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Posted: 10/5/2007 4:34:14 AM EST
first of all, I love SF, and love you guys!!! Here's a friendly rant - 99.99% of the threads here are focused on enough bullets, hardening your house against assault, while very few threads (usually feral, frozenny) are devoted to food! The likelihood of starving is greater than some sort of mass assault. at some point, once security is at the "70% solution" you need to shift focus to "the ball" and keep your eye on it.

I know gun threads are cool, but don't you worry about food? Not just food storage, but food production!
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:02:57 AM EST
Amen!!

Food ,water and money are the most important imo.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:05:51 AM EST
well, this IS a gun related board. However, I do agree with you greatly. I grew up raising my own food with my family, and now that I am older, and am building a family of my own, we are slowly getting back to living off the land.

Many many discussions are over the fun toy aspects of prepping, or theyre fun toys are now all ready to go, and you also have 500 lbs of beans, rice, and wheat stored away. But what happens when you run out of your storage food? Not many people have been able to get that far ahead in their preps, and IMHO, this should be the first place that everyone starts.

There is a LOT of hard work involved in raising your own food. You have to grow not only all of your vegetables, but also enough extra vegetables that go to seed for next year. There are also some species of vegetables that only produce seed every other year, so that compunds it that much more. You also have to grow enough food to feed your protein sources, whatever they are that your producing, as well as enough seed for next year as well.

Food preservasion is another HUGE area that is commonly given a second thought at best. Here's an example for some thought: it takes approximately 500 quart canning jars to preserve a years worth of food for a family of 4. That's not counting all the other people that will be involved in your groups, should you wish to have enough manpower for labor, security, and rest time. The amount of time it takes to can a years worth of food is absolutely staggering.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:12:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:17:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
with enough bullets i can shoot looters and use them for food.


MMMMMMMMM bbq soylent green
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:33:45 AM EST
Not one of the fun, "how to take on the world after shtf" threads gets more than two posts before someone asks how much food they have stored up.

This is a gun board so guns will frequently be the topic, but nobody has fogotten that they will live or die by their food and water preps. We may never fire a shot in defense and most of us know that. We just like to shoot!
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:34:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:40:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
with enough bullets i can shoot looters and use them for food.


MMMMMMMMM bbq soylent green



Hey hey... if soccer players in the alps can do it... ARFCOM members can do it in thier homes...

But yeah luckily for me there is a vast peice of State land (which wont matter that it belongs to the state but just saying that the land will be there for a long time) ACRES AND ACRES... take you almost an hour to drive from one end to the other by jeep...and then it's about just as wide.... full of all kinds of edible plant life and deer and boar and all kinds of goodies... my friends property up there also has chicken hutches and other things that are a good food output/work involved ratio... so Maybe not full everyday but We wouldn't starve to death...

and there is always soylent green
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:41:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
You may want to hit that little button that says "Outdoors".

There's a whole Survival Forum on food.


That's the first thing that came to my head when I read the post .
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:49:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:52:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 5:56:31 AM EST by azsavage]
Shooting guns and dreaming about zombies is more fun than storing beans.

Just felt the need to point that out
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:12:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 6:13:24 AM EST by BigRedDog]
Food is stored to be used as Zombie bait. newbs......
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:15:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:18:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 6:19:09 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:21:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 6:23:01 AM EST by MrCornbread]
If you make a fort out of food, You need to plan carefully

web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Info/condiments.html
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:31:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is Friday Mad Max v. Old McDonald day?

What if I make a fort out of food? Where do I post about that?

edit You would not laugh if you had ever had one of my pancakes....


But will your pancakes stop a handgun round? 5.56? 7.62x39? Box O' Truth time!

<<paging old painless>>
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:33:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By azsavage:
Shooting guns and dreaming about zombies is more fun than storing beans.

Just felt the need to point that out




Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:42:38 AM EST
FWIW, there is not a lot involved in buying and storing canned goods (except for, say, great deals -- and how many pages did that Target Tuna thread run???).

However, there are lots of things that a new house owner may need help on -- and as much as I knew about reinforcing door jambs and locksets, I learned a lot more from the answers WiseguyThreeOne's questions.

As others have pointed out there are a lot more survival forums on this board now. I frequent the "Gear" forum, but have to put the other ones on my reading list, too.

-WhyTanFox

P.S. Hey, it might not be a bad idea to have a tacked thread pointing out the other forums in the Survival group.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:51:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:58:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
FWIW, there is not a lot involved in buying and storing canned goods (except for, say, great deals -- and how many pages did that Target Tuna thread run???).

However, there are lots of things that a new house owner may need help on -- and as much as I knew about reinforcing door jambs and locksets, I learned a lot more from the answers WiseguyThreeOne's questions.

As others have pointed out there are a lot more survival forums on this board now. I frequent the "Gear" forum, but have to put the other ones on my reading list, too.

-WhyTanFox

P.S. Hey, it might not be a bad idea to have a tacked thread pointing out the other forums in the Survival group.



Link?
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 7:10:54 AM EST
Long term, I'm gonna grind grain and bake. Easy decision for me, wheat is available within 5 minute walking distance, and until lately VERY cheap. I got enough stored for circa 4400 loaves, medium pizzas or dozen of muffin.( 2 loaves a week for 42 years; loave a day for 12 yrs.) I got all the gear and other ingredients to about cover the output, plus 100 lbs.each of molasses and honey. I have a scruffy little garden, dozens of blackened jump and body traps, plus acres of wild greens, which i hold a little knowledge about, and several large bottles of vitamin pills. Most importantly, i have unlimited water and fuel, good relations w/ neighbors and dozens of kin some w/ better resources than me; My oldest daughter (example) has 800 acres & 43,000 turkeys; So maybe, I'll not need my 71 AR mags, NV or closet full of Israeli M193.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 8:34:17 AM EST
ME. I'm right where I want to be. Smack dab in the middle of a desert.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 9:32:03 AM EST
Personaly, I'd like to see more threads on water treatment. This has always been an area of interest for me.

I believe I could treat waste water with feces from the toilet to drinkable water with primitive supplies.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 11:11:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 11:12:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 11:20:00 AM EST
LOLher
Obviously I'd go to a stream then a stagnant pond before the last resort.

With a septic system, particle filtration then distilation (is that a word?) you end up with 100% pure water.

No worries!
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 11:30:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
You may want to hit that little button that says "Outdoors".

There's a whole Survival Forum on food.



heh..I jus went and looked. first time I noticed it. LOL.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 2:33:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
first of all, I love SF, and love you guys!!! Here's a friendly rant - 99.99% of the threads here are focused on enough bullets, hardening your house against assault, while very few threads (usually feral, frozenny) are devoted to food! The likelihood of starving is greater than some sort of mass assault. at some point, once security is at the "70% solution" you need to shift focus to "the ball" and keep your eye on it.

I know gun threads are cool, but don't you worry about food? Not just food storage, but food production!



Everyday my friend, everyday.........
KDX
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 2:43:01 PM EST
With guns I can get any food I want. I have a well too so water is easy to get. I need more ammo. LOL
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:07:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:21:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 3:29:51 PM EST by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
You may want to hit that little button that says "Outdoors".

There's a whole Survival Forum on food.


OK TJ (with your smart alecky little crooked smilie) I'll check it out now.

before I go, comments:
I think the forum you talk about is very new:
I'm willing to bet a lot of folks didn't know about it:
Ive developed a survival forum habit over a period of years, so coming here for everything is hard to break:
FINALLY: this just shows how for some people having the forums broken up into a zillion little pieces just doesn't make sense:
no need for the smiliey of disgust
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:27:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 3:30:51 PM EST by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
With guns I can get any food I want. I have a well too so water is easy to get. I need more ammo. LOL


Wow, that's original. Don't forget the Heineken!
Well he asked. U are right it is ORIGINAL. LOL. Human have been duing it from day one. I know how to hunt and fish.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:34:40 PM EST
OK TJ, just went there. It's full of freakin recipes. So you give me the smilie of condesecendence like I'm a complete moron - over the recipe thread? Maybe we need a food production forum. not a "recipe" forum.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:51:49 PM EST
I'm down for bbq'ed looter.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:00:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:28:08 PM EST
This forum has a lot of members with technical experience who are very qualified to comment on most of the survival gear that is out there.

Problem is that I don't buy gear unless I have a clear and present justification to buy gear. That isn't to say I don't prepare, rather, I am just not a gadget guy. I also don't have Red Dawn Syndrome. I do want to make sure I can feed myself, take care of my family, and keep the posessions and lifestyle I value. I live in the country and enjoy having chickens, a garden, hunting deer on my property, etc.

Because I focus on a homesteading type lifestyle and not so much on preparing for the day of the dead there are other discussion boards I frequent as well.

This forum happens to have many thoughtful contributors whose posts are neither wrapped in tinfoil, nor reek of hippie, as seems to be common on some of the other sites. Additionally, there are a number of other forums on this site that keep me coming back.

The three topics that capture my interest have to do with the following:
Power Generation
Food Production (chickens, honey, gardening)
Financial Preparedness / Awareness *

* I've got a thread to start on this one.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:30:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:31:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 5:37:14 PM EST by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
OK TJ, just went there. It's full of freakin recipes. So you give me the smilie of condesecendence like I'm a complete moron - over the recipe thread? Maybe we need a food production forum. not a "recipe" forum.


Relax bud. That's not a disgust smilie but one of no emotions. Just plugging the new forum where I can. Disgust would have been a frown.

I did that post cause it is new and your thread a good way to remind folks.

The forum is labeled Food. Feel free to post any food related topic you care to contribute.

You can unwad you panties now.
Tj




Can I suggest a name change for that forum? I think it has a lot of potential over and above the activity it gets right now. I'd remove the word "recipes" from the title (if I recall the title correctly) I'd include something about food storage and production/farming. TJ, can you please pass this on? thanks.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:35:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 5:36:26 PM EST by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
OK TJ, just went there. It's full of freakin recipes. So you give me the smilie of condesecendence like I'm a complete moron - over the recipe thread? Maybe we need a food production forum. not a "recipe" forum.


Relax bud. That's not a disgust smilie but one of no emotions. Just plugging the new forum where I can. Disgust would have been a frown.

I did that post cause it is new and your thread a good way to remind folks.

The forum is labeled Food. Feel free to post any food related topic you care to contribute.

You can unwad you panties now.

Tj



= no emotion
= half smirk of disgust
= I miss my old fashioned survival forum!

was all this just to get rid of the hams? do not answer that question, and I ask that it be stricken from the record, and the jury be advised to disregard it in their deliberations!

seriously, a food production/farming thread would take off like a ham operator in a hurricane.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:01:06 PM EST
FordGuy, you forgot the eyes rolling smiley. I love that one!
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:05:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Watermaker:
FordGuy, you forgot the eyes rolling smiley. I love that one!


Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:11:55 PM EST
FordGuy, I gotta disagree with your premise, well mostly. I think that three years ago the "guns and bullets" threads were relatively more common than the food threads than they are now. Maybe more importantly, many of the guns and bullets threads these days include a bunch of responses that point out the importance of having food as well as firearms, and that wasn't so true a couple years ago.

Having said that, I agree that a thread entitled "Best .45 for terrorist zombies" will get about five or ten times the hits of a thread entitled "Best grain for long-term storage," but I do think the forum is moving in the right direction. Whatever that means.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:14:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:15:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 6:19:22 PM EST by frozenny]
Fordguy:

Count me in...

You don't prepare for a one-in-every-twenty-million years comet strike while Hurrican Katrina is flooding the house. Likewise it is simply prudent to prepare for the most likely incident first.

The likelihood of needing more than 100 rounds of ammo is relatively low. It is possible you need might need more, and its also possible you could be struck by lightning. On the other hand having to make it through a hurricane, blizzard, power outage, job loss, financial crisis, earthquake or major illness are SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

98% of posts here do seem to focus on bullets, guns, and the like. We don't seem to have many realistic threads on real hardcore survival. What is real hardcore survival? Its not Mack Bolan or Mad Max. 99.8% of the time its something a lot more practical and infinitely more boring. Something more like what Grandpa did in 1931: Stretched a dollar, grew and canned something edible. Sometimes its also how to survive two nights lost in the Adirondack Mountains in November, or how to live through a catastrophic ATV or snowmobile breakdown 37 miles in the woods in mid February on a -10 degree day with teh sun setting fast (Been there, done that one).

Hardening the house and repelling hordes of crazed looters might have a role to play in survival preparedness. It is worth some consideration. However, there are DOZENS of far more likely shtf events, all of which should be prepared for and addressed before building bunkers.......

I've been checking threads a couple times a day for nearly a year now, and barely post (compared to over a year ago). There seems to be little worth replying too. The replies seem to end up a little more like the GD forum now too..... More frequent immature behavior from a few...

Froze

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:36:17 PM EST
i think i have enough neighbors to feed myself for a few months...
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 2:12:03 AM EST
The difficulty with storing enough food beyond preservation and sanitation concerns will be the consumption of the stored food.

Since most people only store enough food to last them until next week’s trip to the grocery store, in an emergency, those people will soon be looking, and looting, for more food. The smell of you barbequing some hamburgers in your backyard will be attracting some uninvited and nefarious guests.

After a while, even if you can camouflage your consumption of your reserves, the neighbors will begin to notice that you are not in the same desperate state that they are in. This will also raise curiosity.

Most of us do not reside in rural areas, where the consumption and production of food can go unnoticed for long. The people, who do reside in rural areas, will be subject to lawful or unlawful confiscation of their supplies if the food supply of the general population continues for more than a week or so.

This is why we like to talk more about guns and other survival strategies. Not only are these discussions more interesting but sooner or later will resort to defensive measures just to keep our preparations.

Remember the lessons from Katrina: the thin veil of civilization is only three meals deep.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 4:05:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
You may want to hit that little button that says "Outdoors".

There's a whole Survival Forum on food.


Ssshhhh. You'll spoil someones fun.


what fun? the fact that his rant is one thats been said 100 times over in the years ive been here.

I kinda find it all ironic, That 95% of those that post here(the internet). and some even in this thread, do not have enough supplies to feed their families past 3 days. BUT have enough gadgets,gear and ammo to outfit a small 3rd world army!! Then post here all " im prepared.....look at me,,, look at my XXXX "

YMMV


you all can chose to prep ,plan etc....but some of you folks really do need to wake up from some of the dreams,,,,,,, hope i add'd teh right smiley!


oh ford guy,.,,, you aint gotta feed them,save them,shelter them,, so why worry its their ass and family on the line not yours.... thats why you stock ammo

Link Posted: 10/6/2007 4:10:50 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Freedom528:
The difficulty with storing enough food beyond preservation and sanitation concerns will be the consumption of the stored food.

Since most people only store enough food to last them until next week’s trip to the grocery store, in an emergency, those people will soon be looking, and looting, for more food. The smell of you barbequing some hamburgers in your backyard will be attracting some uninvited and nefarious guests.

After a while, even if you can camouflage your consumption of your reserves, the neighbors will begin to notice that you are not in the same desperate state that they are in. This will also raise curiosity.

Most of us do not reside in rural areas, where the consumption and production of food can go unnoticed for long. The people, who do reside in rural areas, will be subject to lawful or unlawful confiscation of their supplies if the food supply of the general population continues for more than a week or so.

This is why we like to talk more about guns and other survival strategies. Not only are these discussions more interesting but sooner or later will resort to defensive measures just to keep our preparations.

Remember the lessons from Katrina: the thin veil of civilization is only three meals deep.


Yeah, I can see me standing at the grill. The world is spinning to a halt, civilization is in shreds, roving bands of hungry leftist pointy-heads roaming the streets demanding food (it's a joke son, just a joke - F. Leghorn) My AR slung across my back. Some kid walks up and asks for food, I'll feed him. He says his mommy is at home hungry, I'll send him with a doggy bag. It would just seem kind of wrong to shoot the little feller. I'm really bad about that kind of thing. My wife and I just seem to take in strays.

I'll be the one trying to form a community, dare I say the word "collective", garden and maybe a herd of goats. It'll probably get me shot by some greedy needy, but I'll go down fighting for a good cause.

So let's talk about seed storage, gardening, canning, butchering, and all those little details of life that has been lost in the last generation or so. I can can. hoe.
J.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 4:47:49 AM EST
Ford- take heart bro, your just on a higher level than most of the other folks are. That's not to give you an "attaboy" nor is it to give them shame, it's just the simple truth.

Folks can see what "stage" of prepping there are at here-

http://vikingpreparedness.blogspot.com/5 stages of Survivalism


Most people never make it past Stage 2 or 3. Why? Cause buying stuff is easy and sometimes fun. But re-directing your entire life, habits, work, social status, etc. is TOUGH. And of course, there's a whole lot of "men of the other gender" i.e, those that lack gonads, that won't make any serious survival moves because "she won't ALLOW it." Shame on you. Hopefully she will "allow" you to survive later on. Time is now, get control back of your family.

The guns and gear are fun, shoveling chicken poop and having the dust fly around you isn't fun. But standing in the mirror with your Kifaru pack on and holding your sixth AR seeing how cool you look probably IS fun eh?

I've said this for over a decade now, guns are fun, I like guns. However if you plan REMOTELY well, the chances are slim you'll be shooting every day after TSHTF. But guess what you WILL have to do everyday- EAT.

Plan accordingly.

Lowdown3

Link Posted: 10/6/2007 5:11:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Ford- take heart bro, your just on a higher level than most of the other folks are. That's not to give you an "attaboy" nor is it to give them shame, it's just the simple truth.

Folks can see what "stage" of prepping there are at here-

http://vikingpreparedness.blogspot.com/5 stages of Survivalism


Most people never make it past Stage 2 or 3. Why? Cause buying stuff is easy and sometimes fun. But re-directing your entire life, habits, work, social status, etc. is TOUGH. And of course, there's a whole lot of "men of the other gender" i.e, those that lack gonads, that won't make any serious survival moves because "she won't ALLOW it." Shame on you. Hopefully she will "allow" you to survive later on. Time is now, get control back of your family.

The guns and gear are fun, shoveling chicken poop and having the dust fly around you isn't fun. But standing in the mirror with your Kifaru pack on and holding your sixth AR seeing how cool you look probably IS fun eh?

I've said this for over a decade now, guns are fun, I like guns. However if you plan REMOTELY well, the chances are slim you'll be shooting every day after TSHTF. But guess what you WILL have to do everyday- EAT.

Plan accordingly.

Lowdown3



I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't appreciate a guy who can make bread from scratch, knows how to can, or who generally knows how to put together a meal. They may view it through a different color lens, but they appreciate the skill set. I dare say some find it a turn on.

They won't complain about hoarding canning jars, about the stove you put in the basement, or the monster stove in the kitchen, about the freezer, any of that stuff, as long as they get to sample the goods and can show you off to their friends. Some will complain if you butcher a hog or something in the garage. They won't gripe about the garden, the tomatoes, real beans, grapes, herbs, fresh flowers; none of that as long as it doesn't turn into an obsession.

I knew a Judge one time who used to vacation in Lyon, France every year. His wife was ecstatic about it. She got to live the life of a minor aristocrat and he got to go hang out with the guys down at the bakery all night. They drank beer, swore a lot, and he learned to make some of the best breads you could imagine. A good time was had by all.

It's all about how you package the deal, my friend.

J.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 6:27:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
first of all, I love SF, and love you guys!!! Here's a friendly rant - 99.99% of the threads here are focused on enough bullets, hardening your house against assault, while very few threads (usually feral, frozenny) are devoted to food! The likelihood of starving is greater than some sort of mass assault. at some point, once security is at the "70% solution" you need to shift focus to "the ball" and keep your eye on it.

I know gun threads are cool, but don't you worry about food? Not just food storage, but food production!


I subscribe to the KISS principle. Food, water, and shelter has been KISSed. My guns all are KISSed. The last time I purchased a gun was back in '98. Slowly but surely stock piling food and water.
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