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Posted: 10/6/2013 1:23:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2013 1:26:38 PM EST by Ronnoc]
I want to attract more deer and a bigger buck but keep seeing the same does and one buck, a smallish 8 point. I have a salt lick and feedblock along a game trail. I have hunted the same area for years. I almost always get three a year, usually does. There is a lot of traffic in the early to mid-morning times as they go back and forth. There are times I could easily take 5 or 6 at once as they walk along the trails in groups. There have been times I could work the bolt fast enough that I have taken three in a minute. But, they are always does.

I would like to get a bigger buck to the area. To me the 8 point in the picture needs to grow more. The camera is along a game trail and I have a flavored salt like and a Bioblock and put something else too. I was thinking of putting doe in estrus urine out some to try. I have a huge oak in my back and gobs of acorns, so I shoveled some up and dumped a large mound out there too in front of the camera. Any thoughts?

Pics of the buck, I keep seeing.



Link Posted: 10/6/2013 1:29:53 PM EST
That buck this is his core area, so after the bachelor groups of bucks split up thats his home. Now once the rut starts kicking in you should see more bucks sniffing around for those does.

There is really nthing you can do to bring different deer in, look around for another spot.
Link Posted: 10/6/2013 1:38:19 PM EST
May have to just deal with it then. I mostly hunt for meat and it is a great transit area for lots of deer and easy to get them out. Just wanted to grab a decent buck. I shot a decent size 8 point there at about the same spot a couple of years before.



Link Posted: 10/6/2013 7:59:44 PM EST
I don't know how much land you're on, or what your neighbors are like, but if you keep shooting a few does per year, and let all the young bucks walk. in 3 years or so you'll have a better ratio, more mature deer and a better fawn crop. This translates into more, bigger and healthier bucks.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/6/2013 11:35:56 PM EST
if the does stay, other bucks will come in.

when that happens, rattling might work.


but as said above, you are in the core area of that buck you keep seeing. and obviosly in a good spot for the area.
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 2:50:01 AM EST
They are likely already there, you just are not seeing them. Especially with the salt lick. Keep the pressure low and come rut you ought to have the big boys showing up in the day lite hours.
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 2:36:30 PM EST
Your area just may not support multiple bucks that are decent.

My area is heavily hunted, tons of hunting camps on little acreage with a ton of guys hitting the state land bordering them.
Almost every buck killed in my county was 1 1/2 years of age. Sure now and again someone got a decent one, and on rare
occasions even a real good one. Basically they are mountain deer scratching out a living, the herd had been shot out years ago and
never got a chance to recover, very low doe population.

So I got together with several neighbors and we made a deal not to shoot does, and nothing less than a 4 point, then we made it 5 points the next year
and for the last few years it has to have 6points. A few of us put in small plots and the trail cam pics have shown us more and much better bucks and the deer hunting itself for the hard core hunters has dramatically improved.
The more does that live the more fawns they drop. The more does coming into estrus increases the odds of more and potentially better bucks hanging in the area or coming into the area. Some say we need to kill some does but the theory of a 1 to 1 ration or 2 to 1 maybe great in some farmland area but it holds no water when the herd numbers are so low.

Perhaps you might stop killing the does. Pass on the little ones and see what happens. Yes, you have no control over the others who may kill that buck or doe you just passed on, but if everyone thinks the same it may never improve your chances.


Link Posted: 10/7/2013 4:28:26 PM EST
I am fortunate enough to hunt on private land with no public land nearby and very few hunters in the area. I am not deep into the woods which may be part of the problem. I might try some doe urine out and also moving the camera around.
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 4:44:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2013 4:46:34 PM EST by Justin3]
Are you hunting over the blocks/licks?

Eta:

and have you set any cams up in other nearby areas?

Have you seen any bigger bucks nearby?
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 5:49:12 PM EST
I've been killing big bucks for 25 years, you don't hunt for the big bucks. you hunt where the does are and let them bring them in.
Does = Live Bait
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 6:25:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justin3:
Are you hunting over the blocks/licks?

Eta:

and have you set any cams up in other nearby areas?

Have you seen any bigger bucks nearby?
View Quote


I just set them out about two weeks ago. I have not hunted them and will not be until mid-November rifle season. I have see bigger ones, just not that often, and no good shots. I was mainly just looking for ways of attracting more. Might just need to be more patient.
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 6:25:18 PM EST
Doe piss right now isn't going to bring in the big bucks. Not quite time yet. Maybe in two or three weeks.

If you're after the really big bucks, it's all about location and playing the wind. Luck helps too.
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 7:50:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
Your area just may not support multiple bucks that are decent.

My area is heavily hunted, tons of hunting camps on little acreage with a ton of guys hitting the state land bordering them.
Almost every buck killed in my county was 1 1/2 years of age. Sure now and again someone got a decent one, and on rare
occasions even a real good one. Basically they are mountain deer scratching out a living, the herd had been shot out years ago and
never got a chance to recover, very low doe population.

So I got together with several neighbors and we made a deal not to shoot does, and nothing less than a 4 point, then we made it 5 points the next year
and for the last few years it has to have 6points. A few of us put in small plots and the trail cam pics have shown us more and much better bucks and the deer hunting itself for the hard core hunters has dramatically improved.
The more does that live the more fawns they drop. The more does coming into estrus increases the odds of more and potentially better bucks hanging in the area or coming into the area. Some say we need to kill some does but the theory of a 1 to 1 ration or 2 to 1 maybe great in some farmland area but it holds no water when the herd numbers are so low.

Perhaps you might stop killing the does. Pass on the little ones and see what happens. Yes, you have no control over the others who may kill that buck or doe you just passed on, but if everyone thinks the same it may never improve your chances.


View Quote


No offense, but leaving does and shooting bucks based on points is a horrible management practice and has been proven unequivocally not to work.
Link Posted: 10/8/2013 3:05:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2013 3:05:52 AM EST by dbd870]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:


No offense, but leaving does and shooting bucks based on points is a horrible management practice and has been proven unequivocally not to work.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
Originally Posted By CTM1:
Your area just may not support multiple bucks that are decent.

My area is heavily hunted, tons of hunting camps on little acreage with a ton of guys hitting the state land bordering them.
Almost every buck killed in my county was 1 1/2 years of age. Sure now and again someone got a decent one, and on rare
occasions even a real good one. Basically they are mountain deer scratching out a living, the herd had been shot out years ago and
never got a chance to recover, very low doe population.

So I got together with several neighbors and we made a deal not to shoot does, and nothing less than a 4 point, then we made it 5 points the next year
and for the last few years it has to have 6points. A few of us put in small plots and the trail cam pics have shown us more and much better bucks and the deer hunting itself for the hard core hunters has dramatically improved.
The more does that live the more fawns they drop. The more does coming into estrus increases the odds of more and potentially better bucks hanging in the area or coming into the area. Some say we need to kill some does but the theory of a 1 to 1 ration or 2 to 1 maybe great in some farmland area but it holds no water when the herd numbers are so low.

Perhaps you might stop killing the does. Pass on the little ones and see what happens. Yes, you have no control over the others who may kill that buck or doe you just passed on, but if everyone thinks the same it may never improve your chances.




No offense, but leaving does and shooting bucks based on points is a horrible management practice and has been proven unequivocally not to work.


Beat me to it; you need to take some does as well.
Link Posted: 10/8/2013 9:50:47 AM EST
Around here you would mock up a scrape line , refreshing it through the season. Rattling and grunting. If your area is not holding the big boy then you will need to pull him in, they travel but you want him to see your area as an oasis. Feed the does and keep them there, challenge the bucks, simple recipe really.
Link Posted: 10/8/2013 10:21:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2013 10:21:58 AM EST by konger]
I'm having the same problem as OP in one of my hunting areas. I'm seeing very few bucks and only a couple of does. I have dense woods plots of 40-50 acres with several narrow hay fields breaking it up. A 2 acre pond sits in one of the dense wood plots near the edge of one field. The land totals close to 300 acres. All of this has several tobacco fields surrounding it. I'm thinking this area is about as good as it gets for this area of NC, just not enough deer. I think poaching is a problem in this county, but that still doesn't explain why they aren't hanging out here.

I wonder if a corn feeder (like from Walmart) would keep or attract does and bucks in my area? I'm going to try peanut butter first and then move up to a feeder.


Konger
Link Posted: 10/8/2013 11:02:02 AM EST
Wait till the rut kicks in , as posted above. The outside bucks will be coming by for some "strange". Happens every year. Where I used to live the deer were so familiar that each had a name. Come the rut and all kinds of new bucks showed up. Be patient.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 6:39:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2013 7:33:23 AM EST by CTM1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dbd870:


Beat me to it; you need to take some does as well.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dbd870:
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
Originally Posted By CTM1:
Your area just may not support multiple bucks that are decent.

My area is heavily hunted, tons of hunting camps on little acreage with a ton of guys hitting the state land bordering them.
Almost every buck killed in my county was 1 1/2 years of age. Sure now and again someone got a decent one, and on rare
occasions even a real good one. Basically they are mountain deer scratching out a living, the herd had been shot out years ago and
never got a chance to recover, very low doe population.

So I got together with several neighbors and we made a deal not to shoot does, and nothing less than a 4 point, then we made it 5 points the next year
and for the last few years it has to have 6points. A few of us put in small plots and the trail cam pics have shown us more and much better bucks and the deer hunting itself for the hard core hunters has dramatically improved.
The more does that live the more fawns they drop. The more does coming into estrus increases the odds of more and potentially better bucks hanging in the area or coming into the area. Some say we need to kill some does but the theory of a 1 to 1 ration or 2 to 1 maybe great in some farmland area but it holds no water when the herd numbers are so low.

Perhaps you might stop killing the does. Pass on the little ones and see what happens. Yes, you have no control over the others who may kill that buck or doe you just passed on, but if everyone thinks the same it may never improve your chances.




No offense, but leaving does and shooting bucks based on points is a horrible management practice and has been proven unequivocally not to work.


Beat me to it; you need to take some does as well.



I have to disagree with you guys based on our situation. The traditional view of holding out for age just would not work in our area, to much pressure. What works for one area does not always work in another. First we are not talking about control over a vast area, so we are not in a position to "grow" big bucks. By passing on the smaller racked bucks we are hoping that they make it through the sea of orange and get to put on a little more age and thus antler size, but to ever think we could see a 5 1/2 year old buck or even more than one 4 1/2 is just not realistic. My group only controls about 180 acres, but just outside of that as mentioned is a ton of hunters who have always shot what they see. So it is only our small group that is not shooting does but does are being shot, just not by us. We offer the does a place to hide out and that brings in the bucks. Many of the guys in our little cooperative are not so into management that we could implement an minimum age on bucks before they are shot, #1 most of the guys would not be able to judge age and #2 we just do not have the numbers of bucks to do that. So we go by points and the state implemented a 3 point rule on one side last year. This no doubt this will lead to better sightings and opportunities for all in time just like in PA.

So for our group in our small area what we have done has been giving us better sightings and some of us have been lucky, including me.

Edit to add again when our average age of buck being killed has been 1 1/2 you do not have a lot to work with. A 90 or 100 inch deer in our area is few and far between. To my knowledge I have taken one of the best bucks in my area in the last several years, my 2009 buck scored 134".
Trail cam pic in Oct under neighbors apple tree, but I did not get him until Dec. He lost a ton of weight over that 5 weeks, rutting hard.


My funky 2011 9pt non-typical, to my knowledge the only non-typical ever killed in my area since I have been there.

My 2012 buck

My 2010 9pt with the bow

Neighbors "guest" got this one last year
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 7:26:00 AM EST
A few other tail cam pics over the years


This one had two eyes one night and one the next. I guess he got poked during a fight as his rack was busted.

I passed on this 10 point 3 times holding out for the big 134" 8 in the post above

Link Posted: 10/9/2013 11:31:34 AM EST
Be careful. I think your moving the acorns would run afoul of baiting laws in Missouri. Apparently the mineral blocks are ok as long as they don't have grain in them.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ronnoc:


I just set them out about two weeks ago. I have not hunted them and will not be until mid-November rifle season. I have see bigger ones, just not that often, and no good shots. I was mainly just looking for ways of attracting more. Might just need to be more patient.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
Originally Posted By Justin3:
Are you hunting over the blocks/licks?

Eta:

and have you set any cams up in other nearby areas?

Have you seen any bigger bucks nearby?


I just set them out about two weeks ago. I have not hunted them and will not be until mid-November rifle season. I have see bigger ones, just not that often, and no good shots. I was mainly just looking for ways of attracting more. Might just need to be more patient.

Link Posted: 10/9/2013 11:41:01 AM EST
Try a doe bleat.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 12:47:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2013 1:46:21 PM EST by the_ak_kid]
Every parcel of land can sustain X amount of deer per acre. If you take a piece of land that can sustain 20 deer and your ratio of buck vs doe is roughly 1:4 (which is about average on normal properties) that gives you 5 bucks. If you break that number down by age structure it gives you roughly one mature buck. (Given, this scenario does not account for incoming fawn crop).

Now, take that number of does, 15 in this case and cut it in half. Shoot 7 does. That gives you more room and browse to sustain more deer. So now your ratio is roughly 1:1.5 buck to doe. Next year you will have less fawns, but also a higher survivability rate, a higher weaning weight and after fawn mortality is figured in, roughly the same amount of deer as you started with.

So you shoot more does. The following year you will have roughly 10 bucks and 10 does. Now that your ratio is better, you have more bucks and healthier deer in general.

Yes, your neighbors will shoot some, but I guarantee that you will also reap the benefits.

But hey, what do I know? I'm only growing little guys like this on 500 acres...





What I'm getting at here is it takes more than "drawing in big bucks". To do that effectively you have to have them first and the easiest way to do that is to grow them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 3:03:04 PM EST
Having control of 500 acres obviously allows your management efforts to have a direct impact on the deer.

Don Kisky had a farm that he was able to grow giants on it. Why? He has huge food sources, good soil, the better genetics does not hurt but it was on 450 acres which allowed him to hold deer to give them age. You get to do this when you have control of large tracts. Not happening in my scenario and it is a proven fact that bucks will disperse from there birth area from 6 months to 1 1/2 years of age. So if half the fawns dropped are bucks and they disperse nothing guarantees you can attract an equal number of bucks to your area unless you have something to hold them. Again food, cover and does. We can only work with what we have.
















Link Posted: 10/9/2013 3:20:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
May have to just deal with it then. I mostly hunt for meat and it is a great transit area for lots of deer and easy to get them out. Just wanted to grab a decent buck. I shot a decent size 8 point there at about the same spot a couple of years before.

<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300326.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300326.jpg</a>
<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300324.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300324.jpg</a>
<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300323.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300323.jpg</a>
View Quote



Every time I see a rifle and a deer together I get pissed off that I live in Ohio.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 3:35:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2013 7:13:18 PM EST by the_ak_kid]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
Having control of 500 acres obviously allows your management efforts to have a direct impact on the deer.

Don Kisky had a farm that he was able to grow giants on it. Why? He has huge food sources, good soil, the better genetics does not hurt but it was on 450 acres which allowed him to hold deer to give them age. You get to do this when you have control of large tracts. Not happening in my scenario and it is a proven fact that bucks will disperse from there birth area from 6 months to 1 1/2 years of age. So if half the fawns dropped are bucks and they disperse nothing guarantees you can attract an equal number of bucks to your area unless you have something to hold them. Again food, cover and does. We can only work with what we have.


View Quote



Having more does does NOT attract more deer. If you have 1000000 does on a piece of land that will only support 20 deer, you aren't going to magically draw in more bucks. You may get a couple new ones passing through during the peak of the rut but they won't stay and they damn sure wont be predictable.

I guess I'm thinking like a manager and you're thinking like a guy that leases 75 acres and expects to kill a trophy the first year.

I'm telling you, if you manage the place for age, you will see more and bigger bucks. I've worked in, on and around ranches most of my life.

But hey, you know your stuff.


I give up. Fuck science.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 2:38:12 AM EST
I give up. Fuck science.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/11/2013 11:07:38 AM EST
Well checked the camera again and so a bit bigger deer, a silurko In a lot of pics some does kept looking behind them so I am thinking there may be another bigger buck lurking.
Link Posted: 10/21/2013 4:24:33 PM EST
Well, I guess there is a bigger buck. I thought it was a 10 point, but it is a 9. It looks like he and the small 8 point have been fighting from the roughed up hide of the 8 point, that and the pics the camera got of them duking it out.






Link Posted: 10/26/2013 11:55:36 AM EST
Haven't seen the 9 point for this week. A new 8 point came by and then this guy, a really nice 11 point! The problem is that my 14 year old son is coming for the first time hunting and he thinks he gets the 11 point. The problem is that he is showing up at night and not during shooting hours.


Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:32:23 AM EST
what are the available crops in your area? When I was a kid growing up my dad and his friends took giant bucks every year. The, as the family dairy farm wound down and they planted less and eventually no corn, the deer herd was noticeably affected. In the past few years they have started planting again and I'm seeing big buck again, took a ten point last year.

You may want to consider some food plots.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:26:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
May have to just deal with it then. I mostly hunt for meat and it is a great transit area for lots of deer and easy to get them out. Just wanted to grab a decent buck. I shot a decent size 8 point there at about the same spot a couple of years before.

<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300326.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300326.jpg</a>
<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300324.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300324.jpg</a>
<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/user/truth10k/media/S6300323.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/truth10k/S6300323.jpg</a>
View Quote

This deer is upside down if hunting for meat. You dont want the blood pooling in the rear quarters.
The answer to your question is wait. Let the deer get bigger. That guy who comes by at night may change his tune during the rut.
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