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Posted: 8/7/2011 8:28:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 12:36:54 AM EDT by AR15Texan]
Being inspired by several Top Gear adventure specials I want to do a BOV project where you get to decide what I buy and how to outfit it.  The rules are simple a $5,500 budget (vehicle, repairs, upgrades, accessories, title, tax, and 6-months insurance), no salvaged or wrecked, and it must have 4-wheel drive.

I would prefer to have the seller within 50 miles of DFW 7-Five-oh-seventy-five zip code so I can check out the vehicle but willing to buy sight unseen if you can check it out personally and report back with photos.  The cost of vehicle shipment will come out from the $5.5k budget.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:
$3k for the vehicle
$575 for tax (TX 5-1/2%), title, and insurance
$1,900 for repairs, tires, upgrades, winch, jerry cans, etc.

But in the end you decide Arfcom,  I will have a poll for each stage of major purchases so you can vote.  Then I will take it on some adventures to see how we did.  I better get some AAA too.

Have at it.

08-08-2011:  First poll: Select Body Style
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 8:32:24 PM EDT
What exactly is a "BUV?
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 8:42:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
What exactly is a "BUV?


A typo, I was thinking BOV SUV.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 9:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2011 9:31:04 PM EDT by thebrassnuckles]
thats not that big of a budget, but it can be done.

Im into my 4runner for 4500 and I still has a stripped interior and no lockers or sweet bumpers. off road tires are one of the most important, and expensive parts. I dropped 1400 on 5x 32x15" tires

Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:07:04 PM EDT
How about some info? How many people do you want to fit? How far do you have to BO? Mileage? Towing? etc?
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:19:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By caduckgunner:
How about some info? How many people do you want to fit? How far do you have to BO? Mileage? Towing? etc?


Two people, several hundred miles to get out of metro DFW.  Towing for non emergencies would be nice but if bugging-out won't be towing anything.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:22:02 PM EDT
I've been searching vehicles under $3,000 on AutoTrader and it looks like Blazers, Cherokee's, and Pathfinders mostly.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:29:08 PM EDT
Suggestion, check auctions (estate/moving).  I picked up a 91 chevy cheyenne 4wd for 800 + new engine & fuel pump total around 3k.  Tires were good it has a topper (lift out side windows-one broken) and tool/ladder rack.  The v6 sucks for towing or steep grades but it gets 14 miles to the gallon with a 30 gallon tank.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:40:14 PM EDT
This is a nice project idea, but I think you are leaving a lot out of your specifications.  



From Dallas you are more than a day's drive from the trails in Utah or Pennsylvania.



For this to be an effective project it would be better to get a little better specifications.



Like:

>Are you prepared to do your own labor for repair and mods?

>How many seats must this BOV have?

>Do you intend for this to be a daily driver, or driveway queen?

>Do you intend for this uber-rockcrawling-mudbogging BOV to safely and quickly drive the 1000 miles of interstate highway to get to Moab, or do you want a trailer queen?

>What trailer towing ability must this BOV have?

>Does this BOV need to have a diesel engine?



If you cannot do your own labor for repair then your maintenance budget is much too small.

If you want a rock crawler or mud bogger, then you may have to deal with very poor road character.

If you want to haul more than 5 people for long distances, then you may not be getting a diesel on your budget.

If you absitively posiloutely must have a BOV that says Jeep, then I can almost promise you that there is no diesel in your budget.

If you must have a diesel, then I can also tell 2 things based on your budget. 1) If you need to haul people, then get used to going 55mph.  2) If you want to go faster than 55 on your budget, then don't plan on having any family or friends along because you'll have a 2 seater.




Originally Posted By AR15Texan:


Being inspired by several Top Gear adventure specials I want to do a BUV project where you get to decide what I buy and how to outfit it.  The rules are simple a $5,500 budget (vehicle, repairs, upgrades, accessories, title, tax, and 6-months insurance) and it must have 4-wheel drive.



I would prefer to have the seller within 50 miles of DFW 7-Five-oh-seventy-five zip code so I can check out the vehicle but willing to buy sight unseen if you can check it out personally and report back with photos.  The cost of vehicle shipment will come out from the $5.5k budget.



I'm thinking something along the lines of:

$3k for the vehicle

$575 for tax (TX 5-1/2%), title, and insurance

$1,900 for repairs, tires, upgrades, winch, jerry cans, etc.



But in the end you decide Arfcom,  I will have a poll for each stage of major purchases so you can vote.  Then I will take it on some adventures to see how we did.  I better get some AAA too.



Have at it.




 
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 10:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2011 11:26:26 PM EDT by PA22-400]
PM sent





ETA some links to possible BOVs





chevy pickup





possible gas hog  This one looks like a money pit





I may see rust on the rear barn door





My experience is that the small block 400 sucks gas and is weak  I say reject this one.





Moded to be cool but does it run reliably?  Possible money hog in tires too.





Dodge  Not the most fuel efficient in their class and weak transmissions.  I think this should get better mileage that the 460 Ford though.





Ford Explorer





V6 Blazer  This would be a fun BOV for 2, but if you get pregnant this rig will shrink fast.  I had an earlier body style that ran well for me until I ran the guts out of it...I put many many miles on my Blazer.





http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/2534774913.html





Here is a diesel
 
 
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 12:28:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 12:30:31 AM EDT by AR15Texan]
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
This is a nice project idea, but I think you are leaving a lot out of your specifications.  

From Dallas you are more than a day's drive from the trails in Utah or Pennsylvania.

For this to be an effective project it would be better to get a little better specifications.

Like:
>Are you prepared to do your own labor for repair and mods?  Yes, except welding and tube bending
>How many seats must this BOV have?  At least two
>Do you intend for this to be a daily driver, or driveway queen?  No, not a daily driver, but road legal
>Do you intend for this uber-rockcrawling-mudbogging BOV to safely and quickly drive the 1000 miles of interstate highway to get to Moab, or do you want a trailer queen?  No trailer queen, rockcrawling sounds like fun but I'm sure that will be way outside the budget.
>What trailer towing ability must this BOV have? Minimal, utility trailer for quad and gear
>Does this BOV need to have a diesel engine?  This is up to ARFCOM

Link Posted: 8/8/2011 12:32:23 AM EDT
I'll make the first poll:
Vehicle body type

1) Pickup truck
2) Small SUV (example: KIA Sportage)
3) Medium SUV (example Blazer)
4) Large SUV (example Suburban)
5) Car (example Subaru)
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 12:41:55 AM EDT
Whatever you get, get a diesel.  During the mess after Katrina, and the Hurricane Rita bugout, lots of service stations ran out of gas, but still had diesel.  Diesels will run on kerosene, jet fuel, mineral spirits, (Varnolene) etc.

Get a full sized diesel 4x4 pickup.  I've dragged full sized cars sideways with a full sized 4x4, something you can't do with a tiny vehicle.  Avoid computers if you can, computers and diesels don;t like each other.

Ops
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 12:43:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 12:52:49 AM EDT by AR15Texan]
I already have diesel BOV and zombie-ramming vehicle, V8 6.0L Ford Powerstroke but it is an absolute pain to work on the engine in a van.  I'm looking for something a bit more nimble and with a 4x4.

Link Posted: 8/8/2011 9:26:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15Texan:
I already have diesel BOV and zombie-ramming vehicle, V8 6.0L Ford Powerstroke but it is an absolute pain to work on the engine in a van.  I'm looking for something a bit more nimble and with a 4x4.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/AR15Texan/FordE350TurboDieselVan001.jpg


Get a Tahoe....
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 9:29:33 AM EDT



Originally Posted By AR15Texan:


I already have diesel BOV and zombie-ramming vehicle, V8 6.0L Ford Powerstroke but it is an absolute pain to work on the engine in a van.  I'm looking for something a bit more nimble and with a 4x4.



http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/AR15Texan/FordE350TurboDieselVan001.jpg



It's be more money than you are planning to spend, but if you plan on keeping the van (I would), I'd get an Excursion with the same engine. That way you know how to work on it, and have a place to readily find repair parts. Set up a tow bar, so one can pull the other.



In my last two homes, I was/am in states that tax diesel too much (NY & WA). Combining that with really cold weather starting issues, and I stepped away from diesel. The station where I'm buying gas at $3.59/gal has their diesel marked above $4.  





 
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:06:58 AM EDT
Does small truck count silverado 1500s,f-150s etc. or would that be in your large truck poll? think a 250 is to big but a tacoma or colorado is a little on the small side...maybe im just picky
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:07:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 10:27:07 AM EDT by GunnyG]





Originally Posted By Echo2:





Originally Posted By AR15Texan:


I already have diesel BOV and zombie-ramming vehicle, V8 6.0L Ford Powerstroke but it is an absolute pain to work on the engine in a van.  I'm looking for something a bit more nimble and with a 4x4.





http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/AR15Texan/FordE350TurboDieselVan001.jpg






Get a Tahoe....



The 2 door version has a kick-ass turn radius, and is lighter overall. I'd like to get one as a backup for my '94 Suburban.

















If you find a 4 door version, it won't have the length of a fullsize suburban. I like the options afforded by having the extra interior space in the Sub.  















 
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:40:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kab4485:
Does small truck count silverado 1500s,f-150s etc. or would that be in your large truck poll? think a 250 is to big but a tacoma or colorado is a little on the small side...maybe im just picky


F-150 is full-sized, large truck category.
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:45:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 10:48:32 AM EDT by AR15Texan]
Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By AR15Texan:
I already have diesel BOV and zombie-ramming vehicle, V8 6.0L Ford Powerstroke but it is an absolute pain to work on the engine in a van.  I'm looking for something a bit more nimble and with a 4x4.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/AR15Texan/FordE350TurboDieselVan001.jpg

It's be more money than you are planning to spend, but if you plan on keeping the van (I would), I'd get an Excursion with the same engine. That way you know how to work on it, and have a place to readily find repair parts. Set up a tow bar, so one can pull the other.

In my last two homes, I was/am in states that tax diesel too much (NY & WA). Combining that with really cold weather starting issues, and I stepped away from diesel. The station where I'm buying gas at $3.59/gal has their diesel marked above $4.  

 


I prefer gasoline, diesel fuel is way too expensive, diesel engine repairs are 3-4x gasoline engines, and cold weather starts suck as you mentioned.  This will be an ARFCOM decision though.  However my direct experience with diesel is to avoid it.  Most modern diesel engines are not going to last long running on alternative fuels that you just dump in the gas tank.  Much filtration and preparation is necessary to run alternatives.  I'd rather stock up on extra gasoline tanks/cans than go with a diesel.  If I have to replace one injector on the diesel engine the budget is shot.  The cost of repair costs is an important factor that should be considered hopefully this will be taken into account on voting for a vehicle.
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 1:28:59 PM EDT
97-99 4 door 4x4 Tahoe.

Bunch of interior space, room for 5 adults, decent turning radious, and excellent parts availability.
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 1:44:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ops:
Whatever you get, get a diesel.  During the mess after Katrina, and the Hurricane Rita bugout, lots of service stations ran out of gas, but still had diesel.  Diesels will run on kerosene, jet fuel, mineral spirits, (Varnolene) etc.

Get a full sized diesel 4x4 pickup.  I've dragged full sized cars sideways with a full sized 4x4, something you can't do with a tiny vehicle.  Avoid computers if you can, computers and diesels don;t like each other.

Ops


Serious question here.  On the "listening to Katrina" story he says the opposite.  Diesel was gone first because all the emergency vehicles ran on it.  Due to this and the simplicity of storing one petrol product, I am about to buy a gas BOV.

Is my thinking faulty?
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 2:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2011 2:16:10 PM EDT by PA22-400]
Get what works best for you.   Then take precautions to meet your needs if supply of your fuel is disrupted.  





You can meet your needs by:  Knowing what liquids can substitute for your fuel.  Securing fuel.  Knowing non-standard sources for your fuel.  having a membership to a fuel co-op (24 hour key card access deals).





The minimum that you should do is keep your tank half full.  See the Fuel Can Oracle for more about storing fuel.





Ops really likes diesels, and diesel meets his needs very well.  There is no diesel vehicle that meets my needs as well as the gas Suburban that I have.  Get the vehicle that meets YOUR needs best.
Originally Posted By Curry:





Originally Posted By Ops:


Whatever you get, get a diesel.  During the mess after Katrina, and the Hurricane Rita bugout, lots of service stations ran out of gas, but still had diesel.  Diesels will run on kerosene, jet fuel, mineral spirits, (Varnolene) etc.





Get a full sized diesel 4x4 pickup.  I've dragged full sized cars sideways with a full sized 4x4, something you can't do with a tiny vehicle.  Avoid computers if you can, computers and diesels don;t like each other.





Ops






Serious question here.  On the "listening to Katrina" story he says the opposite.  Diesel was gone first because all the emergency vehicles ran on it.  Due to this and the simplicity of storing one petrol product, I am about to buy a gas BOV.





Is my thinking faulty?






The Rita rodeo was because many people that were poorly prepared tried to bug out.  The roads got clogged.  Fuel got burned up.  People got stranded.  





In all of that there were some of us here on the SF that avoided the crowd.  I even know of one active SFer that took an outdoor shower in the rain of Rita.





hope this helps






ETA spelling wuz speshul
 
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 8:30:52 PM EDT
Any of the older K series GMs can be bought and built well within your budget.

Link Posted: 8/8/2011 9:27:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Curry:
Originally Posted By Ops:
Whatever you get, get a diesel.  During the mess after Katrina, and the Hurricane Rita bugout, lots of service stations ran out of gas, but still had diesel.  Diesels will run on kerosene, jet fuel, mineral spirits, (Varnolene) etc.

Get a full sized diesel 4x4 pickup.  I've dragged full sized cars sideways with a full sized 4x4, something you can't do with a tiny vehicle.  Avoid computers if you can, computers and diesels don;t like each other.

Ops


Serious question here.  On the "listening to Katrina" story he says the opposite.  Diesel was gone first because all the emergency vehicles ran on it.  Due to this and the simplicity of storing one petrol product, I am about to buy a gas BOV.

Is my thinking faulty?


Exactly.  I've heard this from other sources, as well.  Anyone needing diesel was fucked.  You can get a truck with larger fuel tanks and therefore longer range with a diesel, but you'd better not run out.  

I think your price point is going to be very difficult to maintain.  And, frankly, I still don't have a firm grasp on what your priorities are for the BOV.  People are mentioning vehicles with high capacity and the ability to tow other vehicles sideways but I don't see those as needs you've listed.  From what you've indicate it looks like tow passengers plus gear is all you'll need in terms of seating capacity, correct?  If so, then a small pickup truck like a Tacoma with a camper shell would have several advantages.  If ready access to the stuff you have stored then avoid the pickups and go with an SUV.  But, again, what size is needed?  And what capabilities?  Do you just need high clearance with the ability to surmount minor to moderate obstacles?  Or do you need a crawler capable of getting you deep off road?  

Bargains can be found out there, but it takes time and a good amount of patience.  I'm responsible for three adults, three kids, and a Rottweiler if we need to bug out so I need two capable vehicles.  I bought a high mileage Toyota Land Cruiser a few years ago for only $4500.  It now has over 275K on the OD and runs like a Swiss watch.  I had plans (and still do) to turn it into an expedition vehicle but it's still mostly stock for now due to budget priorities.  It's still plenty capable off road and offers nice space and cargo options for hauling gear or people.  The down side is the gas mileage sucks.  I only get between 12-14 MPG and that limits my range to about 300 miles per tank.  

My other BOV is a '96 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 4-cyl.  Again, I got lucky on this one and picked it up from a friend for only $1500.  It has some slight body damage on the quarter panel from where someone backed into the previous owner but mechanically it is very sound and only has 140K miles on it.  That vehicle is actually my daily driver and I'm getting about 25 MPG.  I need to get a class III trailer hitch for it and some sliders but it's just about ready for anything on road or off.  

So, all total, I have only about $6000 in two BOVs that are ultra reliable and offer plenty of options for upgrading aftermarket stuff to make them more capable.  If you're not in a rush you'll find what you're looking for.


Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:22:57 PM EDT


That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 10:34:40 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Ops:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg



That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  



The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.



Ops




Just be sure to bring a spare fuel filter and a winterizing additive. It sucks when your truck is barely running, you have neither, and it's really cold outside.







"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency told ATA the gelling problems were not directly related to the chemistry of ULSD, but admitted that some batches of ULSD may be difficult to winterize with existing cold-flow additives"








 
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 11:04:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg

That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops


Then you're choosing to ignore the other argument that has been well documented about post Katrina and other disasters.  Diesel is harder to come by.  There are trade offs with either option but there's no need to get all huffy because one of your sacred cows is getting a little toasty on the grill.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:12:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:
Originally Posted By Curry:
Originally Posted By Ops:
Whatever you get, get a diesel.  During the mess after Katrina, and the Hurricane Rita bugout, lots of service stations ran out of gas, but still had diesel.  Diesels will run on kerosene, jet fuel, mineral spirits, (Varnolene) etc.

Get a full sized diesel 4x4 pickup.  I've dragged full sized cars sideways with a full sized 4x4, something you can't do with a tiny vehicle.  Avoid computers if you can, computers and diesels don;t like each other.

Ops


Serious question here.  On the "listening to Katrina" story he says the opposite.  Diesel was gone first because all the emergency vehicles ran on it.  Due to this and the simplicity of storing one petrol product, I am about to buy a gas BOV.

Is my thinking faulty?


Exactly.  I've heard this from other sources, as well.  Anyone needing diesel was fucked.  You can get a truck with larger fuel tanks and therefore longer range with a diesel, but you'd better not run out.  

I think your price point is going to be very difficult to maintain.  And, frankly, I still don't have a firm grasp on what your priorities are for the BOV.  People are mentioning vehicles with high capacity and the ability to tow other vehicles sideways but I don't see those as needs you've listed.  From what you've indicate it looks like tow passengers plus gear is all you'll need in terms of seating capacity, correct?  If so, then a small pickup truck like a Tacoma with a camper shell would have several advantages.  If ready access to the stuff you have stored then avoid the pickups and go with an SUV.  But, again, what size is needed?  And what capabilities?  Do you just need high clearance with the ability to surmount minor to moderate obstacles?  Or do you need a crawler capable of getting you deep off road?  

Bargains can be found out there, but it takes time and a good amount of patience.  I'm responsible for three adults, three kids, and a Rottweiler if we need to bug out so I need two capable vehicles.  I bought a high mileage Toyota Land Cruiser a few years ago for only $4500.  It now has over 275K on the OD and runs like a Swiss watch.  I had plans (and still do) to turn it into an expedition vehicle but it's still mostly stock for now due to budget priorities.  It's still plenty capable off road and offers nice space and cargo options for hauling gear or people.  The down side is the gas mileage sucks.  I only get between 12-14 MPG and that limits my range to about 300 miles per tank.  

My other BOV is a '96 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 4-cyl.  Again, I got lucky on this one and picked it up from a friend for only $1500.  It has some slight body damage on the quarter panel from where someone backed into the previous owner but mechanically it is very sound and only has 140K miles on it.  That vehicle is actually my daily driver and I'm getting about 25 MPG.  I need to get a class III trailer hitch for it and some sliders but it's just about ready for anything on road or off.  

So, all total, I have only about $6000 in two BOVs that are ultra reliable and offer plenty of options for upgrading aftermarket stuff to make them more capable.  If you're not in a rush you'll find what you're looking for.




Minimum two people and a 4x4.  I'll let ARFCOM deliberate diesel/gas.  I own a V8 diesel BOV van right now see above.  I don't think it is a wise choice.  Anything goes wrong with a diesel motor and the repair cost will more than likely deplete my budget.  Everything else you ask is up to ARFCOM to decide.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:44:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 7:47:13 AM EDT by Boomer]
Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:
Originally Posted By Ops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg

That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops


Then you're choosing to ignore the other argument that has been well documented about post Katrina and other disasters.  Diesel is harder to come by.  There are trade offs with either option but there's no need to get all huffy because one of your sacred cows is getting a little toasty on the grill.


If it is so well documented, could you please cite some references and provide some links? Also, what phase of the event are we talking about? The initial evacuation or the recovery effort? During the intitial evacuation, it would seem that hih demand for gas would quickly exhaust supply while relatively lower demand for diesel would make it more available. Remember, vast fleets of emergency vehicles and equipment are not yet in operation. I could understand that well into the recovery effort diesel powered equipment may be consuming large quantities of that fuel.

I think it is rather well established that when the evacuation/stampeding starts, gasoline, being the predominant fuel of the masses by far, is one of the first things to disappear.

Locally, I have personally seen gas start to become scarce while diesel was widely available when severe weather and subsequent road conditions prevented fuel trucks from making regular deliveries to service stations and/or refinery issues limited production. For example: Cold weather and a fire at the Anacortes refinery cut into Snohomish County supplies.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:54:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By Ops:
The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.


Just be sure to bring a spare fuel filter and a winterizing additive. It sucks when your truck is barely running, you have neither, and it's really cold outside.


That has not been a problem for me here in Washington, whether in Snohomish, Spokane, Kennewick, Stevens Pass, Tamarack Springs, etc. The Cummins engines have very good cold weather starting performance.

And I think it would be wise to have a spare parts, to include fuel filters, available regardless of what fuel your vehicle happens to be powered by.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 2:52:02 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Ops:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg



That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  



The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.



Ops




I've never had a problem starting my diesel in the cold (w/ treated fuel) either.  Lowest I've seen w/ it is -25F.  It grunted, shook, rattled, and rolled for a few min, but it fired up.



-Slice





 
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 3:40:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 3:48:36 PM EDT by GoRebels]
Originally Posted By Ops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg

That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops


Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck

To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:02:48 PM EDT
just get a good running 4wd ford F150 V8 gasser and call it done! They can be had under $5000 if you watch craigs list and that would get you a running truck ready to drive. If you want to do the work yourself to fix one up, I've seen 90s fords for around $3-4k but if it were me, I'd just buy a later model good running truck for 5k and call it good nuff. Check out the supercabs which are common so cheap and actually kinda handy. I'm in dfw and see good running trucks with 100-150k miles for 5k as long as you are willing to go with one that is about 10 years old. That is what we did for my son and he loves his F150. Only things we have had to do to his in 18months since he bought it is new tires and a new waterpump for one that had a minor leak.Truck runs great and in SHTF, it would work nicely. His even came with a nice lockable diamond plate tool box bolted into the bed.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:19:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:27:50 PM EDT
check out your local power company for auctions of work trucks.
we got a 2500 6.0 4x4 chevy2006 with 120k miles for 3k
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:28:19 PM EDT
TJ lol.....and I did a whole thread without a compressor.



I'll say I'm no longer intimidated by the ball joints on my GM.  I just have a list now.  If I'm gonna go there then I want a lot of other items spiffy too when I get done...Like brakes, bearings, CV joints, pitman arm, idler arm, and tie rods.  Might as well get-r-dun while I'm there.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:30:19 PM EDT



Originally Posted By GoRebels:



Originally Posted By Ops:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg



That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  



The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.



Ops




Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck



To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....


more diesel availible than gas around b.r. after the storm.

 
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:52:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By louisianarebel:

Originally Posted By GoRebels:
Originally Posted By Ops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg

That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops


Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck

To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....



more diesel availible than gas around b.r. after the storm.



Huh?  What does that mean?

From every account I've read of post-Katrina, several of them from members on this forum, diesel was unavailable for al the reasons already stated.  You can expect the same post-any natural disaster.  I heard it was impossible to find in Joplin, MO back in May after the tornado.  Here's a link that confirms it for those who want me to do the research for them:

http://findfreightloads.com/blog/missouri-urges-truckers-to-bypass-joplin/




Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 4:58:08 PM EDT by Gone_Shootin]
Look on Craigslist. I see '80s Broncos on there for around $1000 or less. With some frugal parts shopping, you could put together one with a real tough drivetrain too & still be in your budget.

I have one myself & it's still in stock trim, but it gets around pretty good. The short spread between the axles means it bucks a little going down the road, but that thing can turn around quick.

After I get around to putting a ZF5 transmission in it (the POS stock Mazda trans is shelled out), I want to beef up the rest of the drive train. The stock 8.8s are okay for now, but I want to at least put Dana 60s under it, or better yet Dana 70s. And different transfer case too. An Atlas if I can come up with the money, or a NP205 with the double range box conversion. And a 6" lift.

I an torn about which way to go with the engine though. I6, 351, or a stroker built on a 351 block?....or maybe a I6 Cummins diesel.... Not sure... All I know is that damn 302 has to go.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:56:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 4:58:33 PM EDT by louisianarebel]





Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:





Originally Posted By louisianarebel:
Originally Posted By GoRebels:




Originally Posted By Ops:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg





That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  





The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.





Ops






Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck





To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....

more diesel availible than gas around b.r. after the storm.

Huh?  What does that mean?





From every account I've read of post-Katrina, several of them from members on this forum, diesel was unavailable for al the reasons already stated.  You can expect the same post-any natural disaster.  I heard it was impossible to find in Joplin, MO back in May after the tornado.  Here's a link that confirms it for those who want me to do the research for them:





http://findfreightloads.com/blog/missouri-urges-truckers-to-bypass-joplin/



we had a truckstop. people down the highway waiting for gas. about 3 trucks in line for diesel at a time.


 
I didnt go to new orleasns just around baton rouge.

sry for spelling. cant type on tablet
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:58:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 5:00:48 PM EDT by Epic_Ed]
To clarify, I'm not saying a diesel vehicle is a bad option.  It's not. But it has it's pro's and cons just like a gas powered vehicle.  I'm just trying to shed some light on the myth than many, many people seem to believe about the greater availability of diesel post SHTF than gas.  The facts that we can assess in real life SHTF events here in the US simply don't bear that argument out.  There are a combination of factors that may play into one source being move available than another, but the evidence we can verify from recent events indicates diesel will not be any more plentiful than gas and in many cases may be even more scarce.  If you're basing you're decision on BOV choice on the argument that you're certain it will be more available I think you're not thinking it through and you are ignoring the facts.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 5:03:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 5:04:44 PM EDT by Epic_Ed]
....
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 5:04:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By louisianarebel:

Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:
Originally Posted By louisianarebel:

Originally Posted By GoRebels:
Originally Posted By Ops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg

That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  

The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.

Ops


Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck

To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....



more diesel availible than gas around b.r. after the storm.



Huh?  What does that mean?

From every account I've read of post-Katrina, several of them from members on this forum, diesel was unavailable for al the reasons already stated.  You can expect the same post-any natural disaster.  I heard it was impossible to find in Joplin, MO back in May after the tornado.  Here's a link that confirms it for those who want me to do the research for them:

http://findfreightloads.com/blog/missouri-urges-truckers-to-bypass-joplin/





we had a truckstop. people down the highway waiting for gas. about 3 trucks in line for diesel at a time.    
I didnt go to new orleasns just around baton rouge.
sry for spelling. cant type on tablet



Got it.

The one major advantage of most diesel vehicles in the capacity of the fuel tanks and the resulting increased range.  So, in your case, if someone were able to get out of the disaster zone the likelihood of diesel becoming more available increases.  Not so if you need to go back into the zone post event.  Just trying to present this argument from different points of view.  There are no absolutes.

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 5:08:31 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:



Originally Posted By louisianarebel:




Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:


Originally Posted By louisianarebel:




Originally Posted By GoRebels:


Originally Posted By Ops:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/PA_Ops/Rita-CommonSign2.jpg



That says it all.  I lived thru the 1973 and 1979 "gas shortages" and vividly remember the diesel pumps remaining open when the gas was LONG gone.  



The comments about cold weather starting are mostly bullshit.  Either of my rigs will start up without help when the outdoor temp is down into the teens, probably lower.  Most of the folks complaining about diesel "problems" have never owned one.



Ops




Yes but I lived through Katrina and I can attest to the fact there was no Diesel to be had......Truck stops were full of big rigs outta fuel begging our convoy for some jp8 and looking mighty tough like they thought about trying to take it.......lol   That'd been funny but really it's going to be hit or miss depending on event and your location........Three wars going on have Diesel supplies strapped hince the high cost of it now so my Recommendation would be to find a nice midsized SUV such as an Hummer H3.  Solid 4x4 with good capacity and fair milage and plenty small enough to get in and out of tight trails and such.....good luck



To answer the guy up above about citing refernces I was in it and deployed on it with my guard unit.  What stages did it run out well it began to dry out Saturday and by Sunday it was scarce and on Monday the 29th everyone was hunkered down so who cared.  On Tuesday the day after it was of no more existence and stayed that way for well over a week.  There were gas lines for two weeks here in the Mississippi Gulf Coast and it was limited to $20 a car or person for those with cans...The roads were littered with vehicles out of gas and people were falling out from heat exhaustion from pushing their vehicles to try and get to the one or two stations that were open....that's reall shit so I dont care how big and badass your rig is without fuel it's a fucking road block.....






more diesel availible than gas around b.r. after the storm.






Huh?  What does that mean?



From every account I've read of post-Katrina, several of them from members on this forum, diesel was unavailable for al the reasons already stated.  You can expect the same post-any natural disaster.  I heard it was impossible to find in Joplin, MO back in May after the tornado.  Here's a link that confirms it for those who want me to do the research for them:



http://findfreightloads.com/blog/missouri-urges-truckers-to-bypass-joplin/


we had a truckstop. people down the highway waiting for gas. about 3 trucks in line for diesel at a time.    
I didnt go to new orleasns just around baton rouge.

sry for spelling. cant type on tablet






Got it.



The one major advantage of most diesel vehicles in the capacity of the fuel tanks and the resulting increased range.  So, in your case, if someone were able to get out of the disaster zone the likelihood of diesel becoming more available increases.  Not so if you need to go back into the zone post event.  Just trying to present this argument from different points of view.  There are no absolutes.



Never know how it will end up. get both

Ill get a pic of the new bov/fuel truck if anyone cares tom.

 
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 5:28:37 PM EDT
you should be able to get a decent gas truck out of the 90s in your budget and have some money left to work with. anything diesel mid-late 90s and newer stay away from. they seem to have much more reliability problems if theyre not run everyday. they will not run forever like everyone says, they will not run on any fuel like everyone says, hell there even picky on how old the fuel is if its not stored perfect. and in the winter they pretty much have to be plugged in if its around 0 deg out. if the heaters not plugged in your very brave and hopefully have a battery charger handy thatll start a diesel. jmo though. personally full size bronco would be great but i love my 97 f150
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 11:49:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Epic_Ed:
From every account I've read of post-Katrina, several of them from members on this forum, diesel was unavailable for al the reasons already stated.  You can expect the same post-any natural disaster.  I heard it was impossible to find in Joplin, MO back in May after the tornado.  Here's a link that confirms it for those who want me to do the research for them:

http://findfreightloads.com/blog/missouri-urges-truckers-to-bypass-joplin/


Ummmm, that is not very convincing....

Missouri is asking truckers to not exit Interstate 44 in Joplin, except for exit 4’s fueling plazas, but state officials are expediting trucking permits and waiving fees following the city’s deadly tornado


Sounds like diesel fuel was available there at the fuel plazas.

And I have also read numerous post-Katrina accounts stating that diesel was available while gasoline was not. So, as you said, there are probably many factors that determine fuel availability.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 11:35:42 AM EDT
I will agree and like I stated it obviously will depend on a number of mitigating factors none of which we have any control over........I agree should have two good options if at all viable for you and if not ask the elders ina and around your imediate and research all disasters that have effected your populous and see what happend during such an event to get a better feel for what might be more realistic.........Lots of good info here to draw from as we all have our experiences and opinions............
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