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Posted: 6/16/2007 10:47:55 PM EDT
Imagine a scenario where you and your family have bugged out and you are now at your BOL.

In pre-planning for this event, there are a lot of scenarios that could happen and that you need to plan for.

I think all of us are gun owners here, so of course, we imagine a fire fight where we need to use our guns to defend our families against MZB's.

But there is a large segment of us that have trouble moving past this single scenario. They go and buy all the latest tacti-cool gear and equipment and guns in order to survive this fire fight. Some even go and buy body armor and night vision goggles to enhance their fighting ability. All of this is well and good.

Except that it is only well and good if it fits within an overall plan.

And in any plan, regardless of what happens, you are going to have to eat. Yes, you may save the day and protect your family from MZB's in an afternoon. But if you don't have food stored to feed your familly that night, and ever meal afterwards, you've failed.

Please buy food. It's cheap. A lot cheaper than ammo. If you have 12 AR15's, that's cool. I'm sure that you enjoy shooting each and every one of them. But if you sold even a basic model, you could probably get 800 bucks for it. 800 bucks could easily buy you a years worth of food for two people.

And regardless of what happens, as I said, we are all going to need to eat. It's guaranteed.

A firefight in the middle of a bug-out isnt.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:28:04 AM EDT
Toyotaman nailed it guns without food is like a car without gas, you just don't get very far. But in defense of the Rambo mentality it is easy to train with firearms both formally and competitively and you can practice bugging out every time you camp or head for the hills to hunt and fish but practice long term bugging out at a BOL is not so easy. And to be honest most people who think like us that I know don't train enough on the firearms and bugging out so long term is really not going to happen.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 1:19:10 AM EDT
It's funny - I was just discussing this with my wife this evening. We have several cases of MREs that she was wanting to give away/throw out. Our conversation went on for about an hour about food in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation.

Good post...
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:12:39 AM EDT


BAH your lying,,,,
im gonna use my carbine and multicam everyday and i WILL SURVIVE....food is out there,,, i can hunt,,,,even though i dont now,,i can fish,,even though ive never tried before now, i can hump my 7500 CI molle BOB 30 miles a day,,eventhoughi only walk 1.5 total all day from my desk to car....
i can farm and grow food from my walmart seeds, even though i have never done it before......
i will survive, have you not heard..
its MINDSET
not what skills you have or gear or preps
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:36:58 AM EDT
That is why we DON'T plan on bugging out. The way I look at it, If we have to bug out its got to bad very very bad and guns will probably be involved. it will take a pretty shitty mess to get us to leave where we live. the only thing I can foresee is radioactive fallout, or fire. We are high up and far away from big cities so no flood or roaming refugee worries, Plenty of self-replcating food sources (hunting, fishing, gardening), we are 90% setup to be completely self-sufficient (heat, power, water, food and medical). Do we need to consider a bugout option? Yes... Is it likely to happen? No. Are we prepared to bugout if needed? Yes but, for us, we have been forunate enough to have the resources to put together a great bug-in location...
KDX
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:17:51 AM EDT
My plan includes a short bug in to see what is the best course of action and then if needed a bug out to the BOL. I have nearly a years worth of preps there with 10 acres of hidden farmland to farm with. I have prepared to have long term storage of crops by using canning the crops I can raise. You need to have at least enough food to last you until you start to harvest. There is fishing within a couple of miles and quite a bit of wildlife to eat to augment the food. My tactic is not go guns blazing multicam goodness during bug out, but rather to keep a very low profile to the BOL. I have driven the location out and have at least 3 routes mapped that does not use the highway system. All backroads. Yes it doubles my time to get there, but there will be less resistance avoiding the interstates and state highways. As the previous poster said MINDSET.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:36:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:04:04 AM EDT
Toyotaman is just repeating the constant message of this forum. Get prepared and make sure you have food stored away. His reminder is a good one. But I originally signed on to AR15, because this is a gunboard. And guns and gear is why we are all here.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:14:17 AM EDT
HA. Good post. My family and I went on a rafting trip down the Green River in Utah once. I had planned on catching lots of fish to feed us, so I pretty much only brought condiments and stuff to go with them. Not too smart on my part because the fish were smarter than I was. We could see them, but not catch them. Handgranades may have worked. We starved for 4 days before the pickup point downstream and my family still makes fun of me for that trip.LOL
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:17:46 AM EDT
In an old Life magazine, there was a picture of a family of four, standing in front of all the food that the typical such family consumes in one year.

It was a sobering photograph.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:37:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 7:14:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
For a SHTF event I'm just going to turtle up and wait the week or few it takes the country to heal.

For TEOTWAWKI I'd have to travel to better hunting and fish lands. There are rather large cattle, sheep, and pig farms just to the east of me and huge chicken ranches (?) to the northeast. Depending on the "event" those animals are going to be loose and need hunting down.



I would suggest bringing something for trade. Such as vegtables or other comodities that they may need as they have lots of meat, but nothing to make bread or vegies and fruit. I am going to be on a dairy farm and anything of value like food or fuel will be good for trading for meat, cheese, and butter.

The reality is those places might be looted early on. That is why I prepare with lots and lots of guns and ammo, but food is higher priority for sure.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:08:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
In an old Life magazine, there was a picture of a family of four, standing in front of all the food that the typical such family consumes in one year.

It was a sobering photograph.


I'd like to see that picture. And then show it to my girlfriend.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:09:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
For a SHTF event I'm just going to turtle up and wait the week or few it takes the country to heal.

For TEOTWAWKI I'd have to travel to better hunting and fish lands. There are rather large cattle, sheep, and pig farms just to the east of me and huge chicken ranches (?) to the northeast. Depending on the "event" those animals are going to be loose and need hunting down.


You really think it will only take a couple weeks ?? The more I think about it the more I think it will be way longer........The genius folks on washington have packed everything into dc metro area......I really do believe its a matter of time before the radical muslim get atleast one or two truck nukes into the country. they take out DC and itll be a mess for a long time.......no command and control due to everything being there.....fema gone...(OK OK not such a big loss) pres/vise pres gone.....congress gone(ok ill have a party at my house on that one) IRS , Social security, medicare, joint cheifs, all gone. The more I think the more I fear it. I think itll take a year and thats if noone take advantage of the situation and invades. I really believe we need to strive to be able to survive a year on our own....Hope this was somewhat coherant...on pain killers/muscle relaxers, threw my back out
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 9:24:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By protus:


BAH your lying,,,,
im gonna use my carbine and multicam everyday and i WILL SURVIVE....food is out there,,, i can hunt,,,,even though i dont now,,i can fish,,even though ive never tried before now, i can hump my 7500 CI molle BOB 30 miles a day,,eventhoughi only walk 1.5 total all day from my desk to car....
i can farm and grow food from my walmart seeds, even though i have never done it before......
i will survive, have you not heard..
its MINDSET
not what skills you have or gear or preps


Now why did you have to go ruining peoples plans with reality? You're a bad clown. No red nose for you!
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 4:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 4:51:52 PM EDT by xtremist]
Heh, last week I was talking to a coworker who just couldn't understand why I'm into guns and such sooo much. They just didn't think it's very likely I'd ever need to use one. All I said was something to the effect, "I hope you're right and I can certainly appreciate your optimistic view. However, I deal with reality, and the reality is if I ever DO need a firearm, you can bet I'll be glad I was prepared." This really shook her up and I think made her a bit offended. *Sigh* The same applies to prep's of ALL sorts, not just guns.

EDIT: I also mentioned how you really need to take yourself out of your own set or morals and consider the very low-life scum of our society and what THEY are willing to do. Not just for food, but even just for a watch they like, or the car you're driving. You can feel all your neighbors are great upstanding citizens, but that will only get you so far, especially when it hits the fan. But maybe we're all wrong... right? Maybe when everyone is starving and has no currency or useful skills we'll all be out there singing and laughing together. Maybe... :)
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 4:54:04 PM EDT
Well like everything in life, balance is important. All things in moderation you know.

If you buy nothing but the guns that got the coolest writeup in SOF and the hotest (current) piece of codura fabric and do nothing to feed your family, you will die.

If you do nothing but put food back and have no skill with weapons, tactics or are in no shape to do anything other than shoot from one position your probably going to die also.

The overall point is moderation and balance. "Well rounded" shouldn't mean that you carry your food supply on your person (in others being fat), Well rounded should mean your squared away in most aspects of your preps and skills, not concentrating on one to the detriment of others.

There is an uncertainity that you will get into a firefight every day after a disaster- especially if you planned worth a crap and got a good ways away from the cites.

There IS certainity that you will have to eat everyday, or close thereof.

My opinion-

If you don't have at least a year supply of the basics-

1. You don't need 2 assault rifles per person and child.
2. You don't need 10,000 rounds per weapon
3. You don't need a $3,000. NVG set
4. You shouldn't pay $500.00 for a piece of gear where a $50. version of it will do as good.
5. You should put absolutely no money into gold or silver. You can't eat it. I know, let the flaming begin...

Now, where does my "opinion" on this come from- living off my food storage SOLELY for the better part of a year. Currently using food storage plus fresh fruits, veg, meat we grow ourselves for 95% of our source of food. Having a LONG period of a personal "economic downturn" in my life wherein I had to essentially develop an income from scratch, living "on the land" for close to 8 years now working towards self-sufficiency (i.e, learning how much it takes to get remotely close to feeding yourself through your own sweat). So this isn't the rant of an keyboard commando that is all talk and no walk. That being said, take it for what you will.

FWIW, I had about 100 weapons right before Y2K, I'm down to a small fraction of that number now. Why? Didn't need them for one, I'm not a "collector" all my guns had better damn function correctly or they are GONE. Even during the time I had so many, my preps were still in balance. I was planning to feed 12 people for a considerable length of time not measured in months. Preps also included land, housing, AE, etc.

So again, do all things in BALANCE. The all guns "wannabe contractor" guys are likely going to starve or be killed trying to loot and the no guns, let's be hippies and do nothing but raise food types are going to be taken over by the wannabe contractor types.

The one that will make it will be the ones that are able to do some degree of self-supporting AND aggressively and actively defend what they have, just MO.

Lowdown3
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:00:01 PM EDT
Great reminder, keep prepping food, meds, toothpaste, etc. Try to make a list of everything you consume in 1 month, then triple that, and that's a good start. I just try to double up everytime I go to Costco while keeping the same frequency of trips there. Preps build up pretty quick that way, expensive, but quick.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:22:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Well like everything in life, balance is important. All things in moderation you know.

If you buy nothing but the guns that got the coolest writeup in SOF and the hotest (current) piece of codura fabric and do nothing to feed your family, you will die.

If you do nothing but put food back and have no skill with weapons, tactics or are in no shape to do anything other than shoot from one position your probably going to die also.

The overall point is moderation and balance. "Well rounded" shouldn't mean that you carry your food supply on your person (in others being fat), Well rounded should mean your squared away in most aspects of your preps and skills, not concentrating on one to the detriment of others.

There is an uncertainity that you will get into a firefight every day after a disaster- especially if you planned worth a crap and got a good ways away from the cites.

There IS certainity that you will have to eat everyday, or close thereof.

My opinion-

If you don't have at least a year supply of the basics-

1. You don't need 2 assault rifles per person and child.
2. You don't need 10,000 rounds per weapon
3. You don't need a $3,000. NVG set
4. You shouldn't pay $500.00 for a piece of gear where a $50. version of it will do as good.
5. You should put absolutely no money into gold or silver. You can't eat it. I know, let the flaming begin...

Now, where does my "opinion" on this come from- living off my food storage SOLELY for the better part of a year. Currently using food storage plus fresh fruits, veg, meat we grow ourselves for 95% of our source of food. Having a LONG period of a personal "economic downturn" in my life wherein I had to essentially develop an income from scratch, living "on the land" for close to 8 years now working towards self-sufficiency (i.e, learning how much it takes to get remotely close to feeding yourself through your own sweat). So this isn't the rant of an keyboard commando that is all talk and no walk. That being said, take it for what you will.

FWIW, I had about 100 weapons right before Y2K, I'm down to a small fraction of that number now. Why? Didn't need them for one, I'm not a "collector" all my guns had better damn function correctly or they are GONE. Even during the time I had so many, my preps were still in balance. I was planning to feed 12 people for a considerable length of time not measured in months. Preps also included land, housing, AE, etc.

So again, do all things in BALANCE. The all guns "wannabe contractor" guys are likely going to starve or be killed trying to loot and the no guns, let's be hippies and do nothing but raise food types are going to be taken over by the wannabe contractor types.

The one that will make it will be the ones that are able to do some degree of self-supporting AND aggressively and actively defend what they have, just MO.

Lowdown3

I'd have to take issue with the NVG's.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:55:58 PM EDT
I don't really have any tacticool gear, just a couple of GHB's for the wife and I. I also have a carbine and hand gun for both. A thousand or so rounds of ammo for each and reloading stuff if and when needed.
The one thing we have spent many hours on is planning our food stores. We have made sure there is a balance of veggies, fruit, starches and canned meat of different varities. We eat what we store, we rotate our stock and we can bug in for a year even if we don't or can't do a garden.
We have med supplies and sanitary items also.
I am not saying that we have all the bases covered but I think we are pretty close.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 5:58:17 PM EDT
keep in mind that having the right kind of food is important. I can't remember where I read it, but people who stock up on foods that they do not normally eat may find themselves very ill after about 2 weeks, because their body cannot properly cope with the such a sudden and dramatic change in their regular diet and they get sick. The recommendation was that in order to be prepared, you should include some of your survival foods/diet into your regular eating habits so that your body is prepared to handle that type of food/diet.... Without doing so, it could impact how long you stay healthy and that could ultimately impact your chances for survival during a stressful event.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snubfan:
keep in mind that having the right kind of food is important. I can't remember where I read it, but people who stock up on foods that they do not normally eat may find themselves very ill after about 2 weeks, because their body cannot properly cope with the such a sudden and dramatic change in their regular diet and they get sick. The recommendation was that in order to be prepared, you should include some of your survival foods/diet into your regular eating habits so that your body is prepared to handle that type of food/diet.... Without doing so, it could impact how long you stay healthy and that could ultimately impact your chances for survival during a stressful event.


The adage you are looking for is, "store what you eat, eat what you store." If you do this, you'll not have any of the problems associated with eating unfamiliar foods and you'll also constantly rotate the food storage so that it is fresh.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:03:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:07:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 6:08:43 PM EDT by allenNH]
I will bug IN. Unless some total shitstorm occurs where we are invaded by an actual organized ground army (not talking about the illegals here), or somehow hell does freeze over and the zombies are running loose, I'm not going any damn where.

Once the initial shock and awe wear off, along with the post-event crime spree, I've got no need to be anywhere but here. If it gets SO bad that it is simply not viable to stay, then it's so bad that any plan I could come up with to deal with it would be insufficient, and likely require more resources than I have -- beyond the "pack up the camping stuff, sling a rifle, and start walking/driving away."
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:52:26 PM EDT
What is a "ghb"?

thanks,
Spence
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 6:57:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spence:
What is a "ghb"?

thanks,
Spence

get home bag
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:47:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 8:49:04 PM EDT by Tarsus]

Originally Posted By Paul:
Katrina is the worse the nations been hit with in 50 years or so. Despite what the liberals would have you belive it wasn't that bad for those who could take care of themselves before the hurricane hit.

There's a better than likely chance that we'll see another terrorist attack in the next few years. I'm not a betting man but have concidered that following the election of some panzy-ass liberal from New York or Illinois we're going to see a few hundred of the several hundred terrorist cells pop-off. I don't think it's going to be as big as a nuke but you can bet it's going to be ever as effective. I figure the power grid, food system, a bunch of schools. shopping malls, and industrial parks will be hit killing thousands in the worse way.

I was puzzled as to why we didn't see any follow-up attacks following 9-11-01 and came to the conclusion that Mohamad didn't like the coyboy sending troops to the motherland. Better wait out for the democrats to swallow the propaganda hook, line, and sinker before acting again.

Reagan had it right - it's a war of wills and we're going to lose that every single time.


+1 As stated in other topics, I got out of NOLA realitively unscathed, but just barely and it took ALL my resources. The CHICOMS are bulding a 2nd nuke carrier, the RUSCOMS are designing new ICBMs, all of Central America wants to take what we've got and the Jihadis are making nice-nice with all of them. We've got more enemys than we can handle and don't have the political will to nuke them before they get us. Must be what the Romans felt like. I'm guessing I've got 18 months to get back where I was, I just hope that's enough time. If not, . . . well just make sure my headstone doesn't say "sheeple".
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 5:02:59 AM EDT
I was puzzled as to why we didn't see any follow-up attacks following 9-11-01"

Well if you look at just what the GUBMINT AND THE MEDIA called "terrorist attacks" there have been none.

However within a month we have the anthrax "incident" (I guess the media feels if you call it an "isolated incident" instead of an attack, then everythings o.k.) which KILLED 11 PEOPLE at least (from early TV reports), we had the muj shooting up LAX specifically the EL Al ticket counter, you had a junior taliban kid in Florida run a small plane into a building in Tampa IIRC, early the next summer you had a "mysterious" power grid failure that was found to be caused by some remote stations having problems, you had Sgt. Ackbar or whatever the hell his name was rolling grenades into people's tents near the start of the Iraq war- mind you it didn't happen in the U.S. but still islamic terrorism IMO, you had the two BLACK MUSLIMS that did the sniping spree in and around DC that the media was sure was going to turn out to be two disgruntled white rednecks with no hair.... You had the whole Jose Padilla deal with the radiological weapon, you had NUMEROUS train derailments in the Southeast summer of 02.

Pay attention to this next statement-

The gubmint and the 4th estate learned a valuable lesson in the month after 9/11. When they were constantly showing the terror attacks, discussing all the bad things that could happen next- PEOPLE WERE NOT GOING TO THE MALLS, WALMART, ETC. SPENDING THERE MONEY! The economy was suffering bigtime! Remember this is when GM and the others came out with the 0% financing crap? There was a reason for that.

Within a month the whole story changed. Instead of imminent germ warfare and pictures of the twin towers smoldering, it was back to Paris Hilton and fluffy stories of marshmallows and candyland dreams. The GDP turned off the news and went back to overspending.

So now they have a VESTED INTEREST (keeping the economy going) to downplay ANY act that happens. I really think all this will do is embolded the muj's and lead to a spectactular attack that NO ONE can call an "isolated incident."

Now for the lesson- since we've seen how the media and gubmint will manipulate the news- do you REALLY think you are going to be able to catch the ques to bug out from them? Exactly....
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 5:49:46 AM EDT
Excellent post. May make some reassess their priorities or at least consider doing so. I for one plan to bug in -UNLESS we're forced out by a situation beyond our control - chemical spill or a nuke attack too close to survive. Main thing is to have back up plans and be flexible as needed. We actually have a BO location to go to but for now that would be plan B.
For those that plan to BO I believe unless you either get a head start or are able to leave after a major exodus, traffic grid lock may foil your plans. Look at the evacuations in the sourthern states before anticipated storms. What a PITA!
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 6:18:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2007 6:24:21 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 7:32:35 AM EDT
GHB is BOB little brother
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 7:41:34 AM EDT
Well, threads like this remind me why I plan on bugging in unless the house is on fire or there's a chemical spill upwind.

Don't misunderstand me. I have my bug out gear ready to go at a moment's notice. It's just that my family's survival probability goes way up as long as we can stay home and enjoy the stored food, stored water, shelter, etc.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 10:48:27 AM EDT
In addition to thinking about the time after the bugout, you might also want to do some planning for any time you might have to spend before bugging out too(that's IF you have to bugout at all). It might be years before you ever need to bugout and that's a LOT of time to be running without a plan.
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