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Link Posted: 3/22/2020 1:11:44 AM EDT
@Skibane

Thanks for keeping this thread going.  Great stuff!
Link Posted: 3/22/2020 9:43:23 AM EDT
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Much appreciated
Link Posted: 3/22/2020 10:05:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By zoom:

We went through several EU2000i models at work, and they all leaked gas badly and were hard to start. Three of them needed new
inverters and two used a lot of oil probably from all of the starter fluid we had to use to get them to start.  I'd recommend buying nearly anything else besides a Honda.z
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Originally Posted By zoom:
Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:
5. Honda EU2000i, A 1600 watt (cont) inverter generator that is the defacto standard for clean power and low fuel consumption.  But how good is it really?

We went through several EU2000i models at work, and they all leaked gas badly and were hard to start. Three of them needed new
inverters and two used a lot of oil probably from all of the starter fluid we had to use to get them to start.  I'd recommend buying nearly anything else besides a Honda.z


Honda is the benchmark....so your experience is not the norm.
Link Posted: 5/1/2020 1:31:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2020 2:08:14 AM EDT by Skibane]
Originally Posted By zoom:
We went through several EU2000i models at work, and they all leaked gas badly
View Quote

Honda had a recall for that

(placeholder for more pix)
Link Posted: 5/5/2020 8:57:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2020 12:27:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Skibane:
http://www.skibane.xyz/CPE_100216_Waveforms.jpg
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Not the worst I've seen, but far from the best.  

So where do you find these generators to test?  
Link Posted: 5/6/2020 12:45:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2020 4:37:35 AM EDT by Skibane]
Yeh, it's not too purdy, but it's better than the power in most 3rd-world countries - Maybe even some Texas border towns...

It doesn't have anything that's likely to damage most loads - no HV spikes or seriously off line frequency.

So where do you find these generators to test?
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All of these generators are part of The Skibane Collection.
Link Posted: 6/7/2020 1:16:50 AM EDT
(Placeholder for) this bad boy:


Link Posted: 6/7/2020 1:53:57 AM EDT
Very informative, thanks.
Link Posted: 6/7/2020 2:11:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2020 2:12:25 AM EDT by Exorpmtech]
Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:
4. Vector MAXX 700, A big box store modified sine wave inverter I keep in the truck for running a grinder in the field.  (off road weld repairs)  It runs the grinder very well, no start issues.  Always works when needed, but motors run a little slower than line power and electronics "hum" more.  Clearly not desirable for long term use.
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/183373830400_/Vector-MAXX-SST-700-watt-DC-to-AC.jpg

Signal is clean for a modified sine wave, but those big, rapid jumps in voltage are hell on electronics.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48733256988_8063923b51_o.jpg
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I loled.  That's terrible for an AC output.
Link Posted: 6/8/2020 6:11:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Exorpmtech:


I loled.  That's terrible for an AC output.
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Originally Posted By Exorpmtech:
Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:
4. Vector MAXX 700, A big box store modified sine wave inverter I keep in the truck for running a grinder in the field.  (off road weld repairs)  It runs the grinder very well, no start issues.  Always works when needed, but motors run a little slower than line power and electronics "hum" more.  Clearly not desirable for long term use.
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/183373830400_/Vector-MAXX-SST-700-watt-DC-to-AC.jpg

Signal is clean for a modified sine wave, but those big, rapid jumps in voltage are hell on electronics.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48733256988_8063923b51_o.jpg


I loled.  That's terrible for an AC output.



That's why it's there.  A lot of people have love for cheap modified sinewave inverters.   Same with cheap box store gennies.  Pictures are worth a 1000 words.

Problem is neither one will kill electronics instantly, so the average consumer assumes no harm is being done.
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 10:01:12 AM EDT
Any chance you could test a Harbor Freight 2k Inverter Genny?
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 1:36:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By PointBlank82:
Any chance you could test a Harbor Freight 2k Inverter Genny?
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Or a 4k Predator genny?
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 1:41:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:

Or a 4k Predator genny?
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Also, how well do the inverters handle variable speed due to changing fuel types? I picked up a tri-fuel conversion for my 2k HF genny and am curious.
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 7:02:10 PM EDT
I have a Gillette "Clean Power" genny, and if new price (I got it used) is any indicator of quality they offer very clean power. I would like to see what it shows but have no way of checking it...

A nerd like me should really have an oscilloscope but I don't...
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 2:49:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By PointBlank82:


Also, how well do the inverters handle variable speed due to changing fuel types? I picked up a tri-fuel conversion for my 2k HF genny and am curious.
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I will test a 2K Predator gen if I can get my hands on one.

With fuel types, speed does not change because it is controlled by the governor.  Power output can drop slightly, but as long as you're not at max power, you wouldn't  noticed a difference.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 11:21:15 AM EDT
Thanks Skibane! Great thread.
Link Posted: 10/22/2020 1:12:02 AM EDT
Great thread!
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 9:11:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2021 10:13:34 PM EDT by Rock_Ranger]
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 9:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2021 10:14:30 PM EDT by Rock_Ranger]
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 8:02:59 PM EDT
If you get the chance, I would love to see a review on the recent release of Generac Generators.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 11:33:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NoMoreGreen:
If you get the chance, I would love to see a review on the recent release of Generac Generators.
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Wish I could help.  Most people around here dont own any generators.

What models were you looking at?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 12:06:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:


Wish I could help.  Most people around here dont own any generators.

What models were you looking at?
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https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/gp-series/gp2200i

They are obviously taking a direct stab at the Honda market. Much like the predator generators. I am mostly curious about how clean the sine wave is. I would think if any one of the generators had a clean sine wave they all would.

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/gp-series/gp2500i

They seem to have a lot of overlap too. These two generators above are $50 apart and very close in specs.

NMG
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 2:28:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NoMoreGreen:



https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/gp-series/gp2200i

They are obviously taking a direct stab at the Honda market. Much like the predator generators. I am mostly curious about how clean the sine wave is. I would think if any one of the generators had a clean sine wave they all would.

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/gp-series/gp2500i

They seem to have a lot of overlap too. These two generators above are $50 apart and very close in specs.

NMG
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Every budget inverter gen I've seen makes decently clean power.  Far better than name brand 3600rpm brushed units like the Honda 6500 shown above.  The premium you pay for a Honda buys you basically perfect power output, lower noise, reliability, and the biggest difference I've seen, lower fuel consumption.

Even Harbor Freight makes a decent inverter gen, but build quality, noise and fuel consumption cant match a Honda.  Maybe 90% of the way there though and a world better than 3600 rpm brushed units.
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 12:40:55 AM EDT
I am just thinking ahead to the future when I get my 5-10 acres.
Now I am more confused than before I started😵
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 7:04:07 AM EDT
What is worse dirty power or no power?

Link Posted: 2/16/2021 7:33:01 AM EDT
Thanks for posting.
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 8:25:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Skibane:


GFCI's and UPS's tend to get fussy if the generator's Neutral and Ground wires aren't connected (or "bonded") together.

When you're connected to utility power, these two wires are typically connected together at the main breaker box or main disconnect switch.

However, a lot generators don't have them connected internally - which means that you have to make the connection externally.
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Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By RaptorFuel:
I have a non-inverter generator.  It pops some of the GFIs in my circuit panel.  Could the not very clean power be the reason?


GFCI's and UPS's tend to get fussy if the generator's Neutral and Ground wires aren't connected (or "bonded") together.

When you're connected to utility power, these two wires are typically connected together at the main breaker box or main disconnect switch.

However, a lot generators don't have them connected internally - which means that you have to make the connection externally.


@RaptorFuel

That's easily done with a replacement plug.  Connect the common to the ground and plug it into the generator.

MissingImage
Failed To Load Product Data

Link Posted: 2/16/2021 11:45:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:

Wish I could help.  Most people around here dont own any generators.

What models were you looking at?
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Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:
Originally Posted By NoMoreGreen:
If you get the chance, I would love to see a review on the recent release of Generac Generators.

Wish I could help.  Most people around here dont own any generators.

What models were you looking at?

What about this Generac portable generator? They claim it has clean power for electronics, but I have no idea how accurate that is. They could claim it but who would know?

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/xt-series/xt8500efi

8,500 watt fuel injected
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 11:49:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By PAspeedmaster:
What is worse dirty power or no power?

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No power is much worse.

"Dirty" power is still usable for a lot of purposes.

Many loads couldn't care less about the waveform a generator produces, just as long as its voltage and frequency are within reasonable limits.
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 12:05:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By PAspeedmaster:
What is worse dirty power or no power?

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Dirt power just shortens the life of products, but in an emergency, its better than nothing.
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 10:00:55 PM EDT
Electronics that have AC motors or transformers (microwaves) like a smooth sine wave.

Most DC powered electronics use a switching power supply. Step 1 is running the AC through a full wave bridge rectifier to a set of 400v caps and inductors. They don't care (usually) if its 100v-250v 50 or 60 hertz and would just as gladly run off 187VDC. What is some distortion on the incoming power going to do to it?
Link Posted: 2/17/2021 12:11:58 AM EDT
Looking to buy a Champion portable unit that will run my house. It’s 8500 running watts. What is the biggest inverters I can get, and can the big ones be ran in parallel?
Link Posted: 2/17/2021 2:39:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

What about this Generac portable generator? They claim it has clean power for electronics, but I have no idea how accurate that is. They could claim it but who would know?

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/xt-series/xt8500efi

8,500 watt fuel injected
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Its 3600 rpm and likely brushed.  Results similar to Honda EB6500 I posted.

For that wattage range, look at a MEP-802a or Honda EU7000i
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 10:54:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2021 12:39:19 AM EDT by pepperbelly]
I was looking around online to see what is out there. I will buy one after things settle down.
Lowes has a Champion 4650 watt inverter generator.

I haven’t added up the amount I will need. I don’t think I need to get one big enough to run my ac but I do want one big enough to run the blower-I have gas heat, plus the fridge and charge phones and power a tv.
I looked at the Harbor Freight 3500 watt inverter mentioned earlier, but the Champion has over 1000 more watts and is about $75 cheaper.

Are most inverter generators similar enough that getting more for less is a no brainer?

Edited to add the Champion has 4650 starting watts and 3650 running watts.
The Predator 3500 has 3500 starting watts snd 3000 running watts.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 5:35:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
I was looking around online to see what is out there. I will buy one after things settle down.
Lowes has a Champion 4650 watt inverterR

Are most inverter generators similar enough that getting more for less is a no brainer?

Edited to add the Champion has 4650 starting watts and 3650 running watts.
The Predator 3500 has 3500 starting watts snd 3000 running watts.
View Quote



I screwed up. I ordered a pair the Home Depot 4650s. What I thought I was ordering was open frame 4500s. The open frames are more compact for storage and have larger fuel tanks. I guess I’ll be returning the 4650s when they show up. I thought I was saving some money, but I just screwed up. My plan is to run them parallel, but if one goes down, atleast I have enough juice to run the well and my freezers.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 8:38:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:



I screwed up. I ordered a pair the Home Depot 4650s. What I thought I was ordering was open frame 4500s. The open frames are more compact for storage and have larger fuel tanks. I guess I’ll be returning the 4650s when they show up. I thought I was saving some money, but I just screwed up. My plan is to run them parallel, but if one goes down, atleast I have enough juice to run the well and my freezers.
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
I was looking around online to see what is out there. I will buy one after things settle down.
Lowes has a Champion 4650 watt inverterR

Are most inverter generators similar enough that getting more for less is a no brainer?

Edited to add the Champion has 4650 starting watts and 3650 running watts.
The Predator 3500 has 3500 starting watts snd 3000 running watts.



I screwed up. I ordered a pair the Home Depot 4650s. What I thought I was ordering was open frame 4500s. The open frames are more compact for storage and have larger fuel tanks. I guess I’ll be returning the 4650s when they show up. I thought I was saving some money, but I just screwed up. My plan is to run them parallel, but if one goes down, atleast I have enough juice to run the well and my freezers.


Are you sure the 4500s are more compact?
The 4650s are inverter generators and look smaller. They can be run in parallel.
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 8:08:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:



I screwed up. I ordered a pair the Home Depot 4650s. What I thought I was ordering was open frame 4500s. The open frames are more compact for storage and have larger fuel tanks. I guess I’ll be returning the 4650s when they show up. I thought I was saving some money, but I just screwed up. My plan is to run them parallel, but if one goes down, atleast I have enough juice to run the well and my freezers.
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
I was looking around online to see what is out there. I will buy one after things settle down.
Lowes has a Champion 4650 watt inverterR

Are most inverter generators similar enough that getting more for less is a no brainer?

Edited to add the Champion has 4650 starting watts and 3650 running watts.
The Predator 3500 has 3500 starting watts snd 3000 running watts.



I screwed up. I ordered a pair the Home Depot 4650s. What I thought I was ordering was open frame 4500s. The open frames are more compact for storage and have larger fuel tanks. I guess I’ll be returning the 4650s when they show up. I thought I was saving some money, but I just screwed up. My plan is to run them parallel, but if one goes down, atleast I have enough juice to run the well and my freezers.


If they were cheaper, I’d keep em

Not a big size difference, and I’d prefer the slightly quieter closed frame
They are 20lbs heavier than the 4500s tho...
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 6:29:16 PM EDT
I did some browsing today, and found that the newer Champion inverter generators can (seemingly) all parallel with each other if the wattage range is remotely close. But the older cube-shaped 2000W inverter generator isn’t compatible with any of the newer ones. I had intended to get a second small one to parallel to get 30A, but now I need to either buy the 3400W generator, two of the smaller ones (and sell mine), or find an older one somewhere to parallel with mine.
Link Posted: 3/11/2021 12:25:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2021 12:30:31 AM EDT by Davidrw5150]
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Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:


Every budget inverter gen I've seen makes decently clean power.  Far better than name brand 3600rpm brushed units like the Honda 6500 shown above.  The premium you pay for a Honda buys you basically perfect power output, lower noise, reliability, and the biggest difference I've seen, lower fuel consumption.

Even Harbor Freight makes a decent inverter gen, but build quality, noise and fuel consumption cant match a Honda.  Maybe 90% of the way there though and a world better than 3600 rpm brushed units.
View Quote


I have had a HF Predator 3500 Gen/ Inverter now for 18 months on my off grid property in N. Idaho. I use it as back up to my modest solar system and it just turned over 3200 hrs. It has operated flawlessly! The only setback I have had is that a mouse got in it last winter and ate through the pull start rope and I have not been able to figure out how to get into it from that side to repair it. I change the oil every 200 hours and always it starts in the first two tries with the electric start. If it went down tomorrow I would not hesitate to buy another.

It can run my cabin.... Computer, Satellite router, various charging batteries (phone, cordless tools, cameras, solar system etc) some 120v lights and the occasional blender / mixer for 12-14 hours on a tank of gas.
Link Posted: 3/12/2021 1:45:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Davidrw5150:


I have had a HF Predator 3500 Gen/ Inverter now for 18 months on my off grid property in N. Idaho. I use it as back up to my modest solar system and it just turned over 3200 hrs. It has operated flawlessly! The only setback I have had is that a mouse got in it last winter and ate through the pull start rope and I have not been able to figure out how to get into it from that side to repair it. I change the oil every 200 hours and always it starts in the first two tries with the electric start. If it went down tomorrow I would not hesitate to buy another.

It can run my cabin.... Computer, Satellite router, various charging batteries (phone, cordless tools, cameras, solar system etc) some 120v lights and the occasional blender / mixer for 12-14 hours on a tank of gas.
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Ever get the waveform checked? There was an earlier photo of a sine wave with little spikes on it; would that raise havoc with electronics?

OR, is there a way to filter the AC coming off the genny?
Link Posted: 3/12/2021 8:58:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:


Ever get the waveform checked? There was an earlier photo of a sine wave with little spikes on it; would that raise havoc with electronics?

OR, is there a way to filter the AC coming off the genny?
View Quote



I have never had it tested. I also have had the same computer, phone, etc... the whole time I have been here at the cabin. (Approx. 18 mos.)
Link Posted: 3/12/2021 11:31:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Davidrw5150:



I have never had it tested. I also have had the same computer, phone, etc... the whole time I have been here at the cabin. (Approx. 18 mos.)
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Originally Posted By Davidrw5150:
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:


Ever get the waveform checked? There was an earlier photo of a sine wave with little spikes on it; would that raise havoc with electronics?

OR, is there a way to filter the AC coming off the genny?



I have never had it tested. I also have had the same computer, phone, etc... the whole time I have been here at the cabin. (Approx. 18 mos.)


The Predator 3500 inverter has a clean waveform, I posted a picture in the OP.
Link Posted: 3/28/2021 6:52:33 PM EDT
I am curious what the WEN 56203i looks like.  I bought two back when they were on sale.  One was a giant rattle.  It took a weeks and finally threatening to blast them on all social media to get them to respond to the ticket.  I have to say their customer service is the worst I have seen outside of the government.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:59:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2021 8:01:23 AM EDT by dablues]
 I had a Prosine 2.0,  but it died.  There's no after market service and there is no documentation or schematics available -- deliberately.

Xantrex is a close runner-up ... " I have to say their customer service is the worst I have seen outside of the government."

What is useful inside that I can salvage?
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 3:33:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dablues:
 I had a Prosine 2.0,  but it died.  There's no after market service and there is no documentation or schematics available -- deliberately.

Xantrex is a close runner-up ... " I have to say their customer service is the worst I have seen outside of the government."

What is useful inside that I can salvage?
View Quote



Really not much.  Breaker, transfer relay, outlets.

Drive transistors or other discrete components if you're an electronics guy.
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 8:00:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

What about this Generac portable generator? They claim it has clean power for electronics, but I have no idea how accurate that is. They could claim it but who would know?

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/xt-series/xt8500efi

8,500 watt fuel injected
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger:
Originally Posted By NoMoreGreen:
If you get the chance, I would love to see a review on the recent release of Generac Generators.

Wish I could help.  Most people around here dont own any generators.

What models were you looking at?

What about this Generac portable generator? They claim it has clean power for electronics, but I have no idea how accurate that is. They could claim it but who would know?

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/xt-series/xt8500efi

8,500 watt fuel injected

Odd

No 50amp receptacle

Figured at 8.5kw it would be a no brainer

That’s what I’m looking for 8k with a 50 A outlet. Runs everything I need in an emergency
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 2:14:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cpn_Ron:
I did some browsing today, and found that the newer Champion inverter generators can (seemingly) all parallel with each other if the wattage range is remotely close. But the older cube-shaped 2000W inverter generator isn’t compatible with any of the newer ones. I had intended to get a second small one to parallel to get 30A, but now I need to either buy the 3400W generator, two of the smaller ones (and sell mine), or find an older one somewhere to parallel with mine.
View Quote

@Cpn_Ron I was looking at this today.  It looks like the parallel kit has a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, but it does not put out 240 volts.  I'm not sure how that is supposed to work if the generator panel puts out 240 volts. Also home depot said it was unavailable/discontinued.
Link Posted: 4/14/2021 6:04:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jordanmills:

@Cpn_Ron I was looking at this today.  It looks like the parallel kit has a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, but it does not put out 240 volts.  I'm not sure how that is supposed to work if the generator panel puts out 240 volts. Also home depot said it was unavailable/discontinued.
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Originally Posted By jordanmills:
Originally Posted By Cpn_Ron:
I did some browsing today, and found that the newer Champion inverter generators can (seemingly) all parallel with each other if the wattage range is remotely close. But the older cube-shaped 2000W inverter generator isn’t compatible with any of the newer ones. I had intended to get a second small one to parallel to get 30A, but now I need to either buy the 3400W generator, two of the smaller ones (and sell mine), or find an older one somewhere to parallel with mine.

@Cpn_Ron I was looking at this today.  It looks like the parallel kit has a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, but it does not put out 240 volts.  I'm not sure how that is supposed to work if the generator panel puts out 240 volts. Also home depot said it was unavailable/discontinued.

@jordanmills The parallel kits only provide more amperage at 120V. I’m not aware of any portable inverter generators that put out 240 volts, only non-inverter units.

<—-NOT a generator expert.
Link Posted: 4/14/2021 6:11:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cpn_Ron:

@jordanmills The parallel kits only provide more amperage at 120V. I’m not aware of any portable inverter generators that put out 240 volts, only non-inverter units.

<—-NOT a generator expert.
View Quote

@Cpn_Ron

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champion-Power-Equipment-6250-Watt-Open-Frame-Inverter-with-Quiet-Technology-100519/308252910

https://powerequipment.honda.com/Generators/models/eu7000is

Those are examples.  Most just do 120 V, and most of those do it with floating neutral (i.e. hot and neutral vary 60 volts to chassis ground which sucks).
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