Lots of folks have difficulty find the space for all their preps.  So heres a challenge for the saturday crew:  Find the wasted space!  Heres some spaces that I found to stuff preps, gear:

Car:
  Under front seats
  In with the spare tire under the trunk liner
  In with the jack in the jack stowage area
  (or in the case of my jeep, toss the bottle jack and install air pump )
  Pockets on rear of front seats  

Home
 In the rafters of the garage  (currently Mountain house, crisco, kero heater)
 In the crawl space (must be weatherproof)
 on the side of the house there was a run of grass/weeks about 4 ft wide between the house and the fence - so I put a row of water barrels and a locking tupperware storage closet for the gas.
 Under the bed (duh)
 The wife puts large jar type candles on top of the cabinets in the kitchen - not only decorative, but a LOT of candles easy to grab, but out of the way.

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So!  Find your wasted space... and post up what you find!  


 
 

Load your freezer with water bottles.  You'll have extra water on-hand and since you'll fill up the freezer it will safe energy.  As you fill your freezer with food you can pull them out and put them in as needed.  

I have taken 6" PVC and made water storage in the walls with it.

I took the PVC pipe and put an elbow at the bottom and top, and then a "T" fitting on the elbow, and add another pipe in the "T" fitting. I would do this inbetween each stud in a non supporting wall. The studs have to be 8" and 24" OC to work with 6" PVC pipe, but you get about 25 gallons of water stored inbetween the studs in your walls.

I drilled a small 1" hole at the top and bottom of the stud, and run 3/4" pipe to connect each of the 6" PVC pipe sets inbetween all the studs.

This is connected right in line with your water system, so you never need to rotate out any water.

It works best if you put this on a windowless finished wall along your outside basement wall, and drywall over it. You loose a couple inches of floor space that you will never notice, but you will always have rotated water stored. In a 7' tall, 17' long wall, you will have well over 200 gallons stored out of sight, but still being used everyday.

I have also added a small valve to shut off the main water, and another valve that can take a quick coupler to add pressure from our SCUBA tanks so the water can be had anywhere in the house.

This set up is more for an emergency like a well pump going out, than a SHTF event.

We did my brothers house, but used 4" PVC as he put it in between a supporting wall that was 16" OC. I don't like it because it holds only about 11-12 gallons per section.

Quoted: Quoted: **snip** OUTSTANDING!!! That's the kind of thinkin we need to have more of around here.

+potato

Quoted:  so I put a row of water barrels and a locking tupperware storage closet for the gas.

Excellent ideas guys...

Bionic, remember to somehow secure that shed so that burglars cannot use it as easy access to the 2nd floor windows, via your roof.  

Like: This

or

This

Quoted: . .  In the rafters of the garage  (currently Mountain house, crisco, kero heater)

Personally, I would hesitate to put food in the rafters in the garage.  I would feel better if it were in the house where it would be cooler.

Original Posted by:  1_BIG_BUNKER I have taken 6" PVC and made water storage in the walls with it. I took the PVC pipe and put an elbow at the bottom and top, and then a "T" fitting on the elbow, and add another pipe in the "T" fitting. I would do this inbetween each stud in a non supporting wall. The studs have to be 8" and 24" OC to work with 6" PVC pipe, but you get about 25 gallons of water stored inbetween the studs in your walls. I drilled a small 1" hole at the top and bottom of the stud, and run 3/4" pipe to connect each of the 6" PVC pipe sets inbetween all the studs. This is connected right in line with your water system, so you never need to rotate out any water. It works best if you put this on a windowless finished wall along your outside basement wall, and drywall over it. You loose a couple inches of floor space that you will never notice, but you will always have rotated water stored. In a 7' tall, 17' long wall, you will have well over 200 gallons stored out of sight, but still being used everyday. I have also added a small valve to shut off the main water, and another valve that can take a quick coupler to add pressure from our SCUBA tanks so the water can be had anywhere in the house. This set up is more for an emergency like a well pump going out, than a SHTF event. We did my brothers house, but used 4" PVC as he put it in between a supporting wall that was 16" OC. I don't like it because it holds only about 11-12 gallons per section.

Be very careful doing this.  most 4" and 6" PVC is marked NOT FOR PRESSURE.
If you have 6" PVC burst you will have a very large water problem

    Bunker that's a great idea.  By the way how much pressure are you thinking of putting inside your PVC water pipes just in case your city or town water goes down?  I'm betting since you have a SCUBA that you have a pressure regulator to tame down that 2,200 or 2,500 psi tank.  Your PVC set up is capable of handling 125 psi min to 200 psi max.  Correct me on this Bunker but from what I have read on your post that you did not put any drain down vavle or spigot at the bottom of each 6" pipes.  I would think that this would be a redundant way in case your SCUBA failed for some reason.

Quoted: Original Posted by:  1_BIG_BUNKER I have taken 6" PVC and made water storage in the walls with it. I took the PVC pipe and put an elbow at the bottom and top, and then a "T" fitting on the elbow, and add another pipe in the "T" fitting. I would do this inbetween each stud in a non supporting wall. The studs have to be 8" and 24" OC to work with 6" PVC pipe, but you get about 25 gallons of water stored inbetween the studs in your walls. I drilled a small 1" hole at the top and bottom of the stud, and run 3/4" pipe to connect each of the 6" PVC pipe sets inbetween all the studs. This is connected right in line with your water system, so you never need to rotate out any water. It works best if you put this on a windowless finished wall along your outside basement wall, and drywall over it. You loose a couple inches of floor space that you will never notice, but you will always have rotated water stored. In a 7' tall, 17' long wall, you will have well over 200 gallons stored out of sight, but still being used everyday. I have also added a small valve to shut off the main water, and another valve that can take a quick coupler to add pressure from our SCUBA tanks so the water can be had anywhere in the house. This set up is more for an emergency like a well pump going out, than a SHTF event. We did my brothers house, but used 4" PVC as he put it in between a supporting wall that was 16" OC. I don't like it because it holds only about 11-12 gallons per section. Be very careful doing this.  most 4" and 6" PVC is marked NOT FOR PRESSURE. If you have 6" PVC burst you will have a very large water problem

Well, I am running COLD water between 40-45 PSI in all my homes. So I am well under the MAX SAFE WORKING load of 106 PSI, and MINIMUM BURSTING PRESSURE of 560 PSI @ 73 degrees for schedule 40 pipe for the last 9 years.

PVC Ratings

I do understand your concerns as I had the same ones. I actually took a pipe and hooked my air compressor to it and filled it to 175 PSI as that is as high as it would go. Left it in the sun for a week and nothing happened. I then filled it with water and aired it up once more, and left it for a week. Nothing happened.



I have had bigger messes from leaking water cans, and a SQUARE stainless steel water heater I made from 3/16" plate. They are round for a reason. That thing broke after about a year and that was a mess. It to was running at 40 PSI when she said uncle and broke.

I did build another one out of 12" pipe and it is fine. The reason I built my own was because I wanted a small heater that had about 10 gallons of water in it, but also able to make alot of water hot fast. Kind of like an on demand, but with a small reserve in it. I had four 5500 watt heating elements in it, and each had it own thermostat. It was for a cabin I have with a gen set. Everyone could shower as long as they wanted, and recovery time was very fast so I did not need to run the gen set long, nor did I need a larger gen set to run a large on demand system. I had one and it was not that great for the power it needed, and the price they charged. Plus I just wanted to build one myself where there was more than two elements, and each operated independently of the others.

Quoted:     Bunker that's a great idea.  By the way how much pressure are you thinking of putting inside your PVC water pipes just in case your city or town water goes down?  I'm betting since you have a SCUBA that you have a pressure regulator to tame down that 2,200 or 2,500 psi tank.  Your PVC set up is capable of handling 125 psi min to 200 psi max.  Correct me on this Bunker but from what I have read on your post that you did not put any drain down vavle or spigot at the bottom of each 6" pipes.  I would think that this would be a redundant way in case your SCUBA failed for some reason.

Yes, it is regulated down.

I also do have a 3/4" drain to get water out if the tank fails or I need to drain the system. I use the BALL VALVE. I like these because they are much more durable, and fast opening if you need to dump alot of water fast into a drain. I also put in a PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE that will dump at 125 PSI incase a regulator fails. It dumps water into the drain as well. It was brand new, and I had it laying around and just used it. I know it is both a pressure relief and temp relief, but who cares. You can buy just a pressure relief for about $10 but all I seen was 75 PSI or 150 PSI.

I have had a few water messes and I have learned to take precautions. Plus I was getting tired of being called Tim the tool man.

Quoted: Quoted: . .  In the rafters of the garage  (currently Mountain house, crisco, kero heater) Personally, I would hesitate to put food in the rafters in the garage.  I would feel better if it were in the house where it would be cooler.

Good point.. currently I only put the freeze dried and crisco up there, and the rest of the food is in the pantry.  I should take a thermometer to the house rafters and compare the temps.  

Quoted: Quoted:  so I put a row of water barrels and a locking tupperware storage closet for the gas. Excellent ideas guys... Bionic, remember to somehow secure that shed so that burglars cannot use it as easy access to the 2nd floor windows, via your roof.   Like: This or This

Holy crap thats awesome!  razor strips for the edges.. that would keep the cat off the roof!  hehe..  I have a single level house, so no worries about the burglars, but that stuff looks awesome.  

Ya'll are coming up with some great ideas that I would have never have thought of.

The water storage has got me thinking. How much water could you store by using Pex plastic pipe? Since it is flexible, you could just use the smaller size and squish a roll of Pex in between the studs and have multiple coils in the same space right?

When using the PVC, what about making it "S" curve down the space instead of up and down, that way you could have just one valve at the bottom to get the water out, rather than having a valve at the bottom of each section of verticle pipe. I am sure it would take longer and probably cost more to buy that many 90 degree turns, but would mean less openings in the bottom of the walls to access the water if it was needed.

Just throwing out some ideas. Since I have an unfinished basement, this is something I want to further explore before I start the finish work. I was already thinking of doing what my brother did with a room in my mom's basement. It was partially finished, having exposed studs on one side with drywall on the side of the next room over. In the space ebtween the studs, he got a bunch of 1X3, cut it to length and shot them in the studs from either side to make small shelves to hold canned goods. It turned out pretty slick and freed up a ton of shelf space for bigger items. I will post a pic if I can get him to send me one.

Quoted: The water storage has got me thinking. How much water could you store by using Pex plastic pipe? Since it is flexible, you could just use the smaller size and squish a roll of Pex in between the studs and have multiple coils in the same space right? When using the PVC, what about making it "S" curve down the space instead of up and down, that way you could have just one valve at the bottom to get the water out, rather than having a valve at the bottom of each section of verticle pipe. I am sure it would take longer and probably cost more to buy that many 90 degree turns, but would mean less openings in the bottom of the walls to access the water if it was needed. Just throwing out some ideas. Since I have an unfinished basement, this is something I want to further explore before I start the finish work. I was already thinking of doing what my brother did with a room in my mom's basement. It was partially finished, having exposed studs on one side with drywall on the side of the next room over. In the space ebtween the studs, he got a bunch of 1X3, cut it to length and shot them in the studs from either side to make small shelves to hold canned goods. It turned out pretty slick and freed up a ton of shelf space for bigger items. I will post a pic if I can get him to send me one.

I am not sure I explained myself very clearly in my first post, but I did not think many would be that interested. So I decided to draw a picture, if you call it that, and post it as maybe that will help everyone.

Now at the top you have a shut off valve to stop water flow into all the pipes incase of a failure. I did not draw it in, but on the PIPE side of the valve is another valve that I can hook up the SCUBA tanks to and apply pressure to the system if my water pump fails. You have to put the SCUBA tank valve on the pipe side and close the main valve before you apply air to the system or you will just push air back down to where ever your water comes from. Closing this valve gives the water only one way to go, and that is into your home. This will buy us a few days until I can get someone out to replace my water pump. I have over 300 gallons stored this way, and we have hot water for showers and what ever else we need. We would take Navy showers at this time if need be, but at least we would have what we needed until the pump is fixed.

I chose the tanks to use over an air compressor, because you get oil in the air from an air compressor, so I would not use that. You would end up with oil in your house water system, and I doubt you would ever get it out completely short of replacing all the pipes and fixtures.

The other thing is to make sure your tanks can FULLY drain your system under pressure before they run out of air. It really does you no good to have 300 gallons of water and you are only able to get half of it out under pressure. There is 7.5 gallons per cubic foot, so keep that in mind as well when planning a system.

The pipes and valves are 1.5" and they go into 6" PVC. Now I know it shows 3 sets inbetween the very big dark lines which is the studs, but you can only fit 2 sets inbetween 24" OC studs. I just got carried away with drawing.

The pipes connecting the sets together that run between the studs, TOP and BOTTOM are 3". I forgot what they were are, and in my last post I said they were 3/4" I think, but that was what I used when I did my brothers home. Again, this is 2x8 studs and are not supporting anything but drywall, so cutting out a 3" hole for the pipe to run through is no big deal. It is easy to step down from 6" to 3" as well. I connect them at the top and bottom to make sure I had good flow through all the pipes and no water sitting up top for long periods of time. Water won't flow up to the top of a pipe in the next set of pipes. It will just flow along the bottom and go right to the house. Now if I connect the pipes at the top and bottom, this helps with water being trapped in an upper part of a pipe. You can connect as many sets like this as you want, but that last one to feed the house only comes out at the bottom.

I was actually kind of worried about water being trapped, and after about 18 months I took a water sample in from the house, and one from the outside faucet that is not in line with this system, and comes right off the pump from the ground. I had them tested and they were both the same, and tested fine.

Coming out at the right side bottom is the feed for the house. It is 1" pipe. I put it at the bottom, because if I need to use my SCUBA tanks, the air will rise and push the water down. If you put the pipe at the top, you will just push air out once the water level drops low enough to expose the house feed pipe.

Now on the bottom left is my 125 PSI pressure relief valve and another big valve to drain the system quickly into a drain.


This is not to scale as I am sure everyone, but Ray Charles can see. The pipe between the fittings is just enough to connect the fittings. The fittings are almost touching each other to make sure they fit inside the studs.




As far as using other pipe, here is what they store for water per size. If my math is correct.
1/2" is 1 gallon per 100 feet
3/4" is 2.3 gallons per 100 feet
1"    is 4.1 gallons per 100 feet
6"    is 10.28 gallons per 7 feet

I use 7 feet as that is about what a basement is give or take.

The math:

Radius squared times 3.14 times the pipe length in inches divided by 231, as 231 is how many cubic inches are in a gallon. That will give you how much water is in any pipe size.

So for 1/2" pipe we have:  .25 x .25 = .0625 x 3.14 = .19625 x 1200 = 235.5 / 231 = 1.02 gallons per 100 feet OR 1200" of 1/2" pipe.

So I guess you have to figure out what works for you. Half inch pipe should not be run in lengths longer than 300 feet as the resistance is getting high, and your pressure will drop. If you need longer runs, go with bigger pipe. I think 3/4" will go 500 feet, but I would have to look it up to make sure. Using pipe this way isn't worth it to me when you compare the cost and capacity of small pipe to a water can. But what do I know.

wow.. 1bigbunker, you win the prize for that one!   nice writeup, thanks!  

Google storage solutions and see if that helps generate some ideas.

For vehicles you can look underneath and maybe mount some boxes down low.  I know folks with jeeps can get creative since many run around without doors during the summer but they still need someplace secure to store stuff.  Some install lockboxes in the interior and some mount ammo cans on the frame and rig up a locking solution for it.  This varies by vehicle of course and these days you have to be careful about drilling most truck frames.  But I know when under my dodge there sure does seem to be a lot of empty space in places.

Depending on what you are storing you can often custom build shelves to store more stuff than what the generic metal shelving will hold.  I like the metal shelving but I also tend to build storage cubbies that sit on the shelves and keep things organised.

I also have somewhat learned to get away from keeping every single thing that might be useful.  I somewhat consider it to be like the 60lb bug out bag.  Keep the most important stuff and figure out if it is really worth keeping all the old pairs of worn out blue jeans or whatever.

I have a finished garage, so the rafters aren't much of an option, but have an idea worth sharing.  My garage has a shelf, about 5 feet wide, running above the garage door, the width of the entire garage.  Since its a 2 car garage its very "wide", I have about 4 to 5 feet of vertical clearance and its 5-6 feet deep.  To help support it, the side that is not connected to a wall has some chains supporting it from the ceiling.

The nice bonus of this kind of set up, is that when the garage door is up, you can't see the preps from outside, and most peopel won't even notice them from the inside.  I wouldn't store water up there, but other than that the framing on mine easily holds several hundred pounds.  Pics can be taken if I did not describe it clearly enough.

1_Big_Bunker thanks for the detailed reply. You obviously have done your research on this. After reading your most recent reply, I went back and re-read the original post. I did misunderstand some of the details. ( That's what happens when I try to learn in the middle of the night on a graveyard shift, lol ) Once you mentioned the increased resistance of using great lengths of small diameter pipe, some of the basic hydraulics teaching from my fire fighting past came back to me, and I realized the complications associated with doing it differently than you described. It is also amazing the exponentially increasing amount of water you get with the increase in pipe size. It is definitely something I will look into further when the time comes to work on my basement. Thanks again.

Quoted: Quoted: Be very careful doing this.  most 4" and 6" PVC is marked NOT FOR PRESSURE. If you have 6" PVC burst you will have a very large water problem Took the words right out of my mouth... Also, in the northern climates like Minnesota, North Dakota, etc...  That would be VERY BAD. Just need the heat to go out for a little while when TSHTF, the water freezes, and OMG will you have a MAJOR WATER PROBLEM!!!   Likewise, with the food in the rafters/attic.  I don't recommend storing the food where it will be susceptible to heat...  Likewise keeping it in the basement or under the stairs helps you out as well.  If you have a Tornado or some harsh winds blow your roof off...  WOOSH  there goes all your food supplies! Personally, in a basement area they're also more accessible as well.  YMMV.

Yes, if it freezes you will have a big problem, then again I think that goes for any water line. Also, the smaller line will freeze faster than a larger line. Look at water towers. I don't see anyone in a panic over them freezing and causing a major flood. They are outside, big and the water is always moving so it is very hard for them to freeze up.

If freezing is a problem, drain the system down. That's why I installed that drain valve. If you don't have back up heat or power, I do, but if you don't, you better turn on the water so it doesn't freeze or drain it. Those are your only two options, and the smaller the pipe the fast you better decide what you are going to do.

This has little to do with the size of the pipe as much as it does the temperature of the water. When a pipe freezes and breaks, it usually does not severed in two, and start dumping a 6" column of water everywhere when it warms up. It cracks like any other pipe regardless of size, and leaks water all over when the heat comes on.

Once a pipe is cracked and starts to leak, by the time you know it, it really does not matter what size the pipe is. I never heard anyone ask what size pipe it was when told they had a broken pipe leaking all over. It was always a "WHAT?.....AAAAW SHIT" response. This is why I installed that large drain valve, and shut off valve. I can open the drain and shut off the pressure, and the leak in the break will slow down considerably. Same thing with a water heater. Some are 50 gallons or more, and they leak. They are basically one big pipe as well, and HOT. They are under the same pressure as the pipes, and alot of them are now plastic because steel will rust out, and leak.

As far as the pressure ratings go, I posted on that above.

If you leave enough airspace in the pipes for the water to expand as it freezes, you shouldn't have a problem.

Most pipes crack when they freeze because they're full of water and the water has no place to go but out when it turns to ice.

Quoted: I have a finished garage, so the rafters aren't much of an option, but have an idea worth sharing.  My garage has a shelf, about 5 feet wide, running above the garage door, the width of the entire garage.  Since its a 2 car garage its very "wide", I have about 4 to 5 feet of vertical clearance and its 5-6 feet deep.  To help support it, the side that is not connected to a wall has some chains supporting it from the ceiling. The nice bonus of this kind of set up, is that when the garage door is up, you can't see the preps from outside, and most peopel won't even notice them from the inside.  I wouldn't store water up there, but other than that the framing on mine easily holds several hundred pounds.  Pics can be taken if I did not describe it clearly enough.

Pix would be awesome

You can also bolt ammo cans down in the bed of a p/u front and rear of the fender wells. That space it pretty wasted anyway Still have all the space above and betweeen the fenders. Great for Limited space issues and keeping stuff out of the cab. I keep most of my emerg. tools, straps, shackles, gloves etc in them. You can also get mounts to put shovels, axes etc. down the inside bed walls.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2181000-2181999/2181929_62_full.jpg

You can also make quite a bit of closet room by hanging anything possble on the empty walls. I moved my packs and couple soft sided gun cases to hooks on the wall of my closet this weekend when I rearranged since I was running out of room in it.