Hey all, there has been a noted rise in yute vandalism in my subdivision this year and Monday night my neighbor's landscaping was damaged by them.  We're considering adding surveillance cameras to the exterior of our home to capture any incidents.  It would need to have low-light/IR capability, be able to provide reasonable quality imaging, small, and motion sensor activated.  Range to the street is 15yds tops in front and the back is not the problem area.  Price is also a concern.  Stills or video are options, so yes a game camera is a possibility.

Thanks for any suggestions
--Vic

How many cameras do you want?  Color or black and white?  Do you want it accessable by the internet?

ETA:  Budget?

B/W is fine.  4 camera max.  Budget under $500.  Non-internet is fine.

Go to Sam's.  They have(or at least had) a CCTV system that included 4 cameras(I think 1 was an interior camera), a monitor and a vcr, plus all the cables to install.  They were power-over-ethernet cameras that plugged directly into the back of the monitor.  Also allowed audio monitoring.  We got a couple sets about a year ago for our office and yard.  IIRC they were about 475-500 a set and extra cameras were also available.  They work ok, but are not as water proof as you would expect.  If you place them under the overhangs on your house, so they stay drier, then would probable work better.  

edit for bad spelling

Quoted: How many cameras do you want?  Color or black and white?  Do you want it accessable by the internet? ETA:  Budget?

How about if you wanted some that would record to a hard drive in the desktop and view on the monitor? (internet access is a nice to have but no requirement)

BW or Color? Color unless they are considerbaly more money.

Budget? <$1000 (for cameras, cabling, power, software if needed)

THANKS

They have systems at Sam's that would work for a $500 dollar budget and a $1,000 budget.  That seems to be the best option.  I don't know about the quality of the systems though.

I bought my system at GadSpot, and the system is great.

I bought the entire system from them excluding the 500gb HDD and Network Cable.
Their HDD prices are too expensive.

I only installed two cameras, but I can add two more as easy as run wires, mount cameras and plug them in to DVR.

The entire system cost about $500.00.

I can Email you pictures or video to give you an idea of quality.

The unit saves video only when there is motion, and writes over the oldest video when HDD is full.

Fantastic system!

Bill

Be sure to check out SuperCircuits.  They have been in this business for years now and all of their products are very high quality.  And most of their prices cannot be beat.  They have a lot of cameras under $100 and even a few decent ones under $50.  Check them out.  You will not be disappointed.

I bought those cheep ones at wal mart for  $ 44.00 a set  they have been out side for 4 years now and still work great.

do any of you have experience with wireless connections to a harddrive?M

Don't do wireless... not reliable enough, even the high-dollar stuff.

You can do the system-in-a-box deal if you want... it will be basic, and might serve your needs adequately.

Analog versus IP cameras:

Analog is fine, and you have a very wide selection of cameras from which to choose.  Bullet cameras are the cheapest (many quality bullet cams can be had for <100 bucks), run anywhere from 380 to 560 TVL (TV lines... analogous to resolution, more is better), and can be had with IR-cut filters, and built-in IR LEDs.  They're also pretty dang weatherproof.

The IR light that built-in-IR bullet cams throw is limited... here is an example:





Those are pics taken from the exact same camera (day/night color bullet cam with built-in IR).  One was taken in the afternoon, and one in the dead of night.  You can see the difference... the night picture is granier, and the pool of light that the built-in IR throws isn't very large.  You can greatly expand the performance of such cameras by adding in a few IR illuminators (like cameras, they come in all shapes and sizes, and run from 50-500 dollars, depending on distance, power consumption, wavelength, and weather-resistance).

IP-based cameras are another alternative.  They can be viewed over the internet, and can be programmed to FTP images to a remote server, email account, or other off-site storage.  They're the "wave of the future," but camera selection is more limited, and you'll pay more.

For storage of images, some cameras store images on looped tape... that's the classic convenience-store-in-tha-hood setup.  You can also have images stored on a hard drive, or off-site... but be prepared to buy LARGE hard drives.  You can find online storage calculators that will give you an idea of the storage requirements you'll have with a given frame-rate and picture-size.  MJPEG (motion JPEG) eats up lots of storage space, but gives very high-quality images.  MPEG-4 is a compression format that uses much less space, but the images are not as good.

Everything is a trade-off.

What would you guys suggest for indoor monitoring of my BOL, which unfortunately sits empty more than I would like?  I'd like to be able to monitor this over the internet.

Thanks!

Michael

Quoted: What would you guys suggest for indoor monitoring of my BOL, which unfortunately sits empty more than I would like?  I'd like to be able to monitor this over the internet. Thanks! Michael

I have 2 cameras that I installed at my home.
Panasonic BL-131A (WIRELESS) & BL-C111A (WIRED).
Both are rated indoor only. I have one set up in my living room (wired) and one in my well pumphouse (wireless) pointed out a window to watch my yard.

Both were easy to setup and are easy to control over the net.

Quoted: What would you guys suggest for indoor monitoring of my BOL, which unfortunately sits empty more than I would like?  I'd like to be able to monitor this over the internet. Thanks! Michael

How large a location are we talking?  If we're talking about a single camera, that's incredibly easy.

You're going to need a couple of things: power, connectivity, and either a stand-alone IP-based camera, or an analog camera and a video server.

Power and connectivity are self-explanatory, except that I'd suggest some form of UPS with your power (so your connection doesn't get knocked out by power surges brought on by thunderstorms, etc).  You'll also want a broadband connection.  Streaming video takes a lot of bandwidth, and you should only check on it from time to time (or use motion detection to send you interesting bits).  Constantly streaming video from your BOL will rapidly run you up against the bandwidth caps that all cable/DSL providers have.  If your BOL is far enough out there, you may need a satellite broadband service (Starband, or similar service).  Those services aren't cheap.

As for the camera itself, you might consider an internet-ready IP-based camera.  You literally just plug it into your network and it's ready to go... has its own webserver internally and everything (with web-based configuration).  I've had good luck with Axis network cameras... linux-based, and you can pick up older models on Ebay for pretty reasonable money.  



Alternatively, you can get standard analog cameras and plug them into a camera server.  This is essentially what you're doing with the PC-and-Webcam method, except the camera server is usually an embedded OS and far more reliable than the PC-and-Webcam.  Analog cameras come in all shapes, sizes, and weather-resistances (far greater selection than IP-based cameras)... a good selection can be viewed here.  As for camera servers, here's the result of an Ebay search for "camera server."

What you're wanting to do is pretty easy... you just need all the connections and the stuff to do it.  Any alarm company that does camera could do this in their sleep if you don't feel up to it.

ETA:  I have one of these video servers from axis (pic below).  It works well, and does all sorts of interesting stuff.  It does video motion detection (you can select areas in the picture for the camera to pay attention to, as well as set sensitivities, thresholds, etc).  It will email you pictures, alert you if cameras are disabled... it will even power a relay (for a strobe or buzzer).  It can also interface with a home alarm system, and FTP pictures to another location for off-site storage.

Thoughts on this combo?
x10 camera system

Quoted: Thoughts on this combo? x10 camera system

Wireless?

Avoid.

ETA: I should specify which wireless to avoid.  The cheapo wireless is the X-10 stuff.  That's different from 802.11-based wireless IP cameras.  Plenty of companies make wireless IP-based cameras (that interface with your home computer network's wireless access point)... those are a cut above the X-10 stuff, but MUCH more expensive.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thoughts on this combo? x10 camera system Wireless? Avoid. Another reason to aviod wireless is most are not encrypted and it is quite easy to sit and watch whats on your cameras with something like this: radioworld.ca/images/product_images/swscan/swscan_icom/scanners_and_receivers/ic-r3_l.jpg You would be amazed at what you can see driving around town with one of these. Best find yet? A strip club using wireless to monitor the "private" rooms.

What is that and where can I find it?  

You really want hard-wired cameras... either ethernet-based IP cameras, or standard analog cameras connected to a camera server.

I'd avoid the cheapo wireless.

Quoted: Icom IC-R3 around $375-400 new most places.

Too bad that thing's broadcast TV reception will "go dark" in Feb, 2009 when they switch to digital broadcast.  

I also noticed ICOM no longer lists that on their web site.  Is ICOM working to bring out an equivalent unit that will work with digital TV, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Icom IC-R3 around $375-400 new most places. Too bad that thing's broadcast TV reception will "go dark" in Feb, 2009 when they switch to digital broadcast.   I also noticed ICOM no longer lists that on their web site.  Is ICOM working to bring out an equivalent unit that will work with digital TV, too.

The eham guys didn't seem to be too impressed with the unit... apparently its sensitivity is VERY poor for certain bands, even with external antennas.

OK, what about this one?
x10 wired cam

Quoted: Quoted: What would you guys suggest for indoor monitoring of my BOL, which unfortunately sits empty more than I would like?  I'd like to be able to monitor this over the internet. Thanks! Michael How large a location are we talking?  If we're talking about a single camera, that's incredibly easy. You're going to need a couple of things: power, connectivity, and either a stand-alone IP-based camera, or an analog camera and a video server. Power and connectivity are self-explanatory, except that I'd suggest some form of UPS with your power (so your connection doesn't get knocked out by power surges brought on by thunderstorms, etc).  You'll also want a broadband connection.  Streaming video takes a lot of bandwidth, and you should only check on it from time to time (or use motion detection to send you interesting bits).  Constantly streaming video from your BOL will rapidly run you up against the bandwidth caps that all cable/DSL providers have.  If you're BOL is far enough out there, you may need a satellite broadband service (Starband, or similar service).  Those services aren't cheap. As for the camera itself, you might consider an internet-ready IP-based camera.  You literally just plug it into your network and it's ready to go... has its own webserver internally and everything (with web-based configuration).  I've had good luck with Axis network cameras... linux-based, and you can pick up older models on Ebay for pretty reasonable money.   www.axis.com/cache/imagegen/0b7f6486446abf1e66402aace6c7e8ef.jpg Alternatively, you can get standard analog cameras and plug them into a camera server.  This is essentially what you're doing with the PC-and-Webcam method, except the camera server is usually an embedded OS and far more reliable than the PC-and-Webcam.  Analog cameras come in all shapes, sizes, and weather-resistances (far greater selection than IP-based cameras)... a good selection can be viewed here.  As for camera servers, here's the result of an Ebay search for "camera server." What you're wanting to do is pretty easy... you just need all the connections and the stuff to do it.  Any alarm company that does camera could do this in their sleep if you don't feel up to it. ETA:  I have one of these video servers from axis (pic below).  It works well, and does all sorts of interesting stuff.  It does video motion detection (you can select areas in the picture for the camera to pay attention to, as well as set sensitivities, thresholds, etc).  It will email you pictures, alert you if cameras are disabled... it will even power a relay (for a strobe or buzzer).  It can also interface with a home alarm system, and FTP pictures to another location for off-site storage. www.axis.com/cache/imagegen/3701aec17c9e0accb826583fc71deac9.jpg

Can that Axis 206 just be plugged into my wireless hub for my DSL modem, or is there some other switchgear or processor required between it and the ISP?

Quoted: Can that Axis 206 just be plugged into my wireless hub for my DSL modem, or is there some other switchgear or processor required between it and the ISP?

You only need a power cable (to the camera) and a piece of cat5.

The axis IP cameras (or other-branded IP cameras... you don't have to go with axis) can be plugged straight into your ethernet hub/switch.  If you've got a wireless router with some open ethernet jacks, you connect it with a piece of cat5 and that's it for the wiring portion of the exercise.  

Like many IP cameras, the axis camera runs an embedded linux OS that contains its own webserver.  This means you use Firefox (you're not still using IE, are you?) or other browser to connect to the camera at whatever IP address your DHCP server/router/cable modem/ISP gave it (usually 192.168.x.x for a standard router, but could be 68.x.x.x if you connect it straight to your cable modem), and you can configure the whole thing over the web... VERY NICE for remote management and adjustment.  You can require passwords, enable guest accounts and/or anonymous access, enable motion detection, emailing of images... the options are only limited by the type/brand of IP camera you purchase.

You only require "some other switchgear or processor" if you buy a bunch of standard analog cameras.  If you go analog, you need something (a "camera server" or PC with a camera-server card) to take the video, digitize it, and make it available to your network.  Camera servers are not large... they can be as small as a paperback romance novel.  They can take the video input of however many cameras (usually 1-4) and do with it exactly what the IP camera does (motion detection, email of images, FTP off-site, etc).

IP cameras are the "wave of the future," because they do everything internally that a good camera server does... all you have to do is hook up the Cat5, and you don't need a server.  Some even do power-over-ethernet (PoE), allowing you to dispense with the power cable.  However, they have a few major disadvantages... namely increased cost, and the lack of selection of cameras.  Analog has been around forever, and there are literally a zillion different cameras out there for analog, including Pan-Tilt-Zoom, bullet cams, pinholes, lipstick cams, explosion-proof cams, armored cams, and hidden-in-anything-you-want cams.

Hope this helps.

So my house is 36 feet across at the front.  The porch is in the center of the front wall, but I can't see it from my upstairs window.  I cannot see the utility room or the carport without leaving concealment.  

The utility room and carport have me thinking bullet camera as I have dusk to dawn floods at the end driveway end of carport.  The utility room is small and could take bullet camera.  

But what about the front yard?  It is 50-60 feet to the street.  Without seeing the layout of the front of my house what would you recommend?  How much additional IR illumination would I need?  

Quoted: So my house is 36 feet across at the front.  The porch is in the center of the front wall, but I can't see it from my upstairs window.  I cannot see the utility room or the carport without leaving concealment.   The utility room and carport have me thinking bullet camera as I have dusk to dawn floods at the end driveway end of carport.  The utility room is small and could take bullet camera.   But what about the front yard?  It is 50-60 feet to the street.  Without seeing the layout of the front of my house what would you recommend?  How much additional IR illumination would I need?

It depends on how much ambient light you have out there.  Any camera will work better with more light, and if you've got several streetlights or floodlights, you may not need IR illuminators at all.  All IR-equipped cameras must be mounted outside, and not inside any sort of window, else the IR reflection from the glass will blind the camera.

Also, if you have a couple of bright light sources out there at night, consider getting a camera with "wide dynamic range," as that will help compensate for backlighting (and keep those bright light sources from jacking up the contrast, effectively darkening the rest of your image)

As for IR, an average lower-cost bullet camera with IR LEDs will throw that pool of IR light about 30 feet, give or take.  Some bullet cameras pack higher-powered LEDs that will throw it a lot further, but they're usually larger, with bigger-around camera housings.  The nighttime pic I posted further up-thread demonstrates about a 30-foot throw, and the camera is about as big around as a soda can.  

The "pool of light" can be increased substantially with Illuminators, which come in all shapes and sizes.  I'm currently experimenting with a couple of different kinds.  I bought a couple from super-circuits (they're OK, but weaker than I thought they'd be), and I have a couple of Ebay Hong-Kong specials coming that should be here any day.  You can really spend crazy money on illuminators if you're not careful... some go for 500-1000$ dollars each.  (I have no way to judge their relative performance)

Note... "weaker" is subjective, and refers strictly to the view from the day-night camera.  Looking out into that pitch-black-to-the-naked-eye area with NVGs is an entirely different story... even those "weaker" illuminators literally turn night into day.

For indoor use, has anyone used/seen a D-Link DCS-3420 in action?  I've been searching around recently and it seems to fit my bill.

It's wireless (not cheapo), 540 TVL color CCD, motion detection, 6mm F2.0 0.5LUX, comes with D-Link's software to record to your HD - so you don't have to have a dedicated DVR and supports up to 16 cams (add as you need to), and sells in the $300-350 range.

I want wireless so I can put one in my garage, one in the living room, one in the bedroom, etc. without having to run wires all over the house.  I don't have an attic or crawlspace between the upper and lower levels that is accessible.  I have a computer that I can dedicate to this that has a 300GB HD in already, with nothing on it.  I like that I can buy one, make sure it does the job, and then add more as I go.

Quoted: For indoor use, has anyone used/seen a D-Link DCS-3420 in action?  I've been searching around recently and it seems to fit my bill. It's wireless (not cheapo), 540 TVL color CCD, motion detection, 6mm F2.0 0.5LUX, comes with D-Link's software to record to your HD - so you don't have to have a dedicated DVR and supports up to 16 cams (add as you need to), and sells in the $300-350 range. I want wireless so I can put one in my garage, one in the living room, one in the bedroom, etc. without having to run wires all over the house.  I don't have an attic or crawlspace between the upper and lower levels that is accessible.  I have a computer that I can dedicate to this that has a 300GB HD in already, with nothing on it.  I like that I can buy one, make sure it does the job, and then add more as I go.

I'd say you're definitely better off going with WIFI cameras over the X-10 stuff.  At least Wifi has encryption, and error correction.  That's a decent resolution too (540TVL).  For full-dark use, you'll absolutely require an IR illuminator.

Quoted:] I'd say you're definitely better off going with WIFI cameras over the X-10 stuff.  At least Wifi has encryption, and error correction.  That's a decent resolution too (540TVL).  For full-dark use, you'll absolutely require an IR illuminator.

It's not X-10.  That camera is 2.4ghz Wireless G, IP camera with encryption and MAC address restrictions.

Quoted: Quoted:] I'd say you're definitely better off going with WIFI cameras over the X-10 stuff.  At least Wifi has encryption, and error correction.  That's a decent resolution too (540TVL).  For full-dark use, you'll absolutely require an IR illuminator. It's not X-10.  That camera is 2.4ghz Wireless G, IP camera with encryption and MAC address restrictions.

Didn't I say that?  

Quoted: Quoted: So my house is 36 feet across at the front.  The porch is in the center of the front wall, but I can't see it from my upstairs window.  I cannot see the utility room or the carport without leaving concealment.   The utility room and carport have me thinking bullet camera as I have dusk to dawn floods at the end driveway end of carport.  The utility room is small and could take bullet camera.   But what about the front yard?  It is 50-60 feet to the street.  Without seeing the layout of the front of my house what would you recommend?  How much additional IR illumination would I need?   It depends on how much ambient light you have out there.  Any camera will work better with more light, and if you've got several streetlights or floodlights, you may not need IR illuminators at all.  All IR-equipped cameras must be mounted outside, and not inside any sort of window, else the IR reflection from the glass will blind the camera. Also, if you have a couple of bright light sources out there at night, consider getting a camera with "wide dynamic range," as that will help compensate for backlighting (and keep those bright light sources from jacking up the contrast, effectively darkening the rest of your image) As for IR, an average lower-cost bullet camera with IR LEDs will throw that pool of IR light about 30 feet, give or take.  Some bullet cameras pack higher-powered LEDs that will throw it a lot further, but they're usually larger, with bigger-around camera housings.  The nighttime pic I posted further up-thread demonstrates about a 30-foot throw, and the camera is about as big around as a soda can.   The "pool of light" can be increased substantially with Illuminators, which come in all shapes and sizes.  I'm currently experimenting with a couple of different kinds.  I bought a couple from super-circuits (they're OK, but weaker than I thought they'd be), and I have a couple of Ebay Hong-Kong specials coming that should be here any day.  You can really spend crazy money on illuminators if you're not careful... some go for 500-1000$ dollars each.  (I have no way to judge their relative performance) Note... "weaker" is subjective, and refers strictly to the view from the day-night camera.  Looking out into that pitch-black-to-the-naked-eye area with NVGs is an entirely different story... even those "weaker" illuminators literally turn night into day.

Thanks, food for thought.  I really want to add some camera coverage to the front of the house as it is my biggest blind spot.  None of the outside is really visible from upstairs though.  

I want to make a "security purchase" with part of the next tax return.

So I was thinking about the kits that include cameras, dvr and cables and hook it up to the primary TV in the house. When running the cables, do most just drill through the house and run them through the basement and then back up to the DVR & TV?

Quoted: www.supercircuits.com I've bought about ten cameras from them over the years. You'll want black and white without a doubt for it's better resolution and night vision capability. I'd rather stop the kids rather than catch them afterward. Motion sensing lights and a nice "beware of the dog" sign on the gate would work for me. That said I have four cameras around my home to cover the doors, gates, and other concerns.

I use some of their illuminators.

They work, and reasonably priced.

Quoted: do any of you have experience with wireless connections to a harddrive?M

I am  experimenting with that right now. I'm using fairly cheap (<$150) IP cameras, one wired, one wireless.

They report to a program called Active Webcam by Pysoft. This is a VERY capable program! And you can d/l it for free; they remove the splash screen if you buy the program.

Active Webcamis programmable for a variety of things:  

• select the part of the screen that is motion sensitive;
  select the frame rate;
  select a program to activate when motion is detected;
  select a number of Email programs to use when motion is detected;
  select to view the camera(s) over the Internet;

and a host of other items I haven't even played with yet!

Again, it is FREE, with a 'splash screen' on your viewer until you pay for the program.

Bump

I actually did a real-world test with a handful of IR illuminators, ranging from a common super-circuits puck-light, to a mega-bucks RayTec IR illuminator (you get what you pay for... that thing is a light cannon!).

The tests were done with two different cameras, each one tested with five different illuminators.  One set of tests was done with a no-name mid-grade 420TVL day/night armored dome camera, and the other set with an armored brand-name dome that retails for about 3X+ the cost of the first camera.

The reviews are posted in the NV forum.  Here are the links:

Here is the link to part one of the test.

Here is the link to part two of the test.

I'm happy to answer any questions about those lights.  Even some of the "weaker" ones have their uses, and I have several models from that review in use right now.  The only one that I haven't deployed yet is the square flood-light-looking Ebay model.

http://www.meetrovio.com/

Broken link.

Me want too.

This is what I use:

Panasonic BB-HCM371A.  I would post a picture if I knew how....

I've been using 2 of them for about 3 years.  They work VERY well.  They are POE (power over ethernet) and don't need a power cable as long as you use a cat5 nework cable.  You can also use them wirelessly (that is how I use mine).  You can access the camera in real-time from any internet connection.  I routinely view my cameras over my iphone.  I also have mine set to take a picture when motion is detected in the driveway, and I have the picture e-mailed to me at work (complete with a date and time stamp).  They work well in the dark as long as there is SOME light.  I realize the price may be a little more than you want (around $600) but I believe they are worth it.

Oh yeah, did I mention that I use mine wirelessly and they work GREAT??

I would recommend that you google this product as well as other panasonic models.  Just make sure you get an outdoor model if you plan on using the camera outdoors.

Panasonic makes some very high-quality cameras.  I've got a few of their vandal-proof domes deployed, and they're very nice.



I'm using the WVCW484S cameras in several locations, and it's tough to find a better fixed dome.  They're not cheap, but the quality is definitely there.