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Posted: 11/16/2012 5:52:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:54:05 AM EST by Kibby]
I can't remember if I've posted this here before, but there has been so many "what should I get" type of posts recently, that I thought I should post it... or repost it. Heh!

Four Weapons of the Apocalypse

I’ve been musing over what would be the essential four firearms that should be in everyone’s survival arsenal. If the world as we know it crashed in all around us tomorrow, what would be the top four most-needed, most-useful weapons? So what should be the paradigm? In any survival discussion, there are common trends of thought that people discuss. Generators, bug-out bags, long-term food storage. These are our survival paradigms… codes of conduct, or standards if you will. Has anyone ever discussed the established status quo? I submit to you, my brethren fellowship, my choices or the Four Weapons of the Apocalypse:

#1 A .22 Caliber Rifle.

For this I choose the mighty Ruger 10/22. The semi-auto action is solid and effectively digests thousands of rounds of even the crappiest ammunition. Great for small game, and in a pinch, it can be handed off and used as extra defensive firepower. The 10/22 is hands-down master of the quick-reload. The 10-round factory magazines are the most-reliable, but there are now fully-machined 25-rd aftermarket magazines that have even more solidity and precision than stock. Surely there are other rifles that will be more accurate than the 10/22, but the 10/22 is a winner for its great combination of quality, ease of use, and reliability.

#2 A Scoped Bolt-action Centerfire Hunting Rifle

We could argue the best choice for this category, but I will leave that up to you. I personally will be choosing my Remington 700 in .308 with the marvelous Leupold scope. A fine rifle indeed, and basically bomb-proof. A reliable weapon for harvesting big game, or in a pinch, a tactical weapon for those longer precision shots. The bolt-action hunting rifle is by no means a sniper-quality shooter, but a minute-of-scumbag shot out to 500 yards is easily possible. A fine-quality scope can mean the difference of accuracy that your life may depend upon.

#3 A 12-gauge Shotgun

If there were one weapon that could do it all, the venerable shotgun would come very close. The shotgun is an incomparable tool for shooting birds for the table or serving equal duty as a buckshot-loaded deer gun. With a scope and a rifled slug-barrel, you can easily drop elk and moose. As a close-quarter defensive weapon, the shotgun reigns supreme. A simple single-shot break-action shotgun would work very well, but a basic pump shotgun would be my pick. There will always be debates over which brand name is best, but even an old used pawn-shop Ithaca, or a hammered and beat up Mossberg would be better than no shotgun at all.

#4 A Handgun

This was perhaps the toughest category to nail down. My thoughts ran from identifying another long-gun category, or making the determination that a handgun is the logical fourth choice for a must-have weapon. A sidearm would be best to carry as a backup weapon, allowing you to stay armed while doing chores needing both hands. A sidearm fills the bill for so many things, the list would go one forever, but suffice to say that the plausible uses for one soon made this a clear decision. Contemplating the best handgun choice was also quite a chore, given the many variables in which one could possibly use a handgun.

My top picks boiled down to a couple serious contenders: The 1911 .45 pistol and a large-bore revolver. I went with a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .44 Magnum revolver for its sheer reliability and versatility. Pull the trigger and it works… every time. No fuss, no bother, and enough power to take out a grizzly bear or a pcp-crazed invader. It is also a very compact handgun, considering its sizeable caliber.

Disclaimer:

Feel free to debate these choices, as nothing is set in stone. I have always maintained that the best gun to use is the one you have when you need it. What works in one person’s AO may not work very well in another’s. For instance, many Westerners do not see a need in this list for a shotgun, instead preferring a long-range weapon. Many Easterners and urbanites can’t tolerate the idea of not having a shotgun for close quarters and bird hunting.

Also, many of you will probably take note that this list does not include a main battle rifle. For many people, and for the purposes of determining a “basic four,” I did not elect to include one in this essay because not everyone will need one, and I feel that having one would be a luxury more than a necessity, which is also a subject for debate. The above four represents what I, in my twisted logic, truly believe to be an essential arsenal for the end of the world. This is the basic four. Anything added to it would be icing on the cake.

One last thing…

People who have read this have mistaken me for suggesting that you carry all of these guns at once. That’s not my intent. What sort of idiot would would attempt to carry all these at once? This is a list of suggested guns for preppers, not zombie-killers.


Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:02:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 6:03:24 AM EST by hotbiggun42]
I would choose the AR15 for my rifle. It is light, accurate and can be used for hunting and self defense. Ammunition is plentiful and the rifle can be easily repaired if needed.
I chose the XD45 as my pistol. It is the most reliable 45 I have ever owned. Reminds me I need another.
Shotgun I chose the mossberg 590A1.
I have a 10 /22 for my 22lr. Personally I think the 22lr is overrated for a survival tool but they are cheap to shoot.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:09:03 AM EST
I would prefer 17 rounds of 9mm in a Glock 17 or 14 rounds of 45acp from a Glock 21 rather than a revolver, but not a bad list
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:18:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I have a 10 /22 for my 22lr. Personally I think the 22lr is overrated for a survival tool but they are cheap to shoot.


When you can get dinner or pop zombies in the eye without letting everything with ears know where you are, you'll be more accepting. Of course, I've got a Sparrow...
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:01:45 AM EST
The four I mentioned are a good place to start, and represent what new people should try to get before all else. This is only my opinion, but people have to have a starting point. Its easy for folks to say, "Oh yeah, the AR is the best, blah blah blah," but if you don't have the basics, you wont be successful. Besides, it is also my belief that if you are green enough to be asking what you should have for a weapon, you dont know all of the weaponry skills needed to survive. Guns and ammo are a self-study. Having a selection of basic arms will allow you to explore the pros and cons of each weapon, and develop preferences for a particular task. Guns are tools, and nothing more. You can drive a nail with a sledgehammer, but would you want to?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:14:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 7:23:41 AM EST by hotbiggun42]
Originally Posted By Kibby:
The four I mentioned are a good place to start, and represent what new people should try to get before all else. This is only my opinion, but people have to have a starting point. Its easy for folks to say, "Oh yeah, the AR is the best, blah blah blah," but if you don't have the basics, you wont be successful. Besides, it is also my belief that if you are green enough to be asking what you should have for a weapon, you dont know all of the weaponry skills needed to survive. Guns and ammo are a self-study. Having a selection of basic arms will allow you to explore the pros and cons of each weapon, and develop preferences for a particular task. Guns are tools, and nothing more. You can drive a nail with a sledgehammer, but would you want to?


Not all of us are young men and new to firearms. I am pushing 50 and have been around firearms my entire life. Well i remember having a 410 hanging over my bed when i was 7 .

The AR is a high caliber rifle that can be repaired without specialized tools. And can kill anything in North America with the proper range and shot placement.
It is true I have no experience using a firearm as a weapon but I think I could hold my own. With a little luck and the help of the Allmighty

If I could choose one "tool" for the purpose of gathering food I would choose a fishing pole
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:30:22 AM EST
My four:

AR15
GLOCK 17/19
RUGER 10/22 for my boys

Then, EITHER (or both to stretch it to five, thus blowing the title literary reference):

.22/45 Ruger pistol
12 guage shotgun

Both primary handgun and primary rifle are lightweight, with lightweight ammo, very available and cheap. Everyone knows how to fix them; common spare parts and mags.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:31:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 7:33:20 AM EST by cml2501]
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Kibby:
The four I mentioned are a good place to start, and represent what new people should try to get before all else. This is only my opinion, but people have to have a starting point. Its easy for folks to say, "Oh yeah, the AR is the best, blah blah blah," but if you don't have the basics, you wont be successful. Besides, it is also my belief that if you are green enough to be asking what you should have for a weapon, you dont know all of the weaponry skills needed to survive. Guns and ammo are a self-study. Having a selection of basic arms will allow you to explore the pros and cons of each weapon, and develop preferences for a particular task. Guns are tools, and nothing more. You can drive a nail with a sledgehammer, but would you want to?


Not all of us are young men and new to firearms. I am pushing 50 and have been around firearms my entire life. Well i remember having a 410 hanging over my bed when i was 7 .

The AR is a high caliber rifle that can be repaired without specialized tools. And can kill anything in North America with the proper range and shot placement.
It is true I have no experience using a firearm as a weapon but I think I could hold my own. With a little luck and the help of the Allmighty

If I could choose one "tool" for the purpose of gathering food I would choose a fishing pole



Well said.

If I were to recommend a new prepper a gun it would be the AR-15.
And I'd recommend he master it (within reason) before buying anything else.

That said; I have dozens of guns, but my go-to would be:
AR-15
12ga
and my 1911 (as backup only)
and my .22

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:44:02 AM EST
My ar and 22 kit suppressed
Cz p01 with kadet
If I could choose more:
Pump 12ga
Marlin 981t
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:53:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I would choose the AR15 for my rifle. It is light, accurate and can be used for hunting and self defense. Ammunition is plentiful and the rifle can be easily repaired if needed. Agreed
I chose the XD45 as my pistol. It is the most reliable 45 I have ever owned. Reminds me I need another. XDM40...16 round clips
Shotgun I chose the mossberg 590A1. If you got one great, I'll take my wingmaster
I have a 10 /22 for my 22lr. Personally I think the 22lr is overrated for a survival tool but they are cheap to shoot.
Perfect, just rounded out my 22lr to 10K on hand

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:54:21 AM EST
I think most people could agree on a master list, but the gun you have will likely be the gun you run....and the one you suggest.

-Moss 500
-ruger mk2 family
-ruger 10/22
-g17
-AR

You can get the job done with variation on that theme, but I believe it's a solid foundation.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:02:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 8:03:21 AM EST by Kibby]
Originally Posted By cml2501:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Kibby:
The four I mentioned are a good place to start, and represent what new people should try to get before all else. This is only my opinion, but people have to have a starting point. Its easy for folks to say, "Oh yeah, the AR is the best, blah blah blah," but if you don't have the basics, you wont be successful. Besides, it is also my belief that if you are green enough to be asking what you should have for a weapon, you dont know all of the weaponry skills needed to survive. Guns and ammo are a self-study. Having a selection of basic arms will allow you to explore the pros and cons of each weapon, and develop preferences for a particular task. Guns are tools, and nothing more. You can drive a nail with a sledgehammer, but would you want to?


Not all of us are young men and new to firearms. I am pushing 50 and have been around firearms my entire life. Well i remember having a 410 hanging over my bed when i was 7 .

The AR is a high caliber rifle that can be repaired without specialized tools. And can kill anything in North America with the proper range and shot placement.
It is true I have no experience using a firearm as a weapon but I think I could hold my own. With a little luck and the help of the Allmighty

If I could choose one "tool" for the purpose of gathering food I would choose a fishing pole



Well said.

If I were to recommend a new prepper a gun it would be the AR-15.
And I'd recommend he master it (within reason) before buying anything else.

That said; I have dozens of guns, but my go-to would be:
AR-15
12ga
and my 1911 (as backup only)
and my .22



I started this thread to give new people a place to start and things to consider. I also started this thread for the experienced people to add their comments as well. This is not an end-all-be-all list, just a suggested list.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:08:23 AM EST
I personally think the shotgun is over rated. It can do what a .22 rifle can do with small game and it can do what a high power rifle can on larger game and for defense, so if you plan on having only one gun, it has it's merit. On the other hand, It does neither as well as those two rifles and it's ammo is way too bulky. I say that if you happen to own a shotgun, go ahead and stock ammo for it, but if you are building a survival arsenal the shotgun is not a necessity.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:16:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By billy8221969:
I personally think the shotgun is over rated. It can do what a .22 rifle can do with small game and it can do what a high power rifle can on larger game and for defense, so if you plan on having only one gun, it has it's merit. On the other hand, It does neither as well as those two rifles and it's ammo is way too bulky. I say that if you happen to own a shotgun, go ahead and stock ammo for it, but if you are building a survival arsenal the shotgun is not a necessity.


What if you're down to waterfowl for sustenance?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:47:45 AM EST
10-22 Sporter stainless
AR-15 preferably a Colt or LMT
Glock 34 or a 1911
Remington 870 Police or a Benelli M4

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:50:38 AM EST
10/22 Takedown
AR15 w/ Acog
Glock 19
12ga 870
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:45:51 AM EST
my post #3439

Posted by PA22-400 a while back:

This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answers that you get that have been standard for decades because some famous survivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.
You must have that following weapons:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting (individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no use for a shotgun.
3) a handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308. SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn't matter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter if you have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules you may not sell your 308, you should keep your AK, you need a shotgun, and your ammo stocks have been measured and found lacking.



Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:24:39 AM EST
I'm content with the load-out I have currently:

.22 - Marlin 60 with scope
Shotgun - 12ga that I'm blanking on and cannot recall the brand name right now. It's fitted with an under-barrel flashlight
Handgun - Torn between my Taurus 1911 which shoots like a dream and my FNP .45 solely because the magazine is double stacked - less reloading
Rifle - Torn between my Olympic Arms AR with red / green dot scope or my Mosin Nagant that brings proven reliability and stopping power - I'll be looking into mounting a scope to it after the holidays pass

Overall, I'm leaning towards my 1911 and mosin. The mosin would bring stopping power for things that the .22 would struggle with. The AR is more powerful, but in a true SHTF / apocalyptic scenario, if you're trouncing through woodlands, and fancy, plastic AR - while being light and maneuverable - is much more fragile than the stout, built-like-a-brick mosin. You'll know you're hauling a mosin around though.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:49:03 AM EST
Well I've thinned the herd a little but if I had to choose 4.

Marlin 918 T with Bushnel optics Just a nice shootin little .22 can shoot the eye outta most vermin in the crosshairs.
Moss 500 12ga. have both barrels, Birds deer, 2 legged vermin. I expect anything that walks in front of it will stop walking if I pull the trigger.
Rem 700 in 7mm mag with Burris optics. I'm getting older and tend not to go for the long range shots anymore. My 30.30 with iron sites has killed more deer but I know the Winchester just won't do in this discussion.
Sig P220 'nuff said.
But this is just a theoretical discussion of shtf. Noise in the yard tonight I'm grabbing the same Winchester I've been reachin for the last 50 odd years

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:38:22 PM EST
AR-15 with .22 kit or a .22 upper
Glock 19 with Advantage Arms .22 conversion
.308 bolt gun, probably my Remington SPS Tactical
Remington 870
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:52:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 3:54:34 PM EST by manowar669]
I'll go to three, lose the 12ga. Shotguns really give you nothing that you can't do better another way. Ammo is heavy and bulky, low capacity and limited range. As a survival weapon, that's not a good resume. Why a shotgun? There is no reason for it.

A spool of tightline will get you more birds and waterfowl you can shake a stick at, and you don't even have to be there. As a combat weapon, they're crap.

I'll say AR15, Glock 9mm, .22lr (10/22 probably).
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:06:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By manowar669:
I'll go to three, lose the 12ga. Shotguns really give you nothing that you can't do better another way. Ammo is heavy and bulky, low capacity and limited range. As a survival weapon, that's not a good resume. Why a shotgun? There is no reason for it.

A spool of tightline will get you more birds and waterfowl you can shake a stick at, and you don't even have to be there. As a combat weapon, they're crap.

I'll say AR15, Glock 9mm, .22lr (10/22 probably).



I expect you have never seen combat....might ought to do your homework before making statements like above.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:32:32 PM EST
As much as I really hate to agree (I really love my 870), I wouldn't put a shotgun as a necessay item for 'the apocalypse'. While useful, a bolt rifle can take large game and the .22 can take small game. You can include it perhaps if your main source of food is going to have to be game birds, but that is prety much AO dependant. I'm not going to argue the AR vs bolt rifle angle as I see that as preference, but I agree that at minimum you should have a bolt rifle, if not a good comparable semi-auto.

Ruger 10/22
AR-15 (I also have my Rem 700 30-06)
Rem 870 (just because I dont see a need for it, doesnt meen I dont have one)
Baretta 92 (I know alot of peole dont like them, but I love mine and they work well for me)
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:47:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 4:49:07 PM EST by ROCK6]
These are always good debates and it remains paramount that everybody’s situation is always a little different and the environment/location will always play a big role in requirement selection. I would also add that training and experience are aspects that influence decisions.

As mentioned, the shotgun choice always brings up significant difference of opinions. As a homestead firearm, I think it will always merit serious consideration and with appropriate training they are extremely viable defensive weapons.

What I like is that the OPs thought-process and selection are pretty conservative and for the most part, inexpensive; however, they add a lot of versatility to an apocalypse arsenal.

For me, after a little consideration, my choice would be:

Glock 19 9mm – I have several pistols or revolvers to choose from, but it’s a sound choice as are others (Sig, Beretta, CZ, quality 1911, XD, BHP, etc.). I like the 9mm for maximum capacity and adequate terminal performance; additionally a mid-size pistol like the G19 gives you excellent concealment if you need to avoid the appearance of being armed.

.22LR – I’m really torn between the choice of a pistol or a rifle. To be honest, most of my .22LR hunting has been inside 25 yards or so. My Browning Buckmark has been easily as effective as any .22LR rifle I’ve used at that range. With a red-dot sight, the pistol is very fast and accurate as well. If I was worried about ammo selection, I would most likely reconsider and choose my Marlin 981T; bolt action, tube magazine and Leopold scope…she’s really a tack-driver.

12 gauge shotgun – I’ve been all over the CONUS and most places have use of a shotgun. This isn’t the choice for packing long distance on foot, but with the right selection of ammo, the 12ga shotgun is a very versatile tool around the homestead. For me, it just makes sense. I’ve had turkey, geese, ducks, beaver, deer and signs of hog (haven’t seen or killed any in my immediate area) right around our home and small lake. Add plenty of small game such as squirrel, rabbit and dove; all can be hunted effectively with a shotgun. Of all my choices, I really like my old Mossberg 500 with the 18.5” barrel and 26” barrel (choked). For me, the shotgun isn’t a must have, but it’s very effective for my immediate area and I could put it to good use.

AR15 5.56mm Rifle – most of the deer in this area are not too big and I’ve killed a decent sized doe several years ago with a 55gr soft-tip bullet. Ranges have all been within 50 yards. For deer, hog and 2-legged vermin, the AR is the perfect choice for me. Add the fact that I’ve been using it for active duty for over 24-years; I’m pretty comfortable with that choice in my current location.

Your location, definition of “apocalypse”, level of experience and/or training will always be significant factors regarding your choices, needs and requirements. Still, it’s good mental exercise to figure out what you really need, would like or could make do with…

ROCK6
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:51:58 PM EST
My 4:

RRA/BCM AR
Remington 870 12 gauge
Ruger 10/22
S&W M&Pc with full size magazine and grip adapter

I chose the compact M&P over the full-size because I can shoot it just as well, and have the ability to conceal it easier if the need were to arise. It may not be a TEOTWAWKI style SHTF or even if it is there may come a time to conceal the fact you are armed. The compact lets me do that easier therefore I will be more likely to do so.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:00:22 PM EST
I like the list...

I still don't know what I would take if I had to bug out but I think (depending on the situation) I would take my 10/22 a bunch of mags, a couple bricks and my 1911 with a handful of mags and a couple boxes of ammo.

Bugging in I will use whatever fits my current need...
I have:
SU16 in 223... I consider it my "ranch" rifle.
pump action & single action 20G shotguns.
22lr in a few different flavors.
bolt action rifles in 308 and 30-06.
45 & 9mm... RIA 1911& Taurus PT709 Also have a 9mm revolver for reloads.

But If I have to sling a pack and head off It will most likely be a 10/22 and handgun of some sort... If I am running out of food and don't have much to take I may include a rossi youth matched pair- (Single shot 22lr and single shot 20G.) If I am bugging out I am running away and if I cant handle a confrontation with my 45 or 9 then its going to be over any ways. Would probably take the 9 due to weight concerns.

Six to one half a dozen the other?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:01:11 PM EST
I've got them all (bolt gun is .30-06 though)
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:11:01 PM EST
to start

10/22
357 revolver
remington 870 w/ short & hunting barrels
ak47

reasons
10-22, spare parts available for storage. quality hi cap mags available. 22 is cost effective for years worth of stockpiling.

357 revolver. ammo availability doubles. versatility. reloading cheaply, cast bullets

remington 870. great hunting shotgun. yes you can hunt with a 22. but, 12 gauge is very common, so you might be able to come across a lot of ammo. for close combat it is very effective. low over penetration

ak47. less maintenance then an ar. and if you want an ar, you'll be able to pick one up. ammo is cheaper to stock pile, drum mags might be handy for suppressive fire.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:29:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 10:28:48 AM EST by rallykid]
My 4'ish kinda
We went with the AK platform. Both the Mrs and I are as comfortable with it as an AR and we can stock the same amount of ammo for 1/2 the price of 5.56. We each have one

We both have Savage 64 .22 rifles because they are cheap, they work and I have had one of them for more years than I care to remember since it was the first rifle I bought for myself. They also suppress well.

We both have 9mm Glocks, mine is a 19 and hers is a 26

Mossberg 500 for shotgun but only 1 in the house. Didn't see the need for 1 for each of us and put the money for the second one into a 22/45 as everyone should have a .22 pistol suppressed.

So I guess it is not really my 4 but my 3 with similar setups for 2 people and the option for he 4th leaves us flexibility. We work as a team, train together, shoot together, fish together and hunt together we can be more flexible on the option for the 4th and cover any shortcomings.

We have 2 boys so 2 more AK's are on the list, another 19 and 26 and we will be adding 2 more 64's. we will see which way they want to go for their 4th
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:38:32 PM EST
If I could only keep 4 of my guns they would be
1. Ruger 10/22 (good for small game and will certainly keep a gang bangers head down)
2. Mossberg Mariner 12ga (Not the best for hunting but will do in a pinch and good for defense)
3. AR in 300BLK (more power for hunting but still has all the attributes of my 5.56)
4. Para P-12 .45ACP (All my favorite things about a 1911 and 12+1 capacity)

I thought about my 92 and Vaquero in 45LC, both are stainless for low maintenance and super reliable. With "Ruger Only" loads they can take down anything, from deer to bear, in the lower 48 within range.
The reason I didn't include a bolt action is because I don't own one yet. A .308 is on my short list.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:42:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:48:29 PM EST by manowar669]
Originally Posted By rusteerooster:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
I'll go to three, lose the 12ga. Shotguns really give you nothing that you can't do better another way. Ammo is heavy and bulky, low capacity and limited range. As a survival weapon, that's not a good resume. Why a shotgun? There is no reason for it.

A spool of tightline will get you more birds and waterfowl you can shake a stick at, and you don't even have to be there. As a combat weapon, they're crap.

I'll say AR15, Glock 9mm, .22lr (10/22 probably).



I expect you have never seen combat....might ought to do your homework before making statements like above.



Why? Scenarios? Shotguns are crap in combat, as a survival weapon, even less so. Nobody carries them in TAOS except the US. I will say that the shotgun is the ONE gun that will do it all, although poorly. So, if that's what you have, well, it will work, with limitations.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:50:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:53:05 PM EST by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By rusteerooster:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
I'll go to three, lose the 12ga. Shotguns really give you nothing that you can't do better another way. Ammo is heavy and bulky, low capacity and limited range. As a survival weapon, that's not a good resume. Why a shotgun? There is no reason for it.

A spool of tightline will get you more birds and waterfowl you can shake a stick at, and you don't even have to be there. As a combat weapon, they're crap.

I'll say AR15, Glock 9mm, .22lr (10/22 probably).



I expect you have never seen combat....might ought to do your homework before making statements like above.



Why? Scenarios? Shotguns are crap in combat, as a survival weapon, even less so. Nobody carries them in TAOS except the US. I will say that the shotgun is the ONE gun that will do it all, although poorly. So, if that's what you have, well, it will work, with limitations.



Stop digging, you're getting close to China...
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:51:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By rusteerooster:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
I'll go to three, lose the 12ga. Shotguns really give you nothing that you can't do better another way. Ammo is heavy and bulky, low capacity and limited range. As a survival weapon, that's not a good resume. Why a shotgun? There is no reason for it.

A spool of tightline will get you more birds and waterfowl you can shake a stick at, and you don't even have to be there. As a combat weapon, they're crap.

I'll say AR15, Glock 9mm, .22lr (10/22 probably).



I expect you have never seen combat....might ought to do your homework before making statements like above.



Why? Scenarios? Shotguns are crap in combat, as a survival weapon, even less so. Nobody carries them in TAOS except the US. I will say that the shotgun is the ONE gun that will do it all, although poorly. So, if that's what you have, well, it will work, with limitations.



Stop digging before you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:55:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Stop digging, you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?



You keep digging a deeper hole. How many doors have you kicked in? We wouldn't use them if they didn't serve a purpose.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:10:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Stop digging, you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?



You keep digging a deeper hole. How many doors have you kicked in? We wouldn't use them if they didn't serve a purpose.


Teach me what the shotgun can do that other platforms can't.. I'm curious. I have shotguns, and they're versatile, but I could easily live without their usefulness. I "like" shotguns, but if I'm gonna minimize what I need to keep around, the shotgun is the first to go.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:15:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:23:03 PM EST
"Every toolbox needs a hammer" remember?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:23:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 4:25:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 4:29:26 AM EST by Powerkicker]
Albion Short Sword to start. Machetes are for third world savages.



Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:23:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
Albion Short Sword to start. Machetes are for third world savages.

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq126/Powerkicker/AlbionShortSword.jpg



This thread is about firearms. Please start your own thread about cutlery.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:29:27 AM EST
*checks his gun safe*

Remington 870 - CHECK
Remington 700 in .308 - CHECK
AK47 - CHECK
1911 - CHECK
Ruger 10/22 takedown - CHECK

*looks to left of gun safe*

Mechete - CHECK

What? Mechetes are not for the Zombie Apocalypse anymore. Rad Roaches are not gonna kill themselves.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:43:46 AM EST
Kibby,

Shotgun...Sort of want only if free
Bolt action 308...Only if free...Mostly Do Not Want
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:57:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kibby:
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
Albion Short Sword to start. Machetes are for third world savages.

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq126/Powerkicker/AlbionShortSword.jpg



This thread is about firearms. Please start your own thread about cutlery.


Thread title does say "weapons". Just sayin.

AR-15 w/ suppressor
.22 pistol w/ suppressor
machete
fire

Weight, weight and weight. These are three important factors for me.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:07:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Stop digging, you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?



You keep digging a deeper hole. How many doors have you kicked in? We wouldn't use them if they didn't serve a purpose.


Teach me what the shotgun can do that other platforms can't.. I'm curious. I have shotguns, and they're versatile, but I could easily live without their usefulness. I "like" shotguns, but if I'm gonna minimize what I need to keep around, the shotgun is the first to go.



I'll say this - and I mean this with the utmost respect - you seem a little blind to the usefulness of a shotgun.

Here's a short list that comes up right off the top o' my head:

1. Close-quarters Combat. Excellent choice. Highly maneuverable, and boombastic knockdown power. Typical 00 loads have nine 30-caliber pellets. That tears up quite a hole.

2. Pants-crapping persona. A shotgun has a high intimidation factor. I got this guilty fantasy of what a carjacker's face would look like with my SBS/SxS Fox pushed into his face. Some people claim that the intimidation factor generated by the sound of someone jacking a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun will make a crook piss his pants.

3. B&E. A concentrated blast from a shotgun will devastate any typical household hinge or doorlock.

4. Versatility. The same shotgun you used to smoke a few zombies the night before can procure a few rabbits or ducks the next day. Barrels are interchangeable on the Mossbergs and Remingtons. You could breech a door in the morning, swap into a rifled barrel, and kill a moose right before dark using a saboted slug.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones important to me. There really is no other gun available that can do so much. Like has already been mentioned, every toolbox needs a hammer. The survival toolkit should be well-rounded. I started this thread with the intent to get people to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the different weapons, but how a core selection of them can act as a comprehensive "kit" that covers all the basics.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:08:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 6:17:25 AM EST by 762bodydropper]
This is what I plan around, and how I use it.
9mm pistol, Hi cap mags. To get you back to your rifle, and whatever happens in between...
Service rifle of your choice For the nasty stuff; as well as hunting.
.22 Cal rifle. Magazine fed. As a support role and small game hunting.
.22 cal semi auto pistol. To compliment the .22 rifle. and for finishing the job.
While I do have more, That's my main load out.

Why don't I have a 12 gauge and or a scoped large caliber rifle in there?
Scoped rifle. The area I live in I do not need nor do I really have to room to make long shots on large game, and if there are people coming at me that are far enough away that I need to make a long distance scoped shot.....I can be gone before they get there. Survival is the best medicine, and gun fights are generally contrary to the survival mission. 200 yards is about as far as I can reach around here, and I can do that with my Ar.

12 gauge shotgun, to me they are too big and bulky for my mission/a.o. The only use I would have for them are turkey/bird/small game hunting, and I can accomplish that with my scoped .22. which is lighter, faster, cleaner and quieter.

As far as a .22 for in a support role, basically this is in a 2 man situation. One takes position and lays down slow suppressive fire with it, (something shotguns aren't very good for) while the other maneuvers with the service rifle to dispatch the enemy. Sure it's only a .22, but not many people are immune to their ammo, so its enough to keep their head down. And you can stockpile and carry ALOT more ammo.

Also, If I were in a long term survival situation, where I had to pick and choose only 4 guns, then I probably cant store deer meat for as long as it would take to consume it. So I would be more interested in small to medium sized game, Something I can process with a pocket knife, and consume in a day or so.


Eta: In my opinion, In a survival situation, shotguns are good only as hunting tools. They are too big and slow for combat use unless your in a team situation, where someone can watch your back while you spend more time reloading than you do shooting bad guys. If there is one bad gun coming at you, then a shottie is a great choice, as long as you get him with the first shot. And pumping a round in a shotgun, is only gonna let people know your there and to be ready for you. If I'm in the living room and hear someone on the other side of the door or wall jack a shotgun. I'm sending a stream of bullets through the wall...In a life or death situation, theres no time for posturing and intimidation, Silence is golden!
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:09:36 AM EST
22lr - Sig 522

AK-47

Saiga 12 ( converted )

HK USP 45
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:13:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 6:14:46 AM EST by Kibby]
Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
*checks his gun safe*

Remington 870 - CHECK
Remington 700 in .308 - CHECK
AK47 - CHECK
1911 - CHECK
Ruger 10/22 takedown - CHECK

*looks to left of gun safe*

Mechete - CHECK

What? Mechetes are not for the Zombie Apocalypse anymore. Rad Roaches are not gonna kill themselves.


I'm giving you a point for working in the Fallout reference.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:41:53 AM EST
Good looking list...

Mine is similar and after reviewing all of my guns I am the most proficient with the following

I like a bolt action Marlin 22 over my tactical solutions 10/22 except it weights more, but will consume lass ammo.

My Winchester 308 with a McWoody stock and a mark 4 on it. It's a laser and feel comfortable trying shots out past 300yards

Shotguns are my weakness in life and love a o/u with great wood, but would go for one of the 870s for a long haul

Handgun would be would a glock 17 or one of the 1911s I cannot rule which one I like to carry more
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:52:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kibby:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Stop digging, you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?



You keep digging a deeper hole. How many doors have you kicked in? We wouldn't use them if they didn't serve a purpose.


Teach me what the shotgun can do that other platforms can't.. I'm curious. I have shotguns, and they're versatile, but I could easily live without their usefulness. I "like" shotguns, but if I'm gonna minimize what I need to keep around, the shotgun is the first to go.



I'll say this - and I mean this with the utmost respect - you seem a little blind to the usefulness of a shotgun.

Here's a short list that comes up right off the top o' my head:

1. Close-quarters Combat. Excellent choice. Highly maneuverable, and boombastic knockdown power. Typical 00 loads have nine 30-caliber pelletsthese are little 30 cal spheres(balls). That tears up quite a hole3 pellets of 12 may strike the target...where did the other 9 pellets go?. I can pull the trigger three times in the time it takes to fire and cycle a slide action shotgun

2. Pants-crapping persona. A shotgun has a high intimidation factor. I got this guilty fantasy of what a carjacker's face would look like with my SBS/SxS FoxKibby this is not a slide action shotgun pushed into his face. Some people claim that the intimidation factor generated by the sound of someone jacking a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun will make a crook piss his pants. Releasing the bolt of an AR has a rather authoritative mechanical sound too.

3. B&E. A concentrated blast from a shotgun will devastate any typical household hinge or doorlock. Ok but I have not wanted to break a door.

4. Versatility. The same shotgun you used to smoke a few zombies the night before can procure a few rabbits or ducks the next day. Barrels are interchangeable on the Mossbergs and Remingtons. You could breech a door in the morning, swap into a rifled barrel, and kill a moose right before dark using a saboted slug. I would not need to change barrels on the AR...Maybe not even need to change magazines.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones important to me. There really is no other gun available that can do so much. Like has already been mentioned, every toolbox needs a hammer. The survival toolkit should be well-rounded. I started this thread with the intent to get people to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the different weapons, but how a core selection of them can act as a comprehensive "kit" that covers all the basics.

Until you drug door busting AR>shotgun


Link Posted: 11/17/2012 7:07:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:

Originally Posted By Kibby:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Stop digging, you're getting close to China...


What does that even mean?



You keep digging a deeper hole. How many doors have you kicked in? We wouldn't use them if they didn't serve a purpose.


Teach me what the shotgun can do that other platforms can't.. I'm curious. I have shotguns, and they're versatile, but I could easily live without their usefulness. I "like" shotguns, but if I'm gonna minimize what I need to keep around, the shotgun is the first to go.



I'll say this - and I mean this with the utmost respect - you seem a little blind to the usefulness of a shotgun.

Here's a short list that comes up right off the top o' my head:

1. Close-quarters Combat. Excellent choice. Highly maneuverable, and boombastic knockdown power. Typical 00 loads have nine 30-caliber pelletsthese are little 30 cal spheres(balls). That tears up quite a hole3 pellets of 12 may strike the target...where did the other 9 pellets go?. I can pull the trigger three times in the time it takes to fire and cycle a slide action shotgun

2. Pants-crapping persona. A shotgun has a high intimidation factor. I got this guilty fantasy of what a carjacker's face would look like with my SBS/SxS FoxKibby this is not a slide action shotgun pushed into his face. Some people claim that the intimidation factor generated by the sound of someone jacking a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun will make a crook piss his pants. Releasing the bolt of an AR has a rather authoritative mechanical sound too.

3. B&E. A concentrated blast from a shotgun will devastate any typical household hinge or doorlock. Ok but I have not wanted to break a door.

4. Versatility. The same shotgun you used to smoke a few zombies the night before can procure a few rabbits or ducks the next day. Barrels are interchangeable on the Mossbergs and Remingtons. You could breech a door in the morning, swap into a rifled barrel, and kill a moose right before dark using a saboted slug. I would not need to change barrels on the AR...Maybe not even need to change magazines.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones important to me. There really is no other gun available that can do so much. Like has already been mentioned, every toolbox needs a hammer. The survival toolkit should be well-rounded. I started this thread with the intent to get people to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the different weapons, but how a core selection of them can act as a comprehensive "kit" that covers all the basics.

Until you drug door busting AR>shotgun




*sigh*

I'm no expert. Never claimed I was. Despite the nit-picking and derailments, I sincerely hope someone has benefited from my essay. I'm finding myself more and more frequently annoyed that we cant keep the GD stuff out of SF, and keep it congenial, friendly, and technical. Kibby out.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 8:51:26 AM EST
Easy to carch ducks with a fishing pole & 50Y of line - bread or corn for baitline- noose on the end.. quiet & never run out of shells...
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By billy8221969:
I personally think the shot gun is over rated. It can do what a .22 rifle can do with small game and it can do what a high power rifle can on larger game and for defense, so if you plan on having only one gun, it has it's merit. On the other hand, It does neither as well as those two rifles and it's ammo is way too bulky. I say that if you happen to own a shotgun, go ahead and stock ammo for it, but if you are building a survival arsenal the shotgun is not a necessity.


What if you're down to waterfowl for sustenance?


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