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Posted: 7/21/2008 6:29:11 AM EDT
just talked to my parents tonight and the they told me they are having problems with Coyotes coming really close to there home. When I say close I mean trying to attack there cat on the porch. My Mother had to go out and save the cat and the Coyotes was not even scared of her. Now they have always had Coyotes but its gotten worse since a large domestic dog has taken over the pack as the alpha. She is not the type to shoot the Coyotes and I live 5 hours away or I'd do it and they can't fence in the 5 acr lot. Can anyone give me any ideas on how they can take care of this problem?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:31:36 AM EDT
Take/Make the time to go eliminate the problem.

Get a rabbit call & a 12ga. and enjoy the evening.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:34:57 AM EDT
First thing since this isn't "SHTF" is check the local laws. I'd start with the county sheriff or whoever would most likely take a complaint call. Don't know if your state wildlife guys have any stake, either. You'd probably be fine under nuisance/dangerous animals regs but it'd be pretty messed up to get yourself screwed trying to help out.

This, of course, assumes you don't have a can....
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:35:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:40:11 AM EDT
Good oppurtunity to practice when the zombie invasion happens, practice shooting from behind cover, around doors, thru windows, maybe even try some sniper skills from the roof tops (you know when the UN invades. ) Make a sport of it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:48:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 8:03:02 AM EDT by _DR]
If you live in the country, you don't leave small pets outside without a solid chain link fence, at least not in rural Texas where I live. Unless of course you are tired of them.

I find it extremely unlikely that a pack of wild coyotes is going to accept a domestic or even a feral dog as an Alpha. I don't think there is a single recorded instance of that occuring. Even wild wolves, when reintroduced in close proximity to coyotes in Yellowstone, fought to the death with coyotes rather than intermixing.

You likely have a pack of stray dogs.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:47:43 AM EDT
I live in rural Northwestern Nevada and have a lot of coyotes here. First off, I agree...check local laws before shooting them. That said, also check into laws about defending your family and animals. Here someone as full right to protect there animals and family from an agreesive animal.

If laws are not a problem then I am sure that you can get someone to shoot them for your mother. May even find someone who will not charge her as long as they get to keep the kills. I go out here once in a while to a few local farms at the farmers request because they come up missing some goats or sheep. I don't know what terrain she has but I can honestly say that a shotgun will probably not work majority of the time because the yote will smell the hunter far away and will scatter before they get into range. I use a 22-250 and a predator call with great success.

If laws are a problem as far as firearm discharge then think about setting up some spring loaded traps.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:52:06 AM EDT
Trapping will net much better results. Find a local trapper to set up out there.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:59:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
If you live in the country, you don't leave small pets outside without a solid chain loink fence, at least not in rural Texas where I live. Unless of course you are tired of them.

I find it extremely unlikely that a pack of wild coyotes is going to accept a domestic or even a feral dog as an Alpha. I don't think there is a single recorded instance of that occuring. Even wild wolves, when reintroduced in close proximity to coyotes in Yellowstone, fought to the death with coyotes rather than intermixing.

You likely have a pack of stray dogs.



what is more likely is that a coyote bred w/ an abandoned domestic dog and produced offspring, that looks more domestic, that has become the alpha.

to the OP, other than shooting the coyote, your mom's other option is to get a large dog that will discourage the coyotes from coming so close. even better, for this problem, would be to get a breed that has a record of actually killing coyotes, e.g., great pyrenees (sp?) or anatolian shepherd.

your mom could also put up a 4' chain link fence immediately around the house, as well.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:05:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 8:07:43 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Cacinok:


your mom could also put up a 4' chain link fence immediately around the house, as well.


A chain link fence will also other inhibit other predators such as wild cats and nuisance animals like skunks and badgers that can still harm a small pet, not to mention rabid animals.

There have even been sightings of Cougars in Illinois.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:09:10 AM EDT
Simple....Keep the cat inside the house where it belongs instead of roaming around loose outside...Problem solved.....Todd
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:31:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
Simple....Keep the cat inside the house where it belongs instead of roaming around loose outside...Problem solved.....Todd

This is good, but does not address the issue of brazen coyotes stalking the neighborhood. When the supply of domesticated animals dries up, they will seek prey that is easy to snatch.
Southern California has got awful coyote problems because you can't, hunt, trap or poison them there. they have begun attacking small children right in their own yards. This is unacceptable! The critters need to know their place on the food chain.
To the OP:Absolutely, the first thing your mom should do is contact LEO and wildlife authorities and see if they can deal with the issue. In the mean time, don't take any unnecessary chances. Bring in domestic animals and their food (big time attractants), secure trash, and try to get the neighbors to do the same. If they are on board, then it will help to mitigate the problem. They should also be calling the same authorities for help.
If the problem continues, somebody is gonna have to step up and eliminate the dogs.
A friend of mine had a similar situation in California, the wildlife guy they sent couldn't ID the tracks left by the animal that was killing his ducks and chickens. ARfcommers guessed bobcat based on posted photos and within the week it was confirmed with one well placed shot from a ParaOrdnance P14LDA. The wildlife guy came out, checked it out and said, "yep, that's a bobcat." The end. Buried the carcass and life went on peacefully. Granted that was near 29palms, where there isn't the same elitist mentality. I know some other folks who have had reoccurring bear problems. Wildlife officials were useless, so they resorted to "Shoot, shovel, and shut up." I would never recommend that course of action, but if I were in your place, I wouldn't table the option.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:39:00 AM EDT
22.250
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:50:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 8:50:50 AM EDT by NORCAL_MNTN_MAN]
I live in CA where needless to say, we can't discharge firearms near our homes.

A nice heavy pull crossbow will make quick work of coyotes. He had a "problem" pack a couple years back that killed a few dogs and cats. We baited and called them in close and shot the ones that didn't eat the poisoned food with crossbows. All the neighbors heard were some 'yelps'. Make sure you get some legit hunting bolts, none of the cheesy smooth tipped ebay crap.

If you have one with a very heavy pull you can shoot them 2 at a time while they feed. Aim for the shoulder area for a lung/heart shot.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:04:50 AM EDT
Cats like outdoors too Mines out right now

Check local regulation, most do allow the “removal” of pest animals by any means needed. Check first because after you’re in jail it’s TOO late.
Contact local Wildlife dept. if you plan to spotlight or shoot any at night so they know what is happening
Local regulations in Texas allow Farmers to use Night vision on Deer destroying crops, at least the last time I check. MIght be a good excuse for NVG
Crossbow with Broadheads is nice quite way to take care of the problem.
One more time

CHECK LOCAL REGULATIONS JUST TO BE SURE

Or there are always the three S solution all ready posted.


Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:37:29 AM EDT
Lots of boxes of bakers chocolate dropped in the yard just before sunset. You don't even need to take it out of the package. Just check in the morning to see if any is left.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:06:17 AM EDT
If you go the crossbow route just know they are not very good out past 25-50 yards unless you plan on spending alot of money.

How much does a small box of subsonic .22 ammo cost again?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:12:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Granola:
If you go the crossbow route just know they are not very good out past 25-50 yards unless you plan on spending alot of money.

How much does a small box of subsonic .22 ammo cost again?


I eliminated some critters once when I was living in an apt. with a 22 Hornet. So I wouldnt piss off the neighbors I set a big stepladder up in the bedroom and covered it with quilts and sleeping bags and shot thru a small opening in the covers(and an open window). My wife was standing outside and couldnt hear the shot.

Around here you can shoot coyotes any time of the year!
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:13:24 AM EDT
Dig the holes ahead of time.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma1:
22.250
yup
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 12:07:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
Simple....Keep the cat inside the house where it belongs instead of roaming around loose outside...Problem solved.....Todd


And what do you propose we do about the rodent population while our cats are inside where "they belong"?

Cats in the house...

I don't think so. I get the house, they get the barn.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 12:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markl32:

Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
Simple....Keep the cat inside the house where it belongs instead of roaming around loose outside...Problem solved.....Todd


And what do you propose we do about the rodent population while our cats are inside where "they belong"?



coyotes eat the rodents [duh!]

I would want the cats inside to take care of any rodents that came into the house instead of having the rodents move inside into a "cat free zone"

Free roaming cats I believe it has been proven kill far more song birds and other benificial animals then they do rodents not to mention being a pain in the ass to the neighbors. I have neighbors that think thier cats should live free outside too. The things piss inside my car as well as shop and get in my trash. ....When they get into my fenced in yard my dog does enjoy eating them up though. ....Todd
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 1:58:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By Cacinok:


your mom could also put up a 4' chain link fence immediately around the house, as well.


A chain link fence will also other inhibit other predators such as wild cats and nuisance animals like skunks and badgers that can still harm a small pet, not to mention rabid animals.

There have even been sightings of Cougars in Illinois.


I know my parents use to have a animal that looked like a Bobcat near them!
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:00:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
Simple....Keep the cat inside the house where it belongs instead of roaming around loose outside...Problem solved.....Todd


Absolutely Correct.
Most states it is against the law to allow your pets to run at large.
Keep your damn cat off of my cars and your damn dog out of my garbage cans.

And yes, we have both---INDOORS.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:19:39 PM EDT
First of all, I don't know what type of area your parents live in nor do I know the local laws or LEO's in that area. So, I will be kinda broad in my suggestions.

1. You have received some good info already...check local laws, check with state wildlife agency for pest/nuisance /dangerous wildlife control, etc., local LEO's and if they will/willnot help.

2. Urban or country residence? If they are coming that close they have either almost exhausted or have already exhausted their normal food supply (Esp. this early in the year). They will loose their normal fear of humans and human sent to satisfy their hunger .

4. They must be dealt with, period. If not, they will eat every and all pets around. Have had a neighbor loose their Malalmute, Husky and Doberman to packs of coyotes.
when they pack up in the winter.

5. If it is legal or you have permission from your wildlife agency, take them out with whatever means is safe and effective at close range. I have literally taken them on my back porch with WMR in a Ruger Single Six.

6. Remind your mother that they will not discriminate and will take the cat, dog, etc. without thinking twice and if she wants to keep her pets alive, see # 4 above.

7. This may sound extreme, but you must remember that in the wildlife arena it is survival first and foremost and pets do not have that keen of a survival instinct.

Hope this helps

WileyE

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:30:36 PM EDT
Welcome WileECoyote




OP you might not want to destroy the head of any critters you have to deal with, just in case they need to be tested for rabies. Might want to use something other than a shotgun
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:36:53 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Welcome WileECoyote

ht. Might want to use something other than a shotgun


Thanks PA. I have been lurking for quite awhile. This post hit home, so I thought I'd chime in.

WileyE

PS: +1 on saving the head. Contact your local vet and get them involved, not only rabies, but distemper, EEE, parvo, etc..... (canine diseases)
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 3:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 2:14:10 PM EDT by SaltyDog]
GET A ROADRUNNER, THE ONE ON TV IS ALWAYS F*$#ING UP THAT COYOTE.

ETA: Added smiley per request.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:31:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SaltyDog:
GET A ROADRUNNER, THE ONE ON TV IS ALWAYS F*$#ING UP THAT COYOTE.


I'm reasonably sure you don't live in Stevens county. It helps to remember the smiley when you tell a joke, then you don't look foolish. Know what I mean Vern
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:46:14 PM EDT
Alpha male huh LOL

Oh i could write a book on people ignorantly calling a coyote they "saw" or "shot" or
"trapped" an alpha. Its laughable really.

Trapping is your answer but this won't be solved by an amatuer trapper or caller.

When coyotes get that brazen you have to do something as it won't go away and will only get worse.

I know some of the better coyote trappers in Illinois IM me and I'll hook you up with a phone number if he's not close enough he'll know someone that is.

Jeff

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:54:09 AM EDT
where she live? maybe someone here can take care of the problem.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:24:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mtrmble:
where she live? maybe someone here can take care of the problem.


Good point - someone in the HTF for your mom's state may appreciate the chance for a little target zombie eradication practice.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 6:35:19 AM EDT
I've found "heard" that a sponge soaked in bacon grease works wonders on reducing the coyote population.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 7:02:24 AM EDT
Got some pretty rough coyotes here.

One "challenged" my truck from the top of the cut grass pile off the end of the driveway, and when I took to the grass chasing him, he ran 50 feet into the corn (cut down stalks, November), turned, and dared me to chase him there too.

One growled at me when I stopped to listen to him approach through the corn. I growled back, this is MY land dickweed.

One night a pack had a party directly under my (first floor) bedroom window, yipping and growling for a good ten minutes. In the morning I found an 18 inch paw and forearm in near poerfect condition, except gnawed off at the shoulder, looked like a Golden Retriever.

Cats and kids aren't allowed outside without me, and I'm always armed. Living in the country means you learn to live in the country.

If the coyotes are really pushing you hard, you need to take steps to reduce their population, and look at the larger picture environmental conditions that allow such a large or aggressive population to survive over years. They like to den up in embankments, and irrigation ditches are often neglected to the point of providing enough cover for the coyotes to establish a large presence. Other factors which can lead to out of control coyoite populations are improper disposal of sick and dead herd animal carcasses. Herd animals are subject to some rampant disease pressures and sometimes one herder will dump the disease carrying carcasses quickly and unofficially, to get the threat away from the herd. With a food stockpile like this, you WILL have coyote problems.

Board of health can deal with this problem IF you can find the dumping area.

If you have their denning areas cleared, and any stock animal dumps cleaned up, then you're up against a natural population, feeding on natural prey, like the trillion or so mice that inhabit any cornfield. At that point, you'd have to alter the coyotes general behavior by presenting them with a significant threat over an extended periopd of time, until the learn to stay clear of the areas you don't want them taking over. You'll probably need to maintain a refresher course periodically over time to keep them in check.

Popping the odd stray here and there is pretty much a waste of your time. You need a plan, and that plan needs to be based on supply and demand as applied to unnaturally large and aggressive packs of coyotes. A good place to0 start would be to talk with the ;arge landowning neighbors for intel, and with animal control/law enforcement/board of health/ game and wildlife officials for background info.

It is possible, in the case of a significant problem, that local officials will run your "pogram" for you. Either way, they have data and info you need before you lay your plan.



Link Posted: 7/22/2008 10:03:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SaltyDog:
GET A ROADRUNNER, THE ONE ON TV IS ALWAYS F*$#ING UP THAT COYOTE.

ETA: Added smiley per request.


Im sorry but that isnt going to help you need a mark 4 tactical nuclear war head, only way to do it im afraid
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