Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 10/11/2007 7:44:50 AM EST
From GD:

Iran Promises "Final Response" to US and Israel on October 12
29 Tishrei 5768, 11 October 07 04:53
by Ezra HaLevi

(IsraelNN.com) Iran has promised a devastating “final response” to supporters of the Jewish State on October 12, the Islamic Republic’s Quds (Jerusalem) Day.

“Supporters of the Zionist regime will receive their response during the world Quds Day's rallies,” Iranian government spokesman Gholam-Hossein Elham said at a weekly press conference Wednesday.

According to the state-controlled Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA), Elham was describing Iran's planned response for US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's visit “to the occupied Palestine [sic].”

"The US loses all opportunities to cooperate with regional and other world states by trying to support a regime (the Zionist regime) which is now at its weakest political and social position," Elham said. "Supporters of the Zionist regime will definitely receive the final response for their support on Quds day."

Quds Day is held each year on the last Friday of the Islamic month of Ramadan. It was instituted in 1979, following the Islamic revolution by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini.

“I ask all the Muslims of the world and the Muslim governments to join together to sever the hand of this usurper and its supporters,” Khomeini said when proposing the day. “I call on all the Muslims of the world to select as Quds Day the last Friday in the holy month of Ramadan - which is itself a determining period and can also be the determiner of the Palestinian people’s fate - and through a ceremony demonstrating the solidarity of Muslims world-wide, announce their support for the legitimate rights of the Muslim people. I ask G-d Almighty for the victory of the Muslims over the infidels.”

On Quds Day in 2000, Khomeini’s successor Khamenei called for Israel’s destruction, saying it is “the only way to solve the problems of the Middle East.”

Open Threats of War
One of Khamenei’s top advisers, Major General Yahya Rahim-Safavi, declared Tuesday that Iran would strike “in shortest possible time” in case of any strike on its nuclear facilities. He referred specifically to the army of suicide-bombers and child-soldiers active during the Iran-Iraq war. "The enemy will face strong armed forces especially the Basij [suicide-bombers and child soldiers] if it unleashed a military attack on Iran," he said. He claimed that the Basij army has 20 million members.

According to IRNA, “He said that the US has been entangled in a quagmire in Iraq and cannot easily survive.”

Iranian Embassy: US Carried Out the Worst Holocaust
Responding to US President George W. Bush's recent statement that a nuclear Iran would place the region under threat of nuclear holocaust, Iran's embassy in Mexico released the following statement Tuesday: "The term used by President George W. Bush should be referred to what the US carried out in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the World War II when it destroyed the two Japanese cities with atomic bombs." It added that Bush “implicitly admitted that what Washington had done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a crime worse than Hitler's crimes."
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:08:33 AM EST
Nothing I can do about it if it happens. If something really bad happens then I'm ready for it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:11:28 AM EST
Scare tactics , nothing more. If IRAN flinches im hoping the US wont fuck around and jus turn that place into one big ass walmart parking lot.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:14:29 AM EST
+1 me too
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:15:17 AM EST
Nope.
Don't worry about it.
Just bluster designed to convince his people that the Islamic Revolution will continue.
Which reminds me...which nations have had an Islamic Revolution since 1979?
*crickets*
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:15:42 AM EST
no
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:18:10 AM EST
I ain't skeered.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:30:49 AM EST
No the western world is desensitized to his posturing and threats. Sooner or later he will follow through on one and we will all be shocked.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:31:13 AM EST
Announcing ahead of time the date that your going to [nuke/destroy/wipe off the map] some [country/target/person/race] is usually a pretty good way to ensure that it won't happen.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:41:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:42:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:44:01 AM EST
I would like to see if those low yield bunker buster nukes really work...

AC
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:53:40 AM EST
In my experience, heralded Iranian activities usually turn out to be minor announcements regarding their "civilian" nuclear program.

Satellite TV isn't working well in Israel, Lebanon and Syria, and hasn't been since the 9/6 raid, per the UK Telegraph, and I'll leave further speculation on that subject to you.

If there's a threat to the US there, first priority goes (IMO) to any NBC exchanges, second priority goes to Iran honoring their defense pact with Syria and threatening US troops in theater, and third goes to threats involving energy transportation.

As others in this thread have noted, telegraphing any of those type operation, in advance, forfeits the advantage of surprise, but I've never been convinced of radical Muslim rationality, so YMMV.

As always, hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:56:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
No the western world is desensitized to his posturing and threats. Sooner or later he will follow through on one and we will all be shocked.


I dont think most people understand this guys threats are not empty! From his religious beliefs he is supposed to bring the messiah (which is actually the Antichrist of Christianity) to the world! Through bloodshed of the infidel (you,me and the Jews)...when (not IF) he gets his nukes finished..he will use them! everything we have talked about in this SF is going to happen, Sooner than we think!!

I want to recommend a book for you guys to read..Epicenter by Joel Rosenberg!

If you are lacking any preps..you better get them!..Before I do!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:07:56 AM EST
not to concerned.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:10:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:32:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By jeffers_mz:
As always, hope for the best, plan for the worst.



Yup. That's why I always take threats like these seriously. I don't get the finger-pointing by a few around here and use of the term "tin foil" as a put-down. As well as labeling someone a "chicken little". I'm sure that my coworkers think I'm a chicken little. Of course, then the SHTF does happen (and IT WILL sooner or later), then the guy who spent years putting-up with harrasment because of his preparedness isn't looking so stupid. And then those who failed to prepare want assurances, answers, guidance, and security given to them immediately. But I'll be long gone... watching over my family. My coworkers will be mostly on their own.

Do I believe 100% that every threat will be carried-out? No. But I use every one to fuel the fire inside that pushes me to prepare more. Preperation for me is like getting ready for the olympics. It'd feel MUCH better to just sit on the couch and watch the toob. But instead, I keep at it. And when things are all quiet, I STILL keep at it. Because I could never be prepared for everything. And I could never have enough to take care of everyone I care about. So preparedness isn't some kind of journey that will ever have an end to me. It's something that I'll be working at for the rest of my life.

BTW... do these wackjobs really even believe the crap they spew? How could one be that deluded? The guy says that our dropping of atom bombs on Japan (the war they started and refused to stop until after that) was WORSE than what Hitler did. How could ANYONE ever really believe something that screwed-up?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:34:00 AM EST
No. I'm more concerned about Halloween pranksters.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:51:00 AM EST
The Iranians are not in any position to attack anybody. It doesn't serve any of their interests to do so. In many foreign policy circles the conventional wisdom is that it will play out thusly; 1) Israel does a "preemptive" strike on Iran for some perceived threat, 2) Iran is forced to respond or lose legitimacy with it's own population, 3) The US hammers Iran hard, 4) The resulting riots in Gaza and the West bank allow Israel to enter and occupy, further driving "Palestinians" out of the areas and strengthening it's grip on a bit of real estate they dearly want. The ball is squarely in Israel's court, as usual.

For all their sound and fury, the Iranians aren't really as dangerous to our interests as some of our Sunni "allies". They are, no doubt, supplying their Shiite brothers in Iraq. They won't, however, attempt any sort of offensive move that would trigger a larger conflict with the US. Watch how much support our Arab "friends" give us if we allow Israel to drag us into a fight with Iran.

I'm not sure it's all worth the American lives. We've still got that bunch running around in Afghanistan and Pakistan to obliterate. They're the ones who attacked us.

J.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:54:57 AM EST
Blah Blah Blah, all they want is attention. Just like N. Korea. If they didn't keep spouting this bullshit then everyone would forget about them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:14:30 AM EST
Isn't it October 12th over there right now? I'd suspect that if they had something in the works it would happen either before dawn or when the sun sets over there.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:24:10 AM EST
No - A threat from Iran is not much different than a kid threating to hold their breath until they die.
Except in this case, if Iran did do anything of significance, they would be the ones dieing.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:00:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavTex:
No - A threat from Iran is not much different than a kid threating to hold their breath until they die.
Except in this case, if Iran did do anything of significance, they would be the ones dieing.


I would hope we would nuke them till they glow. But with all the damn Dems in power it makes me wonder.

Personally I just dont see the problem. We already paid for our nukes. So if we used them then we really wouldn't be in any more debt. Fuket I say use em.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:03:05 PM EST
He's just bullshiting to calm internal fears of US-Israeli airstrikes. Nothing but idle threats.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:17:57 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
The Iranians are not in any position to attack anybody. It doesn't serve any of their interests to do so. In many foreign policy circles the conventional wisdom is that it will play out thusly; 1) Israel does a "preemptive" strike on Iran for some perceived threat, 2) Iran is forced to respond or lose legitimacy with it's own population, 3) The US hammers Iran hard, 4) The resulting riots in Gaza and the West bank allow Israel to enter and occupy, further driving "Palestinians" out of the areas and strengthening it's grip on a bit of real estate they dearly want. The ball is squarely in Israel's court, as usual.

For all their sound and fury, the Iranians aren't really as dangerous to our interests as some of our Sunni "allies". They are, no doubt, supplying their Shiite brothers in Iraq. They won't, however, attempt any sort of offensive move that would trigger a larger conflict with the US. Watch how much support our Arab "friends" give us if we allow Israel to drag us into a fight with Iran.

I'm not sure it's all worth the American lives. We've still got that bunch running around in Afghanistan and Pakistan to obliterate. They're the ones who attacked us.

J.


Your statement presumes that WE know what THEIR interests really are. I agree that from a rational point of view you are completely right. However, what makes us think these guys are anywhere near rational?

Just another reason to revere Jimmy Carter. Right!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:21:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fister:
I would hope we would nuke them till they glow. But with all the damn Dems in power it makes me wonder.

Personally I just dont see the problem. We already paid for our nukes. So if we used them then we really wouldn't be in any more debt. Fuket I say use em.


There's always a hope that Israel could do it for us.....
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:24:49 PM EST
if they flinch it will be a giant glass sculpture of previously iran
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:49:52 PM EST
My guess is - at worst it's an atomic (likely not nuclear yet) weapon test on their soil and bluster... I doubt they're in any position right now to get Hizballah going...

Best case scenario is more hot air.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:08:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By AC_Doctor:
I would like to see if those HIGH yield bunker buster nukes really work...




Fixed it for you
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:31:18 PM EST
GUNSFORHIRE,

Awesome post. your are so right. we just did a study about Islam in Church this past saturday and your same sentiments were expressed.I believe it is something to take seriously.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:31:37 PM EST
simply more "targets",
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:58:57 PM EST
Not in the least.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:18:30 PM EST
Actually our microphones were in the "green" room right before the speech and got this-

President Tom; I want to scare all Americans on the 12th so what can I threaten them with?

Aid; Well the old "wrath of allah, burning in a lake of fire, cats and dogs living together always worked in the past."

President Tom; Yes! All praise goes to the stinky one! But I need more, we need to "kick it up a notch!" I just love watching that guy! Last night he was making gourmet BLT's and.......

Aid; Clears throat.

President Tom; I know! I'll say we will send wave after wave of unshaven men in bad jackets! And ah, my Mom! Oh boy, your going to get it this time! She'll push her shopping cart through the gates of Wall Street! Those darn capitalist! BTW, how's our Micky D's stock doing?


Who knows. I'm going to stay frosty but I think it's more big talk from a little man.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:54:57 PM EST
Considering israeil just waltzed right thru the new soviet air defence systems syria has purchased and iran has been buying the same crap, I dont think they are going to be trying anything and Ill bet they are really pissed at the russians.......and they did it with F15/16's not stealth.....Man I love the jews
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:00:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
I dont think most people understand this guys threats are not empty! From his religious beliefs he is supposed to bring the messiah (which is actually the Antichrist of Christianity) to the world!


I doubt the 12th Imam is the Anti-Christ. Remember the Anti-Christ is accepted by the Jews as the Messiah. Fat chance a Muslim can pull that off. I strongly doubt the Anti-Christ will come from Islam. Islam is, in no way, related to Christianity.
Matt
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:03:11 PM EST
Three or four years ago this would have concerned me. Since then I have developed "threat fatigue." They just don't normally register anymore. I mean, I got home late tonight and didn't even bother to fill up the gas tank since it was down to 1/2, and I almost always fill it before then.

So if something does happen it's probably my fault for not filling the tank.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:11:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Scare tactics , nothing more. If IRAN flinches im hoping the US wont fuck around and jus turn that place into one big ass walmart parking lot.




Sheet of glass
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:09:16 PM EST
Here are the 2 likely scenarios. This is actually a topic I know quiet a bit about.

1. They will announce a new missle, ie. Shebab-2,000,000 that they claim can hit Tel-Aviv. If the missle is anything other than sheet metal, or an old one with a new paint job, will be the only question. Likely it will be an old one.

2. Syria and Iran have been building a lot of Dirty bombs on top of missles. They will announce that they now have radiological weapons to use on the ZionistsThis is a definite possibility, they likely already have them. Though these weapons would do a lot of damage to their own countries which are in the region. Syria, is right next door to Israel. Add to that the winds, and water cycle. The Arab World would be pretty pissed, if they actually used them.

3. Iran will announce a new pact with Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas to destroy Israel. This will also include a new leader position in Syria that is in charge of the armed forces, and a pawn of Iran. I see this as the most likely possibility. Syria is pretty freaked out about the Israeli air strike that blew up their nuclear facility. North Korea has been moving their equipment to Syria. Their ruler Bashaar Assad, has chosen not to respond. This has put a lot of pressure on him both internally and from Iran.

The Arab world does not actually care about the Palestinians. They are not given citizenship, and are not allowed to pursue professional careers such as doctors, in Arab countries. The Palestinians are their pawns. The oppressive Arab rulers blame all their problems on the Zionists, instead of actually addressing their own people. It's a lot easier to say "if only we had the Golan Heights, you'd have electricity, and water" or "if it wasn't for the Zionists that stole our land, all the wealth of Palestine would be in our hands."

Iran is going to be hit, fast and hard. My guess is that it will be by the US, and/or France.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:11:28 PM EST
nah don't worry yourself.

hopefully they will say enough to get the towns blown away looking like a nice desert wasteland
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:59:30 PM EST
What is this? Like the 5th "final threat" from Iran with a deadline?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:17:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:19:30 PM EST by sailhertoo]
Why don't some brave soul go over there and take that shit-stain out?

Could it be like Hitler in WWII? They had chances to take him out but they didn't cause the war would be shorter (over there) to let him live and just self destruct.

EDIT - I hope I didn't break any coc by the shit-stain thing.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:39:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dace:
What is this? Like the 5th "final threat" from Iran with a deadline?




They are full of it, they talk about human rights abuse & readily admit to using child soldiers
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:35:31 AM EST
"I'll huff and I'll puff..."
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:41:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2007 1:45:25 AM EST by 500meterChamp]

Originally Posted By glockaboom:
Isn't it October 12th over there right now? I'd suspect that if they had something in the works it would happen either before dawn or when the sun sets over there.


12:41 PM Friday (IST) - Time in Israel

In Less than 12 hours we will find out if its a empty threat or not.

the sun will set at 5:13 PM there time

my money says nothing will happen
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 4:14:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2007 4:36:35 AM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]

Originally Posted By valheru21:

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
I dont think most people understand this guys threats are not empty! From his religious beliefs he is supposed to bring the messiah (which is actually the Antichrist of Christianity) to the world!


I doubt the 12th Imam is the Anti-Christ. Remember the Anti-Christ is accepted by the Jews as the Messiah. Fat chance a Muslim can pull that off. I strongly doubt the Anti-Christ will come from Islam. Islam is, in no way, related to Christianity.
Matt


Do you really have any clue what youre talking about..The Jews NEVER accept "Anti-Christ" as Messiah! They Flee to Jordan to the land of Edom actually after he claims to be GOD ! Only after 3 and 1/2 years of a peace treaty that the Jews will fall.

and besides "He" isn't ""THE ANTICHRIST"" he IS... Anti-CHRIST!!(Against)

And as far as Islam not being related to Christianity..you do know that all three religions..first the Jews then the Christian's then Islam, came from the same person don't you..Abraham!


Islam believes in Jesus..They reverence Moses..they believe the Old Testament is the inspired word of God !

They actually believe that the Mahdi(12 Imam) will descend with Jesus as his spokesman!

Some Hadiths for some other Imam that is highly regarded in the Shia branch of islam:

As-Safarini wrote in his poem describing the articles of belief: "Everything came in the Prophetic text from the true science. There is no deviation amongst them concerning the eloquent seal - Imam Muhammad Al Mahdi and Jesus."

As-Safarini said: "There are many opinions concerning Al Mahdi,Imam Mahdi ,al Muntazar -- even the false -- and it has been said that there is no Mahdi except Jesus. The authentic reports followed by truthful people is that Al Mahdi,Imam Mahdi ,al Muntazar is other than Jesus and that he will come before Jesus descends from the heavens


Mohammed said,
"Al Mahdi is (descended) from me.
His forehead will be radiant,
and his nose prominent.
He will fill the earth with both fairness and justice
just as it will have been filled by oppression and injustice,
and he will govern for seven years

"Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him,
will descend when the prince is Al Mahdi
and Al Mahdi will say to Jesus:
'Come, lead us in prayer.'
But he will decline saying:
'You are princes over each other
which is the Favor of Allah to this nation.'"


"A group from my nation will keep fighting for the truth
until Jesus, the son of Mary descends at dawn in the Mosque of Jerusalem.
He will approach Al Mahdi who will say:
'O Prophet of Allah, come, lead us in prayer.'
But he will decline saying:
'This nation has princes over each other.'"


Dont tell me the religions are not related



Jesus, the Imam and reality

origin of Islam

I could go on and give it ALL to you! But this is a survival thread not religion!
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 4:45:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2007 5:09:39 AM EST by valheru21]

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:

Do you really have any clue what youre talking about..The Jews NEVER accept "Anti-Christ" as Messiah! They Flee to Jordan to the land of Edom actually after he claims to be GOD ! Only after 3 and 1/2 years of a peace treaty that the Jews will fall.


Yes, I do. and yes, they do.


and besides "He" isn't ""THE ANTICHRIST"" he IS... Anti-CHRIST!!(Against)


Well, you said THE Anti-christ.


And as far as Islam not being related to Christianity..you do know that all three religions..first the Jews then the Christian's then Islam, came from the same person don't you..Abraham!


Not quite - it's a nice story, though. Islam is a result of polytheism where one supporter of ONE of their plethora of gods subordinated the followers of all the others. Now, they're mono-theistic.



Islam believes in Jesus..They reverence Moses..they believe the Old Testament is the inspired word of God !

They actually believe that the Mahdi(12 Imam) will descend with Jesus as his spokesman!


If you want people to believe a lie - throw in a little truth. If you want to start a new religion, leverage the old ones.

Either way, the 12th Imam may end up playing a part - but not as the Anti-Christ.
Matt
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 4:53:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By GaCracker:

Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
The Iranians are not in any position to attack anybody. It doesn't serve any of their interests to do so. In many foreign policy circles the conventional wisdom is that it will play out thusly; 1) Israel does a "preemptive" strike on Iran for some perceived threat, 2) Iran is forced to respond or lose legitimacy with it's own population, 3) The US hammers Iran hard, 4) The resulting riots in Gaza and the West bank allow Israel to enter and occupy, further driving "Palestinians" out of the areas and strengthening it's grip on a bit of real estate they dearly want. The ball is squarely in Israel's court, as usual.

For all their sound and fury, the Iranians aren't really as dangerous to our interests as some of our Sunni "allies". They are, no doubt, supplying their Shiite brothers in Iraq. They won't, however, attempt any sort of offensive move that would trigger a larger conflict with the US. Watch how much support our Arab "friends" give us if we allow Israel to drag us into a fight with Iran.

I'm not sure it's all worth the American lives. We've still got that bunch running around in Afghanistan and Pakistan to obliterate. They're the ones who attacked us.

J.


Your statement presumes that WE know what THEIR interests really are. I agree that from a rational point of view you are completely right. However, what makes us think these guys are anywhere near rational?

Just another reason to revere Jimmy Carter. Right!



The Iranians are as rational an actor as you are going to find in the Middle East. They have some degree of accountability to their citizens through a weak election system, they aren't "Arabs", and they have a taste for Western goods. Most of their posturing is for public consumption at home. The day they don't have Israel as a straw man to beat around is the day they have to explain to their "voters" why the Islamic Revolution has turned into the same old same old. They'd like to expand their influence to include southern Iraq, the Shiite areas, but not at the expense of going to all-out war with the U.S. They saw what we did and are doing in Iraq and why would you want to invite that road show to Tehran?

I don't really see what expanding our war in the Middle East is going to profit the United States. If someone can explain what it is going to get us I'd sure like to hear about it.

J.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 5:08:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2007 5:24:50 AM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]

Originally Posted By valheru21:

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:

Do you really have any clue what youre talking about..The Jews NEVER accept "Anti-Christ" as Messiah! They Flee to Jordan to the land of Edom actually after he claims to be GOD ! Only after 3 and 1/2 years of a peace treaty that the Jews will fall.


Yes, I do. and yes, they do.


and besides "He" isn't ""THE ANTICHRIST"" he IS... Anti-CHRIST!!(Against)


Well, you said THE Anti-christ.


And as far as Islam not being related to Christianity..you do know that all three religions..first the Jews then the Christian's then Islam, came from the same person don't you..Abraham!


Not quite - it's a nice story, though. Islam is a result of polytheism where one supporter of ONE of their plethora of gods subordinated the followers of all the others. Now, they're mono-theistic.



Islam believes in Jesus..They reverence Moses..they believe the Old Testament is the inspired word of God !

They actually believe that the Mahdi(12 Imam) will descend with Jesus as his spokesman!


If you want people to believe a lie - throw in a little truth. If you want to start a new religion, leverage the old ones.

Either way, the 12th Imam may end up being the false prophet, but not the Anti-Christ.
Matt



Right I did make a misstatement! I called him THE antichrist! But is more of the Ideology AGAINST CHRIST!

There is none more against Christ than Islam!


Not quite - it's a nice story, though. Islam is a result of polytheism where one supporter of ONE of their plethora of gods subordinated the followers of all the others. Now, they're mono-theistic.


Right..In a way! The Moon God! out of 360 demi-gods,Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah was the god that was chosen..hence the crescent!

This god was known as "al-ilah Hubal", in Mecca where muhammed began his cult, al-ilah which means "the god" and each local tribe would call al-ilah for whatever god they chose to worship depending on the situation.

in 610 al-ilah became Allah..still with the meaning more inclusively now "THE GOD"...and Islam was born

but the origin of the peoples of Islam are born of Abraham through Ishmael.."those who have no inheritance " then the12 tribes(sons) of Ishmaeland on into the Arabians.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 9:20:37 AM EST
What's the time difference again? Do I still have time to grab lunch first? The pizza guy won't deliver to the bunker anymore.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 12:07:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
What's the time difference again? Do I still have time to grab lunch first? The pizza guy won't deliver to the bunker anymore.



Well it's about 4am in Tehran now, guess the Imam had a prior engagement.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:00:48 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
height=8
Originally Posted By GaCracker:
height=8
Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
The Iranians are not in any position to attack anybody. It doesn't serve any of their interests to do so. In many foreign policy circles the conventional wisdom is that it will play out thusly; 1) Israel does a "preemptive" strike on Iran for some perceived threat, 2) Iran is forced to respond or lose legitimacy with it's own population, 3) The US hammers Iran hard, 4) The resulting riots in Gaza and the West bank allow Israel to enter and occupy, further driving "Palestinians" out of the areas and strengthening it's grip on a bit of real estate they dearly want. The ball is squarely in Israel's court, as usual.

For all their sound and fury, the Iranians aren't really as dangerous to our interests as some of our Sunni "allies". They are, no doubt, supplying their Shiite brothers in Iraq. They won't, however, attempt any sort of offensive move that would trigger a larger conflict with the US. Watch how much support our Arab "friends" give us if we allow Israel to drag us into a fight with Iran.

I'm not sure it's all worth the American lives. We've still got that bunch running around in Afghanistan and Pakistan to obliterate. They're the ones who attacked us.

J.


Your statement presumes that WE know what THEIR interests really are. I agree that from a rational point of view you are completely right. However, what makes us think these guys are anywhere near rational?

Just another reason to revere Jimmy Carter. Right!



The Iranians are as rational an actor as you are going to find in the Middle East. They have some degree of accountability to their citizens through a weak election system, they aren't "Arabs", and they have a taste for Western goods. Most of their posturing is for public consumption at home. The day they don't have Israel as a straw man to beat around is the day they have to explain to their "voters" why the Islamic Revolution has turned into the same old same old. They'd like to expand their influence to include southern Iraq, the Shiite areas, but not at the expense of going to all-out war with the U.S. They saw what we did and are doing in Iraq and why would you want to invite that road show to Tehran?

I don't really see what expanding our war in the Middle East is going to profit the United States. If someone can explain what it is going to get us I'd sure like to hear about it.

J.


Jeep,

While I do not agree that the Iranians are the most rational peoples in the Middle East,
I do agree with you about the posturing for "public consumption." Well said. However, describing their citizens as "voters" seems quite a stretch to me. You are 100% right as concerns the younger parts of the population and wanting to be more western. However, at this point in time, that constituency has little power.

My main point, however, was simply that the West, in general, does not understand their thinking enough to ascribe any particular meaning to their actions or words.

Finally, explaining how the war in the Middle East will benefit the USA is beyond my means, except to say that, to some degree at least, I agree with the Administration's position that it's better to fight'em there than on Main St. USA. I do not buy this hook, line, and sinker, but it does make a certain amount of sense. At least it has, in part, inspired me to be more prepared.

P.S. I think the most cunning and rational people in the Middle East are the Saudis.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top