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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 1/24/2014 6:03:56 AM EDT
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for a Kerosene heater that can burn dyed diesel safely? It needs to be available at Lowes, HD, or Wal-Mart; so it can be purchased today.What do you recommend?

Thank you,
Accountant
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 6:19:18 AM EDT
Umm, if it is a kerosene heater, it burns kerosene. It CAN burn diesel, but fumes will get bad. (Think emergency only).



I highly doubt you will find what you seek at a big box store today.




I advise you to buy a kerosene heater and some kerosene, even if it is the expensive pre-bottled stuff from the store.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 6:36:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 6:38:31 AM EDT by Vinny]
Forced air or just stand alone??  How much space are you looking to heat?

You CAN use diesel in the kerosene heaters but I wouldn't use it for inside the house heating--I'd save that for the barn/workshop etc.... the fumes from the diesel are gonna be quite a bit worse than Kero....
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 6:45:38 AM EDT
FYI...not diesel, but  I used red dyed 1K in my HMN 110 for a month or so last winter.... ;burned the wick clean when I stored it, don't know what long term problems the wick might have, but so far did not have a problem...
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 8:27:44 AM EDT
I bought a kerosene heater.... and found kerosene for $11/gal at Lowe's. No local gas stations have a kerosene pump.

Thanks, EPA. Its for emergency use only.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 8:35:17 AM EDT
Wait, what's wrong with dyed kerosene? I use what i can find. Most recently, I found dyed. Burns the same as non-dyed.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 8:56:58 AM EDT
Diesel is basically kerosene mixed with lubricating oil,  I personally would be concerned with carbon monoxide issues if I were to use it in an enclosed area.  K1 kerosene is available locally for ~$5.00 a gallon so not an issue for me.  I am unaware of dyed kerosene,  diesel fuel is dyed when it is sold for farm or offroad use but it still has the lubricating oil in it.

I would only use clear kerosene however YMMV
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 9:08:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 9:09:27 AM EDT by 86Merk]
Duplicate, sorry
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 9:28:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 9:46:00 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for a Kerosene heater that can burn dyed diesel safely? It needs to be available at Lowes, HD, or Wal-Mart; so it can be purchased today.What do you recommend?

Thank you,
Accountant
View Quote



It's likely going to have to be a vented heater to burn diesel. It won't be available at the box stores you mention.

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
FYI

From Toyo's site...



EXCLUSIVE!!


TOYOTOMI Heaters* are the only Direct Vent Heaters available that are Manufacturer approved to operate with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in addition to K-1 Kerosene and No. 1 Fuel Oil.

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) has no more than 15ppm (parts per million) of sulfur content. This is the same diesel fuel that is available at most gasoline stations for use in diesel engine automobiles. If ULSD is available for delivery to your home by a fuel oil dealer be sure to request "off road” prices, meaning that federal and state road taxes have been deducted. In order to maintain the best performance, Toyotomi strongly recommends when using ULSD that the heater be serviced at least every two years because the distillation of ULSD is heavier than either K-1 Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil.

If any of the Toyotomi vented heaters listed below are currently in use and using K-1 Kerosene or No.1 Fuel Oil, ULSD can now be used. However, Toyotomi strongly recommends that the unit be serviced prior to using ULSD and subsequently serviced at least every two years.

*Only the following models are approved to use ULSD: Toyostove Laser L-30, L-56, L-60AT, L-73, L-73AT, and Oil Miser OM-22




Of course, it's wise to back up any critical heat source with a secondary source, like the Kero Sun heater in the pix.

Meter is to check the flame sensor current of 20 microamps or something like that...






















Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:28:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:



It's likely going to have to be a vented heater to burn diesel. It won't be available at the box stores you mention.

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
FYI

From Toyo's site...



EXCLUSIVE!!


TOYOTOMI Heaters* are the only Direct Vent Heaters available that are Manufacturer approved to operate with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in addition to K-1 Kerosene and No. 1 Fuel Oil.

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) has no more than 15ppm (parts per million) of sulfur content. This is the same diesel fuel that is available at most gasoline stations for use in diesel engine automobiles. If ULSD is available for delivery to your home by a fuel oil dealer be sure to request "off road” prices, meaning that federal and state road taxes have been deducted. In order to maintain the best performance, Toyotomi strongly recommends when using ULSD that the heater be serviced at least every two years because the distillation of ULSD is heavier than either K-1 Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil.

If any of the Toyotomi vented heaters listed below are currently in use and using K-1 Kerosene or No.1 Fuel Oil, ULSD can now be used. However, Toyotomi strongly recommends that the unit be serviced prior to using ULSD and subsequently serviced at least every two years.

*Only the following models are approved to use ULSD: Toyostove Laser L-30, L-56, L-60AT, L-73, L-73AT, and Oil Miser OM-22




Of course, it's wise to back up any critical heat source with a secondary source, like the Kero Sun heater in the pix.

Meter is to check the flame sensor current of 20 microamps or something like that...


http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0022.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0020.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0023.jpg



http://s994.photobucket.com/user/expy37/media/IMG_0023.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0021.jpg



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for a Kerosene heater that can burn dyed diesel safely? It needs to be available at Lowes, HD, or Wal-Mart; so it can be purchased today.What do you recommend?

Thank you,
Accountant



It's likely going to have to be a vented heater to burn diesel. It won't be available at the box stores you mention.

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
FYI

From Toyo's site...



EXCLUSIVE!!


TOYOTOMI Heaters* are the only Direct Vent Heaters available that are Manufacturer approved to operate with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in addition to K-1 Kerosene and No. 1 Fuel Oil.

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) has no more than 15ppm (parts per million) of sulfur content. This is the same diesel fuel that is available at most gasoline stations for use in diesel engine automobiles. If ULSD is available for delivery to your home by a fuel oil dealer be sure to request "off road” prices, meaning that federal and state road taxes have been deducted. In order to maintain the best performance, Toyotomi strongly recommends when using ULSD that the heater be serviced at least every two years because the distillation of ULSD is heavier than either K-1 Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil.

If any of the Toyotomi vented heaters listed below are currently in use and using K-1 Kerosene or No.1 Fuel Oil, ULSD can now be used. However, Toyotomi strongly recommends that the unit be serviced prior to using ULSD and subsequently serviced at least every two years.

*Only the following models are approved to use ULSD: Toyostove Laser L-30, L-56, L-60AT, L-73, L-73AT, and Oil Miser OM-22




Of course, it's wise to back up any critical heat source with a secondary source, like the Kero Sun heater in the pix.

Meter is to check the flame sensor current of 20 microamps or something like that...


http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0022.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0020.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0023.jpg



http://s994.photobucket.com/user/expy37/media/IMG_0023.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0021.jpg






What does that use to vent and can you post a pic of where it exits the building?
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:30:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Diesel is basically kerosene mixed with lubricating oil,  I personally would be concerned with carbon monoxide issues if I were to use it in an enclosed area.  K1 kerosene is available locally for ~$5.00 a gallon so not an issue for me.  I am unaware of dyed kerosene,  diesel fuel is dyed when it is sold for farm or offroad use but it still has the lubricating oil in it.

I would only use clear kerosene however YMMV
View Quote


Umm, no.  Diesel fuel is a petroleum distillate, as is kerosene and fuel oil.  Most of the difference between the 3 is taxes, with some further refining in the case of diesel kerosene to remove more sulfur.  Only with the latest ULSD rules, that distinction may be gone.

As for carbon monoxide, if you are heating using a combustion source, you need CO monitoring. period.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:35:59 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lasnyder:
FYI...not diesel, but  I used red dyed 1K in my HMN 110 for a month or so last winter.... ;burned the wick clean when I stored it, don't know what long term problems the wick might have, but so far did not have a problem...
View Quote


Miles Stair on Red Dyed Kerosene

Basically looks like you are doing it correctly.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:45:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 11:50:10 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:



What does that use to vent and can you post a pic of where it exits the building?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for a Kerosene heater that can burn dyed diesel safely? It needs to be available at Lowes, HD, or Wal-Mart; so it can be purchased today.What do you recommend?

Thank you,
Accountant



It's likely going to have to be a vented heater to burn diesel. It won't be available at the box stores you mention.

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
FYI

From Toyo's site...



EXCLUSIVE!!


TOYOTOMI Heaters* are the only Direct Vent Heaters available that are Manufacturer approved to operate with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in addition to K-1 Kerosene and No. 1 Fuel Oil.

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) has no more than 15ppm (parts per million) of sulfur content. This is the same diesel fuel that is available at most gasoline stations for use in diesel engine automobiles. If ULSD is available for delivery to your home by a fuel oil dealer be sure to request "off road” prices, meaning that federal and state road taxes have been deducted. In order to maintain the best performance, Toyotomi strongly recommends when using ULSD that the heater be serviced at least every two years because the distillation of ULSD is heavier than either K-1 Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil.

If any of the Toyotomi vented heaters listed below are currently in use and using K-1 Kerosene or No.1 Fuel Oil, ULSD can now be used. However, Toyotomi strongly recommends that the unit be serviced prior to using ULSD and subsequently serviced at least every two years.

*Only the following models are approved to use ULSD: Toyostove Laser L-30, L-56, L-60AT, L-73, L-73AT, and Oil Miser OM-22




Of course, it's wise to back up any critical heat source with a secondary source, like the Kero Sun heater in the pix.

Meter is to check the flame sensor current of 20 microamps or something like that...


http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0022.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0020.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0023.jpg



http://s994.photobucket.com/user/expy37/media/IMG_0023.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0021.jpg






What does that use to vent and can you post a pic of where it exits the building?




Don't have a pic but will describe.

The vent and exhaust lines run parallel, thru the sheet rock wall, into the main building, and up the outer room wall, to about 8+ feet, then turn 90 degrees, and run to the building wall, a distance of 15 feet.

The exhaust is in steel conduit for about 15 feet, vertically and horizontally then transitions to 2" or 2 1/2 inch PVC. Fernco couplings are used throughout for easy future servicing.

The exit thru the main bldg wall is thru a clever---     combination of 2 1/2 or 2 inch fittings and a 3" sanitary 'Y' to make the exhaust run coaxially inside the intake and extend out past it about 6 inches. Safety wire is laced thru the exhaust to protect against birds.

There isn't a need to do the coaxial exhaust, I just thought is was cool engineering...

Horizontal lines are sloped slightly, to the outside, for condensate drainage.


The fuel supply has now been updated, see here... Need to add pix...  Remote PTZ cam is too poor res to show details, need to get up close and personal...

New fuel supply and lift pump...

Link Posted: 1/24/2014 2:35:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 5:14:08 PM EDT by regalrocket]
I've mixed up my kerosene and diesel fuel cans more than once. Doesn't even smell much different. Its fine to run.

Around here the diesel is straw colored, kerosene is red.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 2:46:35 PM EDT
There are large multi fuel, forced air heaters at Home Depot that will burn diesel. I used one for some time, there was some smoke, but if you could deal with the odor, it worked great.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 3:28:20 PM EDT
I've never tried diesel in my heaters but I recently bought a heater from Craigslist and the guy sold it cheap with a can of kero because his wife complained of the smell.

When I got home I found the kero was dyed kero and it STANK like a cheap hooker!

I use the dyed kerosene for starting fires outside.

I use only K1 kerosene bought at the gas station, just bought some today for $4.10 a gallon.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 5:14:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2014 5:15:52 PM EDT by regalrocket]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAIRBEAR:
I've never tried diesel in my heaters but I recently bought a heater from Craigslist and the guy sold it cheap with a can of kero because his wife complained of the smell.

When I got home I found the kero was dyed kero and it STANK like a cheap hooker!

I use the dyed kerosene for starting fires outside.

I use only K1 kerosene bought at the gas station, just bought some today for $4.10 a gallon.
View Quote


K1 that is highway tax free is red in NY, I assumed most states were, that way DOT can check if its in a trucks tanks.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 8:25:00 PM EDT
Diesel causes a lot of fumes and smoke from what I've seen with tower heaters.
I've never bought clear kero at the store - I always buy dyed kero at the gas station down the road for around $4 a gallon. I have about 50 gallons stored and use it as I fill it back up. My house kero heater is now 3 years old and still ticking - I've had to use it daily for about 2 hours over the last month - heat up the house while the wood stove is firing up. We replaced the original wick last year and it's still running fine. It's a kerosene heater, not the space shuttle
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 10:59:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:




Don't have a pic but will describe.

The vent and exhaust lines run parallel, thru the sheet rock wall, into the main building, and up the outer room wall, to about 8+ feet, then turn 90 degrees, and run to the building wall, a distance of 15 feet.

The exhaust is in steel conduit for about 15 feet, vertically and horizontally then transitions to 2" or 2 1/2 inch PVC. Fernco couplings are used throughout for easy future servicing.

The exit thru the main bldg wall is thru a clever---     combination of 2 1/2 or 2 inch fittings and a 3" sanitary 'Y' to make the exhaust run coaxially inside the intake and extend out past it about 6 inches. Safety wire is laced thru the exhaust to protect against birds.

There isn't a need to do the coaxial exhaust, I just thought is was cool engineering...

Horizontal lines are sloped slightly, to the outside, for condensate drainage.


The fuel supply has now been updated, see here... Need to add pix...  Remote PTZ cam is too poor res to show details, need to get up close and personal...

New fuel supply and lift pump...

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for a Kerosene heater that can burn dyed diesel safely? It needs to be available at Lowes, HD, or Wal-Mart; so it can be purchased today.What do you recommend?

Thank you,
Accountant



It's likely going to have to be a vented heater to burn diesel. It won't be available at the box stores you mention.

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
FYI

From Toyo's site...



EXCLUSIVE!!


TOYOTOMI Heaters* are the only Direct Vent Heaters available that are Manufacturer approved to operate with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in addition to K-1 Kerosene and No. 1 Fuel Oil.

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) has no more than 15ppm (parts per million) of sulfur content. This is the same diesel fuel that is available at most gasoline stations for use in diesel engine automobiles. If ULSD is available for delivery to your home by a fuel oil dealer be sure to request "off road” prices, meaning that federal and state road taxes have been deducted. In order to maintain the best performance, Toyotomi strongly recommends when using ULSD that the heater be serviced at least every two years because the distillation of ULSD is heavier than either K-1 Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil.

If any of the Toyotomi vented heaters listed below are currently in use and using K-1 Kerosene or No.1 Fuel Oil, ULSD can now be used. However, Toyotomi strongly recommends that the unit be serviced prior to using ULSD and subsequently serviced at least every two years.

*Only the following models are approved to use ULSD: Toyostove Laser L-30, L-56, L-60AT, L-73, L-73AT, and Oil Miser OM-22




Of course, it's wise to back up any critical heat source with a secondary source, like the Kero Sun heater in the pix.

Meter is to check the flame sensor current of 20 microamps or something like that...


http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0022.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0020.jpg



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0023.jpg



http://s994.photobucket.com/user/expy37/media/IMG_0023.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_0021.jpg






What does that use to vent and can you post a pic of where it exits the building?




Don't have a pic but will describe.

The vent and exhaust lines run parallel, thru the sheet rock wall, into the main building, and up the outer room wall, to about 8+ feet, then turn 90 degrees, and run to the building wall, a distance of 15 feet.

The exhaust is in steel conduit for about 15 feet, vertically and horizontally then transitions to 2" or 2 1/2 inch PVC. Fernco couplings are used throughout for easy future servicing.

The exit thru the main bldg wall is thru a clever---     combination of 2 1/2 or 2 inch fittings and a 3" sanitary 'Y' to make the exhaust run coaxially inside the intake and extend out past it about 6 inches. Safety wire is laced thru the exhaust to protect against birds.

There isn't a need to do the coaxial exhaust, I just thought is was cool engineering...

Horizontal lines are sloped slightly, to the outside, for condensate drainage.


The fuel supply has now been updated, see here... Need to add pix...  Remote PTZ cam is too poor res to show details, need to get up close and personal...

New fuel supply and lift pump...




Thanks for the info.  

What do you heat with it?
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 1:18:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2014 1:18:50 AM EDT by EXPY37]
A place [room] in the mtns...

Link Posted: 1/25/2014 2:35:06 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alphabavo:
There are large multi fuel, forced air heaters at Home Depot that will burn diesel. I used one for some time, there was some smoke, but if you could deal with the odor, it worked great.
View Quote


Do not use those in the house,  period.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 2:39:15 AM EDT
The 2.5 gallon jugs of 1k at Walmart are about $8 per gallon. Better than $11, but still expensive.  I only but Walmart 1k at the end of the season for $5 a gallon.  The I mix it with the $4 a gallon clear pump k1. Cleaner burning and not quite as expensive.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 6:57:59 AM EDT

I can't speak to tower heaters, but I have been using a forced air kerosene heater on diesel for 10 years.  I am talking about the ones that look like a big tube on it's side on top of a fuel tank.  I use it to heat my 30 x 50 shop.


Back before they took the sulphur out of diesel, it would give you a headache if you ran it too long without a door open for fresh air.  Just like a diesel truck would.  Now with the low sulphur diesel I can run it for hours and hours with no ill effect.  I usually don't run it without occasionally letting fresh air in because I know there has to be some additive packages in diesel that are not good for human consumption.


The only real time I ever see it smoke is when it first starts up and when I turn it off.


Would I bring it in the house?  Only in the worst of circumstances, and I would not sleep with it on.  I would vent the house through a couple of open windows.  I do not recommend it though as I feel it COULD be dangerous from the fumes.


I have said this before.  Kerosene is only available here in 5 gallon cans from one of the home stores at $9 per gallon. I can have it shipped in from fuel suppliers only in a 55 gallon drum at $8 per gallon.  Diesel is easy to get and that is why I use it with care in my shop.  I do have plenty of Kerosene stored for my regular Kerosene heaters in case of emergency and some Jet A too, but I worry about additive packages in the Jet A as well.


As always YMMV.


Link Posted: 1/25/2014 9:39:31 AM EDT
"Kerosene is only available here in 5 gallon cans from one of the home stores at $9 per gallon"


Let me guess you haven't cracked open the Yellow pages, searched out BULK FUEL DISTRIBUTORS...

And run by and picked up all the kerosene you want for about $4 a gallon, and put into pails they sell for about $5 for one 5 gallon pail.

Or used Google search to find the same sources.



Link Posted: 1/25/2014 10:42:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2014 10:56:36 AM EDT by MongoCaver]




Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:





"Kerosene is only available here in 5 gallon cans from one of the home stores at $9 per gallon"
Let me guess you haven't cracked open the Yellow pages, searched out BULK FUEL DISTRIBUTORS...
And run by and picked up all the kerosene you want for about $4 a gallon, and put into pails they sell for about $5 for one 5 gallon pail.
Or used Google search to find the same sources.
View Quote




You obviously missed this line in my post:




I can have it shipped in from fuel suppliers only in a 55 gallon drum at $8 per gallon.




And in case that isn't clear enough.  I have searched the Yellow pages, both paper and online and contacted them.  They only sell it in 55 gallon drums that they have to order in.  It runs $8 per gallon, about $440 per 55 gallon drum.  Which is twice what I can get Jet A for.








I live in a place where it doesn't get that cold.  We rarely get below 5 degrees here.  So no one thinks it is worth it to keep kerosene on hand.  Not Fuel Suppliers, independent gas stations or anybody else, except home stores that rape you for it.  I have seen other folks in other parts of the country post the same issue here.










Edited to add that it is the same issue for Naptha, which I have always used for cleaning parts.  I used to get it at gas stations from overhead tanks, but that has gone away now too.  You have to get it at paint stores, or some farm stores.


Oh and while I am discussing petroleum products...You can't get Ethanol free gas anywhere within a 150 mile radius.  Oh sure, there are websites that show stations that sell it, but when you get there, they only have Ethanol laden gas now...  The reason I added these last two facts is that I believe times are changing and businesses reduce inventory of slow moving items to save on cost.  I am in an area that is growing rapidly because of oil field activity nearby, so it is not like this area is dying...



 


 
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 11:50:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2014 11:50:32 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
You obviously missed this line in my post:

I can have it shipped in from fuel suppliers only in a 55 gallon drum at $8 per gallon.

And in case that isn't clear enough.  I have searched the Yellow pages, both paper and online and contacted them.  They only sell it in 55 gallon drums that they have to order in.  It runs $8 per gallon, about $440 per 55 gallon drum.  Which is twice what I can get Jet A for.

I live in a place where it doesn't get that cold.  We rarely get below 5 degrees here.  So no one thinks it is worth it to keep kerosene on hand.  Not Fuel Suppliers, independent gas stations or anybody else, except home stores that rape you for it.  I have seen other folks in other parts of the country post the same issue here.


Edited to add that it is the same issue for Naptha, which I have always used for cleaning parts.  I used to get it at gas stations from overhead tanks, but that has gone away now too.  You have to get it at paint stores, or some farm stores.

Oh and while I am discussing petroleum products...You can't get Ethanol free gas anywhere within a 150 mile radius.  Oh sure, there are websites that show stations that sell it, but when you get there, they only have Ethanol laden gas now...  The reason I added these last two facts is that I believe times are changing and businesses reduce inventory of slow moving items to save on cost.  I am in an area that is growing rapidly because of oil field activity nearby, so it is not like this area is dying...  

 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
"Kerosene is only available here in 5 gallon cans from one of the home stores at $9 per gallon"


Let me guess you haven't cracked open the Yellow pages, searched out BULK FUEL DISTRIBUTORS...

And run by and picked up all the kerosene you want for about $4 a gallon, and put into pails they sell for about $5 for one 5 gallon pail.

Or used Google search to find the same sources.



You obviously missed this line in my post:

I can have it shipped in from fuel suppliers only in a 55 gallon drum at $8 per gallon.

And in case that isn't clear enough.  I have searched the Yellow pages, both paper and online and contacted them.  They only sell it in 55 gallon drums that they have to order in.  It runs $8 per gallon, about $440 per 55 gallon drum.  Which is twice what I can get Jet A for.

I live in a place where it doesn't get that cold.  We rarely get below 5 degrees here.  So no one thinks it is worth it to keep kerosene on hand.  Not Fuel Suppliers, independent gas stations or anybody else, except home stores that rape you for it.  I have seen other folks in other parts of the country post the same issue here.


Edited to add that it is the same issue for Naptha, which I have always used for cleaning parts.  I used to get it at gas stations from overhead tanks, but that has gone away now too.  You have to get it at paint stores, or some farm stores.

Oh and while I am discussing petroleum products...You can't get Ethanol free gas anywhere within a 150 mile radius.  Oh sure, there are websites that show stations that sell it, but when you get there, they only have Ethanol laden gas now...  The reason I added these last two facts is that I believe times are changing and businesses reduce inventory of slow moving items to save on cost.  I am in an area that is growing rapidly because of oil field activity nearby, so it is not like this area is dying...  

 



I did miss that...

Find another supplier or go pick it up???

PM me your general location and I will try to find a solution for you.





Link Posted: 1/25/2014 12:14:38 PM EDT

No need to PM, I ain't a skeered.


I am in Lubbock, Texas.  Which is in the lower panhandle of Texas.


Just so you know, over the last few years I have checked with every fuel supplier in the area, as well as every source I could think of.  Having lived here for over 50 years, that is a lot of sources...


Don't waste your time looking, I am set alright for kero for the indoor heaters, and diesel works just fine for the shop heater.  Hell, I probably only use 20 or so gallons of diesel in it every winter.  I would love to find a good source for Naptha though.  The Naptha in my old parts washer is nasty, even after I ran it through a low micron filter.  I need 10 gallons of it.  All the wimps now days use soap in their parts washers because of the low fire danger and it isn't as cancer causing if you get it on you repeatedly.  Soap just doesn't clean like Naptha though.


Oh well, sorry OP for the thread drift...


Link Posted: 1/25/2014 12:50:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2014 12:51:01 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
No need to PM, I ain't a skeered.

I am in Lubbock, Texas.  Which is in the lower panhandle of Texas.

Just so you know, over the last few years I have checked with every fuel supplier in the area, as well as every source I could think of.  Having lived here for over 50 years, that is a lot of sources...

Don't waste your time looking, I am set alright for kero for the indoor heaters, and diesel works just fine for the shop heater.  Hell, I probably only use 20 or so gallons of diesel in it every winter.  I would love to find a good source for Naptha though.  The Naptha in my old parts washer is nasty, even after I ran it through a low micron filter.  I need 10 gallons of it.  All the wimps now days use soap in their parts washers because of the low fire danger and it isn't as cancer causing if you get it on you repeatedly.  Soap just doesn't clean like Naptha though.

Oh well, sorry OP for the thread drift...

View Quote



No issue, I found it interesting...

I may call around Monday out of curiosity.

Tell me abt the Nancy Boyz...  



Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:37:29 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
No need to PM, I ain't a skeered.

I am in Lubbock, Texas.  Which is in the lower panhandle of Texas.

Just so you know, over the last few years I have checked with every fuel supplier in the area, as well as every source I could think of.  Having lived here for over 50 years, that is a lot of sources...

Don't waste your time looking, I am set alright for kero for the indoor heaters, and diesel works just fine for the shop heater.  Hell, I probably only use 20 or so gallons of diesel in it every winter.  I would love to find a good source for Naptha though.  The Naptha in my old parts washer is nasty, even after I ran it through a low micron filter.  I need 10 gallons of it.  All the wimps now days use soap in their parts washers because of the low fire danger and it isn't as cancer causing if you get it on you repeatedly.  Soap just doesn't clean like Naptha though.

Oh well, sorry OP for the thread drift...

View Quote


I'm pretty sure Coleman fuel is basically pure naptha.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:05:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By R2point0:


Umm, no.  Diesel fuel is a petroleum distillate, as is kerosene and fuel oil.  Most of the difference between the 3 is taxes, with some further refining in the case of diesel kerosene to remove more sulfur.  Only with the latest ULSD rules, that distinction may be gone.

As for carbon monoxide, if you are heating using a combustion source, you need CO monitoring. period.
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Diesel is basically kerosene mixed with lubricating oil,  I personally would be concerned with carbon monoxide issues if I were to use it in an enclosed area.  K1 kerosene is available locally for ~$5.00 a gallon so not an issue for me.  I am unaware of dyed kerosene,  diesel fuel is dyed when it is sold for farm or offroad use but it still has the lubricating oil in it.

I would only use clear kerosene however YMMV


Umm, no.  Diesel fuel is a petroleum distillate, as is kerosene and fuel oil.  Most of the difference between the 3 is taxes, with some further refining in the case of diesel kerosene to remove more sulfur.  Only with the latest ULSD rules, that distinction may be gone.

As for carbon monoxide, if you are heating using a combustion source, you need CO monitoring. period.


Diesel absolutely has lubricating oil in it for the high pressure injection pump.  An emergency diesel fuel can be made from  (going from memory so the ratio might not be correct) five gallons of kero and two quarts of 30 weight ND motor oil.  Now technically what you say about diesel being the *same* as kerosine and oil is true.  It's analogous to jet fuel not being the *same* as kerosine.

Be that as it may I'd be worried about incomplete combustion with diesel and monitoring carbon monoxide is definitely a good idea for any non-vented heater used indoors.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:37:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 86Merk:


Diesel absolutely has lubricating oil in it for the high pressure injection pump.  An emergency diesel fuel can be made from  (going from memory so the ratio might not be correct) five gallons of kero and two quarts of 30 weight ND motor oil.  Now technically what you say about diesel being the *same* as kerosine and oil is true.  It's analogous to jet fuel not being the *same* as kerosine.

Be that as it may I'd be worried about incomplete combustion with diesel and monitoring carbon monoxide is definitely a good idea for any non-vented heater used indoors.
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Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Diesel is basically kerosene mixed with lubricating oil,  I personally would be concerned with carbon monoxide issues if I were to use it in an enclosed area.  K1 kerosene is available locally for ~$5.00 a gallon so not an issue for me.  I am unaware of dyed kerosene,  diesel fuel is dyed when it is sold for farm or offroad use but it still has the lubricating oil in it.

I would only use clear kerosene however YMMV


Umm, no.  Diesel fuel is a petroleum distillate, as is kerosene and fuel oil.  Most of the difference between the 3 is taxes, with some further refining in the case of diesel kerosene to remove more sulfur.  Only with the latest ULSD rules, that distinction may be gone.

As for carbon monoxide, if you are heating using a combustion source, you need CO monitoring. period.


Diesel absolutely has lubricating oil in it for the high pressure injection pump.  An emergency diesel fuel can be made from  (going from memory so the ratio might not be correct) five gallons of kero and two quarts of 30 weight ND motor oil.  Now technically what you say about diesel being the *same* as kerosine and oil is true.  It's analogous to jet fuel not being the *same* as kerosine.

Be that as it may I'd be worried about incomplete combustion with diesel and monitoring carbon monoxide is definitely a good idea for any non-vented heater used indoors.


The lubrication for the diesel injection pump was provided by the sulfur in the fuel and by the fuel itself.  The reason you used to add motor oil to kero was to increase it's viscosity and provide lubrication because Kero has almost always had the sulfur removed.

I looked at the MSDS's - no lubricating oil included.

In fact, if you try the kero+motor oil combination in a modern common rail or other high pressure system diesel, you will destroy the pump tout de suite. Thanks to the EPA sulfur got removed from diesel at the same time pump pressure was increased dramatically.  So the pumps needed serious redesign so they didn't fail without the sulfur.  Get some diesel contaminated with water - any water - you are screwed.  VW was having pumps fail between 50 and 100k miles, as opposed to 200-300k miles for the older VE pumps. Look up the MSDS's yourself - no lubricants, just light fractions.

That doesn't mean I advocate using diesel in lieu of kerosene.  95% of the diesel in the lower 48 is #2, while kerosene is the equivalent of #1 diesel.  It is made up of the lighter fractions, so kerosene burning devices will have trouble with the heavier fuel - it wicks differently, needs a different orifice, etc. It's like natural gas vs. propane - the same appliances *could* run either, but there would need to be some component changes.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:59:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 4:18:45 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MongoCaver:
No need to PM, I ain't a skeered.

I am in Lubbock, Texas.  Which is in the lower panhandle of Texas.

Just so you know, over the last few years I have checked with every fuel supplier in the area, as well as every source I could think of.  Having lived here for over 50 years, that is a lot of sources...

Don't waste your time looking, I am set alright for kero for the indoor heaters, and diesel works just fine for the shop heater.  Hell, I probably only use 20 or so gallons of diesel in it every winter.  I would love to find a good source for Naptha though.  The Naptha in my old parts washer is nasty, even after I ran it through a low micron filter.  I need 10 gallons of it.  All the wimps now days use soap in their parts washers because of the low fire danger and it isn't as cancer causing if you get it on you repeatedly.  Soap just doesn't clean like Naptha though.

Oh well, sorry OP for the thread drift...

View Quote



Found a possible source of 'kero' for you @ $4.60.

My fuel dist, says that Jet A and kero are the same thing. [It's what I use]  I called in your area and talked with a bulk fuel dist and they said that they hadn't carried kero since 1970's and would have to buy abt 10,000 gallon and it would take several years to sell it.

They There may be cheaper places. AIRNAV.com is a great resource for things like that.

They said if you brought in your container they might fill it from the pump, although I heard the feds didn't allow that, but IDK...

What I'd do for what it's worth, [you said you don't need it ---but if you ever do...]  is buy some 5 gallon pails from one of the several fuel suppliers, and go to the airport and fill er up!



Maybe this will help somebuddy else...






Link Posted: 1/27/2014 8:00:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By regalrocket:


K1 that is highway tax free is red in NY, I assumed most states were, that way DOT can check if its in a trucks tanks.
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Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By HAIRBEAR:
I've never tried diesel in my heaters but I recently bought a heater from Craigslist and the guy sold it cheap with a can of kero because his wife complained of the smell.

When I got home I found the kero was dyed kero and it STANK like a cheap hooker!

I use the dyed kerosene for starting fires outside.

I use only K1 kerosene bought at the gas station, just bought some today for $4.10 a gallon.


K1 that is highway tax free is red in NY, I assumed most states were, that way DOT can check if its in a trucks tanks.


It is clear and about 30-40 cents more expensive around here than diesel so I see no advantage to run it in any on road diesel engine.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:02:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 5:31:39 AM EDT by MongoCaver]

I found Jet A as a small airport.  When I called around I asked them if they would sell me some Jet A without a plane to put it in.  Some will, some won't.  From what I can tell, there may be some regulations against it, but some folks are not too worried about it.  I would suggest that if anyone finds an airport that will allow it, that you don't advertise it on here, just in case.  








Now my only question I have never got a knowledgeable answer on is:








There are additive packages added to vehicle gasoline and diesel when it leaves the refinery.  I want to know if the same thing happens to Jet A.  








I have gotten answers from lots of folks with guesses, but nobody that knows for sure.





 






 
 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:18:18 PM EDT
Delete my quote and I'll do same...
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 5:43:49 PM EDT
just bought 5 gals of K1 clear for $3.99 a gal, I only got it because of the ice storm that is a coming.

Btw: it was from a local quick mart.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 12:45:52 AM EDT
I paid $4.19 a gallon yesterday in PA.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 3:53:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 3:55:18 AM EDT by pnuner]
I get K1 from a local equipment rental place.  Price is about $6.42 per gallon about a month ago.  There is a distributor that has K1 for slightly less ~ $6 a gallon.  However they aren't set up to sell to the public,  there are no cash sales and it takes them about 5 minutes to do a credit card transaction.  So I just pay the little bit extra at the rental place because of convenience.

** Edit:  BTW propane just jumped $1 a gallon here.  It's now over $3 per gallon so K1 is looking more affordable all the time.  I use wood when were home for longer periods but we aren't home that much it seems.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:50:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By R2point0:


The lubrication for the diesel injection pump was provided by the sulfur in the fuel and by the fuel itself.  The reason you used to add motor oil to kero was to increase it's viscosity and provide lubrication because Kero has almost always had the sulfur removed.

I looked at the MSDS's - no lubricating oil included.

In fact, if you try the kero+motor oil combination in a modern common rail or other high pressure system diesel, you will destroy the pump tout de suite. Thanks to the EPA sulfur got removed from diesel at the same time pump pressure was increased dramatically.  So the pumps needed serious redesign so they didn't fail without the sulfur.  Get some diesel contaminated with water - any water - you are screwed.  VW was having pumps fail between 50 and 100k miles, as opposed to 200-300k miles for the older VE pumps. Look up the MSDS's yourself - no lubricants, just light fractions.

That doesn't mean I advocate using diesel in lieu of kerosene.  95% of the diesel in the lower 48 is #2, while kerosene is the equivalent of #1 diesel.  It is made up of the lighter fractions, so kerosene burning devices will have trouble with the heavier fuel - it wicks differently, needs a different orifice, etc. It's like natural gas vs. propane - the same appliances *could* run either, but there would need to be some component changes.
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By 86Merk:
Diesel is basically kerosene mixed with lubricating oil,  I personally would be concerned with carbon monoxide issues if I were to use it in an enclosed area.  K1 kerosene is available locally for ~$5.00 a gallon so not an issue for me.  I am unaware of dyed kerosene,  diesel fuel is dyed when it is sold for farm or offroad use but it still has the lubricating oil in it.

I would only use clear kerosene however YMMV


Umm, no.  Diesel fuel is a petroleum distillate, as is kerosene and fuel oil.  Most of the difference between the 3 is taxes, with some further refining in the case of diesel kerosene to remove more sulfur.  Only with the latest ULSD rules, that distinction may be gone.

As for carbon monoxide, if you are heating using a combustion source, you need CO monitoring. period.


Diesel absolutely has lubricating oil in it for the high pressure injection pump.  An emergency diesel fuel can be made from  (going from memory so the ratio might not be correct) five gallons of kero and two quarts of 30 weight ND motor oil.  Now technically what you say about diesel being the *same* as kerosine and oil is true.  It's analogous to jet fuel not being the *same* as kerosine.

Be that as it may I'd be worried about incomplete combustion with diesel and monitoring carbon monoxide is definitely a good idea for any non-vented heater used indoors.


The lubrication for the diesel injection pump was provided by the sulfur in the fuel and by the fuel itself.  The reason you used to add motor oil to kero was to increase it's viscosity and provide lubrication because Kero has almost always had the sulfur removed.

I looked at the MSDS's - no lubricating oil included.

In fact, if you try the kero+motor oil combination in a modern common rail or other high pressure system diesel, you will destroy the pump tout de suite. Thanks to the EPA sulfur got removed from diesel at the same time pump pressure was increased dramatically.  So the pumps needed serious redesign so they didn't fail without the sulfur.  Get some diesel contaminated with water - any water - you are screwed.  VW was having pumps fail between 50 and 100k miles, as opposed to 200-300k miles for the older VE pumps. Look up the MSDS's yourself - no lubricants, just light fractions.

That doesn't mean I advocate using diesel in lieu of kerosene.  95% of the diesel in the lower 48 is #2, while kerosene is the equivalent of #1 diesel.  It is made up of the lighter fractions, so kerosene burning devices will have trouble with the heavier fuel - it wicks differently, needs a different orifice, etc. It's like natural gas vs. propane - the same appliances *could* run either, but there would need to be some component changes.



I stand corrected.  It is, however extremely inappropriate of you to cloud an internet discussion with facts
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 9:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 9:15:30 AM EDT by EXPY37]
How was the sulfur distributed in old diesel?

Was it as a finely divided solid, or was it dissolved?

Or was it in a compound that was soluble in the fuel?


Link Posted: 1/28/2014 10:02:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
How was the sulfur distributed in old diesel?

Was it as a finely divided solid, or was it dissolved?

Or was it in a compound that was soluble in the fuel?


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I believe fine particulates.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 10:52:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By R2point0:


I believe fine particulates.
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
How was the sulfur distributed in old diesel?

Was it as a finely divided solid, or was it dissolved?

Or was it in a compound that was soluble in the fuel?




I believe fine particulates.



Certainly the emissions the EPA whines about...

But if they were suspended in the fuel, wouldn't they settle out???


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