If OPSEC fails - AR15.COM

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:13:22 PM EDT

Guys,

This thread might get out of hand––which would be a shame––but I'd like some feedback on something that's been running through my mind this week.

I think most of us agree that we can't/shouldn't go it alone if SHTF. I think most of us have talked about having put feelers out to various neighbors, etc. With that in mind, I broached the subject of preps with a good neighbor.

Solid guy. Mechanical genius. I figured I'd need him if SHTF. I told him that what was mine would be his...as long as

a) he was there for me.

b) he maintained OPSEC.

I was at this guy's house just two days ago...doing the backyard party thing. I saw his sister show up with her little kids. I saw his brother show up with brand new twins...and it got me thinking. If the doo doo hits the fan, my neighbor isn't going to let his nieces and nephews starve. He's going to break OPSEC. It's gonna happen.

Now what? How do you put the genie back in the bottle?

I think most of us have talked to somebody in the hopes of setting up a support system. But was that smart?

None of us can stay awake all day and night. None of us have eyes in the back of our heads. But which is the greater evil...seeking a support system or maintaining OPSEC and going it alone?

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:23:17 PM EDT

[#1]

Not sure what you can do now that the subject has been brought up and offers made.

IMO, stuff like this is only discussed between family and friends so close that they may as well be family. Makes the whole thing much easier.

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:30:09 PM EDT

[#2]

If the guy is serious about prepping he's already taken his family into consideration.

A few things quickly come to mind.

It will never matter as to what agreement the two of you may ever make the obligation and duty to family trumps them all.

Besides, What do you know about his brother and sister? What do they do? I'd feel pretty foolish being quick to alienate two folks who may possibly have qualifications and skills that I wasn't familiar with. Imagine the score if she was something along the line of an RN in an Shock- Trauma Center?.

Loosen up a bit and don't be so quick to show all your cards next time.

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:33:40 PM EDT

[#3]

Exactly! Family comes first, then whoever you can trust like your friends or neighbor. Equip your children with your weapons, or protect them at all costs. Of course you are right about your neighbor, his family is going to come first, unless they are already dead from the Fan. But the way I envision SHTF, it would be difficult to get to place to place, and would be better to be safe at home than to go anywhere. So your neighbor's relatives would have to survive the travel to make it to his house or vice versa. Either way, OPSEC is breached and he probably knows what you have and what you are capable of. Good luck with your situation and protect your property.

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:40:41 PM EDT

[#4]

I would say if you already broke the ice, honesty would be the best policy at this point. I would just discuss the concern, and talk about some possible solutions.

Posted: 5/29/2009 8:43:21 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I would say if you already broke the ice, honesty would be the best policy at this point. I would just discuss the concern, and talk about some possible solutions.

You know, I was just thinking that.

Posted: 5/29/2009 11:49:22 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would say if you already broke the ice, honesty would be the best policy at this point. I would just discuss the concern, and talk about some possible solutions.

You know, I was just thinking that.

Well, if you do, you will likely have broken OPSEC -again...

Posted: 5/30/2009 3:09:44 AM EDT

[#7]

Add a gymnasium wing to your house for the refugees, and keep your eyes peeled for a good deal on large lots of milsurp cots.

I probably would have avoided the "wedding vows" with the neighbor until the S actually HTF.

Posted: 5/30/2009 3:45:58 AM EDT

[#8]

If your neighbor isn't serious enough to have started prepping for himself, then he isn't going to be as handy as you would think. I would let him know that he needs to start prepping for the family that he plans on helping when the flag goes up. Next time, feel this stuff out long before you talk to him about it.

Posted: 5/30/2009 4:05:59 AM EDT

[#9]

"Add a gymnasium wing to your house for the refugees, and keep your eyes peeled for a good deal on large lots of milsurp cots.

I probably would have avoided the "wedding vows" with the neighbor until the S actually HTF. "

THIS.....genie out of bottle, no way to put back. Lay low, avoid the subject in the future.....but know your preps will be his preps if SHTF.

Posted: 5/30/2009 7:07:32 AM EDT

[#10]

I try to recruit and educate my friends and neighbors, but I never make them offers like that. Be a bit more careful in the future, you've already added your neighbor and his extended family to your dependents.

Posted: 5/30/2009 7:32:20 AM EDT

[#11]

1. Name the biggest piece of shit to ever hit the fan in the last 100 years in your neighborhood.
2. Calculate how long the shit was on the fan following that impact.
3. Calculate what is needed to survive that length of time.
4. Calculate the number of folks you'll have to provide for over that shit.
5. Multiply.

My answers:

1. About a 6.x quake.
2. A couple of hours.
3. Not much.
4. A few dozen.
5. Not much.

If I take that to the ridiculous extreme:

1. A 8.5 earthquake
2. A week to two.
4. A gallon of water per person, 2000 calories, some simple shelter.
4. A few dozen.
5. 36 people x 1 x 7 = 252 gallons of water - check
36 people x 2000 x 7 = about 250 MREs/equal - close/possibly
36 people = several tents, tarps, and blankets - check

Unfortunately I made the mistake of living in a place just chock-a-block full of Americans. I'm not going to turn away a starving, injured, thirsty, cold American while I have the ability to help. Sorry, wasn't raised that way. I'm not stupid, and I'm not going to put myself in the hurt locker giving away the farm but I'll do as much as I can for as long as I can. The other nice thing about living in America is that we not only help our neighbors, but we help our neighbors neighbors. When a hurricane hits the east coast, American rescue teams from across the nation are flying at their expense with their dogs to help. When there's a fire 75 miles away my city sends one of it's pumpers full of firefighters to help. When a disaster strikes we donate money to the American Red Cross. When a farmer lost his barn in a fire those for miles around came to help raise another. It's an American tradition dating back to the beginning of our history and it's so sad to see the bunker mentality of the selfish generation.

Posted: 5/30/2009 10:23:05 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I try to recruit and educate my friends and neighbors, but I never make them offers like that. Be a bit more careful in the future, you've already added your neighbor and his extended family to your dependents.

You forgot someone.

All his neighbors' dependents' dependents and friends etc, etc.

Good luck taking care of the world...

Posted: 5/30/2009 10:39:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would say if you already broke the ice, honesty would be the best policy at this point. I would just discuss the concern, and talk about some possible solutions.

You know, I was just thinking that.

Well, if you do, you will likely have broken OPSEC -again...

I realize it's not a popular idea on this board, but I think there are some times when breaking OPSEC is a good idea. This thread may not illustrate a good time for doing it, but I would say there are good times to do it. If you meet someone who is preparing(and by preparing I mean REALLY preparing to survive, not just stockpiling guns and ammo), and get to know them well enough, it might turn out to be a good thing for you if you let them know you're looking for something. Then you'll have two people looking for what you need, as well as what they need(if they let you know what they're looking for).
Aside from things you're looking for, sometimes people stumble into mother lodes of stuff. I wish I had known a bunch of other survivalists back around 1990 when I bought 120 ammo cans. Maybe then I wouldn't have ended up giving most of them away for almost nothing.

Posted: 5/30/2009 11:21:38 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Guys,

I broached the subject of preps with a good neighbor.

Solid guy. Mechanical genius. I figured I'd need him if SHTF. I told him that what was mine would be his...as long as

a) he was there for me.

b) he maintained OPSEC.

I was at this guy's house just two days ago...doing the backyard party thing. I saw his sister show up with her little kids. I saw his brother show up with brand new twins...and it got me thinking. If the doo doo hits the fan, my neighbor isn't going to let his nieces and nephews starve. He's going to break OPSEC. It's gonna happen.

Now what? How do you put the genie back in the bottle?

You don't , you need to get setup for grain storage and bread baking, maybe bury some stuff
this will enable you to feed many more people for very little.

I think most of us have talked to somebody in the hopes of setting up a support system. But was that smart?

None of us can stay awake all day and night. None of us have eyes in the back of our heads. But which is the greater evil...seeking a support system or maintaining OPSEC and going it alone?

Posted: 5/30/2009 3:33:44 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
If your neighbor isn't serious enough to have started prepping for himself, then he isn't going to be as handy as you would think. I would let him know that he needs to start prepping for the family that he plans on helping when the flag goes up. Next time, feel this stuff out long before you talk to him about it.

This, what else does he bring to the table?

Posted: 6/15/2009 1:03:16 PM EDT

[#16]

I had told two friends to bring themselves and their families to my
home. They, unknown to me, told half-a-dozen other families to come too
- "He's a good guy, I'm sure he won't mind!" Well, I did mind...

Good thread from a guy who hosted Katrina refugees.

Posted: 6/15/2009 1:25:16 PM EDT

[#17]

The idea of OPSEC is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

With the exception of weapons and defenses, I’m pretty open.

Speaking for myself, when the SHTF I’ll have a small army with me. Strength in numbers.
Making friends is the best survival prep anyone can make.

Posted: 6/15/2009 1:36:41 PM EDT

[#18]

I don't really have anyone near me that shares similar interests, aside from my fiance. Bunch of people in Texas, but that'd be quite a drive if SHTF.

Posted: 6/15/2009 1:42:19 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

The idea of OPSEC is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

If the water went out for a week in 110f, and 200 neighbors knew I had a huge tank, bad things would ensue.

Posted: 6/15/2009 1:43:09 PM EDT

[#20]

I think you are going about it all wrong. Never ever tell anyone anything that you are doing until you know how they think as well as their families.

You need to go to them and during the course of a conversation about the latest crap going on around the world, just say to them, It kind of starts to make a man think about things the way this world is going. Then say something like I am not sure if I am crazy or not, and you have always seemed to be smart and have your head on straight, do you think I am over reacting or what? Also how did you talk to your family about what's going on in the world and what you would do if something happened?

You get the idea of what to say and how to say it to him. Ask a question that will answer the question you asked as well as the questions you didn't ask but want answers to. If he says we are worried about it but don't really know what to do or which way to go, so what can we do? Then you know they think like you, and are just lacking leadership and you can provide that for them. Now if he says Oh those crazy ass survival people and all their guns and on and on and on, you just smile, laugh it off and say I kind of figure that to. I knew you were pretty smart and I could count on you for an honest and straight answer. Then walk away and NEVER bring it up with him again.

No matter what he says, you side with him. He is right.

Posted: 6/15/2009 2:36:40 PM EDT

[#21]

OPSEC?

more concerned with division of labor... it's not the manhattan project

folks who won't yak my freaking ear off all the time would be nice... does that count?