I'm going through alot of my gear, organizing and re-evaluating my BOB's (I have multiple ones for diff scenarios)

For my BOB's that would entail being on foot for extended periods of time BUT trying to be light weight and fast on my feet.
Such as my 3-Day, 10-Day, and 15-Day BOB's
I wonder about Caloric Intake bare minimums. I say minimum because It's the lowest amount I'd have on me per day assuming I don't forage or find any other food. I know and use all kinds of edibles around me in the wilderness. I could stay fed on just whats out there, but I still want to bring a bare minimum with me in case I have to be so Low-Profile I literally can't be processing anything that's not edible Raw on the spot. So understand these are Low Caloric intake amounts per day before those of you chime in with "You'll use way more then that, you don't know what you're doing blah blah blah"

The 3-Day has about 2,500 per day (Ideal for in my Car when I'll be a short day's drive from home, and assuming on foot I could manage to get home in 2-3 Days Time traveling fast, light, and low key)

The 10-Day has about 1,500-2,000 per day (again less then I'd use but it'll get me where I am going and whatever I forage and find along the way is a plus as I am good at living off the land. Hopefully I can get to where I am heading and situated before the Caloric intake becomes an issue)

But it's the 15 day pack that I ponder about.

My 15 day pack is designed to get me from my Home, to a Friends Farm (2nd family to me, they will be expecting me in such an event) at a mild pace (assuming I'm keeping low profile) it's about a 10 day walk. So I am packing for 15 days in the event I get slowed down or must hike around some heavily occupied area's or whatever else may slow me down.

What do you guys think is the BARE MINIMUM (keeping the light weight fast on my feet aspect in mind) that I should put into this bag.

I am going over pre-bundled calorie packs, I have wrapped in 1,000 Calorie intervals.

I'm debating if 1,000 is enough (on top of foraging since most of the land covered on my walk is wooded with state forest/national forest and I know all types of edibles in there I've eaten many times)
... or do I need to re-wrap them for 1,500 a day.
... or could I possibly go Lower knowing that I just need it to get myself to where I am going, then my caloric intake should increase upon arrival.

I want to keep this Pack as light as possible since I will be carrying a Rifle, Handgun and a Small load out of Ammunition with me.

I am no stranger to back packing... I've gone with 10 lbs, and I've hiked with almost 70 lbs... I know what to expect, which is why I want it light as possible.
and even 500 extra calories per day x 15 is the difference of several lbs.

So what say ye arfcom.
What is the BARE MINIMUM in my scenario you guys would be comfortable with???
1,000 is as low as I'd like to go (unless someone makes a valid case for going with 800 a day or something like that)... and even 15,000 calories can take up a little weight.
I want my total pack under 40 lbs, and with Said Rifle, handgun, and SMALL load out I'm already at about 20 lbs.
My other essentials are just under 10 lbs, so It leaves me roughly 10 lbs +/- to juggle for my food.

What amount would YOU be comfortable with in this scenario?

You bring up some good points which got me thinking. There are so many factors to figure in when calculating caloric requirements. I think a lot of things to think about would be overall weight, health conditions, your physical condition, etc. With you being in FL, I would think you wouldn't have to pack much water due to the overall availability of it so your wight would be lower. For me in UT, I have to worry about water because it's farther between good water sources, especially in the western and southern parts of the state. Interesting topic to think and discuss. Thanks.

Mind you... for those of you who are unaware.

FL has a Year round growth cycle of most plants (many of which are the edible ones I target).

There is 3 course meals to be had in most peoples yards if you know what you are looking for.

I am pretty knowledgeable and would say that with as little as a Knife I can prepare myself plenty of meals covering vitamins/nutrients, Starch (carbs), and even protein just from the available plants all around.

Especially in the Wooded areas around here.

The State and National forests are overly abundant with edibles.

If Needed, I could get by with foraging alone. It's just time spent foraging and processing food is not time spent moving towards my BOL. On top of the fact that every bit of my awareness being spent on foraging is awareness I lack for my protection and remaining Low-Profile and out of sight.

Oh yeah, water is NOT an issue here... Staying dry is ...

My Water system is 2 Stainless Steel canteens (Klean Kanteens brand, they way as much as plastic ones too) a Silk Cloth, and a bottle of Iodine tablets.
Lighter then my katadyn, less effort and lower profile. I have WAY more tablets then needed to get where I am going, and if I run out, I can boil water right in my canteens. But 100 tablets (50 qts) should be a more then needed. (I estimate 2 quarts a day but 3 at max coming to 45 qts if I stay the max amount of 15 days the pack is designed for) I may add another 100 tablets, since the tablets weigh next to nothing and I already am carrying the container they are in.

I am about 6'1 and 150 lbs, very lean but fit and strong, I do ALOT of back packing. I can eat alot, but I can get by with very little.
I'm also like a camel in the sense that I can go LONG distance on very little water, and hardly sweat. I've gone for several days at a time consuming less then 2 qts a day. 2-3 qts is very quenching for me. It's just how I am.

The 15 day BOB I mention is oriented around a temporary situation in order to cover a estimated 10 day walk to BOL. It's a 15 day BOB for the event I get slowed down by unseen obstacles. So if I am on day 7 of the expected 10 day walk, and have been right on time I can up my caloric intake since I dont see it taking 8 days to cover the additional 3 days of walking. It all depends.

It's that fine balance of what you EXPECT and what you MIGHT use on that trip.
There is no point in trying to cover distance with 200 lbs on your back... but no reason you should head out with only 2 lbs on you.

I guess I am just trying to narrow it down to the perfect balance for who I am and what I am capable of.

If you're planning on being out in the woods for 15 days, alone, you need to reset some priorities. THE essential thing you must have with you is a stable source of calories. Without calories, you probably will not die. But your situational awareness will suffer greatly, so will your athletic capability. There's a difference between a man hiking in the woods with a 40-50lbs pack with nothing in his belly and the same man who's reasonably well fed.














 

I appreciate your Post, very informative.

However, It appears you make a few assumptions.
I never mentioned MRE's for one...
Further more I question if you read my post. It's not a 15 day outting, I'm talking about a scenario.
I could take no food with me, and I could consume well over 2,000 calories a day. I am quite skilled in the woods and know how to get by.

The issue is what is the base of caloric intake. I want that balance of being as light on my feet as possible without sacrificing my safety. I don't need to be a well stuffed king. Just moderately fed for the task at hand (getting to said friends farm). So assuming I foraged NOTHING that day, what is the bare minimum you'd want on hand before you'd consider it dangeroues. Maybe for you that number is 4,000 calories a day. IDK which is why I am asking.

So in all reality (assuming I'm NOT carrying MRE's, which I am NOT) 10 lbs is plenty of space for 15 days worth of food.

I could carry individually wrapped portions of Bannock mix, the weight in water is already out there waiting for me, and then apply my Olive Oil in dipping the bannock into the oil. Also I prepare the bannock mix with other essentials in terms of nutrients and vitamins.
However, most of what I intend to carry, I want to be edible without having to cook/prepare.
The idea is to stay moving as much as possible, every time I have to stop and build a fire and keep low key while cooking (among other things) I am losing valuable distance and consuming calories not being spent on covering distance.

But regardless of all that. Its simply a matter of weight, I want to be as light as possible without sacrificing my safety. So carrying 4,000 calories a day seems like over-kill for the potential 10 day excursion where time/distance is the most critical factor.
I will also be foraging at every possible convenient chance I get (eating along the way) since FL has much that can be eaten Raw. Plenty of Plants that bear edible seeds, and tubers/root systems that are edible raw and provide Starch. Among a bunch of other Wild edibles that are plain as day all around us. Even the Palm family (hard to go anywhere and not see some type of Palm tree/plant around here) has an abundance of caloric intake if one knows how to get it from the plant.

So I'm just trying to get a well rounded number. And that number will be packed x15 for my 15 day BOB that is packed for a 10 day estimated travel.
Packing a 15 day BOB is already overkill as it is for a 10 day trek, so I'm merely trying to Trim the Fat in every which way possible including unneeded food on my back.

Well you have a point I made some assumptions but still my info is correct. You can scale the raw foodstuffs to any amount you wish. You can take half the amount and be very comfortable for 9-10 days. I just wanted to show that MH and MRE and etc are all well and good but this can be done, still quite easy, way cheaper with raw materials.

Indeed.

See it's things like this, that bring my mind back to the notion that 5 more lbs of food on me is well worth its weight being carried.

I can hike Far distances on very little. But I don't want it to be any more challenging then needed.
I may run the bag in the 1,500-2,000 calorie range.
With even half successful foraging, I should be taking in PLENTY of calories.
I also have 5 extra days worth of food... So if I am any bit on time (or even ahead of schedule) I can dip into the extra 5 day cache of food.

5 days goes by and I'm ahead of schedule but weak from only consuming 1,500 a day (assuming no foraging). I can start consuming up to 3,000 a day and still have the additional 5 days needed. Hoping I run into no obstacles.
I'd probably adjust the daily intake accordingly once I am half way there. Gauging between 2,000-2,500 a day so I'd still have a few extra days if some unseen event occurs and I lose a day or two of distance.

Try this calculator

Plug in your height/weight etc, and then pick the highest or second highest activity level, because you are planning on carrying a pack while hiking for very extended periods.

It shows that I need over 4300 calories per day to maintain weight in such a situation. Cutting to 2600/day will result in extreme weight loss.

Extreme weight loss is survivable, but it certainly won't be optimal if you are trying to maintain peak physical performance.

Alternatively, if I did nothing at all, I would need 2500 calories per day to maintain weight.

That's a sensible approach. I would never depend on foraging for any serious nutritional supplement but my AO is widely different from yours.

The calorie counts I see in these threads are always too high.

1200-1700 calories per day will suffice.

I've got tons of data points for this, but here are the general parametrics:

1 to 3 males, 145 to 195lbs

up to 3 weeks

temperatures ranging from ~20F to 60F

weight loss has always been <10lbs, even for the heavier individuals

I think you over looking the fact that if you need to bug out over you friends farm that it is going to be under ideal situations and circumstances.

What if you are injured? What if it rains for 3 days straight? What if 1 million other people are out an about displaced by the shtf?

So i would saw plan for the worst, not the bare minimum.

What if the land, water is contaminated from the shtf event so foraging is not an option?

There are a lot of variables.

I think you have a good basic plan and in response to your initial questions I would plan on 2000 calories a day for 15 days. Because nothing ever goes to plan. Besides if the weight is slowing you down you can always ditch some food. But if you don't have it and need it then you are screwed.

Just my $.02

For what it's worth I am going to bring 30,000 calories

That gives me at least 2,000 a day for 15 days.
And proportionately more if I'm on time or ahead of schedule after X-amount of days. (since I estimate the distance being covered in 10 at a mild pace)

For the few additional lbs beyond what I have, I believe it is well worth it.

I think that is a good balance for my pack.

Calories per day minimum -to- Weight on my back  Ratio seems good at 30,000 calories.

My only concern would be, that in the event you feel it neccessary for a 10-day trek to your BOL, that communications would be down.  There would be the potential that the BOL may not be a long term solution, or even accessable.  I would go with 1500 calories per day, I sense your quite comfortable on your own and are relatively self sufficient, but in the event of a real SHTF, with 1500/day you might have enough to last yourself for many weeks.

Just my $0.02

That's a very good point. I've been thinking about these sorts of long term outings lately. If you care the maximum possible amount of calories with you, without over encumbering yourself, you'll have the flexibility of surviving for a couple more weeks, if your BOL is compromised, if there's a big event absolutely preventing your travel, if you have to take a too big detour. More supplies would mean more adaptability.

 

I Appreciate the post.

Good points. All of which I have thought about.

Also know that I have the tooling on me to essentially remain put in the woods at any point in time.

The packaged calories are for movement and not being stationary too long.

If I am stationary I will provide all my calories.

In all reality (and I know from experience) I can COMFORTABLY stay alive with just a Stainless steel canteen and a Good knife. I will have more then that with me.

The BOL is the highest chance for a long term stationary survival environment, so in the event I get there and it looks compromised I will transition into my Plan B.
Plan B (in short) Stay Alive living off the Land and keeping a Low profile. I will have more tools then needed to do this as a one man team. I have simulated it many times. I have been into the woods with a SS canteen, a Knife, and a rip-stop Poncho Tarp for extended periods of time. I was comfortable with just those 3 items. I will have more then that on me. I will remain discreet, exert very little energy, and stay well fed off the land. I will kill time like this as long as needed, until a better opportunity comes about or I stumble upon a colony of seemingly trustworthy survivors who I have watched closely for an extended period of time.

I am willing to adapt to my situation as it changes, I am willing to overcome the hardship and do what it takes to survive.

All I can really do... Prepare myself as best I can (as I see fit) and take it one step at a time.

Yeah. In all reality even the 10 estimated days is over-kill. And the 15 is set for an Extreme worst case scenario I am willing to deal with living out of the pack.

In all reality I should reasonably be able to cover the distance and remain unseen in 5-6 days.
If I just took a straight walk at max hiking pace and wasn't as concerned about situational awareness and my surroundings I could walk it in 2-3 days.

So I am essentially making back up plans to my back up plans while remaining efficient and light weight.
(leaves room for a whole lot of "What If's")

Just giving you what you asked for "opinions wanted"

That said, i am not saying you had a broken leg, maybe sprained ankle which makes foraging painful and counter productive to getting you where you are going so your 10 day trip takes 18.

And I haven't spent countless hours thinking thru your plan only about 5 minutes so those were my first thoughts, so since you have it figured out, cool. No worries, just throwing things out there.

I have hiked, backpacked and camped in FL, GA, LA, SC, NC and CO and each time i always brought back food. So sure we can always do with less, just don't need to go all survivor man if I don't need too.

I said I appreciated the Post (and I meant it) It makes us both think about things.
Btw, CO has some awesome back packing.

Well the sprained ankle may be one of the "events" that holds me up.

It's a 2-3 day walk in normal conditions.
5-6 remaining low Key (moving half the speed and being more aware)
10 days I have it estimated for (already accounting for unseen obstacles that I must delay time over)
15 days is what the pack should Comfortably Handle (leaving much room for such events as a "Sprained Ankle")

I'm prepared at the minimum-level for 15 days (more then comfortable at 10 or less), assuming no foraging. But when you take into consideration the reality of it and what I am packed for. It really leaves alot of room for "What If's" and I know bad things can happen, and they always do at the worst time.
All of this factors into the aspect of Balance... what I need, and what I should have.

This is why I make these threads, because it makes us all think.

You've made some good points, most of which I feel I am already prepared for. However, they make me re-think and take precautions. Some of this thread has already made me consider some changes.

So like my original statement. I really do appreciate your post.

Definitely a good thought provoking thread. I have a buddy who has the same plan to get to my place, he is on the east coast of FL I am on the west coast of FL. It is only a few hours drive but on foot it makes it a two week journey under good conditions so we have talked about it.

Interesting.

I'm in North Pinellas, trying to make my way to inverness, just outside the withlacoochie state forrest.

I have satellite imagery printed out detailing the best possible route behind neighbor hoods and near high ways that have large chunks of undeveloped land (heavily Wooded and often swampy). Only a handful of Places I HAVE to cross roads and places I can be seen. At least its the best possible route I can find to remain Unseen.

Hopefully I can avoid this by driving to the BOL at first known sign of impending SHTF that hasn't gotten out of control yet. Once things have actually hit the fan I refuse to channel myself on the road in a vehicle.
You're just asking to be Killed/looted/plundered/ambushed/robbed/whatever when you do that. To hard to be situationally aware while channeling ones self.

I think it would be a tough call. Your body uses more calories when under stress and weather affects the amount of calories burned. I say pack 2,000 per day and forage. We are opportunistic animals so get food when you can find it. Of course if you come acroos a 5 course meal along the way the food in you pack will last longer.

I was going to type out a longer post but I see how others' advice has been handled so I will keep mine short.  

your shorter outings such as 3 day, you can use less calories per day for those.  A lot depends on your weight now and what your target weight is.  For example if you are walking with a light load, your food factor is 15.  So if you currently weigh 155 and you still want to weigh 155 at the end of your trip, you would need at least 2300 calories, and probably more depending on how fast you walk, your load, etc.  If you are carrying a much greater load, your food factor may be 17 or 19.  You can burn an immense amount of calories if you are working for several hours.    

your longer trip, say the 15 day one, would require MUCH more calories by teh 3d day on, than just a short trip.  carbs, protein, and fat in that order  - should make up your diet.  If you fail to consume carbs your body will process your own carbs which means catabolization.

Any deviation from factoring in more calories will mean you lose a lot of weight on your trip.  This may be ok with you if you are hefty to start with.

Your longer input on the subject would be appreciated by at least some people.

i have a hard time thinking that you run 2qts of h20 a day as your water ration.

I have hiked with those who do  not  " sweat" and even in the heat we have had this summer they went through more than that..

The last few day hikes i have done on the FT this summer have lacked two things...

cold weather and other hikers or their track...............meaning many do not attempt to hike once the "heat" is on.



I aint saying you "cant" i just know what i have seen others deal with extreme temps over several miles a day.



Myself i ration 2 liters per every 5-6 miles. Once in camp i consume 1-2 more( between cooking,re hydrating cleaning)

This is for mild temps.

Summer temps i consume more. Almost as much in camp to re hydrate  as i do on trail( up to 3 liters once in camp in extreme temps). Im a water person. i drink alot of it.

But i hardly eat. My food runs just about the 1k cals per day. I eat more in winter temps.around the 1500 to 2k mark depending on distance.

like always ymmv

I shit you not about the water. The two friends I hike with the most, consume water more on a level of how you describe. They don't understand why I consume so little, but I Do. I plan to up the number of tablets being carried on me, so I can purify more water as needed in the event I am Bugging out. I have only ever consumed a half gallon a day when I am out there. I've just never consumed more water then that. I agree it's probably not a safe amount, but I've never felt the need for more. Another 100 Tablets Won't add any considerable amount of weight, So I most definitely should carry more.
Not to mention I can boil as much as I need. FL has plenty of fresh water sources across it.

What is the Formula you are using to determine the food factor?
I would like to calculate what it suggests is my actual minimum a day to maintain weight. This may be the number I should go with for a potential 15 day excursion.

Thanks for the post.

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm