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Posted: 9/29/2008 9:42:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 7:09:22 AM EDT by hk940]
i am going to take a deer this fall with my AR-15. 16" Armalite.
looking at using Hornady TAP ammo.
what do you think? i know it will kill them but will it drop them in their tracks?

see below for AAR

Link Posted: 9/29/2008 10:02:31 AM EDT
The TAP bullet is closer to a highly frangible varmint bullet than a hunting bullet.

I would use a more suitable bullet for hunting.
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 12:43:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 12:49:22 PM EDT
no.

Use a 64gr soft point.
Link Posted: 9/30/2008 4:21:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
no.

Use a 64gr soft point.



I would also go with this load. They group well out of my Armalite too. I have a 20 inch, that I sighted in last year for a back up rifle. I still prefer my Weatherby in 30-06, as it's proven to knock down larger deer.
Link Posted: 9/30/2008 6:30:21 AM EDT
If properly placed, it should do the trick nicely. I use 55 grain TAP.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:56:45 PM EDT
A police agency out in western ny was using TAP in 308win to thin out the deer herds. This round was chosen because it fragments quickly and has minimum risk for a through and through shot. They were culling in residential neighborhoods and over penetration was a real concern. They wanted a bullet that wouldnt exit and this one was better then the tested frangibles. As for using a 223 I would look for something using a bonded bullet that wont fragment. Premium big game bullets are made different for a reason. Shot placement is whats most important, but remember very few rounds will always drop them in their tracks even with a "perfect" shot. The smaller the round I think the less likely for those instant kills. Good luck what ever you decide.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:23:59 PM EDT
Personally, I would NOT use a varmint bullet on deer sized game. But, then again I would not use .223 either.

Instead you should choose the 64 grain power point or the Barnes TSX. These are designed for medium sized game.



-
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 7:49:47 AM EDT
AAR...

i spent quite a bit of time thinking about this before i decided to hunt with the 55 grain TAP FPD. i shot over 50 rounds at the range under varying weather and it shoots extremely consistently. from 45 deg up to 80 deg. i got 1 moa hits. after several range sessions i felt i could make the shot and the gun would put it where i wanted it. but would it do the job? would it really kill effectively and humanly? what is really humane? you be the judge.

this past weekend i shot two deer in Missouri. both were at about 50 yds and both broad side shots. i had cleaned and then fired cold bore shots to confirmed zero the day before the hunt.

the first deer was an 80# doe. she had trotted down a slope and paused at the edge of a clearing before crossing it. i lined up and shot her just behind the right shoulder. it was a perfect shot and she flinched and spun 180 degrees and bolted 15yds before piling up at the base of a tree. no visible entry or exit wounds and no blood on the ground. no leaking blood during transport. while skinning the deer we found a small entry wound about the size of a #2 pencil and no exit wound. it had neatly punched a rib and gone in and fragmented. during gutting the deer we found massive damage to the lungs and the heart was just blown to pulp. no other internal organs were damaged and there was no meat damage due to shrapnel on the back side of the deer. i am quite happy with the results.

the second deer was an 12# buck. he trotted cross and a little toward me on the hill and slowed to make his way thru some cedars. i shot him just as he was stepping into "clear air". i lined up and took careful aim and shot him just behind his left shoulder. it was a perfect shot and he dropped in his tracks. he kicked and then kicked again. he kicked a third time and that was when i put one in his neck that finished him.

(most the same) likewise no visible entry or exit wounds and no blood on the ground. no leaking blood during transport. while skinning the buck we found a small entry wound about the size of a #2 pencil and no exit wound. it had neatly punched between two ribs and gone in and fragmented. during gutting the deer we found massive damage to the lungs and perforations in the diaphragm. some stomach damage. no other internal organs were damaged and no meat damage from shrapnel. the damage from the second shot was localized to the neck and all the neck meat was a total loss as there was massive tissue damage and what was not shredded was blood shot. i have mixed feelings about the results. i don't like putting a deer down but i have done it with both the .308 Winchester and a 30-06 each time shooting core lock bullets.

in the past i have always felt that the only human way to take a deer is to drop it in it's tracks. i know bow hunters disagree with me. if i had not packed this gun i would have used a Marlin .444. a great deer gun and some would say a "brush buster". i only shot thru clear air so i don't know about that.

in conclusion i would like to say if you can pick your shoot and get close i feel you can take a deer with this round. the most surprising thing was the total lack of recoil. next jo to the trepidation of shooting a magnum in an awkward position this thing was a dream. i never lost the deer in the scope and could have fired constantly or at any moment after the initial shot. i will have to think and reflect on it some more but next year i plan to be shooting deer with this round. based on this i would expect to have to shoot a home intruder more than once to stop them.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:17:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 8:17:20 AM EDT by Aggie_Gunner]
Very well written AAR.

Of course, like you state, shot placement is key.

I'd be concerned about no blood trail, however.

For me, caliber/ bullet choice isn't about how it necessarily performs on the "perfect shot", but how it performs when, for whatever reason, your shot is less than optimal.

If something had happened, deer had started to bolt at the last instant, slight deflect by an unseen twig, etc... and the shot placement hadn't been as good... it would be difficult to track them with no blood.

I think this is one aspect that new hunters gloss over when asking about the .223 as a medium game cartride... it will work, probably every time, probably with a variety of projectiles, with optimal shot placement, but what about the "oops" shots?

- AG
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 9:18:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner:
Very well written AAR.

Of course, like you state, shot placement is key.

I'd be concerned about no blood trail, however.

For me, caliber/ bullet choice isn't about how it necessarily performs on the "perfect shot", but how it performs when, for whatever reason, your shot is less than optimal.

If something had happened, deer had started to bolt at the last instant, slight deflect by an unseen twig, etc... and the shot placement hadn't been as good... it would be difficult to track them with no blood.

I think this is one aspect that new hunters gloss over when asking about the .223 as a medium game cartride... it will work, probably every time, probably with a variety of projectiles, with optimal shot placement, but what about the "oops" shots?

- AG



Exactly, how they nicely went thru the ribs, or btween ribs, wait until it is off just a little and hits the big shoulder bone...if you shoot it with the same limitations of a bow, you should be good (not yardage wise, though).
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 9:24:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 9:30:02 AM EDT by HBruns]
Good report - good info!

Some people prefer an exit wound when shooting game since this is where most of your bleeding comes from. Tracking is much easier.

My fear about using highly frangible bullets for hunting is mostly centered around the chance of a large surface wound on the entry side and little penetration to the vitals. A shoulder hit would increase this probability, and the deer would still have three good legs to run on.

So long as you pick your target carefully, and are very confident of your ability to hit your target exactly where you want to (looks like you made sure of all these ), it sounds like the TAP round is quite suitable. You just have to stay within the limits you choose.

Personally, I would use the 22cal Nosler 60 Gr. Partition bullet if I were hunting deer with a 223, and I would limit this to smaller deer. This is an option for me since I reload - I do not know if these are available in factory ammo.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:19:57 AM EDT
i have 64gr federal softpoints and 75gr TAP to try.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:38:15 PM EDT

125lb doe with hornady tap 55 grain



entry hole. pencil sized in hide, fist sized in rib cage, round fragmented and turned rib bone into shrapnel



quarter sized hole leaving rib cage behind shoulder. no exit in hide, dont know where the fragments went. deer dropped in its tracks, o.o feet.
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