Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 4/23/2014 4:12:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2014 4:38:58 AM EDT by Iram]
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?

From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.

Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 4:13:40 AM EDT
6.8, go check out 68 forums.

Link Posted: 4/23/2014 4:35:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2014 4:35:43 AM EDT by Iram]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
6.8, go check out 68 forums.

View Quote

Other than emptying my wallet faster and being harder to find, I don't see any significant difference between 7.62x39 and 6.8mm on paper. It's a ~120gr projectile going at ~2500 fps either way.

I want to stick with more common cartridges.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 4:39:35 AM EDT
At 300 yards, i'd say 5.56 is still more than sufficient really.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 4:40:48 AM EDT
If you're already set up with ammo, mags, etc, why not just change your optic for the 300m max range you're now considering? A 16" civilian M4-style rifle is certainly capable out to 300m.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 4:45:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iram:

Other than emptying my wallet faster and being harder to find, I don't see any significant difference between 7.62x39 and 6.8mm on paper. It's a ~120gr projectile going at ~2500 fps either way.

I want to stick with more common cartridges.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iram:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
6.8, go check out 68 forums.


Other than emptying my wallet faster and being harder to find, I don't see any significant difference between 7.62x39 and 6.8mm on paper. It's a ~120gr projectile going at ~2500 fps either way.

I want to stick with more common cartridges.


I wouldn't say 7.62x39 is common, while its readily available there may be that point where current law ban it. Plus 7.62x39 is 300 BLK.

for SHTF id do a 6.8/556/300 BLK combo and reloading. Making 6.8 your first line than 556 than 300 BLK
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 5:08:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2014 5:16:53 AM EDT by SharnPenndroen]
Originally Posted By Iram:
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?

From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.

Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.
View Quote


7.62x39 is best in an AK, so if you aren't going to consider the AK I would not consider the round. This is primarily due to magazines and the shape of the cartridge. I love the round for several reasons, one of them being that it is cheaper to shoot than my 9mm. When available, I might consider the new Rock Rivers gun that takes AK magazines and have been considering the new version of the SIG 556R, but I'll probably just stick with my AKs for shooting this round.

Inside of 300 yards the 5.56 is just fine. I don't think you gain much by going to the trouble of replacing your 16" upper with a 20" upper. The gun and ammo are light weight so if you are doing any walking that is important. And honestly your optic is fine for that distance as well, though if you are in doubt, get a magnifier for the aimpoint or get an ACOG.

A SR25 pattern gun in .308 would be great to have, but I don't think you should get rid of your ar15 for it. The gun and ammo are significantly heavier. I don't really put 308 in the same class as 7.62x39 and 5.56x45. They are intermediate rounds while the 308 is a full fledged rifle round.

My vote would be for you to keep your AR15 and buy a SR25 pattern gun. Now you have two.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 5:15:28 AM EDT
Again, go to 68 forums, there is a vast difference.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 5:27:01 AM EDT
keep the rifle as it is and start using some MK262/5.56mm 77gr. OTM as your SHTF rounds. Consider adding a 3X magnifer to your rifle.

Welcome to Texas - remember to register to vote!
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 6:18:18 AM EDT
5.56
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 6:20:22 AM EDT
I think I'd agree with avoiding the 7.62x39 in the AR. Works great in an AK and Mini-30 tho. Seems that the suggestion for the 77gr 5.56 appears to be solid. Going with a 20" barrel would help velocities and accuracy.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 6:48:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2014 6:50:34 AM EDT by Iram]
I'm going to to replace the barrel either way. I currently have a no-flashhider/no-bayonet Massachusetts barrel. I like my fixed stock ( ACE entry length ), but I want a free-state barrel.

I'll likely be replacing the entire upper and sending the old ones (plus pre-94 mags) to a friend of mine in MA who just got his license.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:07:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:09:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:14:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 9:11:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MattNificent:
5.56
View Quote


maybe get an acog?

good easy out to 500yds and can id targets better than a red dot
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 9:14:49 AM EDT
Since you already have the 5.56 ARs, no reason to switch. As others have said out to 300 yards, you're gtg. Only reason to switch to a 7.62x39 would be if you'd be shooting through heavy brush that would deflect the 5.56. 5.56 is, I believe, a much flatter shooter than the 7.62x39 at 300 yards.

An 18" or 20" barrel would give you better velocities than the 16", making it better for the longer range.

Link Posted: 4/23/2014 9:21:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Iram:
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?

From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.

Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.
View Quote


5.56 is fine out to 300. What is the current upper/lower you have?

Why do you just want to get a new upper and not a complete rifle?
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 9:43:48 AM EDT
.223 / 5.56.

Effective on any living target in North America within reasonable ranges and with proper shot placement.

300 yds./meters is well within the limits of .223 / 5.56 for self defense.



Link Posted: 4/23/2014 11:07:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iram:
I'm going to to replace the barrel either way. I currently have a no-flashhider/no-bayonet Massachusetts barrel. I like my fixed stock ( ACE entry length ), but I want a free-state barrel.

I'll likely be replacing the entire upper and sending the old ones (plus pre-94 mags) to a friend of mine in MA who just got his license.
View Quote


Glad you made it to a free state.

If you are dead set on getting a new upper, my recommendation is going to be a BCM cold hammer forged barrel 16" mid length gas system with a 13" Troy handguard. Because that is what I have a like it the best. ;)



Pic because this thread feels like it needs it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 11:43:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By clownbear69:


I wouldn't say 7.62x39 is common, while its readily available there may be that point where current law ban it. Plus 7.62x39 is 300 BLK.

for SHTF id do a 6.86.5 Grendel /556/300 BLK combo and reloading. Making 6.8 6.5 Grendel your first line than 556 than 300 BLK
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By clownbear69:
Originally Posted By Iram:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
6.8, go check out 68 forums.


Other than emptying my wallet faster and being harder to find, I don't see any significant difference between 7.62x39 and 6.8mm on paper. It's a ~120gr projectile going at ~2500 fps either way.

I want to stick with more common cartridges.


I wouldn't say 7.62x39 is common, while its readily available there may be that point where current law ban it. Plus 7.62x39 is 300 BLK.

for SHTF id do a 6.86.5 Grendel /556/300 BLK combo and reloading. Making 6.8 6.5 Grendel your first line than 556 than 300 BLK

Now we're talking some capability.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 12:36:00 PM EDT
Keep the carbine length barrel.
Keep the 5.56
Maybe Buy another optic: ACOG as suggested.

Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:02:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SharnPenndroen:


7.62x39 is best in an AK, so if you aren't going to consider the AK I would not consider the round. This is primarily due to magazines and the shape of the cartridge. I love the round for several reasons, one of them being that it is cheaper to shoot than my 9mm. When available, I might consider the new Rock Rivers gun that takes AK magazines and have been considering the new version of the SIG 556R, but I'll probably just stick with my AKs for shooting this round.

Inside of 300 yards the 5.56 is just fine. I don't think you gain much by going to the trouble of replacing your 16" upper with a 20" upper. The gun and ammo are light weight so if you are doing any walking that is important. And honestly your optic is fine for that distance as well, though if you are in doubt, get a magnifier for the aimpoint or get an ACOG.

A SR25 pattern gun in .308 would be great to have, but I don't think you should get rid of your ar15 for it. The gun and ammo are significantly heavier. I don't really put 308 in the same class as 7.62x39 and 5.56x45. They are intermediate rounds while the 308 is a full fledged rifle round.

My vote would be for you to keep your AR15 and buy a SR25 pattern gun. Now you have two.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SharnPenndroen:
Originally Posted By Iram:
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?

From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.

Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.


7.62x39 is best in an AK, so if you aren't going to consider the AK I would not consider the round. This is primarily due to magazines and the shape of the cartridge. I love the round for several reasons, one of them being that it is cheaper to shoot than my 9mm. When available, I might consider the new Rock Rivers gun that takes AK magazines and have been considering the new version of the SIG 556R, but I'll probably just stick with my AKs for shooting this round.

Inside of 300 yards the 5.56 is just fine. I don't think you gain much by going to the trouble of replacing your 16" upper with a 20" upper. The gun and ammo are light weight so if you are doing any walking that is important. And honestly your optic is fine for that distance as well, though if you are in doubt, get a magnifier for the aimpoint or get an ACOG.

A SR25 pattern gun in .308 would be great to have, but I don't think you should get rid of your ar15 for it. The gun and ammo are significantly heavier. I don't really put 308 in the same class as 7.62x39 and 5.56x45. They are intermediate rounds while the 308 is a full fledged rifle round.

My vote would be for you to keep your AR15 and buy a SR25 pattern gun. Now you have two.



Hard to argue with these suggestions. Spot on.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:06:48 PM EDT
My.02 cents based on personal experience.

I have a PWS MK114. It has a 14.5 in barrel with a pinned muzzle brake to make it legal. I have shot it out to 650 yards with 75 gr Hornady TAP from the prone position with a 10x scope. My recommendation is to upgrade to a better scope and use 75 grain quality ammo. If you are interested in a illuminated1-4x variable scope that's good to about 450 yards I would recommend a Vortex Viper PST 1- 4x scope.

Here is a pic with the 2.5 - 10 x scope setup.




and one with the 1-4x setup. Mine is in the back. My friends rifle in the front is an 5.56 LMT with an ACOG



Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:12:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iram:
I'm going to to replace the barrel either way. I currently have a no-flashhider/no-bayonet Massachusetts barrel. I like my fixed stock ( ACE entry length ), but I want a free-state barrel.

I'll likely be replacing the entire upper and sending the old ones (plus pre-94 mags) to a friend of mine in MA who just got his license.
View Quote


You can get the barrel threaded (by ADCO) for a flash hider...or a suppressor!
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:15:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2014 1:19:46 PM EDT by Geohans]
I agree with many above: There's no need to do anything.

If EVERYTHING else is in order, it can be fun and even a little useful to expand. My first choice (to EXPAND options, not trade your 5.56) would be .308 for perimeter security, with appropriate glass.

An AK would be good to own for two reasons: 1. Familiarization with the "platform;" 2. Versatility if you find a stash of ammo after SHTF.

In terms of efficiency, there's nothing better than a reliable 16in AR in 5.56. Personally, in your shoes, my next step would be ANOTHER 16in AR in 5.56, set up with an ACOG, maybe a more accurate setup than just a blaster (SS barrel, crisp refined trigger) along with ammo/mags.

But as I say, if you've got everything covered-- vehicle, fuel, food, etc etc- plus night vision, plus plus plus-- then it can be fun to get into new platforms and calibers.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:16:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Forest:

Not necessarily, especially if one is using optics.

I'd also suggest the 75gr Hornady OTM over the 77gr SMK. The SMK has a slight edge on accuracy (nothing you'll notice at 300M) but has better (and more consistent) terminal performance.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Doppleganger871:
I think I'd agree with avoiding the 7.62x39 in the AR. Works great in an AK and Mini-30 tho. Seems that the suggestion for the 77gr 5.56 appears to be solid. Going with a 20" barrel would help velocities and accuracy.

Not necessarily, especially if one is using optics.

I'd also suggest the 75gr Hornady OTM over the 77gr SMK. The SMK has a slight edge on accuracy (nothing you'll notice at 300M) but has better (and more consistent) terminal performance.


On paper I have 't noticed much difference between the 5.56mm 77 gr. OTM and the 75 gr. 5.56mm TAP - I can get the 77 gr. easier and Cabelas routinely has the MK262 factory seconds in stock.

I'd be happy with either
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 1:23:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RumbleTruck:


On paper I have 't noticed much difference between the 5.56mm 77 gr. OTM and the 75 gr. 5.56mm TAP - I can get the 77 gr. easier and Cabelas routinely has the MK262 factory seconds in stock.

I'd be happy with either
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RumbleTruck:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Doppleganger871:
I think I'd agree with avoiding the 7.62x39 in the AR. Works great in an AK and Mini-30 tho. Seems that the suggestion for the 77gr 5.56 appears to be solid. Going with a 20" barrel would help velocities and accuracy.

Not necessarily, especially if one is using optics.

I'd also suggest the 75gr Hornady OTM over the 77gr SMK. The SMK has a slight edge on accuracy (nothing you'll notice at 300M) but has better (and more consistent) terminal performance.


On paper I have 't noticed much difference between the 5.56mm 77 gr. OTM and the 75 gr. 5.56mm TAP - I can get the 77 gr. easier and Cabelas routinely has the MK262 factory seconds in stock.

I'd be happy with either



These are all good choices; however, if you're serious about MOA at longer distances, you will have to choose one-- or keep track of settings for POA/POI for various rounds. They will each be different.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 5:47:15 PM EDT
A concealable pistol can solve about 95% of problems that are solvable with a gun.

Add an AR15 and you're up to about 98%. 100% if you limit the range to 300y.

I think you should spend your cash on training or other holes in your food, gear, and home.


If you must buy more weapon-related gear, I'd look at an optic with some magnification, followed by a suppressor. Those items offer extra capability, and add to enjoyment of just shooting for the hell of it ... which if we're all lucky is what our guns will be used for until the day we die in our sleep at age 112.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 6:30:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:10:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:11:10 PM EDT
a 16" 5.56 is capable of 300yds just fine,no need for a 20"
perhaps a 3Xmagnifier for the aimpoint
or 4x scope instead of the aimpoint
or 4x scope and keep the aimpoint and use a 45degree mount
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:29:19 PM EDT
Not to beat a dead horse from 300 yds out, but another vote for keeping with the 5.56 and improving your optics and ammo.

7.62x39 is great and cheaper to shoot, but better in the intended platform imho.

I just dove into the .308 world last week but with a bolt action and a high powered optic, with the intention of learning and practicing 500-1000 yds out. 300 in and I would be perfectly comfortable using my 16 in LWRC with ACOG.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 8:45:25 PM EDT
If you want to go further than 300yds you could try a rainier or Noveske stainles barrel (14.5 or 16). Both are very accurate, but as has been said repeatedly, your current setup is adequate for sub 300yds. I might consider a little more glass like a vortex 1-4x or 2.5-10x... whatever floats your boat.


Link Posted: 4/24/2014 12:47:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Iram:
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?
The 5.56/.223 is easily effective out to 600yds, if you have the right barrel and ammo. My 16" 1:9 bbl is good out to 300yds, but isn't necessarily a tack driver (I shoot iron sights, so an optic would probably shrink my groups...a little) It's fine for defense, but I would need an optic and a handloaded hunting bullet to trust it hunting.

My 20" 1:8 bbl will shoot sub-MOA at 600yds all day long. (Again, I am shooting iron sights. This is my NMA4 that I use for high power competition.) The biggest difference is that the shorter bbl is not able to get as high velocities, which effects your ballistics down range. The higher twist rate helps stabilize the heavier bullets, but the velocity is the big difference.

I have shot 77gr in my 16" 1:9 and it stabilized them fine. The shorter radius of the iron sights coupled with the lower velocity opened my group up at 200yds. The 20" 1:8 makes a nice tiny group with the same bullets.


From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.
It's good to know that 300yds is your "max" distance, but what kind of shooting are you doing? If you want hunting accuracy and will be staying near one location for your shooting, then get an AR upper that has a heavy 20" 1:8 bbl. This gives you the ability to shoot from about 52gr to 77gr ammo very accurately.

If you plan on walking a lot with your rifle slung, I would still get the 20" 1:8, but not a heavy. People have already mentioned the extra 4" of barrel weight. You won't notice this if you're just in the field, but you definitely notice every ounce of weight in your gun if you practice room clearing every day. Even my 16" bbl gets heavy after a couple days of holding it "at the ready."


Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

Don't forget to add in the cost of reloading components (or loaded ammo) for your round. The .308 will easily open your range to 1000yds, and be legal for hunting most animals in most states, but it uses a LOT more powder to lob that heavy projectile. Brass, bullet, powder, and primer are all bigger, and therefore cost more. If you can afford to feed it, the AR-10 would be fun. Otherwise I like your option for a 20" 5.56 version (hopefully with a 1:8 twist.)

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.

One more thing to consider, you may eventually get a bolt gun in the same caliber for more accurate hunting. Many of the .223 bolt guns are 1:12 twist rates, which prefers the lighter 40gr to 55gr rounds. You can find a couple of good options in .223 bolt guns with 1:9 twists: Savage, Rem 700, and Tikki are at the top of the list. The Rem700 can be outfitted with bottom metal to accept AR15 style mags (I think the Savage can too, but I'm not 100% sure off the top of my head).

Of course, the .308 family has MANY options in bolt guns; so you could be very versatile there too.

View Quote

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 1:43:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RumbleTruck:
keep the rifle as it is and start using some MK262/5.56mm 77gr. OTM as your SHTF rounds. Consider adding a 3X magnifer to your rifle.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:28:07 PM EDT


Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:33:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:37:58 PM EDT by ariesfromhell]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Forest:


If that is the case there is no need to do anything. A 16" AR is more than adequate enough to make good hits on targets at 300meters - a 20" will only give you more length and weight to worry about.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Iram:
Several months ago I moved from Massachusetts to Texas, and I'm looking to replace my 'shtf' rifle. Distances down here are a lot longer than they were in MA, and things aren't as heavily wooded for the most part.

At what distances does 308 become a better choice than 5.56? Is 7.62x39 worth considering?

From what I've seen, I'm thinking the maximum range I need to consider is 300 yards. Beyond that I don't have the skill to hit shit anyways.

Currently I have a 16" AR-15 in 5.56mm with an aimpoint micro on top of it. I'm considering either:
- Replacing the upper with a 20" 5.56mm version
- Replacing the upper with a 7.62x39 version in either 16" or 20"
- Replacing the entire gun with an AR-10

EDIT: I should have mentioned I want to stick with the AR platform and with a common cartridge. I'm not interested in a SCAR, AK, or wundergun in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, 5.7mm, 300 Blackout, or 7.5mm Zombie.


If that is the case there is no need to do anything. A 16" AR is more than adequate enough to make good hits on targets at 300meters - a 20" will only give you more length and weight to worry about.

This. And if you do want to go with a heavier load, 6.5 Grendel ftw. :)
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 12:15:07 AM EDT
At 300 yards or less id be fine with an sbr and acog or eotech and magnifier. 70 grain tsx or 77 grain otm and call it good.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 3:03:12 AM EDT
Add a 308 and scope your current 5.56 + add a free state upper to it.
Being in Texas there ought to be some ranges where you can stretch the legs of your current setup.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 3:46:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
6.8, go check out 68 forums.

View Quote


Only if you like a trajectory like a rainbow.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:36:50 AM EDT
Hey Skibane,

Where is the 5.56 on the top chart?

Link Posted: 4/25/2014 6:09:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sharkman6:
Keep the carbine length barrel.
Keep the 5.56
Maybe Buy another optic: ACOG as suggested.

View Quote


This

At 300yds your current setup with an ACOG or 1-6 scope will do the job
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 6:25:48 AM EDT
I'd build a 16 or 18 inch stainless 5.56 precision upper with a 3x9 on it and use some variant of a 77gr SMK. Mil rounds are "cheap" compared to commercial. You can get IMI Mk262 for <$17 per 20 rounds. I would think that you would be good out to 500 with that. I'm not a ballistics expert, though it seemed to work out okay for the military with Mk12s.

This way you keep a round that is as easily available and common as any other in the US and useable in any of your setups. It's relatively cheap compared to 308 and 6.8.

If you're itching for something new, I would build the .308. That also keeps you to a common US round and, I believe, gives you the best range of the group.

That's my opinion, current philosophy, and current direction. YMMV.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 8:30:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 8:45:07 AM EDT
I'll add a couple points to the discussion:
(1) A longer barrel does not make your rifle "more accurate." Longer barrels provide faster velocities, which may make a flatter trajectory, but generally does not increase accuracy.
(2) Before choosing what rifle is best suited for shooting targets at a given distance, you should identify what size target you're attempting to engage. If shooting a 39" E-Type or an 18"x30" full size IPSC is your thing, you can get it done with 5.56. If you want to live in the real world, you need to accept that nobody just stands there in the open during a gunfight. In real combat, you'll be attempting to engage blobs of men laying in the prone and these targets are closer to 8-10" plates. I think most will find this a much harder target with 5.56 at 300yds.
(3) Most AR15s are 2-3 MOA guns - so if you're attempting to hit men in the prone at 300yds, you're already at the limits of the weapon's capabilities (nevermind your own skill). Most ARs have chrome lined barrels which gives plenty of barrel life, but sucks for accuracy. Add to this that most people shoot non-match factory ammo through them... it doesn't really set you up well for precision shots necessary to hit men in the prone at 300yds.
(4) Lastly, I learned on one of my adventures that magnification is really important - if for nothing else than identifying the enemy at distance. Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to figure out who's shooting at you. I run a Vortex Razer HD 1-6x. Gives me the best of both worlds (1x for close quarters, magnification for distance targets). There are cheaper optics out there. Bushnell has a decent 1-6, but I personally don't care for the reticle. Any magnified optic is better than nothing in my opinion. The best ones let you zoom back down to 1x.
(5) Anytime you attempt to build something that's "good at everything" it ends up being good at nothing. Choose the right tool for the right job. If I want the capablity to shoot head shots at 300 (which is what I want), I know an AR15 is not going to give me first shot hits for that. Choose a different tool for that.
Good luck with your search.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 12:02:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2014 12:02:50 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]
training>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any rifle on the planet
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 10:06:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DarthMeanstreak:
In real combat, you'll be attempting to engage blobs of men laying in the prone and these targets are closer to 8-10" plates. I think most will find this a much harder target with 5.56 at 300yds.
(3) Most AR15s are 2-3 MOA guns - so if you're attempting to hit men in the prone at 300yds, you're already at the limits of the weapon's capabilities (nevermind your own skill). Most ARs have chrome lined barrels which gives plenty of barrel life, but sucks for accuracy. Add to this that most people shoot non-match factory ammo through them... it doesn't really set you up well for precision shots necessary to hit men in the prone at 300yds.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DarthMeanstreak:
In real combat, you'll be attempting to engage blobs of men laying in the prone and these targets are closer to 8-10" plates. I think most will find this a much harder target with 5.56 at 300yds.
(3) Most AR15s are 2-3 MOA guns - so if you're attempting to hit men in the prone at 300yds, you're already at the limits of the weapon's capabilities (nevermind your own skill). Most ARs have chrome lined barrels which gives plenty of barrel life, but sucks for accuracy. Add to this that most people shoot non-match factory ammo through them... it doesn't really set you up well for precision shots necessary to hit men in the prone at 300yds.

That's a marksmanship, ammo, or barrel problem, not a caliber problem (within reason ... 22lr won't get it done).


Originally Posted By DarthMeanstreak:
(5) Anytime you attempt to build something that's "good at everything" it ends up being good at nothing. Choose the right tool for the right job. If I want the capablity to shoot head shots at 300 (which is what I want), I know an AR15 is not going to give me first shot hits for that. Choose a different tool for that.

That different tool is going to have to be a quality barrel, decent ammo, probably a decent optic, and a competent marksman. Why can't it be an AR15? I don't see how the AR15 platform is the problem here.

I'd argue that it's the ideal platform. Accurate enough, semi-auto, good magazine capacity, low recoil for easy followup shots. What tool would you prefer?
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 2:35:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
training>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any rifle on the planet
View Quote
Yep, doesn't do any good to have a ton of firepower and not know how to get the most out of what you got.
That said, I would prefer AR-15 for mobile and close (<300 yards) and 7.62 x 51 for fixed and longer distances.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 1:47:20 PM EDT
When you look at a ballistics coefficient chart, most of the .224 bullets have higher BC's at higher velocities. The BC can be thought of as a reference for flight stability based on that bullet's profile and velocity. Therefore, the higher velocities achieved by the longer barrels MAY increase accuracy. I qualify that with "may" because the right powder-primer combo may help you achieve a decent velocity in a 16" bbl (not as much as the 20", but enough to maintain the higher BC for a longer distance)

You also need to consider that velocity in your terminal ballistics. Hollow points, soft points, frangibles, etc. They all have a velocity range that they perform best at. When you are hunting you need a hunting bullet. The military shoots FMJ for "humanitarian" reasons, not because it's the best for terminal ballistics.

The "mil-spec" accuracy for an M4 is 2 MOA. Keep in mind that 2 MOA at 300 yds is roughly 6 inches. I would also add that this is for "mil-spec" ammo (M193, M855) which is not nearly as accurate as handloaded hunting rounds. When you add that consistent bullet (either reloaded or quality factory), you are sub-MOA all day long.

As many others have stated, an AR15 can shoot sub-MOA at 600yds. You could not only get your "head shots" at 300yds, you could get "eye ball" shots.

I bring this all up because I was thinking about the guys that I know that hunt feral hogs. I have not been myself, but they say you need great shot placement to bring them down. They are mean and can take multiple rounds of .223. Just something else to think about.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 3:05:18 PM EDT
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top