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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 8:46:10 PM EDT by BigMat]
I figured I would ask this group as it pertains most closely with the interests I have in the firearm. I will try to avoid the "Tell me what to buy" and keep the thread reasonable- I feel like the gun I want should exist, I just can't think of it.


My wife recently jumped on board with prepping, so I got a green light, sort of. We are hitting debt much harder, which limits funds- Due to this, and my nature, I am looking for as flexible of firearm as possible, such that I only need the one. My wife will be using the firearm too, but she is alright with recoil.

purpose- in order of need
1. Ranch/home defense
2. some hunting
3. some plinking

Here is what I am looking for-
-Common caliber, as in buy at Walmart if need be- (I lean 308)
-sub $1000, less the better, I like to keep my money as much as possible
-0-300+ M functional range, not to hunt, but wouldn't want to be on the wrong end, even at distance
-reliable- worth note on this- My wife HATES AR's, I have had a few crap out on me while shooting, and my buddy had a Kaboom, all with nice reputable ARs, and trust is something she doesn't gain back quickly, especially when her life may depend on it.
-Iron sight capable, not needed, but a nice touch
-light enough to carry, a distance, I live in CO and hike/shoot at 9000+ feet, I am too lazy to deal with a 12 pound gun
-I'd ideally like to be able to hunt deer sized game with it, but at close range <100 yards. I tend to stalk hunt and come from a recurve bow realm, getting close doesn't bother me.
-Robust, as in, maybe give it to my kids someday.
-I would like to avoid depending on corrosive ammo, I am heading for the Pacific Northwest and saltwater/constant rain has me worried

Heres what I don't care about-
It can be bolt action/lever, I am on board with that, it can even be a shotgun if this is the best bet

Here's what I am leaning towards, and where I need some help,
I like the idea of the 1903A3, but the only ones I can find are the $750 Gibbs one's, which I have heard less than stellar things about (if wrong, please correct me, I would love to be done thinking about this and start shooting).
I also like the idea of the Zastava M63 Mauser, but I can only find that from Mitchells Mauser, and his prices are steep considering the product.
I have looked into a few Enfields, but I am not too know sure on which are OK with modern loads and which may blow up in my face, especially considering they are converted
I owned a Ruger Gunsite, and it was alright, but found a way to get it heavy and expensive fast, and I just turned it into a heavy and expensive hunting rifle eventually (may still be my best bet).

As of this moment, I am leasing towards a Mossberg 500 or a Win 870, and just give up on the ability to get range for the sake of everything else.

If you all could think of something similar that I am missing I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Matt
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 8:48:40 PM EDT
Well you have a lot of specifics there. I am a Big fan of the AR platform, as well as the M1A. But looking at your criteria I would suggest an AK in 7.62 x 39, Last I checked Walmart still sells that caliber. They are robust, reliable, capable of 300 meter shots, 30 round mags, and will take big game. Though I am not a big fan of the AK, I do respect it, and still have mine even though I am lacking ammo for it.

Other options I would look at are used Fal's, G3's, CETME's, and even the M1 Carbine.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 9:20:52 PM EDT by mylt1]
30-30 lever gun would do what you want and depending on the model you can get a "scout" rail for forward mounted optics.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:43:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 9:44:26 PM EDT by TheSurvivalist]
Since your pretty much crossing AR's off your list, with your criteria I would pick one of the following:

PTR91..can be had under your price range if you look around, but it might be heavier than you want and beats up the brass if reloading is an option for you.
30-30 Lever gun.....might want to also look at a Browning lever action if your into levers, box mag fed and wide variety of calibers.
Saiga .308 AK......$500-$600...not super acurate, but pretty decent, mags can be an issue and you'll have to decide if you want to convert it or not.
SGL-21 AK....What can I say that you don't already know about an AK,

Each have their pluses and minuses, so you will have to weigh them for yourself.

Also, if you want a 1903 A3, AIM and some other places usually have the ones with the synthetic stocks in the $500.00 range.

You could always go the SKS route and buy two, one for you and the misses, and still have money left to buy an nice bolt gun for longer range and hunting.


Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:48:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 9:49:44 PM EDT by parabellum_9x19]
EDIT: Well I just now re-read your post and saw that you already owned the rifle I was going to suggest, so disregard this, but I'll leave it up for others to consider.

Given that you pretty much took ARs off the table, and you lean .308, i'm going to suggest the Ruger Gunsite Scout:

Ten round capacity.
Optics ready.
Sling ready.
Flash hider.

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 9:55:15 PM EDT by TheOTHERmaninblack]
SKS, if you can find one. Basically a combloc .30-30. You can kit the whole thing out for around $600 with ammo. The myth that they're still all over the place for $200 or less is pretty much busted, but even at $400, they're still a pretty decent rifle.

AK, depending on the type will stand you in very good stead and may be more versatile.

Saigas are a mishmash of both, and also well within your price range with the added advantage of wider caliber spread.

Gonna be hard to keep a milsurp style .308 under ten pounds, and I haven't been hearing good things about the CETMEs anyway. And a .308 defensive rifle is kinda hard to sell to the authorities.

A .30-30 lever gun is a decent choice, and very light in the older Winchesters, though I wouldn't exactly call them 300 yard shooters in most hands.



ETA: sniped
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:55:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2011 10:09:01 PM EDT by paddymurphy]
As far as long guns. Look at the youth multibarrel kits from Rossi. $300 and you have a single shot 20g, 22lr and .243. Then you still have 500-600 (if you scope it or buy accessories) to haunt the used gun counter looking for a used rifle or shotgun(go 20 gauge and you can have one shotgun caliber). Then you and your wife each have a gun. If that rifle or shotgun is in a different caliber, send the gun back to rossi and have a fourth barrel added in that caliber.

Single shots aren't sexy but a scoped .243 is nothing I want to go up against and it will have good range for the longer shots in the mountain. I like lever guns but if my choice for survival in colorado was a 30/30 lever or .243 single shot I would take the .243.

Another option in lever guns hunt around for an old winchester 88 (i think) in 308––levergun or as some one else mentioned the BLR. I would say a savage 99 but the days of those in gunshops for $400 are long gone. Yes I still kick myself for not buying them at 300-350 a pop.

Mil surp, have you considered the Moisin with a turned down bolt? I know you want to avoid corrosive, but if you clean properly after you shoot it will probably do less damage than the pacific north west environment. The SKS would be good with better range than most 30/30 ammo (similar ballistics better bullet).
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:23:49 PM EDT
My 2cents
If you try to make one gun do all it won't do anything well.

With a tight budget there is no need to buy a brand new gun.

I would suggest a used bolt action,brand name,medium weight,common caliber,you can likely find something decent with some cosmetic problems
with a scope for $400. It should have no broken or missing parts but possibly some normal hunting wear .
Winchester,Ruger,Remingtom,Savage. 308,270,

At some point you will also want a used pump shotgun. Screw in chokes,12ga This will be cheaper than the rifle so maybe get it first. Think about
$250 for a mossberg to $350 for a Remington or Winchester.

I like the lever action 30/30 but It won't be guite as flexible as a scoped bolt action and truthfully they are more expensive

The milsurp guns are fun and some of them can be cheap but they can be difficult to mount optics,some are in odd calibers and some are too heavy for general purpose use.

Ask around of friends,family and co- workers. You never know what uncle Harry might have tucked away that he bought for peanuts 20 years ago and would be happy to get what he paid
for it
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:25:23 PM EDT
Your post screams AK.

It's the only "budget" minded semi auto rifle that fits your criteria is affordable to shoot has decent ammo available for hunting now etc.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:53:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mac1020:
Well you have a lot of specifics there. I am a Big fan of the AR platform, as well as the M1A. But looking at your criteria I would suggest an AK in 7.62 x 39, Last I checked Walmart still sells that caliber. They are robust, reliable, capable of 300 meter shots, 30 round mags, and will take big game. Though I am not a big fan of the AK, I do respect it, and still have mine even though I am lacking ammo for it.

Other options I would look at are used Fal's, G3's, CETME's, and even the M1 Carbine.


I would also recommend the AK in either 7.62 or 5.54. Not sure if Walmart carries the 5.54 but I know Ammoman.com carries both and either is priced reasonably. If you take your $1000 budget, purchase the AK, you'll have enough to purchase a good handgun as well. My recommendation would either be a Glock 17 or 34, or a S&W M&P9.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:55:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mac1020:
Well you have a lot of specifics there. I am a Big fan of the AR platform, as well as the M1A. But looking at your criteria I would suggest an AK in 7.62 x 39, Last I checked Walmart still sells that caliber. They are robust, reliable, capable of 300 meter shots, 30 round mags, and will take big game. Though I am not a big fan of the AK, I do respect it, and still have mine even though I am lacking ammo for it.

Other options I would look at are used Fal's, G3's, CETME's, and even the M1 Carbine.


I would also recommend the AK in either 7.62 or 5.54. Not sure if Walmart carries the 5.54 but I know Ammoman.com carries both and either is priced reasonably. If you take your $1000 budget, purchase the AK, you'll have enough to purchase a good handgun as well. My recommendation would either be a Glock 17 or 34, or a S&W M&P9.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 11:53:18 PM EDT
What about a Marlin 1894? It is a great little rifle... it comes with iron sights but will accept glass easily... it is light, has a 10 round capacity, and is available in popular revolver calibers - 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 colt. Ammunition is reasonably priced and widely available. There is also a wide variety of ammunition choices in each caliber and it is easy to reload for if you're a reloader.

If you already have a revolver in one of the calibers that the 1894 is chambered for, get the version to match your revolver caliber. For plinking at lease you can share ammo between the 2...



Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:16:23 AM EDT
My .02 and not in any particular order....

-Higher end AK (reliable, cheaper ammo, semi auto, higher ends ones are semi-accurate).
-Marlin 336 (reliable, reasonably priced ammo, pretty accurate for the ranges it was designed for).
-Strip your gunsight (Good all around gun. Doesn't need a lot of stuff to do it's job well. This is likely the cheapest option up front as you already have the gun. the .308 will let you hunt some pretty good sized game more effectively.).

1903s, Mausers, and Enfields are all good, solid, reliable guns. But the Enfield is generally a bear to feed, and the above stated sound like they will fit the bill a bit better for you.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:20:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 12:23:33 AM EDT by Warlord_Doc]

Maybe a Mini-30? Not a great gun, but it's a 7.62 and light.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:43:34 AM EDT
Look at the Remington 700 series, in .308.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:18:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FreedomUSCG:
Look at the Remington 700 series, in .308.
Get a used one, and save your money for the real important things.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:58:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 2:10:51 AM EDT by 1179]
I just revamped my Goto from AR to a SGl 21. This is a Vid from a Fellow Board Member " FAC" do a review on the folding stock version.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/137442_Need_advice.html
































Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:59:23 AM EDT
a no brainer in my opinion. find a clean, used remington pump gun in .308. pref a carbine. reliable, more than accurate enough, light, lots of punch, fast handling...i could go on and on. i didnt check, but a new one might be within that budget. i say used because rem quality has fallen off tremendously in the last 10 or 12 yrs. go to a gun shop and handle one and i think you will see this meets all your criteria.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 2:53:22 AM EDT
Get a Garand. Everyone should own at least one.

CMP Rifle Sales
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 3:21:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 3:37:05 AM EDT by jchewie1]
^ Garand is a great suggestion except for his habit of stalking to close range.

Originally Posted By mylt1:
30-30 lever gun would do what you want and depending on the model you can get a "scout" rail for forward mounted optics.



This was my first thought. Winchester or Marlin variety. $250 to $350 used in good shape in my area.
One local shop has a used Marlin 336 in 30-30 listed for $325.


If not that, a Remington 870 (or Mossberg) shotgun with a 26 or 28 inch field barrel and a rifled slug barrel, new for under $400.
I use my 870 with rifled slug barrel (iron sights) for deer and can confidently place shots in a 5 inch circle from a seated hunting position at 100 yards.

There are lots of used bolt actions (Ruger M77, Remington 700, etc etc) in popular deer calibers that would serve you well for well under $500 all day long.


Why does your wife hate ARs? The black plastic "scary" look or something else?

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 3:23:20 AM EDT
Remington 700 Series or Savage Modell 11.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 3:33:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 3:34:04 AM EDT by BULLDAWG_556]
Garand, and have it rebarreled to .308... or a used M1A. These can be had for 900-1000 used....
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 4:38:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 4:44:25 AM EDT by 83rdrecon]
Savage model 99d in .308 or Remington 7600 in .308 with 10 round detachable mags and a scout scope should fit the bill nicely.

Savage mdl 99D (detachable mag .308)


Remington 7600 in 308

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:18:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigMat:

I like the idea of the 1903A3, but the only ones I can find are the $750 Gibbs one's, which I have heard less than stellar things about (if wrong, please correct me, I would love to be done thinking about this and start shooting). Look around for an M1917 Enfield. I like mine a lot more than my M1903A3, though both are great rifles. The Enfields are generally less expensive than Springfields. Also, keep an eye out for Bubba's sporterized Springfield or Enfield. They can be had for very little compared to a collector's correct and matching rifle.

I also like the idea of the Zastava M63 Mauser, but I can only find that from Mitchells Mauser, and his prices are steep considering the product.

I have looked into a few Enfields, but I am not too know sure on which are OK with modern loads and which may blow up in my face, especially considering they are converted. Ishapores were factory chambered in 7.62x51mm and can handle any surplus ammo that is considered safe in other guns. They can also handle .308 Win ammo just fine, but you should definitely have a competent gunsmith check its headspace first. Ishapores are not known to blow up. They have very strong actions.

I owned a Ruger Gunsite, and it was alright, but found a way to get it heavy and expensive fast, and I just turned it into a heavy and expensive hunting rifle eventually (may still be my best bet) Why not just spend a few dollars lightening it? Put on a lighter stock, take off the crap, make a gun that will fit your purposes?

As of this moment, I am leasing towards a Mossberg 500 or a Win 870, and just give up on the ability to get range for the sake of everything else. A shotgun sacrifices too much if it's to be your primary or only weapon.


Honestly, it sounds like you need to pick something in your budget, buy it and some ammo, and get to work on the range. Shoot it until you're comfortable with it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:20:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gubernator:
Get a Garand. Everyone should own at least one.

CMP Rifle Sales

What he said

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:21:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 5:29:53 AM EDT by showpare]
Originally Posted By BigMat:
-reliable- worth note on this- My wife HATES AR's, I have had a few crap out on me while shooting, and my buddy had a Kaboom, all with nice reputable ARs, and trust is something she doesn't gain back quickly, especially when her life may depend on it.


Really? I'd love to hear about the kaboom and the crapping out of the reputable AR's.



purpose- in order of need
1. Ranch/home defense
2. some hunting
3. some plinking

-Common caliber, as in buy at Walmart if need be- (I lean 308)
-sub $1000, less the better,

-0-300+ M functional range,

not to hunt,
-reliable-

-Iron sight capable, not needed, but a nice touch

-light enough to carry,

I'd ideally like to be able to hunt deer sized game with it, but at close range <100 yards.

-Robust, as in, maybe give it to my kids someday.

Heres what I don't care about-
It can be bolt action/lever,
even be a shotgun if this is the best bet

1903A3,

Zastava M63 Mauser,

Enfields, modern loads and which may blow up in my face,

As of this moment, I am leasing towards a Mossberg 500 or a Win 870, and just give up on the ability to get range for the sake of everything else.


Maybe pick the type of firearm you want: Rifle, bolt or semi, or shotgun


I owned a Ruger Gunsite, and it was alright, but found a way to get it heavy and expensive fast, and I just turned it into a heavy and expensive hunting rifle eventually.


How did it get more expensive? Scope? Loaded and wet is less than 9 pounds. Did you sell it?


-I would like to avoid depending on corrosive ammo, I am heading for the Pacific Northwest and saltwater/constant rain has me worried.


Either buy commercial ammo from Walmart or clean the barrel with soap and water or generic windex and then finish with oil.




-reliable- worth note on this- My wife HATES AR's,


Was she military or LEO?
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:33:31 AM EDT

I see a lot of suggestions for a Garand. I love them, too, but I don't generally recommend them for SHTF purposes because of their sensitivity to commercial loads. Garands fed a consistent diet of commercial ammo with the wrong pressure curve will bend or break their op rod. You can get around this by installing an adjustable gas plug, but then you'll need to tune for different loads.

A Garand would make a fine rifle for your purposes if you commit to going one of two ways with it:

1. Buy a Garand and a bunch of surplus M2 ball ammo.

2. Buy a Garand, an adjustable gas plug, and a bunch of your favorite commercial round. Then, tune the gas plug to the round.

If you buy a surplus Garand and shoot everything under the sun through it without modification you're just begging for your Garand's op rod to break, leaving you with a heavy and expensive straight-pull rifle.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:35:03 AM EDT
Sounds like an AK, lightweight, robust, good ammo selection. May not be an heirloom type gun but it it will last that long.

Home defense is covered, hunting is covered, plinking is covered as ammo is relatively inexpensive.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 6:16:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mac1020:
Well you have a lot of specifics there. I am a Big fan of the AR platform, as well as the M1A. But looking at your criteria I would suggest an AK in 7.62 x 39, Last I checked Walmart still sells that caliber. They are robust, reliable, capable of 300 meter shots, 30 round mags, and will take big game. Though I am not a big fan of the AK, I do respect it, and still have mine even though I am lacking ammo for it.

Other options I would look at are used Fal's, G3's, CETME's, and even the M1 Carbine.


Pretty much this. I like the M1 carbine but the round is a bit anemic.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 6:48:05 AM EDT
This isn't a difficult decision to make...go with the 30/30. Rock solid dependability and the ammo is EVERYWHERE!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:02:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:03:45 AM EDT
I had a Rem. 7600 in 308 that I never should have sold.
Second to that a Marlin in 30-30.
You can roll into any place with a gun dept. and find ammo.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:09:23 AM EDT
+1 for the remington 760/7600 in 308

detachable mags (10rd are avalible)
nearly any bullet type ( not sure if heavy grain will fit)
pump so quick
easy to scope or use sights
light weight for hunting

––-look around for a std weight and lenght barrel and you will have 90% of what you want
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:32:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 7:56:39 AM EDT by BigMat]
Thanks everybody- appreciate the feedback, gave me a lot to think about that I just axed out of hand-

I like the idea of the lever gun quite a bit and it just didn't really register to me as a viable option, for whatever dumb reason. I do seem to be screaming AK in my post, but never put that one together either. You know when yourself in a rut and just can't think your way past a couple of guns, that was me.


I appreciate the Garand idea too, any one familiar with the Shuffs Mini-G, and range reports?



As to the questions-
I didn't want to name manufactures as we never diagnosed the Kaboom as ammo/rifle, and it wasn't my rifle, I can say for certain that it happened, and the rifle was totaled, and he was shooting quality factory brass cased ammo out of a 20" factory built upper form a "top-tier" builder. It stretched the lower and upper recievers and blew the bolt to pieces. My friend never trusted the barrel for that matter again and just pulled off non-critical pieces.

As to why my wife isn't on board, outside of the Kaboom mentioned, I have/do own several ARs, over the years, and all of them have had some sort of serious malfunction while shooting, again, I haven't taken the time to diagnose why as my concern wasn't why, but that it did. My wife has been there for several malfunctions and is much less eager to stick to the platform considering we have owned many others that have worked, constantly. As to the ARs, I have owned one "cheap" AR, a Del-ton, worked perfectly for about 9 thousand rounds before I decided I need a gun from a "top-tier" builder. Well, I got them and haven't had one be 100% sense.


My wife wasn't LEO of .mil, just done quite a bit of shooting and she isn't emotionally vested in any rifle and trust is paramount to her for self-defense, momma bear and all that.


As to the Ruger GSR- I did own one, and ended up selling it (not sure if that was a good decision).
Things I liked-it was all sorts of handy, 10 rounds in a bolt gun were plenty for my needs (hopefully), I liked having iron sights (even though i didn't like the iron sights on the gun)
Why I sold it, I had a leupold 2.5 IER scope on it, but I felt it didn't do a 308 punching a 1-2 MOA group justice, figured I may as well have just run a 45-70 lever gun for the ranges I was shooting to, as the Leupold didn't allow for adjusting range well, as the it had hunting style turrets and they were capped and the reticle was just crosshairs. I could set it to 300 and get range, but then the whole benefit of the scout concept was off, or set it close, tear up two eye shooting, but hope I didn't need to throw any Hail Marys. So I threw a nice 2-7 scope on it traditionally, and relalized I had a 9 pound hunting rifle that could follow up with 5 rounds faster, which is cool, but not that cool. I tired an Aimpoint H-1 and it was fun, but then I really may as well have just had a 45-70. why put a 4 MOA dot on a 2 MOA rifle? I feel like I should have tried a 1-4+ variable scope on it, but sold it too soon.
I think in its perfect form Cooper got the gun right, I just tinkered too much. I also wish the IER scopes kept up with the rifles. Even just a ballistic reticle and I would probably still own the gun.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:51:59 AM EDT
I'm thinking mini 14, mini 30 or iirc ruger is coming out with a 6.8 mini
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 9:26:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By FreedomUSCG:
Look at the Remington 700 series, in .308.
Get a used one, and save your money for the real important things.


Vague post is vague. Like what for instance? I'm always interested in hearing someone else' priorities.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 9:38:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigMat:
Thanks everybody- appreciate the feedback, gave me a lot to think about that I just axed out of hand-

I like the idea of the lever gun quite a bit and it just didn't really register to me as a viable option, for whatever dumb reason. I do seem to be screaming AK in my post, but never put that one together either. You know when yourself in a rut and just can't think your way past a couple of guns, that was me.


I appreciate the Garand idea too, any one familiar with the Shuffs Mini-G, and range reports?



As to the questions-
I didn't want to name manufactures as we never diagnosed the Kaboom as ammo/rifle, and it wasn't my rifle, I can say for certain that it happened, and the rifle was totaled, and he was shooting quality factory brass cased ammo out of a 20" factory built upper form a "top-tier" builder. It stretched the lower and upper recievers and blew the bolt to pieces. My friend never trusted the barrel for that matter again and just pulled off non-critical pieces.

As to why my wife isn't on board, outside of the Kaboom mentioned, I have/do own several ARs, over the years, and all of them have had some sort of serious malfunction while shooting, again, I haven't taken the time to diagnose why as my concern wasn't why, but that it did. My wife has been there for several malfunctions and is much less eager to stick to the platform considering we have owned many others that have worked, constantly. As to the ARs, I have owned one "cheap" AR, a Del-ton, worked perfectly for about 9 thousand rounds before I decided I need a gun from a "top-tier" builder. Well, I got them and haven't had one be 100% sense.


My wife wasn't LEO of .mil, just done quite a bit of shooting and she isn't emotionally vested in any rifle and trust is paramount to her for self-defense, momma bear and all that.


As to the Ruger GSR- I did own one, and ended up selling it (not sure if that was a good decision).
Things I liked-it was all sorts of handy, 10 rounds in a bolt gun were plenty for my needs (hopefully), I liked having iron sights (even though i didn't like the iron sights on the gun)
Why I sold it, I had a leupold 2.5 IER scope on it, but I felt it didn't do a 308 punching a 1-2 MOA group justice, figured I may as well have just run a 45-70 lever gun for the ranges I was shooting to, as the Leupold didn't allow for adjusting range well, as the it had hunting style turrets and they were capped and the reticle was just crosshairs. I could set it to 300 and get range, but then the whole benefit of the scout concept was off, or set it close, tear up two eye shooting, but hope I didn't need to throw any Hail Marys. So I threw a nice 2-7 scope on it traditionally, and relalized I had a 9 pound hunting rifle that could follow up with 5 rounds faster, which is cool, but not that cool. I tired an Aimpoint H-1 and it was fun, but then I really may as well have just had a 45-70. why put a 4 MOA dot on a 2 MOA rifle? I feel like I should have tried a 1-4+ variable scope on it, but sold it too soon.
I think in its perfect form Cooper got the gun right, I just tinkered too much. I also wish the IER scopes kept up with the rifles. Even just a ballistic reticle and I would probably still own the gun.


Never had/have a problem with my retro AR15's. Thousands of rounds shot.
A few FTF. I put my Big Boy Pants on and cleared the jam.
You first dismiss the AR platform then go on to say that you basically want damn near everything an AR has to offer
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 10:38:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hntrman:



Never had/have a problem with my retro AR15's. Thousands of rounds shot.
A few FTF. I put my Big Boy Pants on and cleared the jam.
You first dismiss the AR platform then go on to say that you basically want damn near everything an AR has to offer

The AR doesn't offer his wife's perception of reliability. That's the deal killer, I can see it from here. And if Momma ain't happy, ain't NObody happy!

Despite this being primarily an AR forum (at least according to the name) there are other rifles than the AR. Yes, you can get them all to FTF if you go at it right. But this isn't (it seems to me) an issue of reliability, it's an issue with comfort and confidence. And since the woman isn't a recruit that you can force to lug an AR, and this still being the U.S. of A (at least nominally), she should have the prerogative to opt for something else.

There have been several good (and several not so good) suggestions already not involving ARs. I'll admit that the Ruger Mini 30 in 6.8 sounds like one of the best, always assuming there aren't reliability or accuracy problems.

Still looks like an AK variant is his best bet, though.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 10:44:24 AM EDT
Armalite AR180, light weight, easy to operate, takes AR mags, same basic ergonomics.

Unless we're going for something a bit more potent that 5.56.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 10:51:56 AM EDT
My wife loves the AKM platform. Her preferd method of shooting is to lock in a 75 round drum or 40 round stick mag and hose down the target area. Ammo is still somewhat cheap as are mags. While not my personal choice that is what my wife went with.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 10:53:34 AM EDT
I'll also add that for a SHTF rifle you need to consider carrying the thing also. My wife loves an AR and she loves the Garand but If she had to carry one for much time I know which she would grow to hate.

For that matter it doesn't even have to be from a wifes perspective. I have been patroling for the last week looking for the predator that got three of my chickens. I am glad for the weight of the AR, and the rails that allow me to use an Aimpoint and mount a light and grip.

An AK seems like an ok second choice. I will also mention that I am pretty impresssed with what I am seeing and hearing about the VZ 58s. May be another good option.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 11:15:45 AM EDT
Since you mentioned weight....
ak with micro dot, tlr1 light ,ultimak rail , polymer hg & romy wire folder will weigh in at 8lb 2oz (no mag)
ak with just wood furniture 7lb 4.5 oz (no mag)
Ak with polymer furniture and sidefolder 7lb 1.5oz (no mag)
empty mag 11.5~12oz depending on variation
17.2oz per 30rnds of ammo
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 11:16:43 AM EDT
I vote for SKS.
I consider the SKS to be the BEST all 'round compromise centerfire, based on: price, capabilities, ammo availability/price, accuracy, power, weight, & reliability.

semi-auto
30-30 ballistics
cheap to buy (relatively that is) REALLY cheap to shoot (with com-bloc ammo found at most gun shops)
ammo can be found at higherish prices at Wally World
lightweight
cabable of easily taking deer sized game out to 100 yards (further if you're good)
10 round fixed mag, quickly reloadable with stripper clips
generally considered more accurate and harder hitting (the latter, due to the 20" barrel found on most SKSs) than a generic AK
VERY reliable
built like a tank
simple straightfoward construction
no small parts to get launched into oblivion
combat proven


Unfortunately there is just absolutely NOTHING sexy about an SKS!
It's pretty much always been considered a "peasant's rifle".....
I own more than a couple and none have ever let me down!!!
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:05:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Emu:

Unfortunately there is just absolutely NOTHING sexy about an SKS!


Ain't that the truth, the rifle is hard to argue with functionally, but it may be the ugliest rifle to ever exist. That being said, a solid contender, eye of the beholder and all that. I owned a yugo in my early days, and I have to say, it was a great rifle. Nice to see their prices coming down a little bit again too. Seemed like they were getting close to $500 for a while their.


As to the AR part, I am not saying its a bad rifle at all, its an issue of trust, and I want my wife to like to shoot this rifle, she is finally on board with my preps, and I want to keep her happy, and more importantly involved. Every time I pull an AR out of a range bag she gives me a sideways look.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:24:50 PM EDT
I think, given the specs you quoted, that an AK would best fit the bill. It need to be high quality, yet inexpensive. Mak90 or a Saiga. Preferably converted, but it wouldn't have to be.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:30:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By acman145acp:
Your post screams AK.

It's the only "budget" minded semi auto rifle that fits your criteria is affordable to shoot has decent ammo available for hunting now etc.


100% correct if not then a Mosin Nagant and you will have money left to fix her shoulder
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:34:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigMat:

Originally Posted By Emu:

Unfortunately there is just absolutely NOTHING sexy about an SKS!


Ain't that the truth, the rifle is hard to argue with functionally, but it may be the ugliest rifle to ever exist. That being said, a solid contender, eye of the beholder and all that. I owned a yugo in my early days, and I have to say, it was a great rifle. Nice to see their prices coming down a little bit again too. Seemed like they were getting close to $500 for a while their.


As to the AR part, I am not saying its a bad rifle at all, its an issue of trust, and I want my wife to like to shoot this rifle, she is finally on board with my preps, and I want to keep her happy, and more importantly involved. Every time I pull an AR out of a range bag she gives me a sideways look.

Why not take her to a gun show and let her handle a few different things. I'm guessing if she picks it herself, she'll be happier than if we pick it for her...



Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2011 12:45:40 PM EDT by Currahee]
used Remington 870 or Mossberg 590

The most versatile gun.

Dirt cheap

If people are coming into your house the last thing you want is a bolt gun

It can hunt small animals and large

They still sell ammo at hardware stores for it

maybe get a long barrel, mag extension, side saddle etc and your set for under $300

it's still part of your arsenal when you add more guns later,

My second choice would be the lever gun, but ONLY if this is your only gun ever.



Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:49:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HomeSlice:

Originally Posted By BigMat:

Originally Posted By Emu:

Unfortunately there is just absolutely NOTHING sexy about an SKS!


Ain't that the truth, the rifle is hard to argue with functionally, but it may be the ugliest rifle to ever exist. That being said, a solid contender, eye of the beholder and all that. I owned a yugo in my early days, and I have to say, it was a great rifle. Nice to see their prices coming down a little bit again too. Seemed like they were getting close to $500 for a while their.


As to the AR part, I am not saying its a bad rifle at all, its an issue of trust, and I want my wife to like to shoot this rifle, she is finally on board with my preps, and I want to keep her happy, and more importantly involved. Every time I pull an AR out of a range bag she gives me a sideways look.

Why not take her to a gun show and let her handle a few different things. I'm guessing if she picks it herself, she'll be happier than if we pick it for her...





+1
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 12:53:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreedomUSCG:
Look at the Remington 700 series, in .308.


+1
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:48:10 PM EDT
You guys are making me remember the regret I feel every time I remember how I swapped my last SKS straight across for a 10-22. At the time, I thought it was a good deal. At the time, I was buying Norinco SKSs for $89.

Oh, if I only had the money my experiences have cost me
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