Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 5/14/2008 10:30:18 AM EST
OK
I have a nice 45/70 guide gun for all of my close range hunting.
I have a .308 scout rifle for my mid range mid sized game
I have a 270 and 22's

I am lacking something for distance that has some good knock down power
yet is not going to dislocate my shoulder haha ;)

I am not a reloader not am I going to start so I need something I can
get ammo for (price isn't the biggest issue though)

Anyway.... What do you guys suggest?

Sure, there is .416 but that will blow away my shoulder haha.

I want distance and punch out of this.
I do not have a hunt for it yet but it could be anything from bear to
mountain hunting, elk or who knows where I may end up going.
Link Posted: 5/14/2008 12:05:06 PM EST
300 Win Mag seems to fit your bill most likely. You could go 7mm Magnum, though it's close enough to the 270 to not matter.
Link Posted: 5/14/2008 12:19:15 PM EST
Why 300 and not 338?
I really do not understand which
holds what advantage over the other.

I agree, no need or the 7 mm Mag.

Also before anyone suggests, I have no interest
in the WSM rounds.
Link Posted: 5/14/2008 12:47:20 PM EST
I've never done any bear hunting but a .30-06 with 180grain TXS's will put down an elk easy enough. Go with a .300 mag or some flavor if you want sometheing more than that. I got a .338 Ultra Mag several years ago with the same idea you have now. I put 40 rounds through it and now it just sits. Ammunition for it is close to $50 a box now so I dont see it being pulled out any time soon. YMMV
Link Posted: 5/14/2008 9:55:12 PM EST
338 WIN MAG... will take ANYTHING in north america. I have heard this from multiple very reliable sources.
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 2:44:00 AM EST
I have hunted everywhere with my .338 and love it but the difference between .338 and .300 isn't much both will do the same job equally well.

Between me and my main 2 hunting partners I have the .338 one guy has a .300 win mag and one has a .300 weatherby. We all hunt everything we can all over the U.S. and have never had a problem. It's more a matter of finding the gun you like and then see which calibers it comes in. I bought mine used which is the only reason I have a .338 over a .300.

Hope this helps a little.
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 7:24:42 AM EST
Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and go 375 H&H
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 12:56:52 PM EST
30'06 is not a bad choice, ammo is available everywhere in numberous bullet wieghts.
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 1:28:07 PM EST
Yeah just not interested in 30-06, I need
something which can go to the next level.

I spoke to the smith I use and feel is one
of the best in the country and it looks like we
may turn my 30-06 pre 64 model 70 into a
338 and throw a break on it.

Now to just decide if I wanna go RUM, Weatherby
or Win Mag
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 6:10:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Yeah just not interested in 30-06, I need
something which can go to the next level.

I spoke to the smith I use and feel is one
of the best in the country and it looks like we
may turn my 30-06 pre 64 model 70 into a
338 and throw a break on it.

Now to just decide if I wanna go RUM, Weatherby
or Win Mag


After spending one whole day in Montana last year looking for ammo for my buddy let me just say go with the win mag.

The standard stuff is almost always readily available not every one carries Weatherby ammo or the RUM stuff. Now I'm sure some will think don't be a dumb ass and bring enough with you but you can only bring so much on a plane and things fall out of trucks. Wouldn't you rather be out hunting then searching for the right ammo?

Just my .02 cents here but there's nothing these others do the win mag can't.
Link Posted: 5/15/2008 7:27:19 PM EST
The RUM has a little tiny bit more oomph, not really
enough to matter I know but if I am being a wuss and
putting a break on it I might as well have the big dog

;)

I will be getting a cuff so I can easily just unscrew the brake and
shoot it without the break.

I wonder how much if at all using the break on vs off will change
zero?

I was even thinking .375 H&H BUT from the specs I found
it did not person as well at 400 yrds as the .338
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 2:30:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Yeah just not interested in 30-06, I need
something which can go to the next level.

I spoke to the smith I use and feel is one
of the best in the country and it looks like we
may turn my 30-06 pre 64 model 70 into a
338 and throw a break on it.

Now to just decide if I wanna go RUM, Weatherby
or Win Mag


35 Wheelan is an option, as is 308 Norma mag. For the 308 Norma all you would need is a re-chamber.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 12:02:24 PM EST
Go with the .300 WIN MAG. I know you don't reload now, but it might be an option. The .300 is better for load diversity. As for the shoulder hurting, I can tell you that the .300 or the .338 has a far more "sharp" recoil than that 45-70 of yours.( I have both 45-70 and .300WIN MAG). The .300 is also more of a gas station load. (you can find it in gas stations in the U.P.!) Where are you in Michigan? I could let you shoot my .300 if your close.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 11:56:53 PM EST
I would go with a 338 win. Very versatile round with excellent ballistics.

Stick with the win over the RUM or weatherby. Save lots of money and recoil

375 is also a great round but almost too big for some of the smaller critters unless you handload some lighter stuff
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 7:42:21 AM EST
If you don't reload, and have no intention to, stick with the 338 Win Mag, the cost of 338UM and 340 Roy factory loads is enough that you'll never want to shoot the thing. I'd also advise againt the muzzle brake. The damn thing will blow your ear drums out, maybe see if your 'smith could thread the barrel so you can remove it for hunting situations.
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 8:09:23 AM EST
RUM is 9 dollars more a box...
Thats nothing.
Why not hunt with a brake???
I wear custom digital ear molds/plugs when I hunt.
They cancel out the boom.

The Brake will be threaded regardless but I do not
understand why some people are so against a brake???
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 9:18:59 AM EST
If you want a new gun then get one but looking at what you have I have to ask, "Why?" I have a 45-70 Guide gun and it'll take ANYTHING that walks out to 200 yards with iron sites. Your .308 is a fine cartridge and is capable of killing at 500 yards. I have a Model 70 in .270 and I have taken a nice bull elk at 535 yards with one shot. So can you if you put the right bullet in the right spot. What more do you want? How far away are you planning on shooting something?
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 1:10:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By JYogi:

The Brake will be threaded regardless but I do not
understand why some people are so against a brake???


Because it is significantly louder and if hunting in a group you have to be extra careful on your muzzle position so you dont blow their ears out.

I knew quite a few guides that strongly suggested no brakes and a few that wouldnt allow it at all.

If you hunt by yourself and wear ear protection you are good to go either way
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 3:47:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2008 3:48:39 PM EST by radioshooter]
The Remington UltraMag and the Weatherby rounds might be too long for a standard length 30:06 action. Especially the 338 bore cartridges. The 300 and 338 Winchester rounds will go in for sure. If you are brown bear and moose hunting, go with the 338's.

RS
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 3:51:37 PM EST
I have never been one to hunt in a group so thats not an issue.
I will have it threaded with a collar so I can take it off through.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

I think this is gonna be a fun rifle when I get it all done.

Next will be the quest for some good glass to go on top of
it and after that I am going to have Jim Brockman build me
a practical rifle.
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 4:17:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By JYogi:
RUM is 9 dollars more a box...
Thats nothing.
Why not hunt with a brake???
I wear custom digital ear molds/plugs when I hunt.
They cancel out the boom.

The Brake will be threaded regardless but I do not
understand why some people are so against a brake???


Good luck finding 338 UM, Cabela's barely has anything. Didn't check Midway, which I am sure they do. You'll find in most cases there is more than 9 bucks difference. The 340 Roy ammo is about 75 a box.

Brakes are for cars, not guns.
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 5:13:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2008 5:13:40 PM EST by JYogi]
Sportsmansguide.com has plenty of options....


Anyway, its really going to come down to what the smith
thinks now...

Thanks everyone for your help!
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 8:58:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By freeride21a:
338 WIN MAG... will take ANYTHING in north america. I have heard this from multiple very reliable sources.


300 win mag will take any animal in north america. This I have seen. Not by me, but someone that was once close to me.

He has killed AZ pronghorn,elk, deer, mountain kitty,bear ( black and brown ) caribou, moose, and mountain goat. All with one old 300 win mag rifle and a redfield scope.

THis was a man that I respected and the main reason for me choosing that rifle for most of my hunting. I have also seen him download and shoot smaller stuff with it. I shoot factory balistic silver tips in mine and love them. Since I now hunt mostly western Oregon, the 300 is a bit big and I switched to an AR/223 or my AK. and they point well for the brush that I hunt in.


BIGFOOT
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:32:13 AM EST
Caliber means far less than it use to. We are able to manipulate performance so much more with bullets, powders, case design, platform...etc. I'd recommend a heavy twist 300 WM and then start considering the big boy rigs (50 bmgs)....anything less really doesn't change your ability at all.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 7:08:45 AM EST
For the stated mission—long range hitting power, and if you are choosing between the 300 Win Mag and the 338 Win Mag, I would go with the 300 Win Mag. In mine, I use the Fed. Premium load with the 180 grain Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet. Zeroed at 200 yards, it delivers 2,233 fpe at 300 yards and drops only 6.8 inches below the lines of sight at 300 yards (enough to kill anything you're shooting at in N.A.). By comparison (apples to apples), the 338 Fed. Premium load with the 225 grain Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet delivers 2,270 fpe at 300 yards and drops 8.3 inches below the lines of sight at 300 yards. Thus, at long range, IMO, the 338 looses its advantage over the 300. If you’re in to really long distances, at 500 yds, the 300 WM hits with 1,612 fpe and drops 40.4 inches while the 338 hits with 1,519 fpe and drops 49.5 inches. Even most 375 H&H loads don’t produce much more energy than the 300 Win Mag at 300 meters, thoguh some get up to about 2,700 fpe.
Link Posted: 7/29/2008 4:38:19 AM EST
JYogi I was discussing the idea of which cartridge to re-barrel and chamber an old 1903 action I have when the topic of a muzzle brake came up and it was the gunsmith's opinion that I have the barrel Magnaported because With a muzzle brake I'll be forever trying to adjust it and the adjustment changes as the harmonics of the barrel changes and they change for different bullet weights or charge variations whereas Magnaporting does not affect the barrel harmonics at all. I also owned a 8MM Rem. Mag. though quite a few years ago which I had Magnaported and it was quite accurate with a variety of bullets from 125gr. nozzlers to the 185gr Rem. Factory ammo. As for caliber of the gun you are are concidering, I also thought of the short mag. cartridge but I listened to the gunsmiths oppinion that in 10 years the short mag. cartridge may not be in production but the .300 Win. Mag. is readily available anywhere and allways will be, so that's what cartridge I decided on, the .300 Win. Mag. Plus I also have a stock of brass to load with. Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 8/4/2008 9:24:33 AM EST
.300 Win Mag. gets my vote, you can usually find it in most places.
Link Posted: 8/6/2008 10:00:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2008 10:00:51 AM EST by machaira]
Just to throw my .02 in:

-The only real world difference you will experience between the .300 and the .338 Win Mags are the slight edge the .338 will give you on the heaviest bullet. It will shove out a heavier round, but not by much. So it boils down to which you feel the most comfortable with for your intended purpose.

I have both - no perceptible recoil difference, for me at least, across the board. If I was going into Grizzley country, either would do but a good skull busting .338 with a 250 grain Barnes or Nosler Partition would give me a warm feeling inside.

That is where the .338 will shine - with the heavier pills. And its versatile enough to load with 180's or 200's etc. If you are having a custom job done, pick a rifling twist that will allow the greatest range of bullet weights. Too slow and you'll limit yourself to lighter bullets.

And I would forget the brake - this is not a shoot all saturday afternoon rifle - Better to spend the $ on a proper fitted and shaped stock.
Link Posted: 9/11/2008 9:28:16 AM EST
I have a .300 win mag Model 70 super grade with a boss unit on the muzzle.

It's a super accurate rifle. Fed 180 classics into 1/2 inch out of the box. I bought it for a Elk hunt that didn't come off. In reading on rifles, the .338 Win mag does it just a bit better when it comes to dangerous bears.

Just as mentioned above, the premium bonded bullets probably narrow the difference down.

I probably should work up an accubond bullet for the gun.

So pick one, and the only thing the .300 can do over the .45 70 is to kill at longer ranges without drastic sight changes. The .45-70 is a freaking sledge hammer of a round in practice.
Link Posted: 9/19/2008 9:33:48 AM EST
Seems like several of the Eastman's hunting guys use a .30-378 in a Weatherby MkV with a brake. They've also written comments that are favorable towards the .300 RUM. Remington came out with their "Power Level" ammo for the .300 RUM. 30-06, 300 WM, and 300 RUM power levels all supposed to hit within 2" of point of aim out to 200 yards I think.
Link Posted: 9/20/2008 4:36:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By sw41mag:
If you want a new gun then get one but looking at what you have I have to ask, "Why?" I have a 45-70 Guide gun and it'll take ANYTHING that walks out to 200 yards with iron sites. Your .308 is a fine cartridge and is capable of killing at 500 yards. I have a Model 70 in .270 and I have taken a nice bull elk at 535 yards with one shot. So can you if you put the right bullet in the right spot. What more do you want? How far away are you planning on shooting something?


Exactly. A full hunting battery is 12ga, .22LR, .223, 30-06, .375H&H. If travelling the world avoid military calibers so 12ga, .22LR, .222, .270, .375. What these can't kill can't be killed and they're all comfortable to shoot from medium-weight hunting rifles.
Link Posted: 9/21/2008 4:09:02 AM EST
I had the same thought just prior to going in the military, What should I buy for use wherever they send me??? Alaska, Montana, and Idaho were on my list. I spent a year researching before I bought. Previously, at age 15 I purchased a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag and had hunted with it and had practical experience.

Thinking globally and wanting a "One gun fits all scenario" (18 at the time - In retrospect, not feasible), I determined .338 would fill the bill.

I chose the .340 Weatherby.

From the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, Vol. II, June 1973:

340 Weatherby, 225 grain, 3000 FPS, at muzzle = 4498 ft. lbs.
340 Weatherby, 225 grain, 3000 FPS, at 200 yd = 3320 ft. lbs.

for comparison

30-06, 220 grain, 2600 Fps, at muzzle = 3303 ft. lbs
30-06, 220 grain, 2600 Fps, at 200 yd = 2077 ft. lbs

300 Win Mag 220 grain, 2800 Fps at muzzle = 3831 ft. lbs
300 Win Mag 220 grain, 2800 Fps at 200 yd = 2436 ft. lbs

So I sold my Rem 700 in 300 Win mag and purchased a Mk V 340 Weatherby for $407.00 and still have it. It was a good choice
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 12:24:50 PM EST
.375 will do everything---and if you get off your lazy ass and reload you can download it to deer sized game
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 7:01:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Monkey-man:

Originally Posted By sw41mag:
If you want a new gun then get one but looking at what you have I have to ask, "Why?" I have a 45-70 Guide gun and it'll take ANYTHING that walks out to 200 yards with iron sites. Your .308 is a fine cartridge and is capable of killing at 500 yards. I have a Model 70 in .270 and I have taken a nice bull elk at 535 yards with one shot. So can you if you put the right bullet in the right spot. What more do you want? How far away are you planning on shooting something?


Exactly. A full hunting battery is 12ga, .22LR, .223, 30-06, .375H&H. If travelling the world avoid military calibers so 12ga, .22LR, .222, .270, .375. What these can't kill can't be killed and they're all comfortable to shoot from medium-weight hunting rifles.


I'd never pick a 222 over a 223 for ammo availability, even worldwide. I'd probably take a 22-250, as I could imagine finding that would be pretty easy, however, if I was hunting outside the Lower 48 I probably wouldn't want one anyway. I also think it's funny that you wouldn't include the 30-06 for hunting worldwide. The 30-06 is easily one of the most popular hunting calibers across the globe and I can't think of too many places that still use it as the premier martial round. If you want to sub something in for the 30-06, I'd say 7x57 or 6.5x55 would be a good place to start.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 5:39:05 AM EST
I use a .300 Rum. Its a Rem 700 with KDF brake. A lot of people talk about ammo availability. Its a non argument. Why would you go on a hunt without a surplus of ammo?
Larry at Superior ammunition makes my loads. 168 Barnes triple shock X bullets.
I sight in 3 inches high at 100 and it is good to go with no holdover to 300. I love the rifle and ammo. It has taken a lot of game.
If you decide on a rifle you really should talk to Larry about getting ammo from him. You pick the cal. and bullet you want to use and he will send you a sample pack of 5 different loads with that bullt. you shoot for groups and the sample that shoots best is your load.
My gun is a one holer.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:44:59 AM EST
I have both a 300 and 338 win mag. and my 300 rarely gets used. I have used my 338 mainly for elk hunting but it has taken a good number of deer as well and one coyote (not recommended for hide collectors) For bigger game I will use nothing else. When hunting I shoot Federal Premium Safari 250 grain nosler partitions. I bought 5 boxes of these at a yard sale years ago for $100 total. Maybe that is why I still hunt with it.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:17:31 PM EST
I have been looking at the .340 Weatherby quite a bit...
I think that may be the best all around long distance
option for me... With a brush 45/70 a .308 scout and
the .340 I think that will cover everything I need for
mid to large game.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:42:44 AM EST
If you are not worried about recoil then the 340wbymag is great. It really kicks very hard. much harder than my 300 rum.
Jim
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:01:13 AM EST
Recoil is a fact of life.
I do not plan on shooting tons of rounds through it anyway...
Sight it in, before hunting confirm zero and then hunting....

It's never really bothered me much with my 45/70 so
I am sure I can manage the .340
Link Posted: 11/28/2008 1:58:30 AM EST
My vote is for the .338 but I reload and I consider cartridge efficiency. Less bottleneck = more efficiency.
Top Top