 "can" be effective with proper shot placement with a well-designed bullet.

The .270 delivers a bigger pill with more behind it; which lends it to better "let air in, and blood out..." giving a little more leniency to shot placement. Although, it can be a little uncomfortable for most smaller shooters.

Going a little off the reservation here, I lean toward the 7mm-08 (even .308) for a less experienced shooter of smaller stature, keeping in mind to limit shot range to their experience capabilities.

YMMV
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 7:36:06 AM EST
The .243 will do just fine, IF proper bullets are used. I have seen the outstanding results of the 85 Grain Barnes TSX used by little 12 year old gal on our Texas Panhandle lease. She has taken one nice Mule Deer and about half a dozen Whitetails (Bucks & Does) with a .243. Plus a couple of Whitetails with a .223 with 60 Grain Partitions when she was 8 & 9 years old, before she was moved up to the .243 a couple of years ago.

She practices a lot & her dad started her with rifles that she could shoot well and didn't scare her into flinching by forcing her to use a larger rifle. A proper .243 bullet placed in the vitals will do just fine. Poor placement, due to a flinch, will negate any possible advantage a larger cartridge may provide.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 8:41:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 8:43:46 AM EST by supremeweasel67]
Seems everyone has given you some great advice.

I personally believe that the 243 will kill any mule deer or whitetail with PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT and PROPER BULLET SELECTION, the same as a 270.

As for bullets, I am fond of the Winchester Ballistic SilverTips. I am amazed at how well they perform.
I have never used them, but saw first hand how the Fusions performed. I took a Wounded Soldier on a hunt, and watched him make a 197 yard shot with a 243 with the fusions. DRT!!!!!!!!! No steps, just collapsed!!!

We got up to it, and could not find any blood, rolled the buck over, and still no blood.
Went to field dress him, and looked like someone had taken a chain saw to his insides.

Now, I agree that the 270 does have a slight advantage over the 243, and that is distance. But not that significant.
If the recoil is the main concern, and you want the 270, look at getting the reduced load by Remington and also getting a Sims butt pad to slip on the gun (reduces recoil by 70%). It works Trust me.

I have hunted with numerous calibers over the years. I picked up a little Remington 700 synthetic stock 243 about 3 years ago. I find myself using it more every year. It has done the job on Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee whitetails, Georgia hogs, and some coyotes here and there. Nice lightweight, short, easy shooting gun. I have it zeroed to 150 yards, as that is my normal max. shooting distance for our property. However I have shot further with it.

As someone else has mentioned, let her try each gun and see which one she likes. We did this with my cousin's boy, and he choose the 243. I have seen to many kids turned off from shooting because the were forced to shot something they did not want to shoot. (Don't be a sissy).

Now I can not believe no one mentioned this being AR15.com. You mentioned she liked the AR15, Why not possibly build you an AR in 243. Would be a win win for both of you.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 12:11:50 PM EST
all this talk and not one mention of 260 rem. or 7mm-08, throw in managed recoil loads from remington and you are set for many years and many species.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 12:24:52 PM EST
I know you did not ask about it but, in my guns, the 6.5 Swede is a first rate gun!

Light recoil, accurate, good down range ballistics!

Just sayin.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 12:46:09 PM EST
Ok, what little .243 brass I have, I'm willing to toss out of the picture. What would be the best lite recoiling mule deer round. Yep I just asked.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:11:41 PM EST
two posts up
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:30:15 PM EST
Since she likes her AR why not a 6.8 SPC upper? Recoil is not much more than a 5.56 and she already knows the rifle.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 2:41:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Since she likes her AR why not a 6.8 SPC upper? Recoil is not much more than a 5.56 and she already knows the rifle.


Thought that, wasn't sure about recoil and ballistics. Hear guys talking about 6.8 a lot, guess i should start paying attention.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 2:46:45 PM EST
proper bullet placement and selection like everyone already said. .243 is GTG
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 3:16:17 PM EST
243 with a bonded bullet in the 90-100 grn range. Anyone that says its not enough gun needs to educate themselves a little more.
Link Posted: 3/11/2010 1:52:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
243 with a bonded bullet in the 90-100 grn range. Anyone that says its not enough gun needs to educate themselves a little more.


yep.
Link Posted: 3/11/2010 10:35:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By bowslngr:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
243 with a bonded bullet in the 90-100 grn range. Anyone that says its not enough gun needs to educate themselves a little more.


You are correct. Every year I shoot a Mulie Buck in Eastern Washington Canyon lands with the Rem Core Lokts in 100gr. Shots vary from 50 yards -350yds. I have -06, 7mm Mag and 308's and I always end up taking the 243. Gun's light and handy and does the job. It's a great round.

Link Posted: 3/12/2010 5:38:22 PM EST
The 243 will work fine with the correct bullet. One thing you SHOULD do however is that when you are at the range have her practice quick follow up shots. Make a game out of it at the range. Explain to her that even with MUCH bigger rounds experienced hunters use the same practice. Explain to her that even with bigger rounds the deer don`t always just "drop in their tracks" With a bit of practice (NEVER with more than two rounds in the gun) She should be able to get pretty fast with the follow up shot. Snap caps are available in 243 which would allow practice at home too.
Link Posted: 3/12/2010 5:53:09 PM EST
Keeping her comfortably shooting and enjoying it would be my first priority. The .243 is a very powerful round that is more than enough for Mule deer in capable hands. It is easy to dismiss the .243 because there are so many loads that are larger. (Almost everything in centerfire is larger). And larger is what you're trying to avoid to keep her happy.

The .243 has a pretty wide range of loads to choose from. And I would imagine that loads with 55 grain bullets would produce very light recoils. If you're reloading yourself you can let her get tons of practice with 55 grain bullets and gradually introduce her to the 80 or 100 grain bullets. Or do like some of the other guys said and load them light to begin with.

I shoot mainly 150 grain bullets in .30-06 for deer hunting. If I plan on Elk hunting I practice and hunt with 200 or 220 grain bullets. This 25% increase in bullet weight seems insignificant except for the added recoil. Trust me, the felt recoil does not feel like 25% more. To me, this is where the practice is not enjoyable anymore.

I assume you'll be with her constantly while she is hunting. You will know her capability and what her loads are and prevent her from taking a shot that is beyond either her or the guns ability.

If little girl ain't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. I know, I've got two daughters myself.
Link Posted: 3/13/2010 10:32:15 AM EST
both .243 and .270 are so boring.
i work at a gun shop and i hate when people come in and ask for those two rounds.
be creative, have fun, build something special.
.260, 7mm-08, .257roberts, 6.5 swede, 25-06.
have we decided on a brand of rifle? considered tikka at about $500? whats the budget? enough for a sako A7?
Link Posted: 3/13/2010 11:40:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
both .243 and .270 are so boring.
i work at a gun shop and i hate when people come in and ask for those two rounds.
be creative, have fun, build something special.
.260, 7mm-08, .257roberts, 6.5 swede, 25-06.
have we decided on a brand of rifle? considered tikka at about $500? whats the budget? enough for a sako A7?


I hunt with an old Sako Fibear Deluxe, would like to keep it under $500. Tikka could be an option, as price is a tad flexible, plus we are FFL's so we get good deals.
Link Posted: 3/13/2010 12:00:31 PM EST
Why not get the 270 and load it down? When she gets older she can have full power rounds.
Link Posted: 3/13/2010 12:20:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2010 12:39:14 PM EST by combat45acp]
Originally Posted By jcncc:
Why not get the 270 and load it down? When she gets older she can have full power rounds.


100 or even 90 gr 270 seem to kick a lot more than the .243. I would rather buy another rifle in the future, gives me a good excuse to buy more guns.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 2:24:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By captainkoontz:
all this talk and not one mention of 260 rem. or 7mm-08, throw in managed recoil loads from remington and you are set for many years and many species.



+1 If you are buying a new rifle, I would look at the Remington Model 7 in either 260 Rem or 7mm-08 I think the .260 Rem is the perfect caliber for recoil sensitive shooters, especially if you hand load.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 11:02:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/19/2010 11:04:07 AM EST by JWP58]
I have shot one deer with my .243, and after seeing the results i think it would be a great choice.

I used a 100gr power point, 160yd shot, deer was dead in its tracks. WHY? Because i am very familiar with that weapon
and placed the round exactly where i wanted it/needed it.

As long as you keep the distance to something SHE is comfortable with, and have her practice, all should go well.
Link Posted: 4/26/2010 5:28:08 PM EST
The 243 is a great cartridge if you use the right bullet, if the shot placement is perfect, if the wind isn't blowing, if its not too hot, if its not too cold and if you hold your mouth right just right. Go to a 257 or a 6.5.
Link Posted: 4/26/2010 6:08:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By combat45acp:
Ok, what little .243 brass I have, I'm willing to toss out of the picture. What would be the best lite recoiling mule deer round. Yep I just asked.

For a factory off the shelf rifle, I'd get a Remington Model Seven in .260 Remington.

If I had the funds, I'd get a CZ-527 and send it off to GA Precision to have it chambered in 6.5mm PPC and made as light as possible.

D(Yeah,I'mA6.5mmFanBoy)Peacher
Link Posted: 4/27/2010 6:59:27 PM EST
thanks for all the input, we ordered a .243 Weatherby Vanguard. Now to scope it!
Link Posted: 4/28/2010 8:20:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
thanks for all the input, we ordered a .243 Weatherby Vanguard. Now to scope it!


I'm coming in to late, I was going to suggest that she try the Remington Managed Recoil rounds in your .270. I had my younger son shooting the Remington MR loads in my .30-06 when he was 11. It had less felt recoil then a .30-30. I would think the .270 MR loads would be similar.


Oh well, scope I say a nice 2-7x would be perfect. Burris, Nikon, Pentex, Leopold all make nice scopes in that range.
Link Posted: 4/28/2010 6:46:20 PM EST
Ya we are Luepold fans here.
Link Posted: 7/10/2010 1:28:11 AM EST
A 6.5 Swede would be ideal. There are lots of factory loads out there. It is a very mild cartridge and one that your daughter would likely actually enjoy shooting. I could hunt mule deer here in the Rockies for the rest of my life with a 6.5 Swede and be completely happy. I am willing to bet she could handle the Swede.

I have a .260, which is a great kids gun, as well as adults, but it is mostly a handloaders cartridge, as factory offerings are somewhat limited.
Link Posted: 7/10/2010 1:58:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
I plan to order the gun new, so caliber is no problem, I was leaning towards the .243 because I have the brass laying around in my shop....thinking of the .25's now though I have to say.



.243+ BARNES TSX=deer death

Seriously I have heard of guys making barnes tsx loads for their 22-250 to let the wife Muley Hunt. Although I wouldn't quite recomend that, a .243 will be more than adequate.
My son who is 7 took his first deer last year with my .223 AR and a 70grn barnes tsx handload. Complete pass through with lots of hemmoraging. Ask others who have used barnes in the light calibers and you will get the same response––-they work!!!

My father who always uses a 7mm rem mag, helped me skin and quarter my son's deer last year. After seeing the results he commented that he may just want to start using a little .223 himself.

I have killed many, many deer with a .243 some northern MO deer well over 200lbs on the hoof. That was before I had the barnes awakening.
Link Posted: 7/10/2010 2:00:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By shadawick:
I know you did not ask about it but, in my guns, the 6.5 Swede is a first rate gun!

Light recoil, accurate, good down range ballistics!

Just sayin.


I do have a old sporterized Mauser in that caliber that is just a blast to hunt with, but I'm partial to the .243!!

Link Posted: 7/11/2010 5:52:42 AM EST
.243 = Any load with 85 gr. Barnes TSX

.270 = Remington 115 gr. Managed Recoil

I guess the problem becomes which rifle she wants to carry all day.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 4:47:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2010 4:47:51 PM EST by HAGDADDY]
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
thanks for all the input, we ordered a .243 Weatherby Vanguard. Now to scope it!


Good choice. The 243 will kill mule deer just fine. For scopes you might check out the Redfields. I just picked up a new 3-9 Redfield and am very pleased. On par with my Burris Fullfields and the Leupold VX1 in my opinion for a very reasonable price. I would have no problems buying another Redfield. Just a few more years and I will have my daughter out deer hunting with me.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 5:03:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By combat45acp:

thanks for all the input, we ordered a .243 Weatherby Vanguard. Now to scope it!


A little gal on our lease is shooting a .243 & her Dad put a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 on it for her. The eye relief is a solid 4" & it stays the same through the magnification range. It is important to keep her eye away from the scope, even with a .243. One split eyebrow will cause a lot of trouble with flinching.

Here's a link to a place that sells them. Call & speak with Doug. These guys have sold a BUNCH of scopes & binos to the guys over on 24hourcampfire.com Deal with confidence. Looks like they have a demo for 369.99. It's outstanding glass & this is coming from a Leupold junkie! The eye relief for a kid is the big selling point of this scope, IMO.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/zeiss.pl?page=521460
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