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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/18/2012 5:28:19 PM EST
I keep coming back to my M1 carbines as truck/get home guns. I can carry twice as many mags in the same space as I could AR mags. I can hit a pepper popper sized target at 100 yards pretty easily. They are very lightweight. I realize it fires a 357 Magnum equivilant round, but hit probability goes way up in the carbine platform. It is way quieter than my other candidate, my 11.5" SBR AR15, Anyone else consider the M1 carbine in this role?
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:38:50 PM EST
Pretty good choice. In case it is stolen or found by law enforcement, less bad ju-ju than a SBR, or a normal AR.

My only concern would be reliability. Has it been reliable for you? Do you have a mix of soft point and FMJ loads?
Another good point, the carbine is a great gun to learn on, I love to teach women and kids how to shoot with it, so if you are traveling with people and get a better gun, you can transfer the carbine to almost anyone.

I use an AK, because it was a cheaper buy than my M-1 carbine. And has a smaller size in my trunk with a soft case and mag setup.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:59:30 PM EST
The carbine will work well provided you do one thing: Use the correct ammunition.

The M1 Carbine is a miserable little round when used with the FMJ rounds. They do not have sufficient speed to ever remotely achieve fragmentation, and simply do not work well. If you stick to decent jacketed soft point bullets, you'll see good expansion and decent terminal ballistics.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:18:49 PM EST
honeslty, my perfect get home/ truck gun, would be the under folder ak-47. IF, IF, IF i could still buy them at $300-$400 bucks. at the current prices, they do not look so good.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:21:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 5:05:58 AM EST by Boomer]
I think there are better, more practical choices. I can appreciate running what you have, but an M1 Carbine would be fairly far down my list of candidates for the role of trunk gun. First and foremost, the .30 Carbine offers what can be best described as anemic ballistics when compared to more modern intermediate military cartridges. Then my own M1 is a USGI model so it has some historical value that I would not want to see affected by leaving it in the extremes that a car interior can entail. And I care about it enough that I would not want to lose it to confiscation in the aftermath of having to use it defensively.

If I'm willing to settle for the equivalent of handgun performance, I might as well just carry a handgun. For something the size of a rifle/crabine, I expect rifle performance.

Something like a Saiga 7.62x39 carbine seems ideal for the role of a trunk gun. Relatively inexpensive, non-descript/not scary looking, AK reliability, ability to use standard AK mags with minor modification, decently powerful cartridge, no historical/collector value, disposable. Just a plain tool that you don't have to care too much about. Like a Glock.

Behind that I would not feel undergunned with a lever action 30-30 as a trunk gun, which you could get really cheap.

But if an M1 Carbine is all you've got, it's better than nothing.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:31:14 PM EST
It's very popular in that application. The GIs of the day preferred Thompsons, IIRC. Not sure of your basis for comparison to .357. IF it's based on kinetic energy, remember identical KEs at different bullet weights are not always comparable. Momentum and sectional density also count, and bullet construction.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:32:36 PM EST
They are fun, there's no taking that away. However, there are some shortcomings:
-extractors break and they are a major pain to swap
-the universal clones are prone to slide cracking
-scope mounting blows
-3 to 4 moa

There are better choices for the money, but it will get the job done.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:32:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 6:34:02 PM EST by EXPY37]
OK, pros and cons re Thompson 1921's vs M1C?


Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:40:42 PM EST
I love my little Rockola M1, partly because my Dad gave it to me, partly because it is a fun gun to shoot. The ballistics of the M1 really aren't really that bad, on par with a .357 Magnum or a bit better, though without the wide selection in bullet weights and types unless you hand load. Mine's also dead reliable, though I've never used anything but 15 round magazines in it.

The biggest problem is that the ammo is very expensive, again unless you hand load. Also, unless it is a beat to hell gun, it's probably worth more than I would want in a truck gun.

I like the idea that the guy above said, AK-47 underfolder. Compact, reliable, beefier cartridge, and dirt cheap to run.


Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:46:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
OK, pros and cons re Thompson 1921's vs M1C?





Assuming both are semiauto, the only the thing the 1921 has going for it is easy and cheaper ammo availability. A Thompson is heavy as hell and while the .45ACP round has stopping power it is a low velocity round and hence has limited range. Aside from the nostalgia of having a Thompson 1921, I can't think of a practical reason to actually use one. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind owning one, it just would make a far less practical truck gun than even a M1 Carbine.

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:49:31 PM EST
'21 is FA.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 7:28:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
'21 is FA.


Even considering it being FA, I'm not sure I'd go with the Thompson. Still is heavy as hell, still shooting a low velocity round. I guess if you figure you're going to see some close quarters combat and need suppressing fire then I'd pick it over the M1 Carbine, but it's just not that practical of a a gun in my opinion. And I think most people over rate the utility of FA in a SHTF situation. I think you'd be better served with a lighter gun with a higher velocity round as it would be better suited to putting food on the table at some point, which is what I think you're really going to be doing with it mostly if you've planned well.

Very interesting question comparing these two guns. The biggest downside to the M1 in my opinion is that the ammunition is not readily available. Likewise on the Thompson the biggest (maybe even only) upside is the wide availability of .45 ACP.

I pick C - AK-47, in underfolder if you need to save the space. But I'd have no quarrel with anyone picking a AR-15. If you want a cheap truck gun to get home with, a 12 ga pump makes a hell of a noise that will tighten up most sphincters when you rack a round.



Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:52:28 AM EST
An M1C would make a fine TGHG if you are comfortable with it and can operate it accurately. Chances are good you will be avoiding trouble.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:25:58 AM EST
Very light, to carry. can carry lots of ammo, with folding stock very concealable for a walk home if needed. You would be in defensive role so 200+ yd engagements is not a concern as you could run the other way. with stock pouch and mag clamps you can carry 90 rnds on the gun itself with no adverse weight effects i.e. if you have to bail and run with only grabbing the rifle you are 90 rnds ahead of the game, where an AR/Ak shooter is only 60 in same scenario. Shoot someone in the face with a .30 carbine (no matter bullet type) and it will ruin their whole day. Give them two or three to the chest with same affects.

I saw a training video of a crazy guy engage a cop and win in a very bloody way. the carbine is no slouch for close quarter battle. Are there better, well of course, it is after all 75 years later with many improvements in bullet and gun design. But is it good for truck /trunk gun use. Heck yeah if that is what you have and are comfortable with. My first deer kill was a one shot stop (5 steps and dead) at 110 yds.

The negatives or things to think about? Expense; truck guns should (in my opinion) be something you are willing to lose, M1 carbines are about $500 and up. bullet performance; a 200+ yd gun it is not so dont expect that. Ammo price is kinda high but...whats your life worth?

I say use it if you got it. I have one and to be quite frank would not hesitate to use it in self defense. My tuck gun is a Mosin Nagant M44 with 100 rds on bandoleer. got it for $80 and theyre still about $200.

Good luck
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:51:26 AM EST
It is not a bad choice for the role you are trying to make it fit in. You are not going to be attacking entrenched hordes of zombies, or fighting off aliens. you don't really need much in the way of range either. 100 yards is probably quite adequate. they are pretty reliable, although the ammo can be a little more expensive these days as over the years the cartridge has gotten less popular.

it has the advantage of being a little more under the radar than a black rifle. that might or might not matter in your situation.

personally, I am not a fan of keeping a firearm in a vehicle on an ongoing basis. but that is a personal decision.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:19:09 AM EST
Im reading all the responses and see lots of ak's........does your scenario include a total collapse of law enforcement ?? If not you wont make it far humpin an AK...........30-.30 would raise alot less alarms
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:24:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By buck19delta:
IF i could still buy them at $300-$400 bucks. at the current prices, they do not look so good.


Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:30:32 AM EST
Considering the expected limited range and optics limitations, any reason not to go with a used Mini-14 in stock configuration? Similar ergonomics, aftermarket folders still available, more effective rifle caliber, still "Fudd-friendly" if that's a concern.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:41:58 AM EST
An M1 Carbine with a folding stock is a good choice IMO. I would not rely on a commercial copy unless and until it was proven reliable. The commercial Carbines have a variety of problems. I would not use a Universal under any circumstances.

Use good JSP or JHP ammo that feeds in your gun. All three of my Carbines like Remington 110 grain JSP loads. Jim Cirrillo of the NYPD Stakeout Squad liked the Winchester 110 grain jacket hollow-soft point. According to Dr. Gary Roberts, the Remington load performs as well in ballistic gelatin as the best 5.56mm loads.

This is my truck gun for long trips, a 1943 Underwood:


I do not leave the gun in the truck all the time.

The stock is an Italian made replica of the M1A1 paratrooper stock. From a purely functional standpoint, a Choate would be better. since I took the picture I replaced the handguard with an Ultimak rail and installed a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot sight.

The case is a USGI surplus M-60 barrel bag. The Carbine fits perfectly and I can carry ammo and a cleaning kit in the outside pockets. No padding, though.

Keep in mind, too, that all USGI M1 Carbines were made 1941 - 1945. Virtually all are mixmasters when it comes to parts, and may need parts or springs replaced. I would recommend replacing the recoil spring at a minimum, if you don't know the gun's history. Wolff sells good replacement springs.

Stick with 15 round mags for best reliability. If you want to use 30 rounders, make sure your Carbine has an M2 magazine catch, which has a small leg on the left side for additional support. The newly made Korean mags seem good.

If you own an M1 Carbine, you should have a copy of The U.S. .30 Caliber Gas Operated Carbines: A Shop Manual.

As an aside, I wish people would stop using the abbreviation "M1C" for the M1 Carbine. This is an M1C:



Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:53:49 AM EST
One warning. Personally I haven't found any aftermarket 30 round clips to be reliable. I do like the USGI 15 rounders.

Buy spares while you can.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:00:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By uncool:
Im reading all the responses and see lots of ak's........does your scenario include a total collapse of law enforcement ?? If not you wont make it far humpin an AK...........30-.30 would raise alot less alarms


I did mention that as well.

I don't think this is going to draw any more attention than any other magazine fed semi-automatic rifle, either:

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:22:26 AM EST
No flies on the M1 and as far as stopping power it all depends who you talk to. Using Remington hollow points it's very good. Many malign ball ammo but a few gazillion dead people can't be all wrong. I remember watching an interview of a CMOH recipient recount his use of the M1 saying he killed 7-10 Germans assaulting his position with his and it only took 1 round each! If yours runs I say roll with it!
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:25:13 AM EST
The Nazi's loved the M-1 Carbine's they captured.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:35:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
OK, pros and cons re Thompson 1921's vs M1C?



It would be cheaper to keep a few wads of $100 bills in the truck, and throw those at the MZB's
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:37:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 7:38:53 AM EST by SteelonSteel]
OK, here's another man's two cents worth;

pro's- the carbine is a dream to carry, it's extra light weight, a fast pointer and very reliable with the 15 round magazines or Usgi 30 round mags.
it's enough gun to defend yourself from threats 100-150 yards away, 200 might be pushing it despite the markings on the rear sight. As I recall the Remington Soft points are the rounds of choice in the ammo box of truth thingy.

con's- a usgi example to me is too valuable to be a truck gun, it's a $800-1500 gun depending on condition, originality, and heelstamp. A proven, well made knock off using mostly USGI parts is what I'd risk leaving in a truck. The later ones with the poorly cut safety bridges and open skeleton op rod sockets are to be avoided in my opinion.

As someone else said before, a mini 14 folder or plain wood stock could serve the same purpose. The older .30-30's are even getting up in value enough so that I wouldn't leave one in the truck. If the lightweight desire could be overlooked I'd say an ishapore .308 enfield rifle, 10 shots, fast cycling, plenty of power, low cost but decidedly not lightweight. The AK and SKS are known for chrome bores, an SKS might be a fine truck gun to deal with the forgotten periods of heat, humidity, etc.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:38:28 AM EST
I would vote ak but your not to far off. My grandpa got through ww2 and Korea with his, now I have it. Still runs like a top. It must be deadly enough. He has 16 notches in this stock and he said he broke the original when he parachuted across the Rhine river. I asked him once how many notches the other stock had. He would only say enough that he was running out of space. When I heard that I thought it was BS but he did have 3 bronze stars and 2 Purple Hearts.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:42:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:

As an aside, I wish people would stop using the abbreviation "M1C" for the M1 Carbine. This is an M1C:



+1
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:07:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:35:55 AM EST
I carry one at the ranch (ususally). A good firearm (IMHO) if you have one but there are probably better choices out there for a variety of reasons (strictly a personal choice). I have loaded FMJ, semi-jacket hollow points and lead rounds with good results within the range of the round. Just for information: at 100 yards, the lead rounds (115 gr. with Accurate #9) penerated (very easily) 8 guage steel (old water heaters). I have shot these things since I was a kid and love how it handles.
Just my .02 worth .............................
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:46:19 AM EST
I have my keltec su16 and 3 mags tucked neatly under a seat. Get me home bitch.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:41:41 PM EST
Unless it's a universal I wouldn't chance loosing it to theft, the origionals are too valuable imo.

But for under 100 yds it has the same punch of the .223, soft points will geter done.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:59:00 PM EST
i think there are better choices than an M1 carbine. I would opt for a sks or mini 14
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:46:50 PM EST
i had some 2" thick "bullet proof glass" from a bank remodel. 30 carbine blew right through it and made a 2 1/2" hole. opened my eyes that there is more here than I thought. handgun rounds just bounced off.
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