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Posted: 6/28/2015 6:33:09 PM EDT
Surprised this hasn't come up yet on the survival forum.

It looks like the Greek collapse may just finally be here. I am surprised it took this long. Through the years we have talked about this very moment and now the party may be getting started.

They will have a bank Holiday tomorrow and then impose government limits on withdrawals. Followed by a vote next Sunday.

So for those of you with more knowledge about world economics what are some possible outcomes and ramifications for us here in the US?

Is this the first domino or just business as usual?
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 7:00:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Business as usual @ this point.  The Grexit has already been priced into the market.  Everyone knew it would happen sooner or later, particularly w/ Tsirpas as PM.

Now, if Portugal falls, then Ireland would be next, then Spain, then Italy.  Ain't nobody got enough cash to bail out Italy, so that could well trigger an international recession.  But the pain the Greeks are going to suffer in their Grexit will be a horrific lesson for the voters & politicians in Portugal & Spain.

This is just the worst possible scenario for a Grexit - unplanned.  The Euros already in circulation in Greece (under the mattresses) are essentially the only currency available in Greece.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 7:07:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Well the Dow futures are down almost 300 points right now. But of course we all know the market is manipulated to some point so who knows reality.

But this is really my concern, what if this event does finally scare the market back into reality land.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 7:12:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  Well the Dow futures are down almost 300 points right now. But of course we all know the market is manipulated to some point so who knows reality.

But this is really my concern, what if this event does finally scare the market back into reality land.
View Quote


Nope.  The concern is if the event doesn't scare Ireland & Portugal to stay the course - which it will.  Peak cheap Greek labor, however, as Greeks seek work all over Europe.  Peak robbery as well, as @ the moment there's no way to send that cash they earn home electronically.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 7:37:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Greeks needed to get their cash out of their Greek bank accounts as Euros before that is illegal.

As a guess, Euros will be seized and account holders will be paid off in "New Drachmas" or something.

Probably too late for millions of people by now.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 8:23:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Euro is now falling...but I guess that can be expected.

I think the Asian markets are now open so we shall see what they are going to do.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 10:08:48 PM EDT
[#6]
It will definitely be interesting to see reactions and posturing across the board. Once Greece flops, creates a new debased currency and gets a ton of financial aid to boot there will be one or two other countries that will follow. Then we may see some more interesting movement.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 10:31:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Anyone there with half a brain already had not only thier moeny out of the bank, but also in a bank in another country. It really isnt that hard to open an account in other European nations for EU members. The thing is, it takes time, you cant do it the week everything is going to hell.
Billions have left Greek banks these last few months so only the more gullible got caught by this "corralito".
Still sucks though.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:14:23 PM EDT
[#8]
And we now see the outcome of socialism.  

It sucks for them but they demanded it.  Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.  They refused to accept financial reforms and basically demanded that the EU save them from themselves.  

I'm having a hard time finding sympathy.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:51:32 PM EDT
[#9]
I predict our market will drop to 10,500 tomorrow.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:04:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Greece has the largest army in europe. The tanks roll on Bulgaria (closes euro country) tomorrow.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:48:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  Greece has the largest army in europe. The tanks roll on Bulgaria (closes euro country) tomorrow.
View Quote


Lol.  The country that lied their way into the Euro, falsifying what cash they had on hand & their obligations going forward, has a fully functional army & can invade their neighbors?  Gimme a break.  They can't wipe their own asses.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:50:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  It will definitely be interesting to see reactions and posturing across the board. Once Greece flops, creates a new debased currency and gets a ton of financial aid to boot there will be one or two other countries that will follow. Then we may see some more interesting movement.
View Quote


My bet is that Portugal & Ireland will have their banks propped up, their voters will see what the Greeks are going to endure, and elect decidedly fiscally conservative governments, painful though it may be.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:58:25 AM EDT
[#13]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I predict our market will drop to 10,500 tomorrow.
View Quote




 
I predict it won't. Trading would be halted before that happened.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:53:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And we now see the outcome of socialism.  

It sucks for them but they demanded it.  Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.  They refused to accept financial reforms and basically demanded that the EU save them from themselves.  

I'm having a hard time finding sympathy.
View Quote




Do you have a hard time for finding sympathy for us?


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:11:10 AM EDT
[#15]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do you have a hard time for finding sympathy for us?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:


And we now see the outcome of socialism.  





It sucks for them but they demanded it.  Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.  They refused to accept financial reforms and basically demanded that the EU save them from themselves.  





I'm having a hard time finding sympathy.

Do you have a hard time for finding sympathy for us?
I have no sympathy for the collective us.


 



ETA: I have sympathy for those who have seen this coming and have been whining, shouting, yelling for it to stop but everybody else wanted their new car and flatscreen.




I have sympathy for those who are too young to vote.




I have sympathy for those who are young, and have only 1-2 voting cycles under their belt.




Basically, I am pissed off at everyone 40 years old and older . Thanks for the shit I get to pay for, enjoy the free ride on me and my children and unborn grandchildren. Hope it is worth it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:20:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Well that is irrational.  Anyone over 40? Really?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:33:18 AM EDT
[#17]
On a related and unrelated note, I saw this article earlier today- Puerto Rico’s governor says island’s debts are ‘not payable’

I'm thinking this will have a larger impact on the U.S. as well as our markets than Greece will.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:44:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
On a related and unrelated note, I saw this article earlier today- Puerto Rico’s governor says island’s debts are ‘not payable’

I'm thinking this will have a larger impact on the U.S. as well as our markets than Greece will.
View Quote

Saw that too. I figure Puerto Rico is just a tiny blip though.

Down 142 right now. Who knows it will probably be a gain by then end of the day. But we all know that one day it is going to happen the house of cards cant stand eternal.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:12:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Ummm, I don't remember the "free ride" that I got. Must be getting old, I guess. All I remember is working hard and paying taxes since I was 15.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:32:03 AM EDT
[#20]
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.





We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.







Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.







I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.







All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.


 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:43:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ummm, I don't remember the "free ride" that I got. Must be getting old, I guess. All I remember is working hard and paying taxes since I was 15.
View Quote

Social engineering 101 my friend. If you're going to steal from people, make sure someone else takes the fall. "Those dirty lazy (Greeks) lived beyond their means!" works pretty well these days.
The Greek bailout money is actually a bank bailout. The banks get bailed out AND they cash in the CDS. The so called troika(IMF, European Central Bank and European Commission) is loaning money to Greece so that it can pay them, basically its " paying themselves." 60%of the bailout money goes straight out of Greece to foreing institutions. Most of what stays in Greece goes to banks operating within Greece, most of which arent Greek either. In reality, as little as 10% of the bailout money goes to public spending.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/where-does-greek-bailout-money-go
The mass media in Europe works hard to portray Greeks as lazy welfare people that got into this trouble not because they got screwed by Goldman Sachs and other evil NWO sons of bches, but because they take money from poor innocent hedge funds.  Greek workers actually put in longer hours than anyone else in Europe — 42.2 per week, compared to just 35.6 in Germany.http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours
This clip here shows the reality of working in Greece, awfully similar to the working conditions in Argentina post 2001. It would be funny if it didnt actually show the harsh reality so accurately.

FerFAL
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:47:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Saw that too. I figure Puerto Rico is just a tiny blip though.

Down 142 right now. Who knows it will probably be a gain by then end of the day. But we all know that one day it is going to happen the house of cards cant stand eternal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
On a related and unrelated note, I saw this article earlier today- Puerto Rico’s governor says island’s debts are ‘not payable’

I'm thinking this will have a larger impact on the U.S. as well as our markets than Greece will.

Saw that too. I figure Puerto Rico is just a tiny blip though.

Down 142 right now. Who knows it will probably be a gain by then end of the day. But we all know that one day it is going to happen the house of cards cant stand eternal.

The stock market is indicative of nothing. Rich people (hedge funds) just throwing money around.

Take a better look at debts of the public, personal  debts. We all know about the $155 TRillion the country is indebted. How about all the house notes, school notes, and car notes? How about the lack of savings? How about the unemployment rate? The "qualifications" for entry level jobs. The lack of skilled labor. The amount of crap we fill our lives with and how disposable everything is. We live in a great age where our waste would be exalted as wondrous wealth to other countries... or even ourselves 60 years ago. Yet we chuck it into landfills. We're a nation of spoiled brats. I would know, I'm one of them.

No, those stocks mean nothing to the average joe. It's everything else that precariously balances upon one another. I say the housing market will bust, yet again, because people are stupid. Myself included.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:05:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 
View Quote




Generally speaking, the same could be said by anyone under 70 years old as well.  Socialist institutions and programs have been around since the 1930's.
Those in their 70's and older are reaping the rewards of everyone younger through free money through Social Security checks. By now they have surely outlived what they paid into the system in their careers. It's only gotten worse with more free money programs since and the standard of living for most average wage earners has steadily decreased in the face of more "wealth redistribution to those who need it more than you do".  "Paying your fair share"  LOL

It's a shit sandwich for any decent wage earner and it's not going to get better, so strap in for the slow ride down for our children's lesser lifestyles.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:48:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The stock market is indicative of nothing. Rich people (hedge funds) just throwing money around.

Take a better look at debts of the public, personal  debts. We all know about the $155 TRillion the country is indebted. How about all the house notes, school notes, and car notes? How about the lack of savings? How about the unemployment rate? The "qualifications" for entry level jobs. The lack of skilled labor. The amount of crap we fill our lives with and how disposable everything is. We live in a great age where our waste would be exalted as wondrous wealth to other countries... or even ourselves 60 years ago. Yet we chuck it into landfills. We're a nation of spoiled brats. I would know, I'm one of them.

No, those stocks mean nothing to the average joe. It's everything else that precariously balances upon one another. I say the housing market will bust, yet again, because people are stupid. Myself included.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On a related and unrelated note, I saw this article earlier today- Puerto Rico’s governor says island’s debts are ‘not payable’

I'm thinking this will have a larger impact on the U.S. as well as our markets than Greece will.

Saw that too. I figure Puerto Rico is just a tiny blip though.

Down 142 right now. Who knows it will probably be a gain by then end of the day. But we all know that one day it is going to happen the house of cards cant stand eternal.

The stock market is indicative of nothing. Rich people (hedge funds) just throwing money around.

Take a better look at debts of the public, personal  debts. We all know about the $155 TRillion the country is indebted. How about all the house notes, school notes, and car notes? How about the lack of savings? How about the unemployment rate? The "qualifications" for entry level jobs. The lack of skilled labor. The amount of crap we fill our lives with and how disposable everything is. We live in a great age where our waste would be exalted as wondrous wealth to other countries... or even ourselves 60 years ago. Yet we chuck it into landfills. We're a nation of spoiled brats. I would know, I'm one of them.

No, those stocks mean nothing to the average joe. It's everything else that precariously balances upon one another. I say the housing market will bust, yet again, because people are stupid. Myself included.

You are absolutely correct. The reason I worry about stock markets is that it is one thing the general public is actually aware of, if even marginally so. Even if they have no stocks, a big stock market plunge will set the average Joe into a panic. Plus all the news outlets suddenly shift from "recovery" to doom and gloom instantly.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:20:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 
View Quote




"All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab."


Nope, if you mean financially, ---NO WAY it will EVER be paid off.

Absolutely Impossible.


Now, if you mean in pain and suffering living like slaves in a Totalitarian society, sort of a cross between _____ and _____...

Why sure...




Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:25:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Drudge Headline to a news item link-


"FLOOD: FEDS PREDICT ANOTHER 127,000 ILLEGALS THIS YEAR "


I told ya all YEARS ago here we're going to be dishenfranchised with what all was going on...

Most all were too busy watching the idiot screen to pay any attention...

And now, for all practical purposes -we have been.

We don't really have much of a say in the National ELECTIONS any more.  


Say bye bye to your guns, in the not to distant future...





Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:35:31 PM EDT
[#27]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Drudge Headline to a news item link-





"FLOOD: FEDS PREDICT ANOTHER 127,000 ILLEGALS THIS YEAR "





I told ya all YEARS ago here we're going to be dishenfranchised with what all was going on...



Most all were too busy watching the idiot screen to pay any attention...



And now, for all practical purposes -we have been.



We don't really have much of a say in the National ELECTIONS any more.  





Say bye bye to your guns, in the not to distant future...
View Quote
Now your just being cynical

 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:37:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well that is irrational.  Anyone over 40? Really?
View Quote




HAHAHA!!!

My shit don't stink...




Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:46:31 PM EDT
[#29]
This country has pretty much reached the point ---sorta like

That point this Congressman feared for Guam





This Nation is about to capsize, far more quickly than I expected.


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:35:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Drudge Headline to a news item link-


"FLOOD: FEDS PREDICT ANOTHER 127,000 ILLEGALS THIS YEAR "


I told ya all YEARS ago here we're going to be dishenfranchised with what all was going on...

Most all were too busy watching the idiot screen to pay any attention...

And now, for all practical purposes -we have been.

We don't really have much of a say in the National ELECTIONS any more.  


Say bye bye to your guns, in the not to distant future...


View Quote


And that is just it in a nutshell. I haven't been around as long as many here but in my time lurking and then being a participating member on the survival forum I have seen the forum get hot and bothered for awhile and now it has calmed a bit.

But many of the things we were worried about happening didn't happen for a year, then two and so on. And now we so sick of hearing it that we have kind of glossed it over. But now one of those things we worried about is coming to pass. Greece is going down. Our country is more divided than ever. Our government is really pushing that folks like us are the bad guys and we are being set up to take the fall.

All I can say to my brethren on here is that it has been a long and weary road and we have miles to go yet, but stay vigilant, I fear that big things are starting to quietly stir beneath us.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:32:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Just to pass it along... the market closed down 350 today.

Further the Greek people are freaking out which is an outstanding lesson for us here and what could happen.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:16:43 PM EDT
[#32]
We don't have anyone that could give reports as to what is actually going on do we?  Maybe a good website like Ferfal's to keep up with the "man on the street" so to speak?

Doc
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 6:19:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 
View Quote


People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:46:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Drudge is linking to an article now regarding a Supreme Court ruling today.


"SUPREMES STRIKE AGAIN: STATES CAN'T FORCE VOTERS TO PROVE CITIZENSHIP"


Remember what I've been talking abt regarding Disenfranchisement????

All these years...


[How many even know what it means, I expect most in SF do...


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:04:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 


People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.



Yes, it counts. Those same people are benefitting disproportionately compared to what they "put into the system" from taxes as well.  It's the "Other People's Money" scheme that has been going on for decades in many ways.  People that are paying attention wonder how long can this go on and what will be the effect on future generations.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:09:46 PM EDT
[#36]
As the contagion spreads through Europe, the portable wealth will flow here.

High end real estate in NY and the Dow will go up.

The economy will go down. Rich richer, poor poorer.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:01:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Yes, it counts. Those same people are benefitting disproportionately compared to what they "put into the system" from taxes as well.  It's the "Other People's Money" scheme that has been going on for decades in many ways.  People that are paying attention wonder how long can this go on and what will be the effect on future generations.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 


People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.



Yes, it counts. Those same people are benefitting disproportionately compared to what they "put into the system" from taxes as well.  It's the "Other People's Money" scheme that has been going on for decades in many ways.  People that are paying attention wonder how long can this go on and what will be the effect on future generations.


So if sometime in the future a tax rate is increased then people who paid for more years at the older rate are "benefitting disproportionately" compared to someone paying the new rate? If that's what you believe then pretty much everyone,if they live long enough,is going to be in the bad group as taxes are going to continue to be raised as well as new taxes being enacted until there's no more to tax.
I have no children but I'm being taxed for what they say is 25 years to pay for a new high school with air conditioning and computers in most of the rooms...the high school that I went to in the 70s was built in the 30s and we had no air conditioning or computers.There's a different angle on"benefitting disproportionately".
The highway that runs north to south through here has been a work in progress for many years...being widened to four lane all the way to the first large city to the south about 120 miles.
It's been going on for 30 years or so. They'll widen it for a few miles then work will stop for 2 or 3 years then when they've accumulated more money they'll do a few more miles. I will probably live long enough to see it completed and be able to drive all the way on the four lane highway that my taxes helped pay for but there will be young beginning drivers that will start out driving on the divided four lane highway that they did not pay for. But it's the older folks that are benefitting disproportionately. Sure it is.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:09:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Ponzi schemes aka 'musical chairs' always disfavors the last people standing.

It's how it works.

Chris
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:21:25 AM EDT
[#39]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So if sometime in the future a tax rate is increased then people who paid for more years at the older rate are "benefitting disproportionately" compared to someone paying the new rate? If that's what you believe then pretty much everyone,if they live long enough,is going to be in the bad group as taxes are going to continue to be raised as well as new taxes being enacted until there's no more to tax.


I have no children but I'm being taxed for what they say is 25 years to pay for a new high school with air conditioning and computers in most of the rooms...the high school that I went to in the 70s was built in the 30s and we had no air conditioning or computers.There's a different angle on"benefitting disproportionately".


The highway that runs north to south through here has been a work in progress for many years...being widened to four lane all the way to the first large city to the south about 120 miles.


It's been going on for 30 years or so. They'll widen it for a few miles then work will stop for 2 or 3 years then when they've accumulated more money they'll do a few more miles. I will probably live long enough to see it completed and be able to drive all the way on the four lane highway that my taxes helped pay for but there will be young beginning drivers that will start out driving on the divided four lane highway that they did not pay for. But it's the older folks that are benefitting disproportionately. Sure it is.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:




Quoted:


its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.





We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.
Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.
I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.
All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.


 






People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.



Yes, it counts. Those same people are benefitting disproportionately compared to what they "put into the system" from taxes as well.  It's the "Other People's Money" scheme that has been going on for decades in many ways.  People that are paying attention wonder how long can this go on and what will be the effect on future generations.






So if sometime in the future a tax rate is increased then people who paid for more years at the older rate are "benefitting disproportionately" compared to someone paying the new rate? If that's what you believe then pretty much everyone,if they live long enough,is going to be in the bad group as taxes are going to continue to be raised as well as new taxes being enacted until there's no more to tax.


I have no children but I'm being taxed for what they say is 25 years to pay for a new high school with air conditioning and computers in most of the rooms...the high school that I went to in the 70s was built in the 30s and we had no air conditioning or computers.There's a different angle on"benefitting disproportionately".


The highway that runs north to south through here has been a work in progress for many years...being widened to four lane all the way to the first large city to the south about 120 miles.


It's been going on for 30 years or so. They'll widen it for a few miles then work will stop for 2 or 3 years then when they've accumulated more money they'll do a few more miles. I will probably live long enough to see it completed and be able to drive all the way on the four lane highway that my taxes helped pay for but there will be young beginning drivers that will start out driving on the divided four lane highway that they did not pay for. But it's the older folks that are benefitting disproportionately. Sure it is.
I'll do you one better than no kids in school: I pay property taxes for the public school AND pay for private school and homeschooling material (isn't cheap).


 



ETA: And you and I BOTH know that roads and schools isn't what brought us 93T in debt. Its all the socialist pork spending (and a massively bloated welfare system).
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:40:17 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:

ETA: And you and I BOTH know that roads and schools isn't what brought us 93T in debt. Its all the socialist pork spending (and a massively bloated welfare system).
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And the liberals would object and say it was our over-sized military spending
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 7:15:37 AM EDT
[#41]
To answer OP’s question- nothing will happen to us.

It is both the first domino and business as usual. Countries default. It is different because it’s an EU member and they are tied together in ways sovereign countries are not. The biggest distinction being the inability to print money- they actually have to answer to their creditors. Even so, Greece is a very small economic contributor to world trade. Even when they default, life goes on uninterrupted for us.

This is an excellent opportunity to refresh your mind on what happens when governments finally have to pay the bills they rack up. It’s always the same reaction; look up inflation (Greece would print Euros if they could but they can’t), price and wage and rent controls, banking holidays, gold turn-in, nationalization of “necessary” industries, etc from FDR.

The United States Federal Reserve is quite honest when it comes to the question: “What will you do if the economy is bad?” Print money! They openly tell us they will print as much as needed, as if you can somehow print money into prosperity. Are you ready to spend 91.6% of your paycheck on food as German citizens did during their money printing heyday as shown below?:
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:12:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted: The amount of crap we fill our lives with and how disposable everything is. We live in a great age where our waste would be exalted as wondrous wealth to other countries... or even ourselves 60 years ago. Yet we chuck it into landfills. We're a nation of spoiled brats. I would know, I'm one of them.
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This is full of truth and one of the many problems we face...  Who knows where we will end up, but a bit of prepping, saving, and getting out of debt as much as possible is about the only thing that makes sense.  Well that and enjoy time with your friends and family while things are still nice and civilized.

---

And to comment on a few other posts, Greece not being able to print their own money is exactly why they are falling so quick.  Falling quick could be considered a good thing depending on the situation.  We just keep printing more money, and because almost everything is credit card or electronic transfer the majority of people don't notice the ongoing inflation...  OR choose to ignore it.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:

And the liberals would object and say it was our over-sized military spending
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Quoted:
Quoted:

ETA: And you and I BOTH know that roads and schools isn't what brought us 93T in debt. Its all the socialist pork spending (and a massively bloated welfare system).

And the liberals would object and say it was our over-sized military spending


Arfcom. Get both.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:50:04 PM EDT
[#44]

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Quoted:





And the liberals would object and say it was our over-sized military spending
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Quoted:



Quoted:



ETA: And you and I BOTH know that roads and schools isn't what brought us 93T in debt. Its all the socialist pork spending (and a massively bloated welfare system).



And the liberals would object and say it was our over-sized military spending
Perhaps, but the Constitution charges the fed gov't to keep a military to protect the country from foreign threats. Didn't see Obamabux/Obamaphones and free this and that guaranteed as rights in the Bill of Rights. For that matter, federal schools and federal roads aren't in there either.....

 



Perhaps there is a lot of pork spending in the mil budget. Most likely there is, but I am not in the .mil, and I have not looked at their books so I reserve judgement. I DO want the strongest military on the planet, capable of squashing any country foolish enough to screw with us.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 3:00:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So if sometime in the future a tax rate is increased then people who paid for more years at the older rate are "benefitting disproportionately" compared to someone paying the new rate? If that's what you believe then pretty much everyone,if they live long enough,is going to be in the bad group as taxes are going to continue to be raised as well as new taxes being enacted until there's no more to tax.
I have no children but I'm being taxed for what they say is 25 years to pay for a new high school with air conditioning and computers in most of the rooms...the high school that I went to in the 70s was built in the 30s and we had no air conditioning or computers.There's a different angle on"benefitting disproportionately".
The highway that runs north to south through here has been a work in progress for many years...being widened to four lane all the way to the first large city to the south about 120 miles.
It's been going on for 30 years or so. They'll widen it for a few miles then work will stop for 2 or 3 years then when they've accumulated more money they'll do a few more miles. I will probably live long enough to see it completed and be able to drive all the way on the four lane highway that my taxes helped pay for but there will be young beginning drivers that will start out driving on the divided four lane highway that they did not pay for. But it's the older folks that are benefitting disproportionately. Sure it is.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
its not a personal thing, its a generational thing.

We have 18T in debt. Unfunded liabilities is at 96.9 TRILLION.


Obviously, goodies and perks were bought that could not be paid by that generation.


I didn't mean to turn this into a shit slinging contest, but in the context of the conversation, socialism was put in power under a generation prior to mine, but they passed the bill down. Now we are on a collision course with financial ruin, and the mere thought of even BALANCING the budget brings outcry.


All I know is my generation sure didn't vote for this crazy train, but me, my children, and my children's children are going to pay the tab.
 


People for many years before you paid for a heck of a lot of infrastructure that you've benefitted from but I guess that doesn't count.



Yes, it counts. Those same people are benefitting disproportionately compared to what they "put into the system" from taxes as well.  It's the "Other People's Money" scheme that has been going on for decades in many ways.  People that are paying attention wonder how long can this go on and what will be the effect on future generations.


So if sometime in the future a tax rate is increased then people who paid for more years at the older rate are "benefitting disproportionately" compared to someone paying the new rate? If that's what you believe then pretty much everyone,if they live long enough,is going to be in the bad group as taxes are going to continue to be raised as well as new taxes being enacted until there's no more to tax.
I have no children but I'm being taxed for what they say is 25 years to pay for a new high school with air conditioning and computers in most of the rooms...the high school that I went to in the 70s was built in the 30s and we had no air conditioning or computers.There's a different angle on"benefitting disproportionately".
The highway that runs north to south through here has been a work in progress for many years...being widened to four lane all the way to the first large city to the south about 120 miles.
It's been going on for 30 years or so. They'll widen it for a few miles then work will stop for 2 or 3 years then when they've accumulated more money they'll do a few more miles. I will probably live long enough to see it completed and be able to drive all the way on the four lane highway that my taxes helped pay for but there will be young beginning drivers that will start out driving on the divided four lane highway that they did not pay for. But it's the older folks that are benefitting disproportionately. Sure it is.




I'm not sure you understood the point.
Taxing future generations at a higher rate to pay for benefits that far exceed the monetary contribution of a previous generation that is only increasing in numbers(longevity) is a losing proposition mathematically and is unsustainable. (Social Security and Medical care) Put welfare for those unwilling to work on top of that and it just increases the problem. At what point will the increasing tax burden on the labor force be unpayable. That is the unknown.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 4:54:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm not sure you understood the point.
Taxing future generations at a higher rate to pay for benefits that far exceed the monetary contribution of a previous generation that is only increasing in numbers(longevity) is a losing proposition mathematically and is unsustainable. (Social Security and Medical care) Put welfare for those unwilling to work on top of that and it just increases the problem. At what point will the increasing tax burden on the labor force be unpayable. That is the unknown.
View Quote


There's a long way to go for Americans and most of the developed world. If you think about it, you can keep screwing people until they are living on 1/10th of what they are spending now. There's millions around the world that live on a dollar a day. Of course its not much of a life, but people are easily manipulated.
FerFAL
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