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Posted: 5/29/2008 10:49:11 PM EST
What are my options for a carbine length rifle chambered in 7.62x39? Right now I have a yugo SKS that's just toooo long. It's much longer than my full sized G3 clone. I know of AR's, SKS', AK's, and Mini-30's. Is there anything else out there? What about kits to conver calibers? bonus points for cheap alternatives, and for alternatives with removable box magazines.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:04:59 PM EST
The AK47 is still cheap ,reliable ,folding stocks and cheap mags. ARs in that calibur need to have good mags to go with them or forget it as a survival tool. The Same thing holds true for the mini30. AK ammo is still cheaper than other common types but it is catching up in price. The bottom line is AKs work great as short range assault weapon.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:34:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 11:35:50 PM EST by Skibane]
An AK variant is probably going to win the "most portable" contest. One of my personal favorites is the AMD-65:


An AK pistol would also be worth considering, since the regulations for minimum rifle length don't apply to them.

Link Posted: 5/30/2008 12:47:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Skibane:
An AK variant is probably going to win the "most portable" contest. One of my personal favorites is the AMD-65:
img408.imageshack.us/img408/8436/amd65v2te4.jpg

An AK pistol would also be worth considering, since the regulations for minimum rifle length don't apply to them.

img215.imageshack.us/img215/7585/akpistolvd1.jpg


I have several AK's and love them.

Other than portability, what would the actual usability of an AK pistol be?

Link Posted: 5/30/2008 1:45:37 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
Other than portability, what would the actual usability of an AK pistol be?



Fun?
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 3:38:40 PM EST
You need a Franken AK (FEG receiver, Romy G parts, US compliance parts)! Cheap, compact, reliable, ugly as sin- what's not to love.

Link Posted: 5/30/2008 4:53:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
I have several AK's and love them.

Other than portability, what would the actual usability of an AK pistol be?


Several advantages:

1. Commonality with your AK rifles and ammo
2. More potent round than most pistol calibers
3. Wicked muzzle flash and report - Great intimidation factor!
4. Ability to use non-922R compliant parts (considerably cheaper to build from a kit than an AK rifle)
5. Wide range of magazine capacities available - at reasonable prices
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 6:10:20 PM EST
how do you guys feel about the siagas? I've seen them around for under $400
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 7:16:54 PM EST
I have a Saiga in the 7.62 x 39 "Sporter" (non pistol-grip) configuration that is being converted to accept conventional AK mags, use a side-folding stock, meet 922R requirements, etc. It's a very reliable, reasonably accurate rifle (as AKs go), with good build quality (again, as AKs go! ).

Most folks love their Saigas. Unlike many of the other inexpensive AKs, you won't hear many complaints about canted sights or other stupid assembly errors from Saiga owners. Unfortunately, their popularity has driven prices up considerably from the $180 or so that unconverted Sporters sold for just a few years ago...
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 7:41:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/30/2008 7:47:47 PM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:07:43 AM EST
Forget 7.62x39... Save your pennies and get a 12 gauge conversion from TROMIX!

Link Posted: 5/31/2008 9:34:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By GreatDane:
Forget 7.62x39... Save your pennies and get a 12 gauge conversion from TROMIX!

www.tromix.com/images/SWATLg.jpg


ha, I'm looking into 7.62x39 for the cheaper ammo.....
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 10:17:00 PM EST
Although it doesn't totally fit your criteria (not sure how short barrel was), Ruger made a M77 Bolt action in 7.62X39 back around 1993/94 in a small batch for some hardware store chain, or something like that. It was an awesome little package, and I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one when I had the chance. They now command a pretty penny, when they do appear on Gun broker, which is very rarely.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 2:36:58 AM EST
A buddy of mine bought a Romanian AK as his SHTF rifle. It is his only rifle beside his hunting rifle and sniper type rifle. He is very happy with it and I was impressed with how accurate it shoots for an AK. It also has a scope mount on the side of the receiver that locks up tight. If you chose the AK system for your go to weapon make sure you understand the limitations on longer range accuracy. And do a little practical training like shooting at helium balloons tied to strings at different ranges. Or firing from the prone,behind cover or through a old car door with the target on the other side. Folding stock AKs are good weapons for enclosed spaces like a car and can be hidden easily in a gym bag ,back pack or what ever else you use to carry it with. Also since it would be a new system to you you should dry practice mag changes and snap shooting. Clearing your house dry is good practice to if you plan on using this weapon for that purpose in a SHTF world. And finaly there are some really cheap mag bras out there that hold AK mags. There aren't supper high speed like the M4 stuff but it will do the job. And finaly I would carry a pistol as back up because the AK can surprise you when empty so you will want to transition to your pistol until you can safely change mags from behind cover. Most bad guys don't carry extra ammo or train with there weapon or carry a back up weapon, so do these three things and your chance of winning the fight greatly improves.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 11:30:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/1/2008 11:33:20 AM EST by Skibane]
Another option would be to install a bullpup conversion on a WASR or other inexpensive AK. There's at least one company that manufactures the kit (I've seen it in the Southern Ohio Guns sales flyers). A friend of mine has one - says the only major disadvantage is that the trigger is cable-actuated, which makes for crappy trigger feel.



AKs with the conversion kit pre-installed occasionally crop up at gun shows and a few dealers.

Norinco also manufactured a bullpup AK (Type 86S), but they are quite rare in the U.S.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:05:12 PM EST
how do you guys feel about 7.62x39 AR's?
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:16:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
how do you guys feel about 7.62x39 AR's?


The problem seems to be finding magazines that run reliably. IIRC, C-Products is supposed to be working on some though.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:26:24 PM EST
... Last year I rid my safe of a Ruger Mini-30, now have some regrets about it
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:49:38 AM EST
Saiga in x39 is a good choice or find a used Mini 30. You can usually find them discarded next to the road since "real" armchair commandos find them to be nothing but POS guns.

Another alternative is to cut the barrel down on your Yugo to 16" or buy a used Norinco "paratrooper" (short version of the sks).
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:51:06 AM EST
I like the Saigas for the money - like Tj said, think of it as an SKS but you've got a Kalashnikov action.
You can buy the sporter version with no pistol grip and save some bucks. Just shoot it as is to get use to the trajectory. Save your $ and have it converted to pistol grip and to use AK mags later if you want. Otherwise jsut stock up on the Saiga mags for it and shoot it while you can afford the ammo.

If you choose the Romanian AK or any other for that matter, just look them over for canted front sights and gas tubes. Rack the action (run the bolt) a few times to see that it moves smoothly and you are pretty much there. I would not over spend on it - part of the beauty of the AK is it SHOULD be inexpensive - but thats getting rare right now. You could look for a good parts kit and have someone like Ohio Rapid Fire build it for you on a US receiver with compliance parts. There are some other good builders around this site as well. Just dig around some and get price quotes from them.

It is hard to beat a Kalashnikov actioned rifle for what you want - its what they were made around. I recently picked up a Romanian WASR for $415 out the door. Thats way higher than the other AK's I have bought. The first was a MAC-90 for $179. Wish they were still out there for that price now!

Best of luck on your search.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 7:37:18 AM EST
Another option (since you are already familiar with the SKS) is a paratrooper length (16" barrel) Chinese SKS. It is significantly shorter & lighter weight than your Yugo SKS.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 8:08:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skibane:
I have a Saiga in the 7.62 x 39 "Sporter" (non pistol-grip) configuration that is being converted to accept conventional AK mags, use a side-folding stock, meet 922R requirements, etc. It's a very reliable, reasonably accurate rifle (as AKs go), with good build quality (again, as AKs go! ).

Most folks love their Saigas. Unlike many of the other inexpensive AKs, you won't hear many complaints about canted sights or other stupid assembly errors from Saiga owners. Unfortunately, their popularity has driven prices up considerably from the $180 or so that unconverted Sporters sold for just a few years ago...

I'm thinking of getting a Saiga for my wife. How much does it cost to convert it to use the AK magazines without the pistol grip and such?
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 8:34:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunnerclark:

Originally Posted By Skibane:
I have a Saiga in the 7.62 x 39 "Sporter" (non pistol-grip) configuration that is being converted to accept conventional AK mags, use a side-folding stock, meet 922R requirements, etc. It's a very reliable, reasonably accurate rifle (as AKs go), with good build quality (again, as AKs go! ).

Most folks love their Saigas. Unlike many of the other inexpensive AKs, you won't hear many complaints about canted sights or other stupid assembly errors from Saiga owners. Unfortunately, their popularity has driven prices up considerably from the $180 or so that unconverted Sporters sold for just a few years ago...

I'm thinking of getting a Saiga for my wife. How much does it cost to convert it to use the AK magazines without the pistol grip and such?



http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=80&t=106485


Here is a link in the AK forums - I'd also check some local gunsmiths to see - if they can do some basic work, they can probably do the conversion.
Also, check on Ohio Rapid Fire for one - they may give you a quote.

I would check out the Russian AK forum over in the AK section for more into.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 7:12:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunnerclark:
I'm thinking of getting a Saiga for my wife. How much does it cost to convert it to use the AK magazines without the pistol grip and such?


It can be done for almost free, with a little bit of scrap pipe and a little labor.

However, there is some controversy about the legality of converting it to accept standard AK mags without also adding the required minimum number of American-made parts to meet 922R regulations. Basically, the rifle was only able to be imported without meeting 922R regulations due to it's lack of certain "evil" cosmetic features (including the ability to accept hi-cap AK mags). Restoring any of those "evil" features yourself apparently makes it in violation of 922R, unless you also add the required number of U.S.-made parts. That's the scuttlebutt anyway, as I understand it...
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