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Posted: 10/15/2008 2:09:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 2:09:22 PM EDT by allenwrench]

Looks like OB is getting in and coupled with a Dem congress I wonder how safe our gun rights are?

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 2:26:00 PM EDT
I think that the premise of a Hussein Obama victory is very overblown.  Get out and vote and encourage everyone you know to work for McCain.  You can join the McCain camp and make phone calls, etc.  Zogby poll is pretty much margin of error and i think he is the only one close to being right.  

I could write about this all day, but it sure as hell isn't over like the media would have us believe.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 2:29:08 PM EDT
Why are so many people giving up on McCain & Palin ? People read polls and think its  done deal . I think polls are for the most part a tool of the left to discourage our side. Go John & Sarah keep fighting for the cause!!!
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 2:33:20 PM EDT
hussein as President
enough of a margin in the House and Senate that will prevent fillibuster
A couple of new Supremes that are like Chuck Schumer.

yeah, your guns are in danger.  Quicker than you think too.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 2:34:28 PM EDT
John Kerry was "ahead" in 2004.......Al Gore was ahead in 2000.........Polls mean exactly JACK.

On topic - you can prepare for only so many possibilities. No one here knows where our country will be in a year, 5 years, or 20....Many Americans are on board the socialism bandwagon though. I would expect to see more government encroachment on your personal life and higher taxes. Maybe more gun bans. Historically, this has shown itself to be true.

But vote and get your conservative peers to vote. The election is a couple weeks away - there doesn't need to be a Marxist in office in January.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:03:49 PM EDT
We be screwed
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:09:39 PM EDT
I just spent $2000 on guns and ammo. I hated to do it with the economy looking as bad as it does, but it might be now or never.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:17:06 PM EDT
Those phony polls are part of the Dems disinformation and propaganda program. You keep telling the same lies over & over and it becomes real. Look at all the phony registered voters their pet project ACORN created. It still gets me mad to think the Dems had the guts to try make ACORN a part of the bailout bill.

YES you better worry about your gun rights with Obama,Biden,Schumer and Nancy Pelosi all in power!

Red
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:47:03 PM EDT
It is not just legislation. They will appoint justices that have little regard for the second amendment. A bad law plus some leftist justices to consider it constitutional equals dead guns rights. If we lose, we must pay attention to our state and federal legislators every day. Call, Fax and email every day. Do it in your location and for other areas. There are democrats that support gun rights. Call them and say way to go. Fight FIGHT FIGHT.

Rob
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:47:11 PM EDT
Obama or no Obama. Our rights are never safe. Never ever think they are. The powers that be or wish to be will always see citizen ownership of firearms as their biggest hurdle to absolute power.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:05:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slugcatcher:
Obama or no Obama. Our rights are never safe. Never ever think they are. The powers that be or wish to be will always see citizen ownership of firearms as their biggest hurdle to absolute power.

Well said never take any of our rights for granted.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:37:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By allenwrench:
Looks like OB is getting in and coupled with a Dem congress I wonder how safe our gun rights are?

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?

Thanks

i haven't read the supreme court decision, but i'm guessing it wouldn't protect against limitations on guns.  for example, limiting import of guns from certain countries and/or prohibiting the sale of guns w/ removable mags.  

if obama gets in, it's pretty much guaranteed that he'll go after guns. increase taxes and further screw up the country as he marches us toward socialism.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:56:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 03Jarhead:
I think that the premise of a Hussein Obama victory is very overblown.  Get out and vote and encourage everyone you know to work for McCain.  You can join the McCain camp and make phone calls, etc.  Zogby poll is pretty much margin of error and i think he is the only one close to being right.  

I could write about this all day, but it sure as hell isn't over like the media would have us believe.


AMEN!!!
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mannlicher:
hussein as President
enough of a margin in the House and Senate that will prevent fillibuster
A couple of new Supremes that are like Chuck Schumer.

yeah, your guns are in danger.  Quicker than you think too.


I don't disagree with what you say, and God knows I am a McCain supporter, but, I will say that the likeliest Justices to leave the Supremes are libs (Ginsburg and Stephens, I think). Therefore, the balance might not be upset.

Hey, I'm looking for a silver lining wherever I can find it. There ain't that many.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:19:00 PM EDT
Simply put, don't give up and vote McCain / Palin!  Talk to family and friends and have them do the same.  If I remember correctly, weren't the Democrats supposed to win the last presidential election?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 3:43:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wvar15:
I just spent $2000 on guns and ammo. I hated to do it with the economy looking as bad as it does, but it might be now or never.


I am not kidding, last year my two best performing investments (per my accountant) were "Treasure Hunting" and "Ammo Hoarding".

I was caught like a deer in the headlights in 1994. I will never let myself be in that position again.

BTW- The only "poll" that matters is the one on Nov.4! Make sure you vote and make sure "like-minded" friends vote. Encourage Obama supporters not to bother voting because "Obama is way ahead in the CNN poll" so it won't matter
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:21:47 AM EDT
I just don't see Gun Controll being an issue any more, unlike in the past elections have you even really heard it talked about? It is no longer popular for Democrates to come across as anti gun like they used to, hey these people aint dumb and they remember how being actively anti gun cost them lots of votes and lost elections for them. They might mouth some anti gun stuff for thier base but they are not going to risk votes by doing anything or being to vocal about it.
I think if somthing big happened like some nut going crazy with a 50 cal or a semi .30 cal. belt fed you might see specialised bans that won't affect many gun owners but bans like we saw under the first Bush and Clinton I just don't see it. It really isn't a Republican or Democrate thing even, remember some of the worse gun bans were during the papa Bush term. The only reason they did it was because there was a feeling that was what the voting public wanted and I just don't think that same feeling is out there now. ......Todd  
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:41:54 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By 03Jarhead:
I think that the premise of a Hussein Obama victory is very overblown.  Get out and vote and encourage everyone you know to work for McCain.  You can join the McCain camp and make phone calls, etc.  Zogby poll is pretty much margin of error and i think he is the only one close to being right.  

I could write about this all day, but it sure as hell isn't over like the media would have us believe.


Yep that is what it is polls and the news. They predict OB so it is easy to lose faith.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:44:51 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By wvar15:
I just spent $2000 on guns and ammo. I hated to do it with the economy looking as bad as it does, but it might be now or never.


Someone told me even if they don't ban guns they may tax guns and ammo into oblivion.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:47:11 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By RedWoods:
Those phony polls are part of the Dems disinformation and propaganda program. You keep telling the same lies over & over and it becomes real. Look at all the phony registered voters their pet project ACORN created. It still gets me mad to think the Dems had the guts to try make ACORN a part of the bailout bill.

YES you better worry about your gun rights with Obama,Biden,Schumer and Nancy Pelosi all in power!

Red


What happened to the Reps. How did Acorn get so powerful? The Reps look like they are being walked all over.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:49:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 5:05:39 AM EDT by allenwrench]
height=8
Originally Posted By discworld717:
It is not just legislation. They will appoint justices that have little regard for the second amendment. A bad law plus some leftist justices to consider it constitutional equals dead guns rights. If we lose, we must pay attention to our state and federal legislators every day. Call, Fax and email every day. Do it in your location and for other areas. There are democrats that support gun rights. Call them and say way to go. Fight FIGHT FIGHT.

Rob


So will a new dem stacked court dismiss the Supreme courts previous favorable gun ruling?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 5:01:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 5:07:03 AM EDT by allenwrench]
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Originally Posted By Cacinok:
height=8
Originally Posted By allenwrench:
Looks like OB is getting in and coupled with a Dem congress I wonder how safe our gun rights are?

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?

Thanks

i haven't read the supreme court decision, but i'm guessing it wouldn't protect against limitations on guns.  for example, limiting import of guns from certain countries and/or prohibiting the sale of guns w/ removable mags.  

if obama gets in, it's pretty much guaranteed that he'll go after guns. increase taxes and further screw up the country as he marches us toward socialism.


I was talking about the recent SC ruling that made guns legal in DC. Was supposed to be a big win for gun rights.

With the way it sounds NRA must be shitn their pants.

Socialism?

After the banks, they may be looking at nationalizing the oil co's for national security.

Maybe we need some socialism, I don't know? I do know we will have trouble keep on keeping on as a country, so something has to give.

But if socialism = no guns...then my answer is NO.

We are in a world of trouble. We have many areas eating away at our survival...

Peak oil and the depletion of ALL fossil fuels including uranium.

Dwindling potable water.

Overpopulation.

A lying, delusional government that can't get to work on restructuring our society, as it can't even admit there is a problem.

A defective model for long term population support that requires constant consumption and unsustainable growth at the expense of sound, long term economic practices.

Future food shortages. Food that is unhealthy and a mindset to 'poison for profit.' Food that is unaffordable.

Global unrest and resource wars brewing.

My survival mentor says to prepare for the unthinkable one must first think the unthinkable.

When they come fro your guns..they might as well be coming to cut off your balls.

Guns are a populations last line of defense.

Look at Afghanistan...they beat Russia with guns. And the US is still having trouble with 'the people' there from their guns.

Let's look at what happens when a country has no guns.

Burma was a recent example of what happens.

A dictator comes to power with plenty of guns, but when it comes to the populace...they cannot be trusted with guns.

This quote was attributed to George Washington but other authorities say it is a counterfeit quote.

Whomever said it...it is gospel.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the moment the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms, go all goes; we need them every hour."
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 5:04:45 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
I just don't see Gun Controll being an issue any more, unlike in the past elections have you even really heard it talked about? It is no longer popular for Democrates to come across as anti gun like they used to, hey these people aint dumb and they remember how being actively anti gun cost them lots of votes and lost elections for them. They might mouth some anti gun stuff for thier base but they are not going to risk votes by doing anything or being to vocal about it.
I think if somthing big happened like some nut going crazy with a 50 cal or a semi .30 cal. belt fed you might see specialised bans that won't affect many gun owners but bans like we saw under the first Bush and Clinton I just don't see it. It really isn't a Republican or Democrate thing even, remember some of the worse gun bans were during the papa Bush term. The only reason they did it was because there was a feeling that was what the voting public wanted and I just don't think that same feeling is out there now. ......Todd  



Well, they may not be talking about gun bans. But once they get control...that is what worries me.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 5:36:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By allenwrench:

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?


the courts ruling will protect the right to have a gun.

HOWEVER it does not say anything about what guns.
the left can still ban rifles, then ban pump shotguns, then all semi autos, then all multi shot guns

and we will have nothing left but muskets or single shot  pistols
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:34:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 6:34:53 AM EDT by justbill]

Originally Posted By allenwrench:

Look at Afghanistan...they beat Russia with guns. And the US is still having trouble with 'the people' there from their guns.


You're kidding, right? The Muj were getting their collective asses handed to them until the CIA started to smuggle-in Stinger SAM's, Milan ATGM's and early GPS receivers to increase indirect fire artillery accuracy.

Back to the topic at hand. As several other respondents have said, don't give up on McCain/Palin just yet. Just yesterday I heard internal RNC polls have it 45% McCain, 43% Obama, 4% Barr (thanks a whole fucking lot Bob!), and 8% undecided. You don't lie to yourself in internal polls.

Equally if not more important is to make sure you elect pro-gun Congressmen, Senators, Governors, state Attorneys General. Without a strong base of anti-gun support at these levels,  Obama's dreams of a disarmed America are much harder to make reality.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:38:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By allenwrench:

Originally Posted By Cacinok:

Originally Posted By allenwrench:
Looks like OB is getting in and coupled with a Dem congress I wonder how safe our gun rights are?

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?

Thanks

i haven't read the supreme court decision, but i'm guessing it wouldn't protect against limitations on guns.  for example, limiting import of guns from certain countries and/or prohibiting the sale of guns w/ removable mags.  

if obama gets in, it's pretty much guaranteed that he'll go after guns. increase taxes and further screw up the country as he marches us toward socialism.


I was talking about the recent SC ruling that made guns legal in DC. Was supposed to be a big win for gun rights.

as i stated the SC decision protects your rights to have guns, but the .gov can limit the type of gun (e.g., whether the gun has a detachable mag).

Socialism?

After the banks, they may be looking at nationalizing the oil co's for national security.

Maybe we need some socialism, I don't know? I do know we will have trouble keep on keeping on as a country, so something has to give.

wtf?  maybe we need socialism????  what we need are politicians who put the people's needs/good in front of the needs of those who give them money.  the 750 billion bail out helped out the banks, not joe average.

Peak oil and the depletion of ALL fossil fuels including uranium.

if you haven't noticed, oil is down to $73/ barrel, hardly "peak oil".  and according to many experts there's enough oil to last us a long time if we can drill for it and convert it from shale.  basically if the environmental wackos don't continue to screw us.  

Dwindling potable water.

what??? do you have any valid sources for the above comment?


Overpopulation.

yes overpopulation.  too many damn cows on the 400+ empty acres that surround my house.

A lying, delusional government that can't get to work on restructuring our society, as it can't even admit there is a problem.

restructuring our society?  isn't that part of what has got society into the mess it's in?  .gov restructuring society through welfare programs.

Guns are a populations last line of defense.

Look at Afghanistan...they beat Russia with guns. And the US is still having trouble with 'the people' there from their guns.

guns alone did not defeat the russians in afghanistan - stinger missiles are what made the difference.

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:42:40 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By justbill:
height=8
Originally Posted By allenwrench:

Look at Afghanistan...they beat Russia with guns. And the US is still having trouble with 'the people' there from their guns.


You're kidding, right? The Muj were getting their collective asses handed to them until the CIA started to smuggle-in Stinger SAM's, Milan ATGM's and early GPS receivers to increase indirect fire artillery accuracy.

Back to the topic at hand. As several other respondents have said, don't give up on McCain/Palin just yet. Just yesterday I heard internal RNC polls have it 45% McCain, 43% Obama, 4% Barr (thanks a whole fucking lot Bob!), and 8% undecided. You don't lie to yourself in internal polls.

Equally if not more important is to make sure you elect pro-gun Congressmen, Senators, Governors, state Attorneys General. Without a strong base of anti-gun support at these levels,  Obama's dreams of a disarmed America are much harder to make reality.




Well, bottom line is your sunk with no weapons.

Sure small arms will not do much good with shock and awe.

But those with guns will still fight until the last.


"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains.
And go to your Gawd like a soldier" ~ Kipling

And yes, we need the stong base.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:44:35 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Russ79:
height=8
Originally Posted By allenwrench:

Does the US Supreme Court's recent ruling protect the gun owners absolutely?

Or can the gun banners still do lots of damage?


the courts ruling will protect the right to have a gun.

HOWEVER it does not say anything about what guns.
the left can still ban rifles, then ban pump shotguns, then all semi autos, then all multi shot guns

and we will have nothing left but muskets or single shot  pistols



WOW! Could be almost as bad as the UK. They even ban high power air guns there.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 7:12:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 7:17:32 AM EDT by allenwrench]
Maybe we need some socialism, I don't know? I do know we will have trouble keep on keeping on as a country, so something has to give.

wtf? maybe we need socialism???? what we need are politicians who put the people's needs/good in front of the needs of those who give them money. the 750 billion bail out helped out the banks, not joe average.



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********



I agree, the rich are getting a windfall paid for by the average joe.

The only way socialism works is if the participants are selfless and not selfish. But it is a pipe dream to think we or the heads of state can be selfless.

But we have to look at the alternative free market capitalism...every man for himself.

Socialism can do good or do bad...just depends on the lying rhetorician in office...and they change every 4 years.

You got a 401K?

Without recent socialist moves the US made (but probably not the bailout, better termed reamout for the taxpayer) you'd be busted in your 401K.

(And even with socialism...you still may be busted.)

We have built a defective model for long term population support. We can only keep on keeping on as long as the crude is free flowing and affordable by the masses.

In our future, Americans may find themselves to lean more to a community based life, As the crude dries up the gov may find it hard to help all those in need. Localized groups and communes of sorts may be all we have to turn to. In the meantime, the gov has turned to socialism as a way to curb the deaths.

so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

If we look at the various powers the government has though executive orders, we are pretty much there (a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.) without much effort.

Here are just a few of them...

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

http://sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon5.html

What happened to all our individual freedoms with these executive orders?

It was lost long ago in the deluded American dream that believes the individual American can survive on their own. Without a strong government you guys would be speaking Chinese or Russian. What happened to the personal property of Iraq when the US took it down? Ditto for your homes and McMansions if another country decided 'to move' here.

Even the so called selfless communist governments get weighed down with egocentric leaders.

If one is selfless such as ants or bees communism's works fine. It is only when selfishness is injected that communism fails miserably.

The reason the ideal of communism fails is because imperfect humans have to apply the perfect ideals. Same goes with our imperfect democratic elected leaders. But the problem is not so much that we elect imperfect leaders the problem is that we have no overnight committee to change the wrongs that they do.

I will say for communism to be fair minded and even handed, all workers would periodically exchange jobs (best they could) from top to bottom. That way favoritism would not be such a problem.

But who wants to go from the ivory tower to shoveling shit, so lets get real - we are dealing with human egos here.  And even if we wish to 'try' and do good, one cannot replace highly skilled workers with the shit shoveler. So no matter how we slice it, there will always be exceptions to the rule.

When it comes down to it, we ARE dependent on strong government to keep the invading armies at bay. But everyday life is NOT dependent on the politicians flapping their jaws and blowing hot air out their ass. What we are dependent on is each other and our cooperation at making life livable from the lowest shit shoveler and up the ladder to the highest doctor or airline pilot.

In the end, I choose a democracy of sorts and when the democracy fails them replace it with bits and pieces of socialized areas, but all the while trying to keep the democratic foundation and as much personal freedoms in force best we can.

If we look at the root of communism it is that of the commune-ist. The hippy communes and the Israeli Kibbutz's and the modern day survival devotees that plan to buy some land and develop a 'survival community' to live of the land all share in the same commune-ist dream.

But the point is not to persuade you to be a communist, but to foster a realization that for the US to survive, we must put 'what matters to our country' on the front burner...and as our country survives...so do we survive.

Either the gov works for the people or against.

We must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.

America has been built on debt and spending. 70% of our 'economic heath,' better termed as 'economic sickness' is based on consumer spending. When the consumer can't compulsively spend any longer our economy collapses...we are not a healthy country.

Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country.

Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer.

It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from.

Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.

All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources.

Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW and the bill is coming due soon!

Change is the buzzword for 2008 elections....vote for change!

Well, lets be honest...in politics substantive change is only paid lip service. Our whole system fights change. And if perchance some change does come about it is quickly squelched every 4 years by the new incoming administration and we backslide.

One candidate may have better spin on the question - so you vote for him or her. But when it comes down to it - politicians are pretty much all lying rhetoricians...so the ignorant public just votes for the best liar!

Lets look at an example. Pres Carter was gung -ho on renewables so he installed solar panels on the white house roof. Reagan comes in and removes the solar panels.

Instead of keeping any good gov workers that really work for the citizens. These folks must go and the current political deity puts their cronies and high dollar contributors in power every 4 years.

If one party is in the white house and another party is in the congress most of the time is spent battling each other and trying to make your enemies look bad.

As the dieoff approaches we will still no doubt be putting all our hopes in the next political deity that tells us he or she can transform our world.

China and Russia tried to support its people though a sustainable, self sufficient manner when they ere totally RED. Now that they are PINK, they are much more successful at support,

So the world exchanged the dread of communist domination for that of the problem of more capitalism and consumption. But as Taoists tell us...fleas come with the dog.

America now wishes China and India had stayed backwards. But as long as the crude holds out, they can't go backwards once they got a taste of the American dream.

So the US tells the world - "Don't do as we do...do as we say. Stop using up all the fossil fuel China and India...and leave all the depletion of fossil fuels to us professionals in the US of A!"

This is American hubris at its best.

We have created a time bomb. Even the highest level brainiac economists can't fix what ails us. Our whole system is based on an unsustainable model that will eventually collapse no matter how much money that is printed up by the Fed. (...they don't even need to print money nowadays, all that needs to be done to create billions is to magnetize a silicon chip!)

Now maybe if our energy supply was stable and affordable and peak oil and global warming was not an issue, things would be different and we could keep on consuming and expanding as infinitum

Sad thing is...IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE TO DO A 180...Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country.

You ever hear the saying...'I got the tiger by the tail and can't let go?' That is how it has developed in the US of A.

Lets say everyone becomes voluntary simplicity and frugal squirrel devotees. We recycle, reuse, repair and just say no to buying more crap. If we stop buying all the stuff that America imports from China - who keeps the billion plus people in China from starving, so they do not go back to old ways of trying to take over the world?

And on a more local level, if the consumer stops consuming even US goods, the US companies go bust, everyone loses their jobs and his or her retirement funds will collapse.

What about growing a a garden...nothing wrong with that?  Lets say everyone starts growing 'victory gardens' in the backyard as food has become unaffordable. So some of the few farmers left in the US go bust cause their food just rots on the shelves unsold. Now there is less food being produced and at even a higher cost to those that can afford it the least.

What about more taxes? Tax the little guy so DC can pay for their compulsive spending disease. More taxes = less for us to compulsively spend 'trying' to buy happiness = lower earnings for the greedy corporations = raise hell with the DOW = less cap gains tax income for the gov to squander = everyone's retirement funds sink lower and lower = even less compulsive spending since everyone is poorer.

Back in the day, (prairie and turn of the century) citizens were more of a self sufficient nature. Most of us have lost that skill of self sufficiency and we have shifted gears to be dependent on gov and a few other such as farmers or oil producers or China to take care of the whole pop of the US. The problem is, it is very hard to go back without causing a lot of pain. (Actually a lot of deaths)

Hell, the impotent people of modern day and age can't even make pancakes or peanut butter sandwiches and have to buy them ready made in the store...it's really scary.



Link Posted: 10/16/2008 7:23:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Makarov:

Originally Posted By wvar15:
I just spent $2000 on guns and ammo. I hated to do it with the economy looking as bad as it does, but it might be now or never.


I am not kidding, last year my two best performing investments (per my accountant) were "Treasure Hunting" and "Ammo Hoarding".

I was caught like a deer in the headlights in 1994. I will never let myself be in that position again.

BTW- The only "poll" that matters is the one on Nov.4! Make sure you vote and make sure "like-minded" friends vote. Encourage Obama supporters not to bother voting because "Obama is way ahead in the CNN poll" so it won't matter


I was thinking along those lines also. I figure I could always sell if I need the money later. What kind of treasure hunting were you doing?
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 4:08:43 AM EDT
Voted McCain/Palin via absentee last week - my first presidential election
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:34:35 AM EDT
QUOTE:
If we look at the various powers the government has though executive orders, we are pretty much there (a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.) without much effort.

Here are just a few of them...

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
END QUOTE

I made comment earlier in a thread as to this also, And was flamed like no tomorrow.
All these orders come into effect under the patroit act, when there is a national emergancy.
Make no mistake about it, THIS WILL HAPPEN, this has been in the works for a few decades.  
all it takes to inact all of the above is a pen stroke!

ASK yourself, why would the goverment have to implment any of the above Exec orderes?
Why would they even have to write them?
The post master General in charge of regerstering people? Relocating citizens? pubic work forces (taking citizens and makeing work birgades!)
Why would they have to?
You all are so worried about a ban, Well when marital law is inacted there will be a nation wide gun ban!

We'll see how really bad ass you guys are when the war IS domestic!



Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:20:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2008 8:21:24 AM EDT by wvar15]
The UPS guy who just delivered my ammo, told my wife I'm not alone. He said that a lot of people are having guns and ammo delivered on his route including himself. It's nice to know my UPS guy is pro gun.  
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:13:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NBKA:
QUOTE:


We'll see how really bad ass you guys are when the war IS domestic!





Awe shucks, if we have a month or two to lose the extra 25-50 pounds, and get really pissed off, then I suppose we'll be able to make a bit better showing than a bunch of rag-heads...

Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:50:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 03Jarhead:
I think that the premise of a Hussein Obama victory is very overblown.  Get out and vote and encourage everyone you know to work for McCain.  You can join the McCain camp and make phone calls, etc.  Zogby poll is pretty much margin of error and i think he is the only one close to being right.  

I could write about this all day, but it sure as hell isn't over like the media would have us believe.


This and

Yes they can.  All heller did was say you can not restrict an entire class of weapons9rifles,handguns shotguns).  How to get around this? An AWB2.  You can still own some rifles shotguns and handguns so no class has been totally banned.  Heller would not apply.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dedhorse:
I just don't see Gun Controll being an issue any more, unlike in the past elections have you even really heard it talked about? It is no longer popular for Democrates to come across as anti gun like they used to, hey these people aint dumb and they remember how being actively anti gun cost them lots of votes and lost elections for them. They might mouth some anti gun stuff for thier base but they are not going to risk votes by doing anything or being to vocal about it.
I think if somthing big happened like some nut going crazy with a 50 cal or a semi .30 cal. belt fed you might see specialised bans that won't affect many gun owners but bans like we saw under the first Bush and Clinton I just don't see it. It really isn't a Republican or Democrate thing even, remember some of the worse gun bans were during the papa Bush term. The only reason they did it was because there was a feeling that was what the voting public wanted and I just don't think that same feeling is out there now. ......Todd  


Sorry flawed arguement.  They are not talking about it.  That does not mean they have given it up.  have you read the DNC's platform that calls for a re-instatement of the AWB?  

All they learned was don't talk about it.  They will continue to work towards and they will come up with no ways around it.  Ammo restrictions/taxes ala Ca comes to mind.

Thinking it is no longer an issue is what the banners want.  They want you fat dumb happy and complacent.  
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:28:57 PM EDT
TERM  LIMITS
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 2:50:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kikomax:
TERM  LIMITS


I absolutely agree, and so do many people I talk to.

Nobody can figure out how to get politicians to voluntarily lay themselves off.

They blow us off about illegal immigration, they certainly won't entertain the idea of term limits.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 3:48:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LTverticl:

Originally Posted By kikomax:
TERM  LIMITS


I absolutely agree, and so do many people I talk to.

Nobody can figure out how to get politicians to voluntarily lay themselves off.

They blow us off about illegal immigration, they certainly won't entertain the idea of term limits.


The problem with term limits is that there is a plethora of antigun socialist who would love to run for office. Conservatives are often a minority in the political realm. There will always be another Ted Kennedy, Chuckie Schumer, or Diane Swinestein to step up to the plate. Not so with limited government conservatives. There needs to be some accountability though - and people need to be educated since the mainstream media largely fills the public's head with lies.

Regardless of the election, now more then ever is the time to get less dependent on government. Government won't save you or bail you out in tough times - it's can't even do the simple tasks successfully. Get debt free, build up an emergency fund, and stockpile supplies that you'll use anyway. Get your own land in a rural area if possible - that's still on my list. More importantly, network with friends and family to help each other out. Good friends can help each other immensely during tough times.

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