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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/15/2012 4:27:13 PM EST
I used a full 20 lb propane tank to refill 15-1lb canisters. All but two of them averaged 13.5-16 oz.

One canister only took about 12 oz around number 8 or 9.

The 14th canister took 14.7 oz, but the 15th only took 10 oz. This is when I figured that it was pretty much crapped out. I figure I have about 2-3 lbs left in the tank.

Now I am doing the unsafe thing and finishing off the tank warming my upstairs.

I was very surprised that I could get that many canisters from one tank. I will say that the total time the canister is refilling has an effect on the total fill weight. I start with 2 minutes on a fresh tank. The last two canisters needed 3 minutes to fill completely.

I didn't know if anyone had tried to see how many you could fill so I figured I would post it.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 5:47:09 PM EST
Since we're already being unsafe.....

What if you were to hypothetically put the theoretical supply tank in a warm water bath and the 1 lb tank into a cool water bath while filling?

Just for the sake of discussion, that is.....


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:02:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 6:02:20 PM EST by EXPY37]
B-M, as we've discussed before, as long as there is the smallest amount of liquid in your 20# tank, how much left in it vs filling a 1# tank is largely irrelevant.

It all boils down to temperature differences between the 2 tanks and if you are going to do this and use it around your fambly, it behooves you to do some reading on this subject so you understand watcha you're doing.




Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:16:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
B-M, as we've discussed before, as long as there is the smallest amount of liquid in your 20# tank, how much left in it vs filling a 1# tank is largely irrelevant.

It all boils down to temperature differences between the 2 tanks and if you are going to do this and use it around your fambly, it behooves you to do some reading on this subject so you understand watcha you're doing.






BAH, safety is for suckers.



use a torch to heat up your 20# while packing your 1# in dry ice.


is safe, I heard of a cousin doing it back in Kentucky.





God rest his soul.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:53:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 6:57:22 PM EST by lasnyder]
if you are filling during other than a power outage, and have the ability to place the 1# cylinders in the freezer for a day or two, it helps tremendously....I invert the bulk tank
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:21:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
B-M, as we've discussed before, as long as there is the smallest amount of liquid in your 20# tank, how much left in it vs filling a 1# tank is largely irrelevant.

It all boils down to temperature differences between the 2 tanks and if you are going to do this and use it around your fambly, it behooves you to do some reading on this subject so you understand watcha you're doing.






I've filled canisters many times before. I freeze the canisters with the tank at room temperature. Works like a charm. There must be some change in the situation inside the tank because it can no longer push enough propane to fill the canisters at 15.

I'm going to use up the last remaining propane in the tank no matter what. I'm not wasting it and we are not exactly grilling a lot now.

I am curious how many canisters most people get and how full they are.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:40:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I used a full 20 lb propane tank to refill 15-1lb canisters. All but two of them averaged 13.5-16 oz.

One canister only took about 12 oz around number 8 or 9.

The 14th canister took 14.7 oz, but the 15th only took 10 oz. This is when I figured that it was pretty much crapped out. I figure I have about 2-3 lbs left in the tank.

Now I am doing the unsafe thing and finishing off the tank warming my upstairs.

I was very surprised that I could get that many canisters from one tank. I will say that the total time the canister is refilling has an effect on the total fill weight. I start with 2 minutes on a fresh tank. The last two canisters needed 3 minutes to fill completely.

I didn't know if anyone had tried to see how many you could fill so I figured I would post it.


Do you invert the #20 tank during the filling process? I thought I read that somewhere. I never tried draining a tank and just filled a 1 pounder when I needed one to verify the process. I don't use too many one pound tanks.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:58:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By EllisWyatt:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I used a full 20 lb propane tank to refill 15-1lb canisters. All but two of them averaged 13.5-16 oz.

One canister only took about 12 oz around number 8 or 9.

The 14th canister took 14.7 oz, but the 15th only took 10 oz. This is when I figured that it was pretty much crapped out. I figure I have about 2-3 lbs left in the tank.

Now I am doing the unsafe thing and finishing off the tank warming my upstairs.

I was very surprised that I could get that many canisters from one tank. I will say that the total time the canister is refilling has an effect on the total fill weight. I start with 2 minutes on a fresh tank. The last two canisters needed 3 minutes to fill completely.

I didn't know if anyone had tried to see how many you could fill so I figured I would post it.


Do you invert the #20 tank during the filling process? I thought I read that somewhere. I never tried draining a tank and just filled a 1 pounder when I needed one to verify the process. I don't use too many one pound tanks.



You actually have to invert the tank to fill it with liquid propane. When people say they have a wet leg in their bulk tank it is a tube that reaches into the liquid propane. 20 lb tanks don't have that.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 2:05:22 AM EST
What are you using the 1lb bottles for? Seems like you would be better off just using the 20lb as you would have less waste.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:11:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 3:12:36 AM EST by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By AZjeepguy:
What are you using the 1lb bottles for? Seems like you would be better off just using the 20lb as you would have less waste.


If the full 20 lb tank vented inside your house the results could be catastrophic. I am making a major safety compromise by using up the last couple pounds in the house. If it vented it would only release the same as two - three 1lb canisters. A full tank venting could level a house and those next to them if it ignites at the right fuel/air ratio.

I only run the nearly empty big tank when I am awake and I put the tank outside when I sleep. I do it knowing that it could still vent, even without much LP in the tank.

People who take full propane tanks into their homes do so at their own risk.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:55:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 3:57:56 AM EST by AR-10]
Where do you store the one pound bottles?
How many times can you refill one?
Do you get a leaker from time to time?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:03:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR-10:
Where do you store the one pound bottles?
How many times can you refill one?
Do you get a leaker from time to time?


I store them in the garage. I don't know if there is a limit on refill. Many of mine are probably on their 10th time or more.

I get a leaker in almost every batch where it is hissing. I just bump the valve with a pointy object and they seem to seal right up. I check all of them with soapy water for slow leaks.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:17:36 AM EST
What would cause a 20lb tank to vent?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:24:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By AR-10:
Where do you store the one pound bottles?
How many times can you refill one?
Do you get a leaker from time to time?


I store them in the garage. I don't know if there is a limit on refill. Many of mine are probably on their 10th time or more.

I get a leaker in almost every batch where it is hissing. I just bump the valve with a pointy object and they seem to seal right up. I check all of them with soapy water for slow leaks.


Care to describe your refilling technique in detail?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:18:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:32:43 AM EST by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:
What would cause a 20lb tank to vent?



They contain very high pressure. There are others here who can tell you more about it than I can. The pressure varies with temperature, but it's around 150 psi.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:26:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By AR-10:
Where do you store the one pound bottles?
How many times can you refill one?
Do you get a leaker from time to time?


I store them in the garage. I don't know if there is a limit on refill. Many of mine are probably on their 10th time or more.

I get a leaker in almost every batch where it is hissing. I just bump the valve with a pointy object and they seem to seal right up. I check all of them with soapy water for slow leaks.


Care to describe your refilling technique in detail?


I have a table on the back deck that I invert the tank on. I put the tank inside the basement for a few hours to warm it up to room temperature and throw the canisters in the freezer. The tank is still cool to the touch but not freezing either.

Once the canisters are nice and cold I screw them on the adapter and open the tank valve while the tank is still inverted. Then I wait between 2 and 3 minutes. I turn off the tank and unscrew the canister. Then I listen for leaks. If none are present I dump a little pre prepared soapy water into the top and look for bubbles. I shake out the mixture and let them dry before putting them away.

I try to save the little white thread protector caps so I can reuse them as well. I have 15 canisters ready to go and no propane smell around them at all.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:43:00 AM EST
I spray the Schrader valve with a little silicone the first time I refill... and refill using the technique that Batman explained... living in Florida, typically don't have to warm up the bulk cylinder.. a couple of days of cold soaking in the freezer with the 1# bottles if possible... if I get a slight leak, I just screw that bottle into the appliance...you can hear the liquid/gas filling the 1# bottle... be sure to close off the bulk tank first, and there will be a rush of gas to your hand when you unscrew the bottle... you may want to wear a nitrile glove to keep the perfumed propane smell from lingering on your hand
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:28:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 10:29:10 AM EST by Country_Boy]
The reason the almost empty 20 lb tank may not be refilling 1lb tanks is that as you removed one gallon of propane, you boiled off one gallon of vapor chilling the remaining propane. when the take is almost empty, this has a fairly noticable affect. Low temperature = low pressure. Did you see the tank sweating?

CB

I transfill 2200 psi tanks of MIG gas :-). My local welding supply wouldn't even sell me the parts in a single transaction.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:17:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:
What would cause a 20lb tank to vent?



They contain very high pressure. There are others here who can tell you more about it than I can. The pressure varies with temperature, but it's around 150 psi.



Not saying it doesn't happen. But in normal, safe usage, has anyone seen one spontaneously vent for no reason at all?

I do'nt usually mess around with the 1lb containers. I have a few 20's I refill with the aformentioned "wet line". My last fill up was $1.30/gal.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:43:29 AM EST
I don't consider 150 psi very high pressure...




Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:17:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Country_Boy:
The reason the almost empty 20 lb tank may not be refilling 1lb tanks is that as you removed one gallon of propane, you boiled off one gallon of vapor chilling the remaining propane. when the take is almost empty, this has a fairly noticable affect. Low temperature = low pressure. Did you see the tank sweating?

CB

I transfill 2200 psi tanks of MIG gas :-). My local welding supply wouldn't even sell me the parts in a single transaction.


I did the first 13 in one day. The last two were later.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:18:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
I don't consider 150 psi very high pressure...






High enough to ruin your day.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:30:39 PM EST
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:34:20 PM EST
good info!
I have the refilling adapter but have yet to refill any. I have been saving up 1# bottles to do some refills.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:07:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?


Enough to feel the difference in the palm of your hand. They also fill quicker
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:12:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 8:32:59 PM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.

A propane cylinder with a given amount of propane inside will weight the SAME IRRESPECTIVE OF TEMPERATURE.

Only the PRESSURE inside the tank will vary, based on the vapor pressure properties of propane.

Take a look at the bottom chart, it's in PSI that we all can relate to. [Don't look at the fisrt two, they are in some sort of mumbo-jumbo Eurapeein units -bars Newtons, figs, I dunnano]

You can see that as temperature of the propane in, say a tank, increases, that the pressure of the propane that volatilizes, increases until the liquid's -vapor pressure- and the pressure of the propane GAS, reach an equilibrium.

For that given temp.

Since most of the time [it better be ALL the time] your tank isn't COMPLETELY full of liquid, propane vapor fills up the 'empty' space and its pressure is a known value -based on temp.

That's why refrigeration service folks depend on freon pressure-temperature charts to determine the super-heat of a system. And lotsa other stuff too.





Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:42:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.



I don't that's what was being asked, but cool charts.

I think it was more about what difference does a cold 1lb canister make in terms how much it can be filled compared to a warmer one.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:12:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 6:12:48 AM EST by ColtRifle]
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 7:37:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 7:37:56 AM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Here's an informative link about propane



Love it!

Nancyguys ––-do not click!



Link Posted: 11/17/2012 7:39:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.



I don't that's what was being asked, but cool charts.

I think it was more about what difference does a cold 1lb canister make in terms how much it can be filled compared to a warmer one.




Are we both speaking the same Engrish?



Link Posted: 11/17/2012 11:36:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.



I don't that's what was being asked, but cool charts.

I think it was more about what difference does a cold 1lb canister make in terms how much it can be filled compared to a warmer one.




Are we both speaking the same Engrish?





Lol. What I was trying to ask was how much more will a 1 lb capacity can weigh when filled cold vs room temp. I understand vapor pressure, pv-nrt, etc., but didn't think it would really make a significant difference in the amount of propane they could take. Maybe it's being done to increase filling speed, I don't know. Seems like a bit of bother for a few ounces more per can.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 12:32:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.



I don't that's what was being asked, but cool charts.

I think it was more about what difference does a cold 1lb canister make in terms how much it can be filled compared to a warmer one.




Are we both speaking the same Engrish?





Oops, forgot a word. That's what I get for posting after a late night... but still, I gave the fellow some credit and didn't assume he asked a dumb question.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 12:46:02 PM EST
So what keeps the line from my 250 gallon tank from venting into my house.

Or for that matter, the 3/4" natural gas line?
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 12:59:43 PM EST
the Quality devices connected to your tank.

Link Posted: 11/17/2012 1:52:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By joemama74:
So what keeps the line from my 250 gallon tank from venting into my house.


Good question. As far as I know, nothing at all. Probably a good reason to install a propane alarm!

I met a guy who had been in a basement propane explosion. Oddly enough it was when I was investigating a propane smell in the neighborhood.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:47:33 PM EST
I have a question, Why not just buy the hose adapter to run your appliance that would normally run from the 1lb can to run on bulk?

I have a zoti shower at the BOL and I use it on a bulk tank instead of small ones.. I get more heat, faster and I dont have to run refills..

I also did this with a little buddy heater.. same results..
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:33:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
I have a question, Why not just buy the hose adapter to run your appliance that would normally run from the 1lb can to run on bulk?

I have a zoti shower at the BOL and I use it on a bulk tank instead of small ones.. I get more heat, faster and I dont have to run refills..

I also did this with a little buddy heater.. same results..


A 20 lb propane tank can vent if the pressure inside is too great. The pressure rises with the temperature. This means a tank can vent inside a building with you in it. Add an ignition source and you will win a Darwin award.

A 1 lb canister has a lot less chance of causing an explosion.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:27:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By kaos:
Since we're already being unsafe.....

What if you were to hypothetically put the theoretical supply tank in a warm water bath and the 1 lb tank into a cool water bath while filling?

Just for the sake of discussion, that is.....

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21351


Thats how we fill nitrous tanks. except we just chill the bottles to be filled in a chest freezer and leave the mother bottle ambient
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:57:48 AM EST
I may be wrong, but since the tanks are filled with that same concept, arent you over thinking the safety? I mean the tanks here in the South are not as full as the ones up north since we are warmer and they are filled to a pressure not a volume..

The low and high pressure regulators take care of that right?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:25:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
I may be wrong, but since the tanks are filled with that same concept, arent you over thinking the safety? I mean the tanks here in the South are not as full as the ones up north since we are warmer and they are filled to a pressure not a volume..

The low and high pressure regulators take care of that right?


I am already compromising by taking nearly empty tanks in the house. There is no way I am bringing something in the house that could blow my house into kindling. The volume of gas released if the tank vents is huge with a full tank.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 9:29:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 9:29:43 AM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
I may be wrong, but since the tanks are filled with that same concept, arent you over thinking the safety? I mean the tanks here in the South are not as full as the ones up north since we are warmer and they are filled to a pressure not a volume..

The low and high pressure regulators take care of that right?



Filled to a PRESSURE????

Are we talking abt propane and butane?

If so you might want to explain a little bit more because this sure doesn't sound right.


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:35:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
What is the difference between the filled weight of a cold vs room temp 1 lb canister? Is it really a significant difference?



That's sorta like asking which weighs more ––-a pound of feathers or a pound of ammo.



I don't that's what was being asked, but cool charts.

I think it was more about what difference does a cold 1lb canister make in terms how much it can be filled compared to a warmer one.




Are we both speaking the same Engrish?





Lol. What I was trying to ask was how much more will a 1 lb capacity can weigh when filled cold vs room temp. I understand vapor pressure, pv-nrt, etc., but didn't think it would really make a significant difference in the amount of propane they could take. Maybe it's being done to increase filling speed, I don't know. Seems like a bit of bother for a few ounces more per can.


Freezing the 1lb bottles before filling WILL allow them to hold more that you would imagine. This is where some people screw up and overfill their bottles. Overfilling can cause problems if the temp of the bottle gets too high after filling...

Example: My nitrous bottle is a 10lb bottle. It is only 'supposed' to hold 10 lbs of liquid... I regularly get 11 lbs of liquid in it by freezing the empty bottle (valve open) before taking it to be refilled... The bottle is marked with how much it weighs empty (+ weighed before filling to verify) and then weighed again after filling. 11 lbs inside for sure... Because the bottle is built a LOT stronger than these crap propane bottles the guys at the refill station do not mind doing this. They would never suggest overfilling a bottle as crappy as the 1lb propane bottles... When my bottle is still cool and holding 11lbs of nitrous it usually reads between 1200 and 1300 PSI. If it gets too warm it can easily get up to 1500+ PSI. Leave it overfilled and in the direct sunlight on a hot day and it WILL blow the burst valve and make a mess.

You CAN warm an almost empty bottle up to make sure you get all you can out of it. They make special bottle blankets (bottle heaters) for just this reason.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:31:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
I may be wrong, but since the tanks are filled with that same concept, arent you over thinking the safety? I mean the tanks here in the South are not as full as the ones up north since we are warmer and they are filled to a pressure not a volume..

The low and high pressure regulators take care of that right?



Filled to a PRESSURE????

Are we talking abt propane and butane?

If so you might want to explain a little bit more because this sure doesn't sound right.




I was wrong, I was always told that the trucks that deliver the tanks along with weighing them, tested pressures upon filling, but I guess what he was telling was the hydro testing not every single refill..

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:46:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 8:46:33 PM EST by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By themcfarland:
I may be wrong, but since the tanks are filled with that same concept, arent you over thinking the safety? I mean the tanks here in the South are not as full as the ones up north since we are warmer and they are filled to a pressure not a volume..

The low and high pressure regulators take care of that right?



Filled to a PRESSURE????

Are we talking abt propane and butane?

If so you might want to explain a little bit more because this sure doesn't sound right.




I was wrong, I was always told that the trucks that deliver the tanks along with weighing them, tested pressures upon filling, but I guess what he was telling was the hydro testing not every single refill..




We all get to be once in a while...

I'm not sure, but keeping track of the pressure while filling sounds like a logical safety procedure. They're using a pump to transfer the propane and I suppose it takes considerable pressure above the vapor pressure to transfer at the rate they do.




Link Posted: 11/23/2012 7:07:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2012 7:07:52 PM EST by strat81]
Are these the 1lb canisters you are refilling?



If so, what is a good place to source them?

Also, where do you get the hose to accomplish the transfer?
Link Posted: 11/24/2012 1:52:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2012 3:11:10 AM EST by showpare]
Keep an eye out in late August at CVS drug stores for end of year clearance. They are about a dollar each with a pound of propane.

Propane fill thingy from HF




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