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Posted: 1/11/2015 7:55:40 PM EST
I've always been intrigued by them. But other than quieting knocking someone out or killing them, there's not really any other use for them. So I could never justify adding them as part of any gear set.

Now if you're in LE/Security they may serve a role for you. But for the rest of us NOT in those professions....anyone have one or several as part of their gear, whether it's EDC, BOB, GHB, etc.?

Thanks

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:00:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 8:02:55 PM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
I've always been intrigued by them. But other than quieting knocking someone out or killing them, there's not really any other use for them. So I could never justify adding them as part of any gear set.

Now if you're in LE/Security they may serve a role for you. But for the rest of us NOT in those professions....anyone have one or several as part of their gear, whether it's EDC, BOB, GHB, etc.?

Thanks

-Emt1581
View Quote



Still have my slap-jack from my LEO days.

Does that count, or is it another gimmick to get you arrested?



Did you ever buy that little car?


Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:03:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:

Still have my slap-jack from my LEO days.

Does that count, or is it another gimmick.

View Quote


Gimmick? I don't know what you mean there.

I was talking to a cop at my station about those the other day. Seems they still make pants with those pockets sewn into them even though most cops aren't allowed to carry them anymore.

I'm taking it you're no longer in LE right? If that's true, what role does the slapper serve for you other than maybe gathering dust in a drawer/box?

Thanks

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:04:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 8:05:11 PM EST by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Emt1581:


Gimmick? I don't know what you mean there.

I was talking to a cop at my station about those the other day. Seems they still make pants with those pockets sewn into them even though most cops aren't allowed to carry them anymore.

I'm taking it you're no longer in LE right? If that's true, what role does the slapper serve for you other than maybe gathering dust in a drawer/box?

Thanks

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:

Still have my slap-jack from my LEO days.

Does that count, or is it another gimmick.



Gimmick? I don't know what you mean there.

I was talking to a cop at my station about those the other day. Seems they still make pants with those pockets sewn into them even though most cops aren't allowed to carry them anymore.

I'm taking it you're no longer in LE right? If that's true, what role does the slapper serve for you other than maybe gathering dust in a drawer/box?

Thanks

-Emt1581



Memorabilia along with a letter or two of commendation and some news clips...






Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:04:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:


Did you ever buy that little car?


View Quote


Not yet. But due to my wife's car dying last week and a repair it needed, that ate a significant chunk out of the budget. I have my eye out though.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:12:41 PM EST
Yes, they still make the sap pockets on pants, works well for a light also. The asp baton works great for break and rake of a car window or home window. I still carry mine at work, most have them left in their lockers, but to me it is literally another tool on the belt, Too many people are over confident in the taser or oc spray..
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:17:19 PM EST
I carry an ASP baton while jogging.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:21:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Loco:
I carry an ASP baton while jogging.
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Instead of a gun or in addition?

I only ask because weight-wise I think a mouse gun would be lighter and more compact.

Thanks

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:28:29 PM EST
There really is nothing for that a baton can do for a non LE person that can't be done with a pepper spray/firearm combo.

A baton works really well to subdue an opponent that you intend to arrest because you can use joint manipulation techniques. As far a self defense goes, one is not trying to arrest someone and that is why I see it as useless.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:47:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By takdriver:
There really is nothing for that a baton can do for a non LE person that can't be done with a pepper spray/firearm combo.

A baton works really well to subdue an opponent that you intend to arrest because you can use joint manipulation techniques. As far a self defense goes, one is not trying to arrest someone and that is why I see it as useless.
View Quote


That's true about the arrest part. And in a non-LE capacity, I can only see that serving a purpose for kidnapping/interrogation which we typically don't concern ourselves with as preppers.. Otherwise there's no real point in worrying about keeping someone alive when it comes to defense. You act (hit, stab, shoot, etc.) to stop and survive...not to preserve life.

But similar to a knife, a baton does not run out of bullets.

-Emt1581

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:52:20 PM EST
Get the longer 26+ versions.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:53:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


That's true about the arrest part. And in a non-LE capacity, I can only see that serving a purpose for kidnapping/interrogation which we typically don't concern ourselves with as preppers.. Otherwise there's no real point in worrying about keeping someone alive when it comes to defense. You act (hit, stab, shoot, etc.) to stop and survive...not to preserve life.

But similar to a knife, a baton does not run out of bullets.

-Emt1581

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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By takdriver:
There really is nothing for that a baton can do for a non LE person that can't be done with a pepper spray/firearm combo.

A baton works really well to subdue an opponent that you intend to arrest because you can use joint manipulation techniques. As far a self defense goes, one is not trying to arrest someone and that is why I see it as useless.


That's true about the arrest part. And in a non-LE capacity, I can only see that serving a purpose for kidnapping/interrogation which we typically don't concern ourselves with as preppers.. Otherwise there's no real point in worrying about keeping someone alive when it comes to defense. You act (hit, stab, shoot, etc.) to stop and survive...not to preserve life.

But similar to a knife, a baton does not run out of bullets.

-Emt1581




5-7's usually don't either...

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:55:27 PM EST
I carry one in my truck, along with OC. You can be trained in it's proper use pretty quickly. LEOs in my State are trained/allowed three different points of intentional strikes, all below the waist. But if you are in a fight for your life, it can be used as needed anywhere on the opponent. As already said, it's another tool on the bat belt. Perhaps useful to get a non compliant unarmed individual from pounding on another.If anyone has a blade or striking device, the gun would be my tool of choice.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:55:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
5-7's usually don't either...

View Quote


Well...so long as you don't need more than 30rds I suppose.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 8:56:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 9:03:40 PM EST by Lungbuster]
They're worthless for a prepper in my opinion. I've hit meth heads with mine as hard as I can and it didn't slow them down much. It works a bit better on sober people.

ETA: I have the shorter 21" version, doesn't get in the way as much when swinging in-doors.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:05:18 PM EST
Tire thumper.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:24:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 10:26:10 PM EST by douglasmorris99]
I have a sap and a collapsible baton in the door pocket of my truck..thinking that's about the only place I may need
such a thing at this stage of life..where I may want to get someone to get their hands of my truck, my wife, my anything
and don't feel shooting them is the correct action.


were I forced t bug out on foot, it is not attached to my go bag nor would I want to carry that weight..rather carry two more mags..
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:49:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 10:52:02 PM EST by W_E_G]
If you drive the sort of vehicle that requires that the tires be "thumped," you have equally good reason to carry a 24" breaker bar..

A 24" breaker bar can do 10x what a glorified car antenna can do, and its "not a weapon."

Who "thumps tires" with a glorified car antenna?

I had a "sap" back in the 80's.
First person I hit with it, the lead end tore through the leather like "SPROIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGGG!"
There I was. Standing there looking like an idiot with this piece of spring-steel and vibrating lead weight, and the leather part hanging off to the side.
The guy who I had just hit between the eyes with it just got madder.
He punched me in the mouth so hard that my bottom teeth cut through my lip.

Worthless POS.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:52:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 10:54:14 PM EST by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By W_E_G:
If you drive the sort of vehicle that requires that the tires be "thumped," you have equally good reason to carry a 24" breaker bar..

A 24" breaker bar can do 10x what a glorified car antenna can do, and its "not a weapon."

Who "thumps tires" with a glorified car antenna?
View Quote



Why, Sheeple Preppers!!!

Thumping mine now!




Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:56:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
I have a sap and a collapsible baton in the door pocket of my truck..thinking that's about the only place I may need
such a thing at this stage of life..where I may want to get someone to get their hands of my truck, my wife, my anything
and don't feel shooting them is the correct action.


were I forced t bug out on foot, it is not attached to my go bag nor would I want to carry that weight..rather carry two more mags..
View Quote




Might be illegal, a mag light might be a bit safer legally...

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:56:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By W_E_G:
If you drive the sort of vehicle that requires that the tires be "thumped," you have equally good reason to carry a 24" breaker bar..

A 24" breaker bar can do 10x what a glorified car antenna can do, and its "not a weapon."

Who "thumps tires" with a glorified car antenna?

I had a "sap" back in the 80's.
First person I hit with it, the lead end tore through the leather like "SPROIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGGG!"
There I was. Standing there looking like an idiot with this piece of spring-steel and vibrating lead weight, and the leather part hanging off to the side.
The guy who I had just hit between the eyes with it just got madder.
He punched me in the mouth so hard that my bottom teeth cut through my lip.

Worthless POS.
View Quote



Mine wasn't...



Link Posted: 1/11/2015 11:20:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 11:31:16 PM EST by Murooka]
No. As a prepper I'm not trying to subdue and restrain someone. I will not carry one.

As former .mil and corrections, and current security I have considerable training behind one. I would still rather go pepperspray. Distance is your friend. Not having to go hands-on cuts down on injuries, something you may not have the luxury of getting treated in a survival situation.

If you still feel the need to have one, get something solid, like a tire thumper or SOLID expandable baton (most are hollow). In a WROL/SHTF situation, if you have to use it, you want to end it quickly, violently, and decisively.

If you know an outfit in your area that does formal baton training, I recommend you invest some time and money in that if you decide you want to carry one.

Link Posted: 1/12/2015 10:55:56 AM EST
Was trained on the ASP and carried it for several years. Used it a couple times, not very good results. PR-24 (side handle baton) MUCH better for me. PR-24 and pepper spray were the best less-lethal for me. Got to deploy a tazer once before I retired. Neat!
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 11:28:47 AM EST
I don't believe in using less lethal devices unless you have someone with a firearm, not engaged backing you up. Basically, they are worthless to us civilians.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 11:40:17 AM EST


Don't want to get that close.

"Pistol Close" is close enough.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 12:21:15 PM EST
You can't always shoot people that need shooting. Depending on your state laws, you may be able to pepper spray an aggressive individual that is not "life threatening". I'm a true believer in pepper spray. One of my retirement gifts was a plaque with a can of pepper spray mounted on it!
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 12:45:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sarge22:

.....One of my retirement gifts was a plaque with a can of pepper spray mounted on it!
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Uhhhhhh.....O.K.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 12:50:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2015 12:51:26 PM EST by Johnny_C]

I am a civilian with no LE background.
Just an ordinary patriot with a family,
working to keep them fed, warm, dry &
happy.

I have an ASP but I haven't carried it in years.
I have intended for sometime to by a small
pepper spray for EDC, but I haven't done that
yet.

I carry one or two firearms alot.

But I read an article many years ago
with this quote:

"If all you have is a hammer, everthing
is going to look like a nail.

In my opinion, non-lethal options are
valid EDC for us ordinary types & I
also believe that than an Asp is more
tolerated for non-LEO that an slap jack.

John

Link Posted: 1/12/2015 1:58:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:




Might be illegal, a mag light might be a bit safer legally...

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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
I have a sap and a collapsible baton in the door pocket of my truck..thinking that's about the only place I may need
such a thing at this stage of life..where I may want to get someone to get their hands of my truck, my wife, my anything
and don't feel shooting them is the correct action.


were I forced t bug out on foot, it is not attached to my go bag nor would I want to carry that weight..rather carry two more mags..




Might be illegal, a mag light might be a bit safer legally...




it is illegalfycj+=>%#@kin Austin Progressives..
in Tejas 2.0 you need to be "trained" to beat some lowlife in the head with a stick...
BUT...
over 60, dont' care, send me to jail..get my teeth fixed and some new glasses..
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 2:01:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sarge22:
You can't always shoot people that need shooting. Depending on your state laws, you may be able to pepper spray an aggressive individual that is not "life threatening". I'm a true believer in pepper spray. One of my retirement gifts was a plaque with a can of pepper spray mounted on it!
View Quote


thuglets and wannabes tend to spray each other with it..and in some states you need to be licensed to even own a can and if there's a wind.
you're sprayed too...



but not BEAR SPRAY which is on my wife's side of the truck and pilot..


thinking I may have to pick up my grandson his new beta sized aluminum bat..
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 2:31:21 PM EST
I'll pass. Talk to those that have actually seen and used an ASP in action. The results often vary widely.
An ASP is nothing more than a hollow tube of aluminum. Hit someone/something hard enough with it and it will bend/jam/break.

Link Posted: 1/12/2015 2:33:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
I've always been intrigued by them. But other than quieting knocking someone out or killing them, there's not really any other use for them. So I could never justify adding them as part of any gear set.

Now if you're in LE/Security they may serve a role for you. But for the rest of us NOT in those professions....anyone have one or several as part of their gear, whether it's EDC, BOB, GHB, etc.?

Thanks

-Emt1581
View Quote


How do think bludgeoning someone to death with a metal stick is going to be quiet?
Johnny Victim may have a few words to say as you rain blows down on him.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 2:38:33 PM EST
I own one, but I do not believe that they are legal to carry in my state. I kept it in my truck for a while, in case I needed to break out a window. I don't know where it is now.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 3:07:43 PM EST
I have one in each truck console.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 3:13:19 PM EST
fuck ASP...its all about the Monadock :D
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 3:29:35 PM EST
Years back I had an ASP back when I had a duty belt for work. I sold off all of my duty belt including holster and gun.
I upgraded to a more concealable gun but one thing I missed was the ASP.
This last year I picked up a 21" Electroless ASP mainly for nostalgia but it is kept in a handy place just in-case.
My kid on the other hand has a Louisville Slugger that she keeps with grip tape on it, she says it will grip better when all covered in blood.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 6:09:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By zirkdog:

How do think bludgeoning someone to death with a metal stick is going to be quiet?
Johnny Victim may have a few words to say as you rain blows down on him.
View Quote


A loose substitution for a human skull is a coconut. Buy 2 of them.

Take a steel pipe and hit one as hard as you can until you can see the milk/water.

Then back up, draw and shoot the second one.

Which was louder?...Significantly louder or just barely?

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 6:13:04 PM EST
Coconuts don't yell
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 6:24:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Coconuts don't yell
View Quote


Neither does a person if they are unconscious.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 7:05:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2015 7:06:18 PM EST by zirkdog]
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


Neither does a person if they are unconscious.

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Coconuts don't yell


Neither does a person if they are unconscious.

-Emt1581


Assuming you can sneak up to within 26" of said person...who is guaranteed to drop like a sack of potatoes without complaint on the first hit.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 7:09:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By zirkdog:

Assuming you can sneak up to within 26" of said person...who is guaranteed to drop like a sack of potatoes without complaint on the first hit.
View Quote


Oh I'm not saying there's any guarantee. But I've seen enough people knocked out by blows to the head to know it'd be a better than average chance. My only point was that a striking tool is typically going to be quieter to employ than a gun.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 7:52:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FreeBear:


Uhhhhhh.....O.K.
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Originally Posted By FreeBear:
Originally Posted By sarge22:

.....One of my retirement gifts was a plaque with a can of pepper spray mounted on it!


Uhhhhhh.....O.K.




Well...

Better than a plaque with 87 dogs with a diagonal line thru each...





Link Posted: 1/12/2015 7:55:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zirkdog:
I'll pass. Talk to those that have actually seen and used an ASP in action. The results often vary widely.
An ASP is nothing more than a hollow tube of aluminum. Hit someone/something hard enough with it and it will bend/jam/break.

View Quote




Aluminum??????


Link Posted: 1/12/2015 8:12:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2015 8:13:40 PM EST by zirkdog]
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:




Aluminum??????


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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By zirkdog:
I'll pass. Talk to those that have actually seen and used an ASP in action. The results often vary widely.
An ASP is nothing more than a hollow tube of aluminum steel. Hit someone/something hard enough with it and it will bend/jam/break.





Aluminum??????




Learn something new each day.
Given the weight and a tendency to bend/jam when used aggressively on punching bags and training pads, I ASSumed aluminum.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 8:45:05 PM EST
Pretty sure asp has steel and aluminum models. Regular and ultra light...
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 8:58:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
I've always been intrigued by them. But other than quieting knocking someone out or killing them, there's not really any other use for them. So I could never justify adding them as part of any gear set.

Now if you're in LE/Security they may serve a role for you. But for the rest of us NOT in those professions....anyone have one or several as part of their gear, whether it's EDC, BOB, GHB, etc.?

Thanks

-Emt1581
View Quote


If you hit someone hard enough in the head to render them unconscious you have as great of a chance of killing them. If you are anything less than perfect with the blow they are going to scream bloody murder and likely begin to attack you, who is well inside their reach, and even if they go lights out there is no way to know how long, from a fraction of a second to a minute or two if they will wake up. In most states it is a weapon so carries the same prohibitions to carry, except knocking someone upside the head would likely be harder to defend in court unless it was the only thing you had available.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 9:00:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
I've always been intrigued by them. But other than quieting knocking someone out or killing them, there's not really any other use for them. So I could never justify adding them as part of any gear set.

Now if you're in LE/Security they may serve a role for you. But for the rest of us NOT in those professions....anyone have one or several as part of their gear, whether it's EDC, BOB, GHB, etc.?

Thanks

-Emt1581
View Quote



Striking instruments are illegal to carry on your person. I have been trained on them in my work in corrections but my current agency does not authorize them . They are a great force mulitiplier in my opinion and aren't just for knocking people out or killing them.

Planned strikes to major muscle groups are VERY effective at taking an opponent out of the game without completely knocking them unconscious or killing them.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 9:22:10 PM EST
lol, no.
Link Posted: 1/12/2015 9:43:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 9:42:33 AM EST
There's a big difference between striking someone in the "green" zones, who is resisting arrest and someone attacking you. I've hit a few people with a 21",(green zone) they still put up a hell of a fight. If you're hitting the red zone in some fantasy scenario and are fairly strong, it will do the job...but anything will do the job.

Thread gets self defense, sentry removal, etc all jumbled up. Learn how to ground fight and punch effectively, that's where the vast majority encounters end, then build on that skill. Too many people collect Macgyver crap and are weak. Strength can make up for an inferior club or the time it takes for spray to start taking its toll.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 2:47:32 PM EST
I have two and have trained to use them. I know I could use more practice or training but they can be a really good "less lethal" option that is pocket concealable. OC is always my preference ICW a firearm.
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