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Posted: 11/26/2007 12:31:17 PM EDT

Looking for a pack that could handle this. I’m sure its missing some very important stuff and have some things that aren’t needed. My goal is to have a pack that could support me for up to or longer than a month. I have a way to continue to gather fresh water, but food might be a little trickier. I’m sure I could hunt with the Ruger and live off small game, but if there are other options I would like to hear them. This bag is if the shit REALLY hits the fan. Also would it be a good idea to maybe bring some small things that you would be willing to barter with? Alright here is my idea of what I might need please critique and offer your incite.

Shelter
Small tent or bivy sack weighing less than 2 pounds
0 degree sleeping bag

Food
Enough food for 2 weeks only eating 2 meals a day

Water
Camelback 72oz and two Nalgene bottles
Tables and water purification system

Clothes
2 pairs of sock
1 pair of underwear
1 under armor cold gear shirt
1 t-shirt
1 heavy shirt
1 gortex jacket

Supplies
Knife fixed blade
Multi-tool
Flashlight
Box of strike anywhere matches
Bic lighter
Flint and striker
Bag of dyer lint
Handsaw
Map of local area
First aid kit
Radio
Extra batteries for everything
Para cord
100 mile an hour tape
Whisper light international stove with one full bottle of gas
Medication
Pen and pencil
Spoon and pot
Two 55 gallon trash bags
Space blanket
Compass
Zip ties
Small candle lantern and two spare candles
Two bandanas

Weapons
Ruger Mark II with 500 rounds
AR-15 with 5 to 10 mags

So how many cubic inches do you think we are talking about here? I was looking at the Kifaru MMR with 4200 CI. Obviously all this stuff won’t be going in the pack itself but could be attached on the outside using molle pouches. Thanks for any input.
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 1:28:51 PM EDT


This bag is if the shit REALLY hits the fan.


i think you are trying to arrive at a solution before defining the problem.

-- what is your overall SHTF bug-out strategy?
-- do you have a BOL which is somewhere within a week's walk?
-- or do you plan to walk out into the woods and live out of your pack?
-- how far (total miles) do you plan to walk with this pack, over what duration?
-- will there be others with you, immediate famlily etc? (for example, you only need to carry one stove for 4 people)
-- what kind of shape are you in?
-- what kind of shape are others who are coming with you in?
-- what prior "heavy pack" hiking/tabbing have you done? (.mil etc)

ps:
(1)
i did not see any toiletries whatsoever -- soap, hand sanitizer, dental care, etc.

(2)
what kind of radio?
what kind of flashlight?
battery commonality?

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 3:54:01 PM EDT

Well lets say I was just going to walk out into the woods and live because I think that would be the hardest possible way to live. I would most likely be on my own, but who knows, however if someone was with me they would have to fend for themselves and wouldn't be using my supplies. I have done quite a bit of backpacking in the blueridge and rocky mountains. Right now im in arkansas so it would be more simalar to the blueridge. The longest hike I ever went on was 12 miles in one day with a 50lbs pack and enough supplies for two days. Im still in the same shape now so I would expect that I could do anywhere from 10 to 15 miles a day with a pack twice as heavy with enough energy and water intake. I figure a pack like the one I was thinking about would be about 120 to 150lbs including weapons and ammo. But If I found a place I liked in the Ozark mountains I could settle there and there are some small towns scattered all around that I could go to if a need arose. Thanks for mentioning tolietries I didn't think about that. What kind of dental care are you referring to, just tooth brush and paste or something else? Things that use batteries will be AA and one of the flashlights will also be 123 lithium. Thanks for your help keep it coming guys.
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 5:09:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigtex84:
I figure a pack like the one I was thinking about would be about 120 to 150lbs including weapons and ammo.


ok, i have to ask.

how tall are you, how much do you weigh, and what would you consider your physique type?

ps: if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 11/26/2007 6:44:44 PM EDT
If you have a BOL, cache the ammo there. If you have to have excessive ammo available, carry it in a drop leg to get the weight off of your hips. The rest of your gear should weigh less than 85 lbs. Your gear list should fit in a 5500ci pack. If you're in a dry climate, you can go with a smaller pack and strap stuff to the outside. If your going to carry that much weight for extended periods of time, I suggest going to a local outdoor shop and get a pack properly fitted for your build.

Oh, and don't forget the axe and sharpening stone.
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 7:17:15 PM EDT
Im 6.2 235lbs and would consider myself to be in good shape, right now im inbetween jobs I was working at a ranch in Colorado and right now im in the middle of the application process at my local PD. Sorry Im kinda new to this what is a BOL? Im in a fairly dry climate so I will strap some of my gear on the oustide of my pack. And as for custom fitting i think that Kifaru does that, Does anyone have experience with there MMR model? Is an axe really needed my fixed blade knife is a Busse and can handle quite a bit of abuse like copping logs. Thanks guys keep it coming.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:16:50 AM EDT
a long term bob, for me would not be a hikable set up. it would be more for a BOV or BOH( new term bug out horse?)
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:20:05 AM EDT
Thats a good point I do have a 16.3 hand belgium draft horse
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:49:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:

Originally Posted By bigtex84:
I figure a pack like the one I was thinking about would be about 120 to 150lbs including weapons and ammo.


ok, i have to ask.

how tall are you, how much do you weigh, and what would you consider your physique type?

ps: if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?

ar-jedi





With what you listed etc. you wont want it on your back. No flame or nothing but humping a load like that under stress, sick, on the move, in a BO style set up wont be easy.
Backpacking and doinga on foot BO are two different beast.
take your est time and double it. That means more of that weight on your back.

For a long hual BOB youll never be able to carry enough h20 or food. The best bet is to skimp on your "other" gear and make do with minimalist tsuff while still being able to maintain some defensive/offensive stuff( your weapons load out.)


as to the body shape etc. doesnt really matter ,its a matter of if you can handle the load and be in shape to do so. SO if your gonna pack alarge pack wear it and use it.
just pick a good pack and get fitted for it.

YMMV
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:58:45 AM EDT
As for long term food you will do much better trapping then hunting.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 9:04:17 AM EDT

SO if your gonna pack alarge pack wear it and use it.
just pick a good pack and get fitted for it.

YMMV

What kinda of pack would you recommend Im looking for one that I can attach molle pouches to. I have been looking at the Kifaru MMR, its very pricey but havent found another one like it. So if anyone has experience with this pack please tell me about it.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 12:58:01 PM EDT
Your most important tool will be knowledge. You think you are going to pack two weeks of food? No way. Its pointless and unrealistic, you will need to hunt and gather and trap. You will need to have the knowledge on what you can eat, how to stay healthy, and if you dont know these things, you will die.
Packing stuff for other than food and water will not be difficult, but the consumables will be what you will need hunting/trapping tools and skills for.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 1:42:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 1:44:05 PM EDT by protus]

Originally Posted By bigtex84:
SO if your gonna pack alarge pack wear it and use it.
just pick a good pack and get fitted for it.

YMMV

What kinda of pack would you recommend Im looking for one that I can attach molle pouches to. I have been looking at the Kifaru MMR, its very pricey but havent found another one like it. So if anyone has experience with this pack please tell me about it.


My theroy on things varies from most.

IMHO a BOBis just that not a "mission" specific bag.
YOU buy it,pack it use it. end of story.
Haveing extras to add on(molle) is just that extras. More weight, add'd bulk etc.
You wear your BOB,, and your edc/KISS line 2 and thats it. you hit trouble,, you dump rucks,, and de-ass, retrive your pack later.
If you cant thats your roll of the dice, but youll be alive, instead of dead or worse, from having all your eggs in one basket.

Any pack you buy needs to be fitted to your torso. This is easy and once measured you can find apack thats your size. Most are listed as what size they are or what size torso they fit.

IMHO for a Long haul BOB your looking at 5500ci+ for all climates, and food and gear.
2 weeks of food is ALOT of weight and bulk even with freeze dried.
Mainsaty/daytrex bars are not 2 week food staples. if you think they are , try them for 2 weeks and get back to me.( no flam on you just pointing something out).

Also your pack will be large, and heavy. Can you and do you know 100% for a fact that in varying climtaes you can hump it xxx miles? WHatis your breaking point spped and weight wise.

There is more to just packing a bag. You have to use it.
So no matter what use the bag.


as for brands. I like keltys.. but would rather have a dana or gregory.

kifaru's are nice,, but pricey and well.... i dont care fer them.... thats the nicest thing youll hear me say about them
but if ya got the $$$ and want one,,go for it, i havent heard anyone not be happy with them,
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 2:10:48 PM EDT
I am no expert, but I will give my opinion for whatever its worth.

You won't need 500 rds for the MkII. I would not carry more than 200 max. It isn't a fighting gun and you won't need 10 to 20 rds. per animal if you are any good.

I have taken all my big fighting knives out of my Bug out kits. There is nothing I need to use it for that I can't do with my Leatherman and my Gerber folding saw. I know others think its invaluable, but I am not getting into a knife fight with some dude when I have an AR. I do carry a skeleton handled knife in both my chest rig and H harness. They are good enough to stick through a wind pipe for quick silent work if I accidentally find myself that close.

I consider a tooth brush and small toothpaste essential. It makes me feel much cleaner over all. Nothing like clean mouth and some freshly filtered water with a koolaid single to make it taste good.

You won't be able to carry all that water for long. Drop one of the Nalgene bottles and keep the camelback.

I suggest looking into Fenix lights. A L2D with two extra lithium batteries would give you plenty of run time for a month of low level use. The bright setting is bright and very good quality all around. With this light, you can dump the candles for an extra couple of batteries.

I would trade the two garbage bags and survival blanket for 1 Heat sheets bivy bag.

I also have a light weight shelter on its way from Thereisnospoon. I will post pictures of it when I get it. It will be in my BOB.

Rice is extremely light weight. I use real rice because I prefer the taste and quality. Learn how to cook it effectively before you bug out. I cook 1/2 cup of rice in pre measured vaccum packs with granular chicken bullion, salt, and spices. They weigh about 5 oz each and each one is an entire meal by itself. Great to have a warm hearty meal when your cold and tired.

Mountain house meals are very light weight, and a large meal for not alot of fuss.

I have also bought some small rolls of duct tape instead of a large one. They only weigh a few ounces.

I hope I have aleast hit on something that will help you lighten your load. My BoB weighs 24lbs. for one week kit. By H harness is a heavy 21 lbs. to support my weapons system if I am fighting my way to or away from somewhere. It includes 6 total AR mags and 3 for my XD 45 fire starting equipment and a canteen.

I would feel comfortable saying that my kit would carry me just fine through another 2 or 3 weeks if I added more food.

Carrying water would be terrible so I will have to make frequent stops and I will drink an entire canteen every time I pump more water if I need to, and then fill it up again.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 3:41:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigtex84:
Im 6.2 235lbs and would consider myself to be in good shape, right now im inbetween jobs I was working at a ranch in Colorado and right now im in the middle of the application process at my local PD.


ok, you are relatively young, strong, and used to working outdoors.

as a general rule, in a life/death scenario you can carry about 35% of your body weight on level terrain over a distance of about 7 or 8 miles per day for a few days. so for you, that's (0.3 x 235) = 82 pounds -- total. this is going to really sack you by the end of the second and third days.

note: yes, you can carry heavier loads for shorter distances. however, the chances of injury (acute and chronic) will go up dramatically when carrying really heavy loads long distances. with 100+ pounds on your back, any mistep on uneven terrain can result in a badly sprained ankle or even an ACL tear on your knee. and, with your center of gravity so high, a mistep and a fall is almost inevitable.


Originally Posted By bigtex84:
Sorry Im kinda new to this what is a BOL?


Bug Out Location -- which could be a second house you own somewhere else, a remote plot of land to park your RV or pitch your tent on, a hunting cabin out in the woods, an inlaws or friend's place, or anything else that you consider or could use as a refuge if you had to bug out of your primary home. essentials may or may not be stashed at the BOL -- depends on what structures are there, or what could be buried. a prime BOL would have a source of fresh water, nearby fish and game, and have a structure which is weatherproof and defendable.

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 8:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 8:37:52 PM EDT by paddymurphy]
I have a 5500 ci kelty external that I just bought (price was 150 or 160 but the store had mismarked it with a $90 3200 tag on it and sold it to me at the lower price good move on their part-I bought my new glock there even though it was cheaper at another store and some more preps)and no I am not yet in shape to hump it far but working on it. The reason--120 miles to my bol in colorado tarp shelters work only part of the year. It has only seen limited use but so far so good. I am training with my ghb which is a med alice and am working up to the larger pack(and yes when in service I humped an 85 pound ruck for exercise). Too help cut weight think multi use. A trick we used in the FA was to wrap 100mph(duct) tape around grease pencils that we had to have anyways. This also allowed us to do 1" and 3" strips for different needs. Dental floss is your friend many uses besides flossing. You might also look at a chest rig for mags. And replace the 500 rounds of 22lr with 200 and some snare wire/fishing kit and some gloves. The strike anywheres with REI waterproofs if your area gets lots of rain, high humidity or you are around a lot of water.
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